Down to the Bottom of the Sea: Game 39, Jays at the Indians of Cleveland
Toronto Blue Jays at Cleveland Indians, May 11, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
If you actually watched the entire game on Saturday, you're a far better man than I. I got in from my gig at around 8:30, saw the Jays down 12-0, and immediately put in a Netflix (The Fisher King, which I liked a lot). Between that and the bad news regarding Wells, things are looking pretty bad right now. Newcomers Wilkerson and Mench haven't exactly lit things up. Once the 10 days have passed, I hope the Jays send someone down and recall Lind - the way the offense is going, it's not like Lind can make it any worse, so we might as well give him some regular MLB at-bats and see if he shows himself to be a major-league hitter, since he will be 25 in July.
I won't be around for the game today, as it's Mother's Day and I have a feeling Mrs. Hugo might prefer, well, pretty much anything to watching the Jays flail uselessly against another left-handed pitcher. The Jays will throw Shaun Marcum, while the Indians counter with Cliff Lee, who is pitching even better this season than Marcum is. Maybe that drubbing will wake something up in the Jays, who knows? At the very least, ruining their pythagorean record will hide their pathetic performance in the clutch.
Update: 5.12.2008: Let's go ahead and use this game thread for this afternoon's 4 pm game. Torgen is, as usual, right on the mark, and I jumped the gun one start. It's A.J. Burnett against Fausto Carmona this afternoon, and then the 2nd half of the trad. doubleheader will be the Marcum-Lee matchup.
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143 comments
Comments
Today is Burnett vs. Carmona
Marcum vs. Lee is tomorrow.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 11, 2008 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that's shaking up the lineup
Wilkerson, Hill, Rios, Rolen, Stairs, Overbay, Scutaro, Barajas, Inglett (in LF)
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 11, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And it's raining
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 11, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting that the games in Detroit and Pittsburgh have been called already
and in Cleveland they’re trying to wait it out.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 11, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, now they've called it
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 11, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh joy, it's going to be a regular-style doubleheader
not the day-night kind.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 11, 2008 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to try to watch the first game.....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Try as in try to be somewhere where you can watch it?
Or try as in try not to be repulsed by what you see?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am really not thrilled with them signing more former good players.....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I like what they've done with the starting staff
Put in young guys and watch them improve….course I guess that wasn’t the plan last year….the old, used to be good pitchers they signed got hurt and they had to use the young guys…..now the hitters are getting hurt and they search out older used to be good players.
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohka didn't get hurt
he just sucked.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1-2-3 in the first for the Jays
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Burnett looks good thought....
nice K to start the game
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rolen takes a walk....
Lets see how Stairs does against Carmona’s fastball….
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Grounds into a double play
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
never mind....nice double play on the first pitch.....yay stairs
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least it took a flashy play
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we stop pulling the ball yet?
At least Stairs’ GIDP ball was up the middle.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so if we get another fielder hurt what old formerly good batter are we going to sign?
Carl Yastremski is available
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another 1-3 out....Burnett is going to do it all himself today...
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is he going to his a pinch hit homer for himself too?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think watching Scoot and Barajas bat back to back is cruel and inhuman punishment
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Scoot's been so hot
I thought he should be leading off. At least until he cools off again.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Against lefties, anyways.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inglett can't swing on a hit and run
and Barajas makes it back to the bag.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What was that?
is there some law that says we have to have a runner thrown out on the bases every game…...just made it back
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well the ball was below his knees and inside
Not much swing you can put on that
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RISP time!
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well....Wilkerson moves the runner up to third....
First pitch swinging…
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not useful when it makes the second out
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
0 for 1
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hill doesn't look good at the plate at the moment...
Think he’s pressing?
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
0 for 2
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At what point do we look at the batting coach?
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He came highly recommended by Derek Jeter
a man with a vested interest in our failure. How can we blame him?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know we are goign to point to injuries....but a healthy team was last...
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which guys are really hitting worse than we'd imagine they should be
Hill, Rios, Overbay…..
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lind, when he was here
which is relevant because if he had hit then he’d still be here, which would eliminate the need for Wilkerson.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells had only recently heated up
before breaking his wrist.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another K for AJ
5 now…..what’s the most K’s in a game for the Jay’s this year?
