Orlando Cabrera?
Yesterday on Richard Griffin's 'Blue Jays Mail Bag' Blog there was a question and answer that caught my eye:
Q: Lots of speculation about the Jays needing and looking to accumulate a "big bat" lately. I think that maybe a different direction might help them score more runs, i.e. a whippet on the basepaths, someone like Reyes of the Mets. The Jays have been without a bona fide base stealer of the highest order for far too long now. Any potential free agents or trades in the off-season possible?
Ken Moore, Niagara Falls
A: There are very few whippets available out there, but there are other solutions. For one, I would consider going after free agent shortstop Orlando Cabrera after he leaves the White Sox at the end of this year. He is a slick fielder, steals bags and has been in the playoffs four times in the past five years with three different franchises. He established himself with the Expos so he is comfortable playing in Canada. No, he’s not the classic type leadoff man, but neither was Devo. His last contract was $32 million for four years. That’s about what you could sign him for next time around. He’s a Cito-type player.
And then today on Jeff Blair's Globe on Baseball Blog he says (I believe, it is hard to figure out what his point is) that we should sign Cabrera because, well, because he's a lousy person and we need some of those on the team.
Now I can't understand why two journalists would each come up with the idea that Cabrera would be a solution to the Jays troubles is beyond me. Blair's reasoning, well I understand it in a hockey or football sense. A lot of hockey teams have a player that the other teams hate. In physical sports like those it can take a team's mind off winning. Players get more intent on hurting that player. Does that matter in baseball? Not sure, Orlando did mouth off at Balfour yesterday and then struck out. Didn't seem to help his team.
Griffin's reasons? 'He's a slick fielder' well yeah sure ok. 'Steals bags'.....ok....well he stole 19 this season, caught 6 times, net gain of almost 2 runs. Season before it was 20 steals and 4 caught.
Here is the big one....I'll put it in quotes....
and has been in the playoffs four times in the past five years with three different franchises.
There it is. He's a winner. Can't argue with that. And he did so much to help the teams win that they sent him off to a different team each time. Four teams in the last five seasons. Don't you love that, call a guy a winner and it can't be argued with. Could it be that he's been lucky? Course could also say that he can't get along even with his own teammates and he wears out his welcome in a hurry.
He established himself with the Expos so he is comfortable playing in Canada.
There we go....he was signed as an amateur free agent by the Expos and he didn't run back to Colombia when the Expos called him up to Montreal. That's a positive? I mean, I've never been to Colombia but if my choice was play baseball for $170,000 in Montreal, with the understanding that if I keep doing it that salary will go up each season, or I could go to Colombia and ummmmmm harvest sugar cane? Hey, I could put up with signs in French for that.
No, he’s not the classic type leadoff man, but neither was Devo.
No, no he isn't the classic leadoff man.....classic lead off men, you know, GET ON BASE! Shall we compare him to everyone's favorite lead off man Marco Scutaro...last season:
Cabrera .281/.334/.371 OPS+84
Scoot .267/.341/.356 OPS+86
Career:
Cabrera .274/.322./.399 OPS+86
Scoot .261/.325/.377 OPS+86
Now I am the last guy to stick up for Scoot but do you see a difference? Yeah, Orlando stole 12 more bases last year, that should make him worth about.....
His last contract was $32 million for four years. That’s about what you could sign him for next time around.
Oh good, for only 8 mill a season we could have someone that we couldn't tell apart from Marco Scutaro. Add in that Orlando is now 33 and a four year contract would lock him up till he's 38 and he's marginal now.....$32 mill seems like a bargain. Now, this is a selling point in Mr. Griffin's mind. And this guy calls for JP's head every other day?
He’s a Cito-type player.
Ok, once again you can't argue it because, well, what the frig does it mean? 'He's a Cito-type player'? Are we saying Cito is stupid? Well, there are moments when he's leaving a pitcher out there long after he has lost it that I wonder, but no we can't be saying that. I think what he is saying is that Cito likes Scoot (if, you know, there aren't any obviously better choices to play in the middle infield) so therefore he would like another Scoot at roughly three times the cost. How many guys with almost league average on base percentages can we bat at the top of the order?
I would guess that a 'Cito-type' player would be a rather large slugger. Someone that could drive in 100+ runs a year. That, to me, would be a Cito-type player. Course it would also be a Rincewind-type player too. I hate to ask this question yet again but do these guys really get paid to write this stuff??
