TIME TO MOVE ON TO 2010
by valter on Jul 12, 2009 11:45 PM EDT
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After such a fiery start, it's been very dissapointing watch the Toronto Blue Jays nearly hit "rock bottom" at the allstar break.
Sure the starting rotation has been depleted with injuries, but it's been the offense which has let down this club, especially after a rocketing first six weeks into the season. During that time, the Jays were knocking the cover off the baseball, including driving in runs in key situations and winning games in late stages of the game.
Vernon Wells and Alex Rios, clearly have become the worst performers for the team this year. Wells is amongst the top of all major leaguers with the worst batting average batting with men in scoring position.While Rios, after signing a big contract extension last year, appears to have dropped a level lower from the solid year he had two years ago..
Marco Scutaro is having the best year of his major league career so far, but at 34 years of age it's not known how much fuel he has left in the tank...We need to start shopping for highly touted young shortstop...
Rod Barrajas and Chavez have been adequate in their catching post so far this year, but they are also in their mid 30's and expecting more from these career backups to perform at higher level, is not going to happen...they need to start shopping for young prospect to fill this position as well..
Brandon League has been given the opportunity to many times and failed horribly to prove he can pitch at the major league level, he has to go...Shawn Camp and Dirk Heyhurst are solid Triple AAA pitchers the most and should not be with this club, Jesse Carlson perhaps with some reassignment he can reobtain the magic he showed last year.. Toronto should seriously give Fabio Castro a chance to pitch this year at the major league level, he can't do worse than Brandon League has this year...
Cito Gaston:It was great winning back-to-back World Series Championships in the early 90's, but times have changed and perhaps it's also caught up with Cito Gaston and his old style managing philosophies as well. There's no life in the Blue Jays this year, they are agressive at the plate all right, but the results at the allstar break this year prove one important point, the Blue Jays record this year is no better than to when John Gibbons was manager last year..
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Why not salvage it?
Scott Rolen, Marco Scutaro, and Lyle Overbay are all having superb years. However, they are all on the wrong side of 30, and we can’t expect them to produce like this next year. Why not send one or a couple of these guys out to a contending team with a hole? Get a couple solid hitting prospects and rebuild our minor league teams. That is what I would do anyways.
not scutaro
Scutaro will bring us two top 40 picks in next year’s draft if he leaves in free agency. I don’t think we’ll get anything better than that at the deadline.
For his part, Lyle is playing his was out of a deadline trade.
If we had anybody to play third base next year, I’d be more accepting of a GBOAT trade.
Maybe we can send Vdub and $50m to Miami for Hermida (he of presistant unfulfilled promise).
We do have a catching prospect, who admittely is having a not so good season in his first go around in AAA but I wouldn’t toss in the towel just yet on JP just yet (JP the catcher not JP the GM although I argue both points).
Yes I would love a SS prospect, but the problem is SS is one of the more weaker positions in the game so a top prospect playing that position does not come cheap.
And with each passing day it looks like Halladay is less likely to be traded (re: Keith Law Tweet and other articles on MLBTradeRumors) so that avenue to secure a SS prospect is drying up as well.
I can’t so anything about Rios and Wells as you are completely right, they are underperforming to their contracts and abilities, but I fear that may always be the case in fans eyes when it comes to Wells. I have to wonder what it is about the Rogers Center that has Wells all twisted up. His Road Home splits are amazing to look at.
And well it may be true that Cito doesn’t have the same record as Gibbons it has to be said that Cito is doing it with less, Gibbons had a more effective BJ Ryan, Better starting rotation and a better hitting Wells and Rios. The only thing he didn’t have was Hill as he was out to a concussion. I am not saying that this alone should save a manager but all things considered Cito and company have done pretty well with our Young guys, Hill and Lind are having monster campaigns and we all know about the rookie pitchers stepping in.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Correction
Re: 4 point, I can’t so anything about Rios and Wells. Should read I can’t say anything…. sorry early monday morning at work, not enough coffee and my smart ass boss just walked around saying looks like someone has a case of the Mundays!
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Do you think it’s actually Cito that has Hill and Lind on fire or do you think it would have happened anyway given another year in the majors? Those guys had huge potential before Cito came and I think they would have been successful regardless.
The rookie pitchers did well at the start and then the league caught up to them. Reminds me of an experiment Larussa tried where he brought up a whole slew of rookies throughout the season because he thought the pitchers have the advantage at first. Don’t know how that worked out. Right now Romero is a keeper, the rest seemed to need some more seasoning which is only natural with a pitcher. Very impressed with Romero though.
I would say if you throw another manager in there we have a similar record and maybe one game better due to that 8-3 lead blown to baltimore. :)
by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Jul 13, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok then the point stands if you aren’t doing any better with someone else why fire Cito?
And also I think It is a combo between Cito and regular seasoning that Hill and Lind have taken off.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
I don’t think Cito should be fired. Just pointing out he can’t take all the credit. Now if Johnny Mac starting hitting and we could trade him for a starting pitcher, I would give Cito a gold star.
by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Jul 13, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
pitching comments are off the mark
Camp, Carlson and League have all shown to be effective pitchers from the bullpen
granted they do have occasional bouts of inconsistency, however, this is common to most pitchers so overall they are good relievers
they have been used a bit too much this year, and when they are suffering inconsistency, tend to be left in too long, but none of these in any way justifies dumping them
The numbers speak for themselves
Are you kidding? Shawn Camp has never showed much promise since he began his major league career. In the last three years: 2007 era 7.20 no wins 3 losses in 50 games, last year three wins one loss and 4.12 era and this year, no wins three losses and a respectable 3.45 era with half of a season still to go…
Jesse Carlson: An amazing season last year with a 7-2 record and a 2.25 era, but this year only half of a year, 1-4 a 4.93 era and still a lot of baseball to be played..
Brandon League has been called up several times in the last 5-years, and had only one good showing in 2007. This year, 1-4, 4.95 era, and three blown saves…shall I say more?
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
I would totally agree with the League comment above. He should go back to the minors. Sort himself out.
A decision as to be made, do we go for 2010 or do we go for 2013? There is no in between. Personally, I don’t think we have it for 2010. Realistically, I hoped Wells would return to superstar form but I don’t see it right now. Maybe if Lind replaces Wells as the superstar we can get by with Wells being less effective than his salary commands. So Lind might make that situation better. I don’t see Rios breaking out either unfortunately but would like to hope they can turn him around (challenge for Cito). Rolen is getting older and seems to be trade bait right now. Perhaps trading Rolen would be a good move before he fizzles. We need a bunch of pitchers to return from injury and be really effective.
I think trading Rolen right now might be our best bet to secure something for the future. We can replace him from the free agents. If we go for 2010 we need Halladay around so trading him means we are going for 2013 and in that case we need to dump Wells somehow too at some point. So pray he gets hot.
by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Jul 13, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions
League is sorted out
His numbers are just fine if not better: 8.23 K/9, 2.95 BB/9, 1.29 Whip, 3.96 FIP. He’s getting less groundballs than he has in the past, and so that’s lead to a few more HRs, but mostly he’s just been unlucky (66% LOB%). He is throwing more changeups than in the past, but it’s been an effective pitch for him so that’s a good thing.
With his peripheral stats in the good range, he’s likely to have a strong second half and sending him down now would be a waste (I am not actually sure he has options remaining so it might not even be possible).
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
The free agent 3Bs:
Chone Figgins
Melvin Mora
Adrian Beltre
Joe Crede
Robb Quinlan
Troy Glaus
In other words, we can’t really afford to trade Rolen.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
unless we were to get a young major-league ready (or very close)
third baseman in return, and why would someone do that?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
You lose all credibility for saying League sucks
Along with claiming we need catching prospects when we have JP and Jeroleman down on the farm.
League has top tier closer stuff. His control is patchy sometimes but when hes on he is unhittable. Hes always been one of my favorite players on the team. I think he deserves a shot at the closer role next year. I dont think Downs has the stuff, even though i do like him a lot as a setup man.
Onions Baby Onions
Brandon League closer????????
Brandon League has been given the opportunity by Blue Jays over and over again, with the exception of two years ago when he was fairly adequate. Other than that, he has not shown much at the major league level, and to add to that, it’s also a reason why he has pitched most of his baseball in the minors in the last two years. Before he becomes a closer at the major league level, he will need to show some more consistency in his current role when called upon by manager Cito Gaston.. Otherwise, he will likely find himself in Triple AAA, or with another organization….
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
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