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I woudl assume so
Carmona is a ground ball machine.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rios singles into the Bermuda Triangle
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The opposite field Bermuda Triangle, no less
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rios not running
but breaks up the double play.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and there is our out on the base paths.....What was Rolen thinking....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was probably thinking
“Pevey is waving me to third.”
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tabler is saying what a good play it was for Rolen....
Damn it you get 27 outs a game don’t give them away
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
24 if you count Barajas.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another fly ball for Wilk
this one almost not caught.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good when you can elevate against a power sinker
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ's been more democratic the last couple of innings...
Letting the fielders play too
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hill strikes out looking bad again....wish they could sit him a day or two....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
another day or two?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did he sit?
Missed the games on the weekend
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ lucked out
That was almost game over.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And that's game over.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lead off single for stairs....why would anyone throw him anything but a fastball....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because when you guess right on a fastball, it's not just a ground ball single
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stairs breaks up the double play
because we have enough of those already. Overbay, why are you pulling the ball?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Barajas average is up from where I thought it was.....
.236….only 40 points of so off respectable….
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
RISP time!
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
0 for 3
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Had it wrong...he was .286 with RISP.....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well then he was definitely leading the team
Why did we ever send him down?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember how he looks in the OF....plus small sample size.....
But…think he’s earned a longer look
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ walks Hafner
Here comes the 5 run inning.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that's game over
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah tough when you have to pitch a shut out....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even a shutout wouldn't be good enough
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So how long before we release Wilkerson?
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well we brought him in because he's a lefty who historically hit lefties well
and we were going to face 3 this series. When can we call up Lind?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But historically was a few years ago now......He was Great in 2005....but hasn't hit much since....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if we release him after today he cost the team $10k for the series
plus his plane tickets.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I understand the merit of saving the bullpen in the first game of a doubleheader
but AJ’s probably not going to finish this inning at this rate.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least you can fiddle with the rotation because of the doubleheader
because you’re going to have to get a spot start from someone, so you can give AJ the extra day of rest by having Marcum pitch the day after that.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I'm hoping that's what happens....not put him in a day early.....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he got an extra day's rest for throwing one inning of relief
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he walks Hafner.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And lyle quickly hits into a double play so they can rest up for tonight's game....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They're going to get the same amount of rest regardless of when the game ends
and anyways, it’s not like they’re going to have to stand on bases or run between them.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that was great fun....shut out again....5 hits and stairs got three....
if there had to be a jay of the game like have to be him
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably should be
Fangraphs is charging him for Rolen getting thrown out at third, which is why it has him as a negative. Anyways, in theory Burnett should be too, because 3 runs over 7+ is usually really good.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fangraphs.com
Under scoreboard, clikc ‘live scoreboard’. Clicking the graph for one of the games will give you each player’s WPA for the game. You can also get a log of the value of each play.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Marcum can throw a shut out tonight....
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My prediction
Cliff Lee throws a perfect game. Marcum throws a no-hitter, but loses because of a Scutaro throwing error allowing a runner to go to third, later scoring on a sac fly.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that great homestand?
We just erased it.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I have a bad feeling about the rest of this season.....
It isn’t so bad watching a team lose when they are young players and you think they’ll improve, but we is losing with old guys and they ain’t going to get better.
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That fangraph shows how good the offence has been...the best players on the team are Rolen and Thomas....
Everyone else is a negitive…..
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Leaders in helping us lose Stewart, Stairs and Barajas....
always thought the proof of a stat was it it tells you what your eyes see….this one is a good one…..
by Tom Dakers on May 12, 2008 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you looking at the same list I am?
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Blue%20Jays&season=2008
The leader in helping us lose is Aaron Hill.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 12, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was reading the BRAA
In Hill’s case there is a big difference between the two ratings….wonder why that is? Hill is third best in BRAA and team worse in WPA. Both ratings agree that Stairs has had an awful start to the season.
by Tom Dakers on May 13, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DIfference between BRAA and WPA means clutch
or lack thereof.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on May 13, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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