A Few Thoughts...

by JMC93 on Dec 18, 2008 4:53 PM EST Comment 17 comments

has anyone considered bobby abreu for the jays? no one seems to be taking an interest and as shown on espn.com he is a consistent performer.

Also Braden Looper would seemingly fit into the Jays rotation.

Scott Carson at sportsnet goes over some 'reclamation projects' :

RHP Tony Armas: Another classic case of being held back by injuries, the most starts he's made in a season to date is 34 back in 2001 for the Expos. Still just 30 years old, Armas had a 2.54 ERA in 17 AAA starts last season and is currently pitching in his native Venezuela this winter. Seems like the perfect non-roster invitee to me.

LHP Mark Hendrickson: The tall lefty, who started his Major League career with the Jays back in '02, has at least been healthy. He has pitched better as an American Leaguer, and perhaps a return to Toronto might be just the tonic to turn around a career that might be on its last legs.

RHP Jason Jennings: The 2002 N.L. Rookie of the Year, like Clement, would be an injury reclamation project. Elbow woes limited him to just five starts with Texas last season, but the fact that he's just 30 years means it wouldn't cost anything for a look-see.

RHP Braden Looper: A one-time closer turned starter had back-to-back, 12-win seasons for the Cardinals in 2007-08. Of the lower-tier free agents, he seems to be the healthiest, having only made one trip to the DL in his career.

RHP Mark Prior: As long as we're trying to find a diamond in the rough, why not take a look at the former ace of the Cubs, who has only made nine starts since the end of the 2005 season. Like Clement, Prior hasn't pitched since 2006, and if he could ever regain his health, they might have something here. And he's still only 28.

C Javier Valentin: The switch-hitting catcher would be the perfect compliment for Rod Barajas as the Jays wait on the arrival of prospect J.P. Arencibia. Valentin is used to being a back-up and not likely to chirp about lack of playing time.

thoughts anyone?

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out of those

I would take a flier on Jennings or Armas – they are relatively young and if they can get and stay healthy they would have a shot at being league average starters.

I woudln’t mind seeing what Valentin can do, though I would make him compete for the backup job with Thigpen.

Prior of course is intriguing, but I can’t imagine any way he’d sign with the Jays. With his history, I wouldn’t really want to make it worth his while by outbidding everyone else.

I can’t imagine Looper or Hendrickson succeeding in an AL East starting job so I’d just as soon turn to Richmond, Mills, or Romero.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 19, 2008 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be against them offering Armas a minor league contract.

He or Jennings would likely be as good a bet as Clement. Valentin seems like the type of player JP would like, a little power and reasonable batting average. If he wasn’t interested in being paid I’m sure we’d take a look at him. Prior…I have doubts he’ll ever be good again. The others I’d take Richmond over any of them.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 19, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

something else interesting...

The A’s placed shortstop Bobby Crosby on outright waivers in the hope that some team will assume his $5.75MM salary for ’09. After his lousy ’08, he may go unclaimed.

If the $5.75 is just for one year, he’d be worth taking a chance on…if he can stay healthy (big if) he could be a good pickup

by bunner on Dec 19, 2008 12:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I saw that

Scutaro was better last season with the bat and the glove, and has better career offensive numbers than Crosby as well (hard to believe, right?). Defensively it’s hard to say, since Scutaro is coming off the better defensive season but Crosby has the better overall defensive numbers (at least in terms of UZR). Given all these things, I’m not sure it would be justified to pay Crosby almost $6 million – if we were going to pay a SS who had a bad 2008 that much, we should’ve traded for Greene, since the Cards gave up nothing for him and he has much better overall numbers and is much less removed from success at close to the same salary. Crosby might be an upgrade, but he might not and the money seems too high for a team as cash-strapped as the Jays.

Bottom line, now that Greene and Furcal are off the market and the Brewers seem unlikely to trade Hardy, I think you roll the dice with Marco – you know what you’re getting offensively, and just hope that 2008 wasn’t a defensive aberration. The one thing I might do is look into whether now that they have brought Furcal back for 3 years, whether you can get Chin-Lung Hu from the Dodgers for Frasor. The Jays save a bit of money and get Hu, who should be about as good as Scutaro with the bat, gives you a little offensive upside, and you can be much more sure he will bring it with the glove. And he has options remaining, so if he’s not any good, you can always stash him in the minors and you’re not spending $5.75 million. Not a sexy move, but I think it’s a smarter one than taking on Crosby’s salary in hopes he will rebound.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 19, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would think

Olando Cabrera won’t be getting too much more than $6million so I doubt we’ll look at Crosby. I’d be surprised if anyone takes him off waivers. I think the A’s will have to paid someone to take him away. I don’t think either one is enough of an upgrade over Scoot to be worth that much more money.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 19, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Scutaro

If he’s as good as he’s made out to be on this site, why is it that he’s never been an everyday player in his 7 year career (one season at 450 abs and 1 over 500 the rest in the 300 range)? It’s because he’s useful on a semi-regular basis to fill in for your actual starter but not really good enough to be an everyday player. It’s not a knock against him, everyone needs a good utility player and Scutaro is that…a GOOD utility player.

