Marco Scutaro Signs With Red Sox.
by Tom Dakers on Dec 3, 2009 11:26 PM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays News
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PrintWell this makes me sad, even though I knew it was coming, I really liked Macro. He seemed to have a lot of fun playing the game. I guess we'll all always remember him taking second base on the walk. I liked watching him kiss his bat after a home run or hug his teammates when they hit homers. Before the season I wasn't thrilled with the idea of Marco leading off, but he sure took to the job. He took a lot of pitches and let his teammates see what the pitcher had that game.
Apparently he is getting a two year contract with a mutual option for a third year. Sounds like a good deal for both parties, though not sure what the dollars will be yet. Good news for us is that we should be getting 2 draft picks from the Red Sox, provided the Sox don't do something silly like sign Matt Holliday.
The Red Sox really needed a good shortstop and have done well picking Scoot. I like him a lot and will wish him the best, but I can't cheer for him anymore if he's going to be a member of the Red Sox. I hope being around those jerks doesn't turn him into one himself.
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Because he's a hated Red Sox now
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Do we boo all Red Sox, as a matter of practice?
I apparently missed that when attending the Jays games I did last year. It was silent as a tomb.
I hope Scutaro gets a standing O the first time he plays in Toronto this year.
We should
the fact that we don’t probably contributes to our lack of home field advantage.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
i think booing former players is like school on a saturday - no class - LOL, thx Fat Albert
I will not boo Vespa
that said, booing AJ Burnett on his first return to the Jays was one of the funnest games I have ever been to!
I understand booing someone like Clemens or Wells
who didn’t like playing for the Jays, but booing Frank Catalanotto? Why?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Marco Scutaro Rocks
Oh well, he deserves to play with a contender team. He’s better than Gonzalez, Anthopoulos is more stupid than JP. My jays suck.
Terms on Scutaro:
$1MM signing bonus, $5MM in 2010, $5MM in 2011, and a 2012 option with a $6MM club option, $3MM player option, and $1.5MM buyout.
Good for Marco
3 yrs/$14m is about exactly what he should have been offered. It will suck seeing him in a Bosox outfit, but he deserves the payoff.
Instead of resigning Johnny Mac and signing Alex G
Why didn’t we just pay Marco? I don’t see any dropoff defensivly and his is WAY better offensivly.
Another head scratcher.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 4, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
They want the picks...also as good as Scoots was last season, he was never as good as he was last year. So 14 mil for 3 years is gamble for a player that had one great year in his career.
and yes I know that J mac and AG’s contracts equal what scoots is getting…but the picks have more to do with it then anything else. IMO
Remember when management said "Wait till 2010??"
I miss those days.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 4, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
The picks are only worth it if Boston doesn't sign a higher type A
and we’d have to take one of those signability gus, and we’d actually have to sign him.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
He's a bargain at what the Sox are paying
Yeah he had a good year last year, but at a 4.4 WAR his value was $17 million. And his WAR was higher before he tried to keep playing on a sore heel. Odds of a 29th draft pick (if the Sox don’t sign someone else) and a sandwich pick being better than that are scoot are slim. And with the Jays likely to have 9 picks in the first 3 rounds, odds of signing them all are slim too.
don't forget Scoot doesn't have to hit like he did in 2009
to be well worth $5-6 million.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Best case scenario = They sign all 9 picks
This still puts us 3-4 years away from fielding a competitive team.
Assuming Vernon and Snider have marginally better years and Lind and Hill take a small step back, where is the offense coming from? Maybe the Doc trade. I dunno.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 4, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
“Odds of a 29th draft pick (if the Sox don’t sign someone else) and a sandwich pick being better than that are scoot are slim”
That totally depends on how we draft/scout. We could get a really good player with those picks . You cant say those picks wont be better (unless your psychic). But seeing as Marco wont be getting any better then last year. Ill take a shot at developing younger guys rather then hoping an older one has another career year.
I can say odds are slim
because odds are slim. In drafting the top 12 picks do far better than the rest. Yeah we could scout good and get lucky, but then all teams scout. Just cause we hired a few scouts now doesn’t mean we are miracle workers. Don’t totally drink the Kool-Aid, we are just up to an average number of scouts now.
Take a look through the drafts and see how many 29th picks ever become good players.