Comments
I hope we don't sign OC
but it’s hard to deny he’d likely be better than anyone we have at the moment. Not better enough to give him a big contract, but he provides offense comparable to scutaro and better defense. J-Mac was a disaster this season, he OPSed .524 and his defense was down, so Scoot is the best option we have (assuming the Hill thing doesn’t work out). and that’s a little scary – Scutaro was suprisingly decent with the glove this season, but I’m not sure we can count on that to continue, and his hitting is certainly nothing special.
I like Furcal, actually, he’s a much better hitter than Cabrera (with a career OPS+ 10 points higher), is more of a natural top-of-the-order hitter (gets on base more and steals more, though we might not expect too many steals given his recent back surgery), and he is as good or better on defense (at least, according to stats I’ve seen, but fielding stats are all over the place) And perhaps he would sign a short-term deal hoping to improve his value for next season, since he has to prove himself healthy. The cost will likely be prohibitive, but you never know.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Oct 3, 2008 7:13 PM EDT
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i say we first experiment with hill/inglett
see where that takes us… if it fails, then look to fill the spot for 2010. I personally believe that Inglett has earned a shot to become an opening day starter
by hopelessjaysfan on
Oct 3, 2008 9:57 PM EDT
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I'm a big Inglett fan myself
his production this season (.779 OPS and above-average defense at 2nd) is definitely good enough to be a starting second baseman. But the Jays don’t trust him at all at SS, and it looks like, once again, Hill won’t be moved either. I don’t really agree with that – I like the idea of at least trying Hill at SS, with Scoot backing him up, and Inglett as the starting second baseman – even if this season turns out to be a flash in the pan, Scott Campbell had a really solid year at AA, particularly in the on-base department, and at 24, he makes a good backup option if Inglett doesn’t work out
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Oct 4, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
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by the way
I don’t mean to suggest that the Jays don’t get anyone to play SS, just that I like the idea of trying Hill if no one else is brought in. I do think that if the Jays trade for J.J. Hardy, Hill can slide back in at 2nd, with Inglett and Scoot the backup infield platoon, and that would be good. Injuries happen, so Inglett will likely get his playing time either way.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Oct 4, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
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what i'm really wondering is
why we got batista…. did he make any difference this year?
plus inglett can play 3rd as well, so it would have been a good way to get him some playing time (assuming that rolen will be on the DL at some point next year, which he will of course)
that move just kinda baffled me
by hopelessjaysfan on
Oct 4, 2008 4:35 PM EDT
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I think Bautista is insurance for Rolen.....
Rolen’s going to miss games and Scoot doesn’t have the power to fill in at 3B for the number of games he played there this year.
by Tom Dakers on
Oct 5, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
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it probably can't hurt to have Bautista around
but if Hill is starting at second base, Inglett would be a better option to see most of the at-bats in the event of a Rolen injury, with Bautista seeing lefties. Even if Hill isn’t playing or plays SS when Rolen gets hurt, I think I’d still want to bring up Campbell and move Inglett to third to get most of the at-bats, assuming he continues to produce, rather than seeing Jose everyday. I think Campbell also has a little experience at third base. I say this because I don’t really like the idea of Bautista facing many righthanded pitchers, since he is essentially Scoot against them, with worse defense (lifetime .232/.312/.373 for a career .685 OPS against righties).
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Oct 5, 2008 11:05 AM EDT
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i, also, am not sold on orlando cabrera
maybe i just decide on whether i like guys or not prematurely, but i think he is really overrated. furcal, depending on how much he will get paid, could be an option.
i agree with hopeless . . . inglett has sort of earned himself a job with his decent hitting and pretty good defense, provided that one of them could play shortstop. i know hill has said that he wouldn’t feel comfortable, but what about voodoo joe? maybe a bunch of work in the off-season could get him up to capability.
i don’t think that a hill/inglett middle infield would prevent the jays from contending in ’09.
"The NY Mets are my favorite squadron" --Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
by jessef on
Oct 3, 2008 11:37 PM EDT
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Shortstop
I really think the jays should make a serious run at J.J. Hardy. It seems like the Brewers are ready to hand over the starting shortstop job to Alcides Escobar, and Hardy will become expandable. Hardy won’t come cheap, probably gonna cost something along the line of Cecil + another prospect, but it is well worth it for the stability and power he brings as a shortstop. Even though Furcal is a better player, I would rather the Jays get Hardy, who is younger and cheaper.
I think Orlando Cabrera is overrated and signing him would be a huge mistake. He is basically a .280 singles hitter with no plate discipline.
by slitheringslider on
Oct 6, 2008 1:36 AM EDT
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