Monday Banterings: Spring Training Dates, Brandon Phillips Rumors

by Tom Dakers on Nov 16, 2009 11:20 AM EST in News Comment 23 comments

The Jays announced their spring training schedule this morning. Pitchers and catchers report February 22nd. Position players on the 25th and the first spring games is March 3rd. If you are planning a trip to Dunedin to watch the Jays their schedule is here. They start the regular season in Texas on April 5th. First game in Toronto is on the 12th against Alex Rios (unless they cut him by then) and the Chicago White Sox. So spring baseball is just a little over 3 months away.

Jeff Blair in the Globe thinks the Jays will 'be all over' Brandon Phillips if the Cincinnati decide they want to cut payroll. I'd understand the move if Phillips could still play shortstop but he's only played second base in the majors. Blair figures the Jays want him for third base. Personally I'd like them to stick with Encarnacion for the year and see what he can do if he is healthy. Phillips is a pretty good player, but his numbers aren't much better than Edwin's could be.

Baseball Prospectus has questions and answers with Ricky Romero. Here's the his answer to a question about Brad Arnsberg leaving:

RR: Any time you lose someone that you’re close with, and get to work with, it’s obviously going to be a little different, but I still feel that we have a good pitching coach in Bruce Walton. He kind of worked under Arnie a little bit, and he knows me, and I actually got to work with him a couple of times this year when Arnie took a leave of absence, early in the year, for his son’s graduation or something. So I was able to work with Pappy and talk to him a lot during the year, and he helped me out too. He’s a very knowledgeable guy, in pitching, and I couldn’t any happier for him.

And Beyond the Boxscore takes a look at the possibility of the Pirates trading Ryan Doumit and the theory of 'buying low'. If they are going to trade him I hope the Jays look into him.

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Yea, the Brandon Phillips acquisition seems pointless.

It is hard to get real excited about Doumit. Is he much change from Barajas? I guess it all depends on price. Doumit’s 2008 season does provide some basis for optmism, but I would be cautious about the price.

by aagoodfella on Nov 16, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Doumit seems a lot more likely a pickup than Phillips. Both the Mets and the Dodgers are supposed to be in on him, and if that’s the case, I think his cost will get up past his relative worth to the Jays specifically very quickly.

The advantage of Doumit is that he can likely be peeled away for pitching. Pirates need arms in their rotation and bullpen, and the Jays have some depth to deal from. He’s a good defender, doesn’t walk enough, but even injuried seems to put the ball in play a decent amount. He’s also young, where as a lot of the potential FA catchers are getting pretty long in the tooth.

by dexfarkin on Nov 16, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah the nice part is he is going into Doumit prime years.

by Tom Dakers on Nov 16, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he’s going into what we assume are Doumit prime years assuming he remains healthy and his 2008 numbers are a reasonable indication of what we could expect his range to be, which is a top defending, over-average offensive catcher. Much like Snyder, this is not a potential trade without risk.

by dexfarkin on Nov 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe the rumour of acquiring Phillips and trading Hill are not mutually exclusive

maybe hill for phillips and alonso. that would give the reds a much more palpable salary structure at the expense of a first baseman who is blocked. the jays would look for emaus/campbell/tolisano/pastornicky to replace phillips in 2012.

i haven’t looked at phillips very closely, but the jays may require a bit more back.

by ayjackson on Nov 16, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

WHAT RUMOUR ABOUT HILL?!!!!

by aagoodfella on Nov 16, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

cnnsi

some writer apparently said the Jays are looking at trading Halladay and Hill. probably random speculation.

by ayjackson on Nov 16, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Take that one with an entire saltlick...

Yeah, sounds like someone decided the Jays are going to tear the whole thing down and start over, and in that case, obviously you need to move Hill, Halladay and likely Lind and Snider too.

by dexfarkin on Nov 16, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

even if you are rebuilding how in the heck would it make any sense to get rid of Lind or Snider … they are young, talented and cheap and the Jays can control them for a long time … how are you going to get better?

and even if you are rebuilding there is no reason to move Hill either .. he is good value for money

Halladay is good value for money too, but he goes FA soon so it probably makes sense to trade him

yes, I will go with that saltlick advice

by aagoodfella on Nov 17, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Logic doesn’t often enter into the minds of sports writers when it involves teams they don’t know well. The formula is thus.

1. Is the team a possible contender? -if yes, they are ‘buyers’, – if no, they are ‘looking to drop payroll’.

2. Is the team in a position to have to trade a star player or lose one to free agency that they have no possibility to re-sign? -if yes, the team is ‘rebuilding’, -if no, they are ‘evaluating prospects’.

