Two Words JP: You're Fired!
by bunner
on Aug 1, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
29 comments
I was personally hoping the Jays would throw in the towel and trade the likes of AJ Burnett, Gregg Zaun/Rod Barajas, Matt Stairs, David Eckstein and even (if they could get a king's ransom) Roy Halladay. I feel that this team is not close to competing in the AL East of even seriously for the WC and they need to start with young players and build a strong core and then surround it with some vets, enough of this patch work system we've had for a while now.
But, then I heard grumblings the Jays were looking at Bay and/or at Ibanez to help boost the offence and thought that even though it may not be great to continue patching a lack luster team at least JP was looking to do something and was trying to show the players and fans that he had faith that with a little tweak the team may get right into the WC/AL East hunt.
In the end JP did nothing...which is by far the worst possible thing for the team. JP has proven once again he has no sense of direction for the team. He's not trying to rebuild and he's not trying to seriously make a run for a WC. He has told the players and fans that he doesn't know what to expect from his team and he's not willing to guide them down a path whether it be for now or the future.
So now the Jays will lose AJ Burnett and get 2 supplemental draft picks for him and with JPs draft history who knows what to expect from them. They still do not have a SS for the future that can play everyday, catching both offensively and defensively is a gaping hole as is producing runs on offence. Which moving Burnett along could have filled a few of those holes at least.
The only hope I have is that the upper management blocked JP from making any moves because he will not be the one running the team in the future and they did not want him screwing things up more. I pray that the off-season brings the removal of JP as GM and that his replacement has a plan for the team that he will actually execute!
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Yeah I agree he's gotta be fired.....
I thought at very least he ought to get rid of the guys that aren’t going to be here next season Zaun and Eck and Stair…I didn’t even care what they got for them, if they aren’t going to be here lets look at the younger players they hope will fill the spots. Same with AJ, unless JP is sure he staying he had to be traded. If he leaves now JP has to be fired.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 1, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
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Zaun
I have no idea why we even kept Zaun. The guy is clearly not starting material and yet he complains like a baby when he can’t start all the time. He can’t throw out runners and his bat is horrible… I laughed so hard when I heard he was implicated in the steroid rumours… come on, steroids are supposed to enhance your play… even though Barajas has a better arm and was hitting really well for a while, he’s probably too old to be a long term solution. So the question is, where is Curtis Thigpen??
by hopelessjaysfan on
Aug 2, 2008 1:53 PM EDT
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Sucking in AAA
As is Diaz. At least Jeroloman has an excuse: he’s only played a handful of games in Syracuse.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on
Aug 2, 2008 3:29 PM EDT
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Thigpen
Is currently hitting .223 at AAA…I never really thought he had the bat or the glove to be a long term solution at catcher for the Jays. Diaz on the other hand has a better shot, I think he’s more defensively sound and his bat has been pretty decent throughout the minors…
by bunner on
Aug 5, 2008 8:37 AM EDT
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I really think J.P. Arencibia will or maybe already has jumped both of them in the prospects list
He has power and his defense is supposed to be ok. Brian Jeroloman is also a good prospect, likely the best defensive player of the bunch. I really think any two of them could give us as much as Zaun and Barajas did this year.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 5, 2008 11:33 AM EDT
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Arencibia
Looks to have a good bat but has a lot of issues with plate discipline right now, hopefully he can overcome it but if not he could have some major issues at higher levels…
All I know is Gregg Zaun has no bat and he’s got to be the worst at throwing out runners, I think John Olerud could steal on him! Anyone is an upgrade over Zaun…
by bunner on
Aug 5, 2008 12:33 PM EDT
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Also...
I know that Bengie Molina was uber slow but he wasn’t awful defensively and his bat is a HUGE upgrade over anyone we currently have. Way to go JP (and Gibbons) screwing that one up too!
by bunner on
Aug 5, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
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Did we get draft picks for him?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on
Aug 5, 2008 10:37 PM EDT
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I took a quick look at baseball reference.com
and it didn’t list a draft pick for Bengie in 2007. We got two picks each for Catalanloto, and Speeir and one for Lily.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 6, 2008 4:29 PM EDT
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It's tough to go through what A's fans are going through right now
But even with how freaking dark it is right now, at least the green and gold has a very bright light at the end of the tunnel. Granted it probably won’t shine brightly until 2010, but I know that when the team gets good, it’s going to be scary good.
What does this have to do with the Jays? I think JP has gotten caught in a position where he’s not really rebuilding, but the team isn’t competitive in the exceptionally tough AL East. They should’ve made some moves at the deadline and started the process. I think the demise really started when the Jays couldn’t get Lincecum for Rios. Imagine that team with the Halladay, Lincecum, Marcum and Burnett. The team wouldn’t have needed any offense to compete this year.
by Blez on
Aug 7, 2008 1:50 AM EDT
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Interesting enough...
I was just thinking about that deal that could have been yesterday and was going to post about it…
As much as it would be great to have Lincecum, I think without Rios they Jays would be in last and well below .500. Rios hasn’t been the power threat he was last year, but he’s been decent hitting aroung .280 with lots of doubles and his steals have been great!
Lincecum would have been coming to a new league, a tougher league for pitchers, and a much tougher division. He would also be in much more of a hitters park then he is currently in, in SF. So his numbers likely would not have been as good. And the Jays offence with Wells injured, Hill injured, Thomas released and no Rios would look like this:
1B: Overbay
2B: Scutaro/Inglett
3B: Rolen/Scutaro
SS: Eckstein/Scutaro
LF: Lind
RF: Wilkerson/Stairs/Mench
CF: Wilkerson/Inglett
DH: Stairs
That is so awful they’d be lucky to score a run a game, not even Doc/Burnett/Lincecum/Marcum would be enough to overcome that.
by bunner on
Aug 7, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
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The thing is.....
If they had traded Rios for Lincecum, and I have no idea if SF would have gone for the idea, some other more would have likely been made. I don’t think JP would have gone into the season thinking Stairs/Wells/Lind/Stewart would be the outfield he wanted. So, I think, odds are something else would have happened. I think one of the pitchers (Litsch or MacGowan?) would have been traded for someone to play outfield.
Course it may have been the spring board for a bunch of moves…..then again if I went back in time in my time machine, maybe stepping on a butterfly would have caused Eck to hit 40 homeruns this year.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 7, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
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it would have been amazing if JP could have gotten Lincencum
for Rios. I remember being ridiculously excited about that deal on the site even though I knew it was unlikely to happen, b/c it would be a bad deal for San Fran. Rios isn’t bad, but he’s not good enough to build your team around. Lincencum is.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Aug 7, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
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I don't like him hitting like he is this year
He doesn’t get on enough to be a lead off type guy no matter bases he steals. And his average is fairly high but empty for an outfielder. If you are going to be a corner outfielder gotta have power or be a real lead off type. I really think that he is more to blame for Gibby getting fired than anyone. If he had the same season as last year we’d still be complaining about Gibby.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 7, 2008 4:03 PM EDT
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One could argue
that Gibby is the reason for Rios not having the power #s…being bounced around in the lineup anywhere from leadoff to #5 can confuse a young player…should he walk, should he try to get on and steal, should he swing away???
Rios needs to be stuck in the #3 or #5 spot in the order and be told to produce runs…bottom line. Depending on who the coach is next year, I really look for a huge bounce back year, there’s no way with his talent and swing that he has 4 HRs at the all-star break next year.
by bunner on
Aug 7, 2008 4:36 PM EDT
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Unless of course.....
he was juicing before. Now I AM NOT SAYING HE WAS JUICING. JP has often said that evaluating players is harder now because we don’t know who might have been. And he has suggested that power numbers are down through out the league because players aren’t anymore.
I have a feeling that juicing likely has as big a mental aspect as physical. I would think that players using would think that they are strong enough to hit the ball out at any time and often thinking you can is half the battle. Going off it, well you think you aren’t as strong so you aren’t.
Again, I’m not saying he was, just noting that his power came from nowhere and seemingly has gone back to nowhere and there are a lot of possible reasons why.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 7, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
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Just saw this quote so have to add it:
The toughest thing for a scout? “Deciding whether what you see in a player now is what he is and not thinking back to what he was before they began steroid testing.”
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 7, 2008 4:58 PM EDT
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I think you underestimate Lincecum
He is, in my opinion, the best young pitcher in baseball. I think you could have a little league lineup and still win a good share of ballgames with the fantastic four of a rotation. You’d be the envy of all of baseball.
And who knows, maybe you don’t let go of Thomas if you had the rotation at the start of the year? Regardless, I think JP would’ve probably had gone out and got some offensive support.
by Blez on
Aug 7, 2008 8:08 PM EDT
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I think...
you over estimate JP…his vision of offensive help is Wilkerson, Scutaro or Mench…he’s never been able to go out and get a true impact bat. The impact bats in the lineup, Rios and Wells were both here with Ricciardi came in. Who’s JP brought in?
Overbay? (not bad, not impact)
Glaus? was good but is gone
Rolen? injury prone and awful for a big stud 3B that he’s supposed to be
Thomas? Released
Lind? Here’s hoping he’s the one!
by bunner on
Aug 7, 2008 10:06 PM EDT
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WHOA!!!
I just read got this link out of one of the other posts on this site:
http://torontosun.com/Sports/Columnists/Elliott_Bob/2006/07/16/1686900.html
So hold on, Jays could have had David Wright (albeit as a prospect who we could have still screwed up or traded for somethine else useless) or Raphael Soriano (who at the time was also a top prospect that we could have screwed up or traded) for Jose Cruz Jr who was already screwed up and we let go for nothing??!
Why is JP so flippin’ afraid to make a trade? And why is that when he’s talking to the media about trades he’s so standoffish as if he knows what’s best and no one else knows anything.
With each day that passes my hate for JP grows exponentially!
by bunner on
Aug 7, 2008 4:49 PM EDT
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If it is true......
JP said it wasn’t true…..course that means nothing, but none of us will ever know if it is true.
by Tom Dakers on
Aug 7, 2008 4:54 PM EDT
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J.P. is right that you can't believe everything you read
but there’s no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt at all. You give up the right to get the benefit of the doubt when you’re constantly lying.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Aug 7, 2008 7:41 PM EDT
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JP not all bad..
Yea I am not his number one fan, however trading Burnett was not the answer. If you trade him you lose the 2 draft picks he gets us at the end of the year, and seeing how you cant trade draft picks in MLB its highly unlikely we would have gotten two first round prospects for burnett.
by Quinton on
Aug 10, 2008 9:08 AM EDT
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1st Round Prospects in Baseball...
are at least 4 years away from helping at the ML level, if ever! Baseball’s picks have a huge success rate at flaming out before ever doing anything in the majors. So to get 2 prospects for AJ that are already in say AA or AAA gives you players that will be in the bigs sooner and have already worked their way through the minors to show they have a better shot at completeing. Not to mention JPs draft history has been less then stellar…
To say that 2 first round picks are more valuable then established prospects is crazy IMO, 3 other starters that were dealt: Harden, Sabathia and Blanton all got a good haul of prospects, I’d rate AJ right behind Harden and Sabathia and well ahead of Blanton in that list but to even get what Oakland got for Blanton in exchange for AJ would have been great for the Jays.
by bunner on
Aug 11, 2008 9:22 AM EDT
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I think that's basically right
but if the offers weren’t there, what can you do? I do think part of J.P.’s calculus is that he thinks he can resign A.J., though he has been very quiet about that.
I’m not too familiar with what Oakland got for Blanton, but for whatever reason, Blanton is overrated and Burnett is underrated.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Aug 11, 2008 8:23 PM EDT
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Blanton is about as good
as a starter with average stuff who pounds the strike zone and gives up alot of singles, and there are plenty pf pitchers who can do that. He’s not overrated, but he is overvalued in the context of a penant race.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
by jobe on
Aug 22, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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hey Quinton!
long time no write! hope everything’s going well. like most everything else, I think it depends. The Jays said they wanted two mlb-ready young players for Burnett. If they could’ve gotten that, the trade is a no-brainer. Heck, if they could’ve gotten one guy like that and another high-ceiling but raw prospect, I’d still do the deal – draft picks being more speculative. But the fact is that drafted players seem to be getting less speculative as methods for evaluating players get more sophisticated, and if the Jays were unable to get at least one high-ceiling, close to mlb-ready player for A.J., I’m with you that the picks could end up being better. I also think that J.P. thinks that he can resign A.J., and that’s his plan. If it works out, he will look smart for keeping him. But if he’s wrong, he could end up looking bad.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on
Aug 11, 2008 8:21 PM EDT
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