He’s no more then a bench/role player on a competitive baseball team…people are making him out to be a top 5 SS in the AL when he’s 33 years old and never been a full-time SS in his career…

You know you’re going to get .260 8-10 hrs out of scutaro…Crosby might be injured but if healthy all year he could hit .280 with 20 HR…I’d take the chance at $5M

And Orlando Cabrera is going to get at least $8M over 3-4 years….I’d take the chance at $5.75 for 1 year of Crosby

by bunner on Dec 19, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you believe

that Beyond the Box Score actually had Scoot as tied with Mike Aviles for the best shortstop in the AL last year. The truth is that there are not a lot of great shortstops in the American League and just saying that Scoot has been a bench-player his whole career, while certainly true, doesn’t necessarily mean that he isn’t capable of being a starter. I do agree though that even assuming he provided that kind of production for the Jays last season, he’s by no means likely to do so next season. You know what you’re going to get offensively but those defensive numbers came out of nowhere.

I would love to upgrade on Scoot, but we know the team is strapped for money so if we are going to spend $6 million it should be on a better bet for an upgrade than hoping that Crosby suddenly turns around a career that has been terrible since a half-season in 2005. This isn’t betting on somebody who used to be good and has fallen on hard times – Scoot’s career offensive numbers are better than Crosby’s and his line drive rate and other indicators were putrid last season. I’d be willing to take a flier on Crosby for the upside, but not to pay him $6 million we could be using on a starter or a bat. If the A’s really want to get rid of him, no one is likely to claim him so we can probably get them to pay some of his salary to take him away. And I still like the Hu idea better since we have no real SS in the high minors anyway, and certainly none reasonably likely to put up over a .700 OPS and play plus defense.

Who’s going to give Cabrera that kind of deal, do you think?

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 19, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crosby hit 22 home runs once....in 2004....

last year in 145 games he hit .237/.296/.349…..and over his career is .239/.306/.380

Scoot last year was .267/.325/.356 and career .261/.325/.356.

Beyond the Boxscore had Scoot as the best defensive SS in baseball last year. Crosby as 11th best.

And in their rankings of shortstops has Scoot 7th best SS in baseball while Crosby wasn’t in the top 25. Honest, I’m not Scoot’s biggest fan but if we are going to pay double for someone else he better be clearly a better player, not maybe a better player, because the same money can easily improve our DH spot.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 19, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

haha beat you to it

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 19, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you did.....

damn slow typing fingers……

by Tom Dakers on Dec 19, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You Guys

Do you have matching Scutaro jerseys and sit there trying to find anything good about him? Need to change the name of the site from Bluebird Banter to Scoot Lovers Anonymous….and the nickname Scoot is the gayest thing since Richard Simmons!

He wasn’t a full-time SS so ranking him as the best defensive SS in the AL doesn’t mean much when he didn’t play everday…he might have done just as well in a full time play at SS or he might have done way worse…not really a fair ranking when he’s being compared to guys that play SS day in and day out…I’m not trying to hate on Scutaro but just don’t have any confidence that he’ll be a productive everyday SS (offensively or defensively)…I have a ton of confidence that he’ll be a productive utility player as he has been his entire career.

I’m not saying Bobby Crosby is the answer but paying $6M for him for one year is at worst a waste of $6M at best could be a sly move by JP…picking up one of his former A’s and watching him turn around. Spending $6M on a FA is a at worst a waste of $6M over probably 3-4 years and at best 3-4 years of someone who’s average at best. I’d still take Crosby at 1 year $6M…

I’d much rather see the Jays pick up pitching but they don’t seem to want to do that, being that Crosby is a reclamation project and a former Oakland A he seems perfect for JP!

by bunner on Dec 19, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hahahaha

I do generally agree with you that the Jays would be better off upgrading at SS and moving Marco back into his utility role, but that’s not going to happen if the player they get isn’t any better than Marco – it’ll just be a waste of money. That’s why I was open to the idea of Furcal or Greene – when healthy, those two have represented a clear upgrade over Marco – and though Greene had an awful year last season, he was consistently good before then and so was a decent risk on a 1-year deal. Crosby, on the other hand, hasn’t been good since 2005 and that was in a half-season so you can hardly fault Marco’s numbers last year if you’re looking at that.

I’m not even saying Scoot is good, just pointing out that the folks at Beyond the Boxscore saw him as a lot more effective than I did. That said, it’s not Scoot’s fault that he was constantly asked to bat leadoff. I’m personally not expecting much from him this season, but then, I’m also not expecting much from Crosby. I do agree that if the choice is between the Jays getting Crosby and doing nothing, they might as well take on Crosby – it’s not my money after all. But if the opportunity cost is losing the chance to take on an arm or a bat that has put together a good season sometime in the last 4 years, it doens’t seem like a very good deal.

Just saying that Scoot’s never been an everyday player before doesn’t mean that he isn’t the best everyday option for the Jays right now. I wish he wasn’t the best option, but he might be.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 19, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to upgrade SS

but $6 mill for a guy that had one good season 5 years ago….and who for the last three years hasn’t had a on base above .300 or a slugging above .350. My guess is no one takes Crosby off waivers. Reclamation projects are generally guys that you can sign for under a million dollars.

I want the team to pick up players that are clearly better than what we have.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 19, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If it is up to me.....

I’d ask/tell Hill to play short, and have Inglett and Scutaro platoon at second. If Hill won’t play SS I’d want to try Inglett at short in spring training, because I’d love to have him leading off against right handers.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 19, 2008 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

Inglett at short is a stretch – he barely played the position at all in the minors. No harm in trying though.

I’ve also advocated moving Hill to short – if he could play average defense there, that’d be great both for the team and for Hill’s career. Maybe Cito can sell him on it?

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 20, 2008 6:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs