Lose Brad Arnsberg for One Season of Cito Gaston? Who Thinks That's a Good Trade Off?
So what do we think about Cito staying and Arnsberg going? Our friends at Tao of Stieb and The Drunks very clearly hate it. And they are right. We all have been working under the theory that Cito and Brad couldn't work together another year. One of them had to go.
Since Brad Arnsberg came to the team we have been one of the best pitching teams in baseball. This past season he had a pitching staff that's been held together with chewing gum. We had 7 starting pitchers injured. He did an amazing job with all the young guys we had in the rotation. I thought for the job he did turning Ricky Romero into a major league pitcher from the punchline to a JP can't draft joke was enough that he should have been given a contract for life. He turned Scott Downs pitching career around along with several others.
Cito......well Cito batted Kevin Millar in the cleanup spot several times this year. Doesn't that say enough. If it doesn't, then maybe the players complaining about about the lack of communication coming from him should have been enough to fire him. We have always been told how Cito is a 'player's manager'. If the selling point of a guy is that he is a player's manager and the players hate him, what have you really got? A guy who's idea of in game management is to pinch run Johnny Mac every couple of games.
So, basically, we have traded the best pitching coach in baseball for one year of Cito. One year. A year that should be a building year. So if Cito is leaving after this building year, wouldn't you rather build with the manager that's going to be there after the year. If say Buck Showalter (or whoever) was going to be the guy, wouldn't you want him here now so he evaluate the team?
There is one excuse that Anthopoulos could give us that I would accept. It is possible that Arnsberg decided to go to Houston first. Maybe the sequence of events wasn't Cito's staying so Arnsberg is going. Maybe it was that Arnsberg decided he wanted to work closer to home. Or he wanted a new challenge. Or Houston just made too good an offer. But man, if I'm in Anthopoulos' spot I do whatever I have to to keep Brad.
I'll admit. I was drinking the koolaid as much or more than anyone else. I was very happy when Alex got the GM job. All the stories about renewed enthusiasm with in the organization sounded great. Then the announcement that Paul Beeston was staying. And the team would have more money for players. And I liked all the moves to reorganize the front office. Yep, I was sold. Things were turning, life was good.
And then this.
And well, I'm not drinking the koolaid anymore. I was sold on Alex, he didn't quite have me at hello, but he had me soon after. Now they have to sell me all over again.
It is going to be a much harder sell this time.
What do you think?
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18 comments
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Comments
Chain of events
Story is that Arnsberg and Brad Mills are old friends, and that Mills called and asked for permission to offer him the job. So, it appears that the sequence was Arnsberg was going, so Cito might as well stay.
What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to rebuild the coaching staff, where’s the heir apparent who’s going to get a year’s experience with the players and be ready to take over in 2011?
by mlaffs on Oct 31, 2009 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't really explain how things went down
If the Jays wanted to keep Arnsberg then they could have denied permission, it was a lateral move so they didn’t have to allow him to go. And we don’t know if Brad would have wanted to go if Cito wasn’t going to stay.
The heir apparent would be Butterfield if they wanted to go with someone that’s part of the team now. I wouldn’t be against that, he is a very smart baseball man and has been around the Jays for a long time.
by Tom Dakers on Oct 31, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can Rance coach pitching? Ha Ha , just kidding
by aagoodfella on Oct 31, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Enough Information
I don’t think we have any where close to a complete picture of what’s going on in the clubhouse, or what specifics are actually involved here to make any kind of speculation that is more than a shot in the dark. If the situation is that the Jays chose to let Arnsberg go to keep Gaston, then it’s a bad move. But I doubt it is that simple, and there’s no way to know what factors are involved.
by dexfarkin on Oct 31, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Close to bailing on the team
If this is the way this team is going to continue to be run, I’m out. This is completely ridiculous.
by Jevant on Oct 31, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it is looking bleak right now
(1) new President who really proved nothing in his trial period
(2) new GM with no track record who brings in his hold buddy from the Nats
(3) lost two best coaches on the team — hitting and pitching
(4) re-hired a GM who seems to act in a manner frequently inconsistent with the prime objective of winning
so far, it is hard to be ebullient
by aagoodfella on Oct 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused about rehiring a GM?
The New President never had a ‘trial period….unless you are talking about 1989. And calling Tenace one of the best coaches is a stretch…..I don’t see him as a big loss. And of course a GM is going to bring in people he knows. You want him hiring guys he doesn’t know? If you get a job and you worked with someone you thought was good wouldn’t you hire him?
by Tom Dakers on Oct 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, I substituted the word “trial” for “interim” : to quote from a previous BBB posting “Paul Beeston was appointed interim CEO in October 2008 and we began an exhaustive search process for a permanent candidate”
by aagoodfella on Oct 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hiring people on the basis of familiarity versus hiring people on the basis of credentials is a step down in professionalism, IMHO
by aagoodfella on Oct 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't an either/or thing
Baseball is a pretty small community. If you are good, you know the other guys that are good. If you’ve worked in it for 10+ years like Anthopoulos has, he has worked with a lot of the people in it and likely knows almost everyone that is good.
You aren’t going to go outside the baseball world to hire a player development guy.
by Tom Dakers on Oct 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope is bleak...
Unless we start trading and gutting our farm system to give Cito a team of veterans and cyborg pitchers that have arms he can ride on, 2010 is looking like a wash-out. Or maybe he’ll have a short leash, maybe without Millar he’ll suddenly start doing the right things to win games.
It’s like a part of me just can’t let go of hoping for the impossible. Does this mean I have to cheer for the Leafs now?
by Casusby on Oct 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh god no....don't cheer for the leafs.....
by Tom Dakers on Oct 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am getting on the Raptors bandwagon
by aagoodfella on Oct 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been enjoying watching the Leafs lose too much to cheer for them now I guess.
Might jump on with the Raptors too, but they looked pretty sad in Memphis. Maybe they’ll do better back at home.
by Casusby on Oct 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bosh looked great … I am definitely a big fan of that guy
by aagoodfella on Oct 31, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arnsberg loss not the end of the world
You have to wonder how many of our pitchers’ injuries are due to his coaching style. Face it, we’ve had an epidemic.
I would have liked this news a lot more if Cito would have moved to his consultancy role immediately. I don’t see what he has to offer in the way of coaching the many young Jays.
by TenaciousDirk on Oct 31, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This year we had an epidemic.....
but in the past it hasn’t been that bad.
by Tom Dakers on Oct 31, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There doesn’t seem to be enough info here but if Brad said to Alex its me or cito…. i would take cito…. Brad has done a good job but you don’t always get what you want…. sometimes you got to work with people you don’t like…. thats life…. if I’m Alex I don’t let a pitching coach call the shots….. if Brad is leaving because he wants to be closer to home then I wish him well…. If Alex took cito over Brad then I think Alex did the right move….
If the arguement here is cito only has one year left…. I can see hiring a new manager…. I like cito and would like to see him stay but if they fired him because they wanted a manager to be with the team for awhile then I would be ok with that…. I have a hard time letting the pitching coach fire the manager though…
by hugiman on Nov 6, 2009 1:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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