At the same point, while the odds are slim, the farm systems are hardly static; prospects mean trade flexibility, a greater potential reward, and controlled costs. So it’s not as simple as ‘will this guy be able to help us in 3-4 years’, when it could be ’can this guy help us in 2012 as part of a package for the guy that we want, etc.
Not Really
The prospects combined with the financial flexibility makes Gonzo/JMac a far more intelligent signing based on AA’s current plans not to contend for next year.
This team can't afford to go through a 100 loss season
Even if they compete in 2011 or 2012, the fans won’t show up. Bluejays fans are not like Leaf fans…they won’t show up to watch a shitty team and at the end of the day this will affect revenue which in turn affects payroll. Its a vicious circle
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 4, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I have my doubts...
That this team is looking at a 100 loss season, or even if we were, that Scutaro would be enough to stem the tide. Not that I agree, but AA has already given up 2010, which means signing a guy on a multiyear contract who will be well into the decline phase by the time you even have a shot at competing makes a lot less sense than signing a one year SS who can be moved at the deadline, a defensive first utility player, and picking up the prospect in the draft.
It is about managed risk; for the same amount as one year of Scutaro’s contract plus signing bonus, the Jays have 2 years of SS filled with flexible pieces and get another pick which has a chance to turn into something. That means your potential rewards are higher, and your overall risk is lower.
somehow, I have my doubts that Scutaro is the key difference between the Jays making the playoffs or not
well if that is your line on signing players...
get rid of them all…no one player can get us to the playoffs. And get rid of draft picks. No one or two or four draft picks can get us to the playoffs.
This is apparently the off season in which Jays fans can only talk in extremes.
The reality is that two years and an option at about $14m does not represent anything of particular value to the team, since his inclusion does nothing more to help our actual goal of playoff contention in a few years than his exclusion does. Draft picks have the outside shot of maybe doing so, or being able to be moved as part of the process in acquiring pieces that do so. Adding Marco doesn’t get us to the playoffs, and not adding Marco doesn’t keep us from the playoffs. So where’s the main value? Does anyone think that he will represent a vital cog in 2012 when we might get our first outside shot?
It’s as simple as that. Are we contending in 2010? AA says no. I disagree with his decision, but if that’s the choice, than marginal draft picks and young trades represent a better opportunity to try and improve the team past this year than the investment in Scutaro.
Scutaro plus Mike Cameron plus small improvement over Overbay
(such as not being so vulnerable to LOOGYs) plus average luck is a 90 win season. Not adding Marco does keep up from the playoffs because even if average-luck 90 isn’t enough to guarantee a playoff spot, it’s got way better odds than the average-luck 81 we have under contract now, and way better odds than we’ll have for the next five years if we let the Yankees or Red Sox buy Halladay.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
However, since the Jays aren’t signing Cameron, and likely not picking up a bat for Overbay’s position, isn’t this a moot point? AA has tossed 2010 out the window; he’s not planning to sign any more free agents (which I don’t entirely believe, but I don’t think means a mid-range guy like Cameron), and he’s looking for youth in trades and compiling free agents. With assuming those two statements are true and the operational guidelines for the Jays in this off season, does signing Scutaro make sense?
I know, I personally think the Jays could have an outside shot by adding Cameron, trading for Doumit, picking up an impact bat like Delgado and a rehab risk like Harden or Sheets, and making a run next year. But that isn’t happening, so arguing that they make moves based around that plan makes no sense.
I'll admit I hate this constant refrain
“we aren’t going to win this year so why care who they sign”. I’m a fan, of course I care who they sign. The team should try to make itself better always. it is a terrible message to the fans that we don’t care about the product on the field. Last year they said ‘we don’t contend this year but wait till 2010’. This year ‘we won’t contend this or the one after. At what point will people give up on them?
Why not say ‘we are building, but while doing that we’ll put the best product we can on the field’. Can you imagine MacDonalds saying ‘we are going to have great food in 3 years’.
we aren’t going to win this year so why care who they sign
I’ve never said this and that isn’t the argument. The argument is ‘we aren’t going to win this year, so why sign someone who’s only value to the organization is if we’re in the position to win this year or the next?’. The upside to letting Scutaro walk is that we get a couple of picks that have a potential long term value. The upside of keeping him is better offense for two years. Which one is worth more to the long term vision of the Jays?
Again, I really think people are going to extremes because they’re unhappy. We all accepted the bitter pill that 2009 was the year to be patient because 2010 would be the year. Now, 2011 being the year is overly optimistic. It sucks pretty badly.
But, since we know that, making moves that potentially cost us chances to be ready in 2012 to be fractionally better now don’t make sense. Two picks, no matter how slim their potential, are worth more to us for 2012 than Marco Scutaro is in 2010. It blows, but how the Jays are proceeding, that’s the truth.
right
I think there are actually two separate things at issue. I very much agree with Tom and some others that it is a ridiculous attitude for fans to say “well, Mike Cameron/Scoot/whoever isn’t going to make the difference of getting into the playoffs so let’s not sign him.” As a fan, you want your team to maximize the talent on the field to the extent that it doesn’t negatively impact the team’s long term chances. And that’s the thing with Scoot – the issue isn’t whether Scoot will get us into the playoffs or not. That doesn’t tell you anything.
The question is, given where the Jays 2010 team is stacking up, is it better to improve the 2010 and 2011 teams with Vespa, or is it better to take the draft picks (I think it’s pretty unlikely Scoot nets us a first-rounder because the Sox will probably sign someone else, but say a comp rounder and a 2nd rounder), use the money to sign them this time, and build for the future? I think reasonable people can disagree about this. On one hand, you’ve got Doc’s last season, a solid young pitching staff (though not without its question marks), and a position roster made up of a mix of younger and older players. On the other hand, you have a team that didn’t compete in 2009 and has lost some pieces of that team with lesser/younger replacements, not to mention a team looking to unload Halladay if they can.
I think the Jays made a sensible choice. Draft picks aren’t a sure thing by any means, but the more of them you have, the more good risks you can take, the more you can mix high upside and more polished but lower upside players, and the more chance you have of them paying off. Sure, the picks the Jays get from Scoot may not pan out, and even probably won’t. But the added comfort the extra picks bring may allow the Jays to draft a real difference-maker with one of the other picks.
That picks aren’t a sure thing isn’t a reason to want less of them – if anything, it’s a reason to want more, because if the Jays are going to build a winner, it’s going to be in large part through the draft, one way or another.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I agree
Plus, while the end goal is obviously a WS, I don’t want to forgo all signings and trades and other aquisitions just because it won’t lead to the WS. I still plan on watching 150-160 games and if they field a terrible team, its going to lead to my apathy. Call me a bandwagon jumper or whatever, but fandom is a two-way street. I’ll stick with you during the low times, but if you tell me you have no interest in competing, why should I support you?
Plus if they are planning on competing in a couple years, good luck signing high tallent/high price FA’s. Unless you overpay a rediculous amount, noone wants to go to a loser, and Toronto already has a problem attracting tallent, since they are in CAnada.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 4, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm arguing that they should have that plan
then making moves based around that plan would make perfect sense.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
HOLY CRAP
I`ve never seen so much negativity on a sports blog in all my life!!! This Jays team still has a great core of young players, we still have solid defense and starting pitching too. Yes we`ll lose Doc and Scooter had ONE good year with us but if you think a guy with a career year at his age can replicate consistently then ur a guy who obviously forgot Vernon Wells pretty quickly. We save money, get a player of equal value and potentially draft value to boot.
Yes we might not draft the next Albert Pujols next year but that`s not the point! Our farm system is really slim. We need elite prospects and like it or not 1st round picks are regarded as such in potential trades. You guys can keep complaining but i`m gonna stay optimistic.
It negative to think the team should sign the best possible players?
that they should try to compete each year? Ok cool…..and course Scoot had 2 very good years with us.
im personally happy to see scutaro leave, I know defensive ratings may not support this but i dont think scutaro is suited to be an every day shortstop. Dont get me wrong, he is an extremely skilled defensive player with an excellent glove but i dont think he has the range to play short every day. Sure Scutaro is a guarantee to make a play if he can get his glove on it because it is really steady. But i noticed, mostly towards the end of the season, that he was letting alot of balls through, and his glove work was also getting a little sloppier than usual. Now this could have for a lot reasons im sure injuries could have had an effect on his play towards the end of the season. especially when you consider his turf toe injury that shut him down for the season in september. Now im not bashing scutaro because i dont like him, hes been one of my favourite blue jays the last two years and one of our most consistent contributors during this time but I see as more of a utility type player or even a more effective 3 bagger… Or maybe im just crazy cause it seems like im the only one around here who isnt in love with scutaro
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