3. Does the team have other players that are good that the sports writer has heard about and might improve teams he knows better? -if yes, all of the named players are ‘possible trade pieces for a rebuilding club’, -if no, the team is ‘consigned to the celler for next season’.

Shake, rinse, and repeat until Spring Training.

by dexfarkin on Nov 17, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Although I agree with any suggestion to trade Hill (his value will never, ever be higher), if it’s for Phillips/Alonso, the Jays are idiots. Getting Alonso would be awesome, but Hill should fetch much, much more than that.

by Jevant on Nov 16, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And from what I hear, the Reds are more interested in trading Votto.

by Jevant on Nov 16, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reds fan here, poking my nose in

The Reds have no interest in trading Votto. Walt Jocketty’s exact quote when asked about rumors of shopping Votto was, “Oh god, no.” Jocketty’s been clear that he’s trying to acquire younger, cheaper players (though the Rolen trade clearly conflicts with that), so it would be hard for him to justify to the fanbase if he were to trade his best young player even before he gets to arbitration. Jocketty has also come out in the last couple of days and said that the cutting of payroll has been overblown by the media and that he doesn’t even have a budget yet. That’s probably more him just trying to keep ticket sales from falling off out of fear of the Reds putting another crappy team on the field, but I’d guess that we won’t see a lot of activity from the Reds until they’re sure how well season tix are selling.

As for Phillips, I don’t think there is a significant offensive difference between him and a healthy Encarnacion, but I would guess that Phillips is a better defensive 3B – it would be hard to be worse. I wouldn’t guess that Phillips’ defensive value would be as high at 3B since range isn’t as necessary, though he has a solid arm. I think it would be foolish to trade for Phillips to play 3B because most of his value comes from playing a more difficult defensive position. FWIW, many of us at Red Reporter aren’t yet convinced that Phillips couldn’t be an average defensive SS. There is a large contingent that has been asking for that for years, but we don’t get out of our mom’s basement enough to really know the difference.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 17, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the input

if it’s salary relief he wants, perhaps Jockety would consider trading Rolen and a prospect for Encarnacion. : P

by ayjackson on Nov 17, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand why fans automatically think that if a guy has a good year he needs to be trade bait? Hill may not live up to another 36 HR 100+ RBI season, but at 20 HR, 75 RBI, and with his defence he is still a great player to have at 2nd base for the Jays for years to come. I believe he’s signed until 2014 or something, and at a very reasonable rate for a good to great middle infielder. That would be a mistake in my opinion, no matter what we get in return.

by jonnybluejay on Nov 16, 2009 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

no matter what?

Even if the Rays offer Evan Longoria?

by Woodman663 on Nov 17, 2009 7:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...sorta

Look at his OBP though. MUCH lower than a guy who could be projected to get anywhere near those numbers again.

My point is that with the Jays nowhere near competing, and with a player who’s value will never, ever, ever be higher, it makes sense to maximize that asset. You suggest that he could hit 20 HR with 75 RBI. Quite possible. But Hudson could be signed to play equivalent, if not better defence, and could probably replace at least 10 of those HR, and a good chunk of the RBI. And that doesn’t include the haul you get from trading Hill – which could be used to fill our SS, C, CF and SP holes (or at least some of them).

It’s worth considering, if nothing else, I think.

by Jevant on Nov 17, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would never say anyone can't be traded

If you figure you can get sometime more value than you are giving up it is a good thing. Hill would have a ton of trade value.

by Tom Dakers on Nov 17, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

Don’t get me wrong – Hill is awesome. One of the few reasons to be optimistic. But if he can be turned into 3 or 4 reasons to be optimistic…I think it has to be considered.

by Jevant on Nov 17, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly Tom, NOBODY is above trading for a good deal, but at his current salary, the Jays are would be hard-pressed to do better than Hill

the probability of getting a “good” deal for Hill is not that high since he is already a good deal for the Jays

by aagoodfella on Nov 17, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagreed, sorta

What about the Mets? Huge hole at 2B. Need star power. Often prone to overpaying for the players they want.

Dodgers. Huge hole at 2B. Have the prospects and the young, MLB-ready talent.

White Sox. Hole at 2B. Kenny Williams likes to deal, and likes to make dumb moves like take Rios.

That’s 3 off the top of my head. Not saying that we have to trade Hill, but this team is at least 3 solid player-development years away from contending, and Hill’s value will be lower by then. And dealing him now might speed up the process.

Nobody, absolutely nobody, should be off the table.

by Jevant on Nov 17, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And doing better than Hill really isn't the point

Sure, the Jays would be taking a hit. But upgrading at 3 other spots (like C, SS, CF or RF…where it is looking more and more like we are going to start a replacement level player) would make the lineup significantly deeper.

by Jevant on Nov 17, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs