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The Case for Not Giving Up on a Season

I wanted to point out a story on SI.com by Sky Andrecheck. He talks about teams, like the Jays, that have decided they won't compete this year, so they say they won't spend in the free agent market. He wonders, like I wonder, if it is really a good idea. He points out that the Jays were above .500 for the three years before this past year, when every starting pitcher was hurt, their two best offensive players from the year before tanked and they still scored more runs than they allowed. 

He says out that .500 teams can sometimes get lucky and win 90+ games, just as better teams can get unlucky and lose more than they should.

I'll just pull a couple of bits out from his story.

Frugality on the free-agent market may be penny-wise, but it can often be pound-foolish. In a perfect world it would be wonderful to time a roster so that the current team matures at the exact moment when the ideal free agents are out there and ready to be signed. A young nucleus which is capable of winning 80 games on its own could be fortified with four or five free agents who could collectively be signed for $50-$60 million per year. The players would perform to expectations and the team would become a moderately priced contender. In reality, though, that rarely happens. Players don't develop exactly as predicted, and injuries can wreak havoc with even the most smartly constructed rosters.    

This is something I believe, Alex Anthopoulos keeps saying he's going to pull a time to contend, but it is a lot easier to say you are going to do that, than it is to actually do it. Maybe you put together the team you think is going to do it and your second baseman and your gritty shortstop collide and you lose your second baseman for the year. And a couple of your starting pitchers get hurt. Maybe a player or two don't develop as quick as you hope they will. So you might be playing for a hoped for season in the future that doesn't actually turn out.

The other problem with the wait-and-rebuild approach is its effect on attendance and fan morale during the down years. While everyone's ultimate goal is a championship, there is value in winning games even if a team isn't going to be a World Series contender. An analysis of attendance and winning percentages will show that each win boosts attendance by about 500 fans per game. Signing a few free agents to go from 70 to 80 wins might not produce a pennant, but it will help at the gate, paying off at least a portion of those players' salaries. As anyone who has followed a 70-win team can tell you, those extra 10 wins sure make it easier to continue following a bad ball club. By spending at least enough to put a competitive team on the field, a team can avoid seeing its fan base erode due to years of poor performance, as has happened in places such as Pittsburgh.    

I think we can easily emphasize with this, last year the season started out great and we were, foolishly as it turned out, full of enthusiasm. Then the season turned and it was tough to watch games. Attendance dropped to record lows. Life was not fun. And we still won 75 games. What would happen to attendance if we only won 60 games.

It's easy to say that people will come back to the stadium if, after a couple of years, the team starts winning, but would they? The Tampa Bay Rays started their major league life in 1998 drawing 2.5 million people to the park. 8 mind crushingly bad seasons pass and they finally put together a good team (it helps to have the first draft pick, year after year) and make the playoffs. Attendance the year they make the playoffs? 1.8 million. When you are thought of as a loser it takes fans awhile to catch on when you become a winner. 

What would happen to the Jay's attendance if we lost 100 games next year? I think we'd struggle to get to 1 million paid customers. How likely would it be that Rogers would put money into the team if we did that for a couple of years?

Fortunately I don't think it will be that bad. As must as AA said he wouldn't get into the free agent market, he did sign Alex Gonzalez and John Buck. Not great players but it could have been worse, we could have gotten Jason Kendall and Yuniesky Betancourt. Can you imagine how depressed we'd be if that happened. And I'd imagine there will be more moves. We do have a bunch of good young pitchers, many of whom gained some major league experience last year. I don't think it is too far fetched to think we could be around .500.

But then why not try for better, being good next season doesn't mean we can't be good in future seasons. Baseball isn't an either/or thing. There is no rule that says we can't build our farm system for the future while trying to build the best team we can today.  

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There is no rule that says we can’t build our farm system for the future while trying to build the best team we can today.

I think the missing piece here is ‘withen limits’. Agree or disagree, I think that Anthopoulos hasn’t given up on the season as much as he’s given himself a tight framework to work withen. Signing mid-tier free agents like a Mike Cameron don’t fit into that framework. He wants low cost, low risk free agents who have the potential to have a big season, but also are no obstacle to being released or sent down if someone has a breakout season in the minors or he pulls a trade that brings some pieces he covets.

Are Gathright, Buck, and Gonzalez anything to get excited about? A world of no, but you’re not going to be wincing that much either. Each is a quality role player in their own right, and used properly, brings cheap value. If they can’t do the job, it costs nothing to replace them. It does bring up a very interesting consideration as well. By going this route, and assuming he can move Overbay, the Jays have saved a considerable amount of money from the expected payroll between 2008 & 2009. Going into the 2010 post season, the Jays will have about $35 million tied up in contracts. That’s it.

Assuming this really is the shakeout year, and assuming that’s when Anthopoulos goes to the well and says ‘Beest, now I need the money’, the Jays could walk into that offseason with $80m or so to drop on the free agent market to plug those holes that this year will identify. So that’s a big whack of change to walk into a free agent market absolutely studded with star players.

by dexfarkin on Dec 14, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

yeah...and if we have 10,000 or less fans a game this year....

what are the odds of Rogers giving money for free agents and what are the odds free agents would want to come to Toronto….

by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Rogers didn’t get where they are by being utterly inept, and I seriously doubt this team is going to be bad enough to earn that kind of regression. I think the more appropriate question is if you get them to add an extra $15-$20m this year and we have 10,000 or less fans a game, are they going to bother taking another shot the next year? I mean, seriously, if this franchise is expected to draw under 50% next year than it did this year, it’s dead and gone in Expos territory already.

I don’t believe any of that for a second though. Unless Rogers is dumping the team, they have a direct and vested financial interest in a quality performance on the field. Free agents will sign where the money is. So I think the ‘sky is falling’ mentality because the so far Jays are doing actually what they said they’d do, which is focus on improving the club through trades and drafting, not free agents this year is being a little reactionary. Yeah, it’s a wasted year and we’re stuck sitting through it and maybe all the fans leave for the more successful franchises in Toronto (which is winnowed down to the High Park Curling Club and TD’s softball team at this point). But I kind of doubt it, and if you believe ten losses is enough to swing the fanbase over 50% in one direction, you would have to accept that 15 more wins will do the same the other way, and that’s what they’re banking on.

by dexfarkin on Dec 14, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with “we’re gonna compete in a couple of years” is that the year that we are supposed to compete doesn’t seem to come for one reason or another. We were told 2010 would be the year. Now that’s been pushed back to 2011 or 2012.

It’s obvious that the Toronto franchise is now suffering from fan fatigue, in which the casual fan no longer really cares about the team. I believe that we have now reached the point where the team will now need several winning years before it can consistently attract 30K a game. One or two months of hot baseball is no longer enough.

The Jays established a tradition of excellence and improvement culminating in the championships. Then they lost their way and they are still looking for the path. I’m hoping that AA can do it but I’m concerned that he’s not fully in charge of things.

by siggian on Dec 14, 2009 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

It might help if they didn't keep telling us every off season that this isn't the year.....

How long as it been since they gave us anything to be excited about in an off season?

by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I’d like to think that if we get lucky, we could have a very good team. It’s not likely to happen but it could.

The problem is that our current moves are low risk, low reward ones that signal our surrender before the season starts. Individually, they have a patina of logic about them but when viewed as a collection, they are a bit puzzling.

(paranoid conspiracy theory)
It’s almost as if there are two different sides running the team with one side signing Johnny Mac and JoBa because it’s known what they bring while the other side decides to let existing free agents go and signs AG 2.0 and Buck to replace them. I don’t know where the Gathright signing fits.
(/paranoid conspiracy theory)

I would have used <> but it seems the site doesn’t handle them in a post

by siggian on Dec 14, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

yep, those are how you identify tags in HTML

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I know that but I don’t know how to escape them so that they show up in my posts. I was just trying to have a little XML-styled fun.

BTW, I know I asked this before, but how do you get the blue quote area in your posts?

by siggian on Dec 14, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

there are blue quotation marks in the Post a Comment window...

highlight the part you want to mark as a quote and click on that.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, just found that. Thanks!

by siggian on Dec 14, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I always wondered but was afraid to ask

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

To answer your question Tom...

…I would say probably the offseason where we acquired Burnett, Ryan, Glaus and Molina. I was almost giddy that offseason.

by Jevant on Dec 14, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

“If they can’t do the job, it costs nothing to replace them.”

The problem is that under Cito, we don’t get rid of them. They keep getting put in the lineup (sometimes even batting cleanup).

I used to be very pro-Cito, believe it or not. But I’ve completely gone the other way now.

by siggian on Dec 14, 2009 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

It is not clear that Cito is focused on winning. He seems to be following other agendas.

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

no no....

don’t decide because Cito believe different things that he doesn’t want to win. That’s just silly. Course he wants to win. He feels using ‘proven players’ is the best chance to win now. He’s always managed the same and it worked, he won two WS rings. If anything he focuses too much on winning. He uses his best relievers in every game the team is ahead because he wants to win this game. He’s not interested in using unproven players because he wants to win now.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Front Office

I was speaking more from the front office standpoint, as opposed to the on field. Although, there’s an interesting point that if we go sink a bunch of cash into good free agents, how do we know Cito won’t misuse them too?

by dexfarkin on Dec 14, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

.500

Gonna be tough to get to .500 without a leadoff hitter!

Maybe Gathright reaches his potential from a few years ago, wins the starting CF job and leadoff spot sliding VDub to RF???? Oh wait I’m living in JP Ricciardi times when all he did was sign these guys hoping to catch lightning in a bottle… :(

by bunner on Dec 14, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

Leadoff hitter?

We need more hitters, period.

Right now, going into the season, we have 2 stars in the lineup (Hill and Lind) and 7 question marks. And some of those question marks are more like “will they be better or worse than the Mench”?

by Jevant on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

well, we have Snider who will hopefully be improving, I would not call him that big a question mark

Wells had an off year, I would not call him that big a question mark

Ruiz can hit, I would not call him that big a question mark

EE was recovering from wrist injury, I would not consider him that big a question mark

Overbay is streaky — that is a known — but he can otherwise hit ok, if they trade him, tis one less question mark

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

?????

He’s a league average hitter already and he’s only 21.

In roughly a half-season of MLB experience, he’s already got his OPS+ up to 101. I agree that he might not have a good season, but the evidence to date is that he can hit big league pitching.

by ayjackson on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

The real question is

Will Cito play him. League average for a young guy isn’t good enough…..

by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Snider on the roster

and not getting played, or stuck in the minors because Cito wouldn’t play him would be a firing offense from Cito. But I don’t see that happening unless Snider really can’t hit a thing

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 14, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

personally, I want to see him in the top 5 of the order -

throw them in the water, that is how you teach them to swim!

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

So by those comments then, you are expecting poor things from Wells and EE, and agree that Overbay is a ?, but are sold on Ruiz?

Wells is a question mark to me because we don’t know if he can be half the player he was in 2006, or if 2007-2009 is representative of long-term Wells. I fear what we see is what we get.

EE – I’ve been a long-time fan, but we really have no idea what he’s likely to put up.

If Ruiz hits better than 280 or more than 20 HR, consider me impressed.

by Jevant on Dec 14, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

no, I expect Wells to improve, remember he was playing reasonably well through May until that road trip to Oakland and he was nursing an injury. The injury has been corrected so I would expect him to improve.

EE was also recovering from a wrist injury, a long process. Before that he showed two strong years, one with high avg and one where he traded off avg for power. I would expect he can mix the two even better next year.

I will guarantee that Ruiz hits over 280 and 20 taters. LOL. No, I cannot do that. But I am confident he can.

In short, I expect big yearr-over-year improvemetns for Wells and EE. Overbay, if the Jays keep him, could have a good year because he has to knuckle down since it is a contract year for him. And, consistent with all my Ruiz-love posts to date, I am BIG TIME sold on Ruiz.

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

This team could still win

V.Wells could bat leadoff……..but to me there are still affordable FA `pieces` out there like Dye and Atkins. Maybe not leadoff but i`m sure we can use someone there. Where`s catalanotto???? lol……to me the bullpen/ closing is more of a need than leadoff

by voidhelix on Dec 14, 2009 1:02 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know, call me crazy... but

I think AA/Beeston have much more faith in what they have on the roster now than most fans do. If the season started tomorrow, without Doc/Overbay…

Bautista RF
Hill 2B
Lind 1B
Ruiz DH
Snider LF
Encarnacion 3B
Wells CF
Gonzalez SS
Buck C

Gathright OF/PR
McDonald UTIL
McCoy UTIL/PR
Chavez C

Romero
Marcum
Rzepcynski
Richmond
Cecil

Frasor
Downs
Accardo
Tallet
Camp
Carlson
Roenicke

(AAA/DL: Janssen, Hoffpauir, Dopirak, Litsch, Purcey, Arencibia etc…)

1. I wish McDonald’s spot could be taken by Dopirak or someone else with a use, as McCoy could be a backup SS at least. Also, I have Snider in the 5-hole, and obviously he would have to perform (but that is where I would put him, and leave him, the guy MASHED AAA last year).

2. There is a ton of power and offensive potential in that lineup. 1-7 hitters could all hit 20+ HR (maybe not Bautista, but he does have some pop and decent OBP).

3. Our rotation looks pretty solid, as long as Marcum- Romero stay healthy and pitch well (big ifs, I know). Rzepcynski is very good, and Cecil could break out BIGTIME.

4. That is a SOLID bullpen.

5. Defence is obviously the big concern with this lineup, but with Gonzalez at SS, Bautista/Gathright at RF and Hill at 2B we should be OK.

6. Add something from a Doc trade, maybe a SP to replace Richmond, and it looks better. Add a decent catcher, and it looks better yet. Add Litsch, Arencibia (McGowan) in July, and we could be looking at a great young team.

Call me crazy, but I see .500+ written all over the 2010 Blue Jays (maybe even 86+ W), and at a very low payroll. Add some money in free agency for 2011, and who knows.

Call me crazy.

by Andy Mc on Dec 14, 2009 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

We aren't bad

but most of the rest of our division is better. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but things would really have to fall apart above us. Don’t forget that if Doc/Lyle are traded, we may well get someone back who can help in 2010 making us even better. If we got someone like Buchholz or Hughes back, for example, they slot right into our 2010 rotation.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

i will call you crazy, and here is why.

Richmond was very bad at end of season last year. I am not convinced he is MLB-caliber any more.

Cecil and Rzep are likely to get pounded a few times, they are young and inexperienced. In any case, none of the guys can play long and I would expect the bull pen to get driven into the ground. 2 years from now Cecil, Rzep and (to a lesser extent) Romero could be strong pitchers. But they are still young and prey for established MLB vets.

by aagoodfella on Dec 14, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't discount good play at the start of the year...

picking out just the stats you want doesn’t give you a good view of a player. Saying a guy is no good because of 2 months is as good as saying a guy is great because of two months. Richmond likely tired, he never pitched that much before. He may not be as good as he was when he got the Rookie Pitcher of the Month award, but might not be as bad as he looked at the end of the year.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

or hitters may have figured him out … at best he is a huuuuuge question mark, IMHO

by aagoodfella on Dec 15, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

That is a 100-loss team right there

in the AL East at least

particularly given Cito’s inept managing

by voodoomusic on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I believe...

no matter what. I have 4 tickets for the Jay’s home opener in April 2010. Go Jays! (oh yeah, I’m a Leaf fan to LOL).

MsC

by Ms_Canuck on Dec 14, 2009 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

A little theory on AA

By saying he is “building” this buys him more years as a GM, in my opinion. If he is building, nobody expects them to contend for say 5 years, during this “building” process. Therefore, the W-L accountability for him is lessened, guaranteeing him more time in the chair. And if he wins before that time, so be it, that buys him more time too.

Otherwise, if he goes in and pushes Rogers for money, etc. to win right away, and he doesn’t, he could be kicked out of the chair more quickly.

Just a random thought. That’s probably what I’d want to do. Longer tenure also = more experience as a big league GM, and therefore more opportunities in the industry after the Jays GM opportunity inevitably ends.

by REMO on Dec 14, 2009 8:11 PM EST reply actions  

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