Halladay = "Boatload"

by bunner on May 4, 2009 9:40 AM EDT Comment 14 comments

I think our beloved JP has changed his stance on this topic a few times. When asked a few months ago about trading Halladay he said absolutely no way, no how would he be dealt. Then during spring training he said he didn't want to but if he was forced to he would listen. Now he's saying he'd want a "boatload" in return.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/05/02/jays.halladay/

"If we ever did get to that point,'' the GM added, "we'd want a boatload. And I don't know whether anyone would offer a boatload. But obviously, we're not at that point.''

Now, I highly doubt (even if they fall out of the race in the AL East or Wild Card) that Doc will be traded this year. Now, in some alternate universe if he were to be traded whom do you think he'd be traded to and what would the Jays get in return for him?

My feelings would be that he cannot be dealt within the AL East, and possibly not even to another AL team. Which takes out the Yankees and Red Sox though they have a ton of players that could interest/help the Jays. The Dodgers are another obvious fit because of their top quality young players (Kemp/Kershaw) and prospect depth.

A darkhorse candidate: The Atlanta Braves (Yunel Escobar, Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward and a 1B prospect like Freddie Freeman). Braves have been lacking an Ace since Maddux/Glavine days...adding Doc instantly makes them a favourite in the NL East once again.

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I can't imagine he will be dealt

until, at the earliest, the 2010 trade deadline. And that would only be if the Jays were out of the race and failed in their attempt to resign him, which I think they will try to do this offseason.

I think you should always be willing, in theory, to trade anyone given the right return. That said, I can’t imagine the Jays getting full return for Doc. No one is going to give up what it would take to get him, some combination of young cost-controlled star players and top prospects.

Personally, I want him resigned. There’s no other pitcher I can think of where I’d want to give market value for the pitchers’ mid 30s seasons, but Doc is one I would get in on. And with the Jays group of good young starters, there’s no one better to lead the rotation into the playoffs and beyond than Halladay

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on May 4, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That Atlanta trade you propose would be awesome

I’d so do it, if I had the chance.

Of course, someone in Fantasy ball might do that, but there is no way Atl would trade Jason Heyward, possibly the best OF prospect in all of baseball, and Tommy Hanson, arguably the best pitching prospect in all of baseball in the same deal. I could be wrong, but maybe a smaller deal could be reached. Like Freeman and Hanson and maybe some other bit parts for him. Then you ask, is that fair value? I guess that is debatable.

I think I’d rather keep him until such time as we can’t resign him, and then you see what you can get. Roy has been so good to the Blue Jays, I can’t see him being a difficult sign when his contract does come due, as long as the offer is competitive. I’d love for him to be Blue Jay for his entire career.

We don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin

by solace on May 4, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I want Doc to be a Jay for life, but if the Jays can’t offer him a chance to be competitive then he may not want to re-sign here no matter how good the offer is. I’m not 100% sure but it could be a situation like the Leafs faced with Sundin, he didn’t want to leave but his quest to win the cup made him go…

by bunner on May 4, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I’ve seen nothing that has suggested that he doesn’t want to be a Blue Jay at all. If he does want to leave, he has earned it, but especially with how competitive this team looks already (particularly with Janssen, Litsch and Romero coming back over the next few weeks), why would we even consider ushering him out the door?

"The NY Mets are my favorite squadron" -- Apu Nahasapeemapetilon

by jessef on May 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Terrible thought

Sigh, I hate the thought of losing Halladay. He is the foundation of the Jays starting order. Not only are his outings strong, but in so leading, he provides a great example to others coming up. I would really really really hate to lose him.

But alas, if he is reluctant to re-sign, than it might be necessary to trade him. Sometimes these things have to be done. Afterall, when the Jays had to move Tony Fernandez (which really really hurt) in a trade that brought Alomar, that may have been the final piece leading to the World Series.

Most definitely, the first choice is to sign Halladay through his career. And the best way to keep him, is to win the Series this year! To coin a phrase from Joe Swanson of Family Guy “Let’s do it!”

by aagoodfella on May 4, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't like to speculate that he is reluctant to resign without anyway proof

I think he’ll be a Jay for a long time.

by Tom Dakers on May 4, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again I wouldnt want Doc to leave Toronto and think re-signing him should be easy provided they offer a fair respectful deal, considering the willingness hes shown to re-sign and stay in Toronto.
However if he was to be traded were talking about a top 2 if not #1 pitcher in baseball so I would expect a premium to be given to Toronto for him.
Theres a lot of talk on MLB trade rumours about a potential LA deal…in which case I would expect a haul of Kershaw/Kemp & Loney & DeWitt with a few prospects thrown in.
I dont doubt that Boston also have the prospects to get it done(Masterson, Bucholz, Andersen & Ellsbury?) but trading within the AL East would be foolish.
Maybe Texas, Baltimore, Oakland, or indeed Atlanta.
You would have to be getting two young all star calliber players along with a few prospects in return otherwise it simply isnt worth it.

This isnt like the Twins Santana deal where they have to trade the player.

by Ohpityme on May 5, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

everybody gets dealt at some point........and money is the carrot especially after a player gets older and his playing time is shortened...

I was at the “A,s”…..game last nite and I observed 2 things ….first off california fans really dont think outside the box,comments were thrown around prior to the game that the jays winning capabilities are only evident “because they have played anyone important as of yet”………well some minds changed after the 13-1 POUNDING!!! …they experienced……BUT I DID SEE halladay put men on 1st and 2nd with no men out on more than one occasion…..4 or 5 innings …….hes not going to get away with this type of play all the time and these werent walks……….hes beatable more than he was before and the only saving grace I saw was BLUE JAY hitting is unbelievable …..every man on the roster last nite not only got a hit but scored a run.This years team is a pitchers dream.

by afansinceexhibitionstadium on May 7, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hmm

Halladay allowed six hits and two walks over 8 innings.

a. His walk in the 7th was on a 3-2 pitch that should have been a strikeout, I’m not sure what the umpire saw on that pitch, but it was definitely a strike on television, so we’ll eliminate that walk, which brings Halladay to seven baserunners over 8 innings, at least three of which, I believe, were in the eighth inning. We’re now down to five baserunners over the first seven innings.
a. How could have allowed two men on in three or four of those innings?
b. I would rather see Halladay give up a bunch of singles than walk a bunch of guys. He currently has a 44:7 (6.3:1) K:BB ratio and a 3.48 FIP (3.29 ERA). I don’t see him as any more hittable now than he’s been in the past. His groundball rate is just as good as ever (>50%) and he’s actually induced more pop-ups than normal (an unreal 18.4%). How has he been more hittable this year than in the past?

"The NY Mets are my favorite squadron" -- Apu Nahasapeemapetilon

by jessef on May 7, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Add in that yesterday with a big lead he was pitching to contact more

The man’s 6-1 at this point so if he is beatable he’s hiding it well. No he hasn’t thrown a no-hitter yet this year. But then I’m not sure who has. He’s a guy that gives us 7 or 8 innings almost every time out there. If 8 innings and 1 run against doesn’t impress you then I guess the offense is the ‘only saving grace’. But I’ll take it.

The umpire had a very small strike zone last night. Doc lost a few pitches last night. I wasn’t surprised when Speier blew up, when you saw the look on his face after a pretty perfect pitch was called a ball when if he was a strike it would have gotten him out of the inning, then after that we got 5 runs, I knew he wasn’t going to leave without making a point to the umpire.

by Tom Dakers on May 7, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

analyzing the schedule

So far this season, Jays’ opponents have a combined win record of 0.476, 3 of 20 matchups of which are from the AL East.

Here is a break down of the combined win rates of Jays opponents by month (based on standings as of 5-6-09):

April combined win rate of 0.494, no AL East matchups
May combined win rate of 0.468, 15 of 29 are AL East matchups
June combined win rate of 0.505, 2 of 27 are AL East matchups
July combined win rate of 0.466, 17 of 24 are AL East matchups
August combined win rate of 0.485, 20 of 26 are AL East matchups
September combined win rate of 0.496, 15 of 29 are AL East matchups
October combined win rate of 0.393, 3 of 3 are AL East matchups

Year-to-date combined win rate of 0.476, 3 of 30 are AL East matchups
Full season combined win rate of 0.484, 72 of 162 are AL East matchups

by aagoodfella on May 7, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

more interesting to do the opponents records minus the games against the Jays....

by Tom Dakers on May 7, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and much more work.

while we’re on a somewhat relevant topic, i want to toss out that Greinke’s ERA+ is 1168 (Downs’ is 797).

by boo15749 on May 8, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spring training comments

am i the only one who recalls Doc saying something along the lines of “as you get older, you realize you dont have many chances to win a championship” when asked before the seaon about his future? i dont remember the exact comment but i remember thinking the odds of Doc being a Jay in 2011 looking slim.

In any case i doubt anyone would blame him for walking after taking a home town discount to watch ricciardi go out and spend that money on overpriced veterans.

Personally i think only a playoff appearance this year keeps him in Toronto.

by ucantcoachthat on May 18, 2009 12:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs