Wednesday Bantering: Roy Halladay, Arbitration, and Class Moves
The announcement by Roy Halladay's agent didn't go over great with the bloggers:
But seriously dude. This dumb ass comment, which is probably completely untrue, does no one any favours. It handcuffs the Blue Jays, giving key information to the other side of the bargaining table, and makes Halladay look like he's only looking out for his best interests, something that he has never appeared to be, in all of his time in Toronto.
So those deals where the Jays are getting more than the other teams want to give are pretty much off the table. Rid your mind of Buck Holes or Phil Hughes and start thinking Buck Swope or Phil Coke. Stop thinking of a front line player to solve a need, and think of a marginal and flawed guy who's outlived his time in Triple-A. Start thinking in terms of what the Minnesota Twins got back for Johan Santana. Start rehearsing the following sentence: "At least it's not as bad as the Sirotka trade."
You get the idea. And yeah, they are right, anything that limits options hurts us in trying to get the most we can for him.
More after the jump.
Alex Anthopoulos tries to spin it best he can:
"I don't know if it changes you're ability to make a trade one way or the other," he said. "If trades mean they need to occur now or later or a month or two months from now, we'll make those evaluations. This is the offseason. We've got the Winter Meetings coming. It's a time where more and more clubs are talking to one another. Free agency is starting to settle in a little bit more. "Most times when trades do occur, this is the month and the next month that they do end up occurring one way or the other. Apart from that, in the spring you don't see too many deals, other than at the end of the spring when teams are trying to get down to their 25-man [roster]. "We're going to continue with our offseason the way we always planned."
In the MLB.com story about the Jays offering Marco Scutaro and Rod Barajas arbitration there was this:
"We talked to Marco about a deal," Anthopoulos said. "There was a time when we offered a two-year deal. Unfortunately, we couldn't come to terms. Through no fault of his agent or him or ourselves, it was just one of those things where we couldn't come to terms on a value. We would've liked to have had the player back, but there's no question it had to be at the right price for us knowing the opportunity cost.
It will be nice to have more early draft picks, though we have a bunch already, numbers 11, 38, 44, 69 and 75 in the first three rounds. Depending on where Scutaro and Barajas end up, we could have 3 more. The important part is to actually sign the guys you pick.
Alex continues to say the right things:
"Right now, though, my focus isn't necessarily on one season, whether it's 2010, '11 or '12, or whatever it is. It's more an organizational view and on getting this organization back to the point where it's a sustained model and it's a sustained model every year where we're a competitive club."
But then, how often do you hear a GM say 'what we are trying to do here is build a one year wonder, who cares about the future'. It is easy to say we are going to be competitive every year, hard to do.
On the list of people that could shut up, AJ Burnett ranks very high:
"I think it's time for him to get a fresh start," Yankees starter A.J. Burnett told the New York Daily News this week, discussing the future of his friend and former teammate in Toronto. "He's paid his dues there, been the face of the organization, done everything they've asked him to do and more. At this point in his career, I think he just wants to win."
To quote Apu, "Why are you not shutting up?"
To show how much baseball has changed over the years, when I was young the drug of choice was cocaine, then it became steroids, now it is Ritalin. From Rob Neyer's blog:
Baseball granted 108 therapeutic use exemptions for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder during the year ending with this World Series, according to a report released Tuesday by MLB's independent drug-testing administrator. That was up from 106 a year earlier and 103 in 2007.
Who would have thought so many players are ADHD? Or do you think they might believe there is some performance enhancing quality to the drug?
For anyone that was hoping the Jays might sign Billy Wagner, the Braves signed him to a one-year $7 million contract with a vesting option for a second year. $7 million sounds like a lot to me for a guy that has thrown 62 innings in the past two years. Teams still love to overpay for that 'closer' tag.
And to end with the best baseball story you'll read in a while, the Angels voted Nick Adenhart (or more correctly his estate) a full playoff share. Very classy.
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we also get a third round compensation pick
for missing out on Barrett. So that’s 9 total if Scutaro and Barajas sign elsewhere.
From the rich getting richer files, Boston seems lined up to get Atlanta’s 20th overall draft pick as they’re poised to sign Wagner.
by ayjackson on Dec 2, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Comments do not hurt Jays
Some folks are belly-aching that comments from Halladay’s camp will adversely affect the Jay’s ability to trade. I disagree.
Think about if for a second. Obviously there is a market for Roy. He is one of, if not the, best pitchers in baseball. He is disciplined, hard-working, a student of the game, even his off outings are good. In terms of reliability, he is a rock. He brings no, ZERO, baggage to the team. He is the epitome of professionalism. If I could sign a team of Roy Halladays, I would do it in a heartbeat.
So now, some folks think that limiting the trade window to off-season reduces the Jays’ bargaiging power. I disagree. Teams are not negotiating with the Jays. This is not a two party negotation. This is a negotiation between Roy and other teams, with the Jays as a potential lucky beneficiary.
Let’s consider a hypthetical discussion between AA of the Jays and Theo Epstein of the BoSox:
Theo “Hey. I hear Roy will veto any deal after the offseason. This kind of puts you in an awkward situation doesn’t it?”
AA “What, you think you are negotiating with us? This is essentially, free agency for Roy, with a risk-free option for the Toronto Blue Jays. Our floor value is set. No matter what, we get another year of Roy and draft compensation if he leaves after 2010. We have no reason to trade for anything less. You are negotiating with Roy and competing against other deep pocket teams including potentially the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies and Angels among others. If you want to win that negotiation, you have to make Roy the best offer and make us the best offer. So here is what we consider minimally acceptable from you (whatever AA sets). We have made comparable requests from other teams interested in Roy. If you can come to terms with Roy and at least satisfy our list, than you may be the lucky beneficiary of one of baseball’s best. However, if someone else can come to terms with Roy and beats your offer to us, than we will go a different direction. I am sure you can understand our position. Alternatively, you can wait on the sidelines and hope Roy is on the market in 2010 but that is not the direction circumstances are currently moving. Moreover, there is also the risk that Halladay winds up at either a divisional or playoff rival which could even more adversely impact your onfield competitive standing. Bottom line, is that I expect that if Roy is to be moved, it will be for value greater than the minimums we have outlined. In any case, I am not trying to be difficult, I am just want to point out the risks and opportunities to your and other teams as we see them now. Please let us know if you have any inquires to which we can respond. We will endeavour to accommodate.” (I think this discussion is equally applicable to other teams).
Bottom line, at least from my perspective, is that Roy has just given the Jays a risk-free option on a potential better deal than straight free agency offers.
While a Jay, Roy pitched fantastic. As a Jay (most likely) moving to another team, Roy has given the Jays a chance to better benefit the organization than straight free agent compensation. In short, while a Jay Roy has played way better than average and as a departing free agent, he is exiting in a manner that benefits the Jays more than average. As such, even if he is wearing pinstripes next year, Jays fans have nothing to say but THANKS.
by aagoodfella on Dec 2, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I guess this is one of those Doc is a hero he can do no wrong things.
But one of the few bits of leverage the Jays have is the ability to say ‘ok, well maybe you’ll be offering more at the trade deadline’. The ability to walk away from the negotiating table is one of the best bits of leverage the team has. Or had.
It is funny JP is beat up for saying ‘he would listen to trade offers’. But then he was disliked.
by Tom Dakers on Dec 2, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At thispoint the Jays are almost incidental bystanders to the discussion. The situation as become an open auction with a floor for the Jay. As long as any team meets the floor, the Jays move Roy. But if more than one team meets the floor, it is essentially a competitive auction process.
Teams seeking to sign Roy face as great a risk as the Jays. Afterall, if they do not snag Roy now, he is very likely to get picked up by another team, in fact perhaps more likely with the deadline. Their situation is not improved by the deadline introduced by the Halladay camp deadline.
by aagoodfella on Dec 2, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why would offers be better at the deadline?
this is the best time to trade doc, demand for his services is greatest now, that means leverage is greatest now.
there’ll be no chance for an extension window at the deadline, meaning Doc will be strictly a rental, then a Yankee at year’s end. Right now, there’s teams we don’t even know about that think they have a chance at Doc. Maybe a Colorado, Milaukee or SF or Seattle. Doc’s agent said they’ll evaluate each team at the time, so nobody should be ruled completely out.
I really don’t give a rat’s ass about Doc, but I don’t see this hurting our leverage. I think if anything, it helps it. It brings certainty to the auction timeline.
by ayjackson on Dec 2, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re: Scutaro
I wonder how much they were willing to offer him, considering that they’ve locked up Mac for 2yr/3M and Gonzalez for 1yr/2.75M. I really hope AA would have added the 3M that they’re giving Mac to whatever the contract would have been for Scoot.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
by jessef on Dec 2, 2009 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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