All the top 3B prospects either have the stupid untouchable label or play for teams that need to develop their own talent, and all the free agent 3Bs to be are worse than Rolen, and in Figgins’ case might cost us a first round draft pick.

… but there are a couple of holes.

Pitching, when healthy, is probably adequate, if not overstaffed, to lead the team to contention. I believe this applies to both starting and relief.

At 3B Jays are strong with Rolen, but he is getting older and may soon retire. If he retires as a Jay, that is fine, but the Jays need to start planning for a replacement. At SS, Scutaro is a good lead-off batter and fielder. As with Rolen, retirement issues loom for Scutaro. At 2B, Jays are solid with Hill. At 1B, Jays need to improve either with a replacement or Overbay needs to rid himself of the long periods of hitlessness. Overbay’s defense and hitting, when he is on, are fine, but the multi-game hitless streaks are just too costly in the MLB.

RF, CF and DH are fine, assuming they are not slumping (see comments on multi-game hitlessness above). LF, if Snider does not come back, needs to be filled.

Jays need to re-sign Rod, IMHO, as Arencibia does not appear to be working out. I would like to see Philips look to convert to catcher as his bat, again IMHO, does not offer adequate slugging power to make it in the majors as a 1B.

The Jays have a surplus of pitching. Trade is about leveraging comparative advantage among entities with complementary strengths. As the Jays need position players, they need to leverage their comparative advantage in pitching with a team that offers comparative advantage in fielding positions. This can be achieved by trading either Halladay or pitching prospects. It is a tough spot for JP, but I give Roy the option.

If Jays do have to trade Halladay, I would like to see if the VW contract can be moved. This is not really a commentary on VW, but moreso on the excess of the contract. Jays could engage two, maybe three quality players for that contract.

I agree with the contention, raised in the round table, that the Jays do not need to be blown up. There are some modest tweaks necessary but the Jays can win. Bo Sox and Yanks are hardly impenetrable barriers of competitiveness. The Jays can hold their own versus either. A few more subtle adjustments, could ensure that the Jays do it on a more regular basis.

It would be interesting to have audio recordings of these roundtables to listen to at work so I can be working and thinking about the Jays. Just a thought. Interesting idea.

I have some thoughts:

1) If Halladay goes this year I think Wells needs to go somehow. If Halladay goes we are essentially saying next year we are not going to go for it. In that regard we are really rebuilding for the years after that and I don’t see how Wells and his contract fit into that. That being said, we lose some value in trading Halladay with Wells.

2) Everyone is talking trade for Halladay but I would like to talk about signing him long term and how we do that. I think it needs to involve Vernon. If I was Vernon and had a chance to play on the same team as the best pitcher on the planet and maybe have a chance to win, then I would highly consider restructuring my contract. It takes a real special person to do that, but I would love to see it happen here. Vernon must realize his contract hurts this team. And, maybe it would take the pressure off Vernon and he might perform better.

3) Going into this year I figured all we needed was another starter if the hitters actually hit, which they have been doing at certain points. Extrapolating to next year I could see myself saying the same thing. So maybe we can trade Vernon to a contender for a player who isn’t doing very well either. Perhaps that play but also costs a lot but maybe for not as many years as Vernon and maybe Arnsberg can turn that pitcher around. Perhaps Dontrelle Willis is that guy. The tigers could use another hitter and Willis is earning 10 million next year and he sucks. Maybe we can ship off Mills or Purcey or someone else too. It would be like cutting your losses partially and hoping someone needs another bat for the post-season run and willing to pay a bit of a premium price. Maybe there will be a big injury to one of the top outfielders on LA, BOS or NYY and they’ll come calling. It would be a bit of gamble. Then we can sign another outfielder or DH in the offseason to a one or two year deal. If the first half of next year doesn’t go well, trade Halladay.

4) The worst thing that could happen is that the Jays don’t trade Halladay and he either gets injured or he has a poor start to next season. The trade value is super high right now. So if we think 2010 is not really a real good chance at success, trade him now. I can’t believe I just said that though. I have always hoped that Halladay would be a lifer with the Jays. I just want to see a player play their entire career with Toronto and go to the Hall of Fame wearing the Jays cap. I like watching this guy every five days and because of him I can put up with sub-par seasons. Ever since I watched his near no-hitter live against Detroit from behind the plate I was hooked. Damn Bobby Higginson.

As far as I can see to refine the team and help out we have 3 options, baring key injury to a playoff team. Halliday Wells Rios. Which of the 3 can we deal with losing the most? Some might say add Rolen and or Overbay. Rolen is good and I like him but I dont think too many teams are willing to take that contract on. Overbay doesnt have the pop for first and well he has to know Cooper is coming up and will fill the exact same roll so…

Given that choice I would have to go with Wells or Rios. Our pitching is deep but I think that all is a part of what Doc brings to the table. Talent is talent however like alot of the greats they make those around them better and Doc does that we need him. If we have to part with one of my favourites I say Wells or Rios.

As an outsider, I believe it’s time for the Blue Jays to rebuild. The situation in the AL East is just too difficult – they tried spending to keep up with the big boys, but now they are hurt by the contracts. The system isn’t strong enough, and there are already 3 superior teams in the AL East. Hey, if they were in the AL Central, they’d be in it. Luck of the draw (sorta). The Orioles have a loaded team coming up and are closer than people think from a surprise season. Probably 2011 is more realistic, but they are talented. I think the Blue Jays system is alright, but it’s probably in the end of the 2nd tier or the third tier of systems. Just enough chips in place.

Before I forget, I always liked Skydome, Rogers, whatever it’s called now. Went there when I was in 7th grade and then went back again a few years ago. It’s a comfortable stadium, one that doesn’t really get the respect that it ought to, imo.

It’s tough to white flag it, but really, everything has to go right for the Blue Jays current core to compete in 2010 AND you have to hope that the top 3 teams in the AL East all go through big issues. That just seems unlikely. I’m not one to believe that building .500ish, 83-87 win teams year in and year out is anything worth celebrating.

Doc Halladay’s value is best right now. If you could rate a trade’s return on a 1-5 scale, I think most Blue Jays fans believe that they shouldn’t take a deal unless it’s a 5, a home run, knock your socks off, change the system type deal. I’m not suggesting you take a 3, which might be a good deal. But if a plus deal comes along, I think you pull the trigger. The chances of a high return is best now, as you can bring in some teams that might not have any thought about resigning him as of now, but are simply gunning for the short term since they control him for that extra time. It’s not impossible, but with teams overprotecting their prospects these days. I think the Phillies have be the favorite, but certainly some darkhorses exist. I’m not really sold the Phillies will say, offer Drabek/Taylor/Brown/Donald to make a deal happen, but 2 out of the 4 might be possible, and maybe 3. Halladay should be a standalone trade, and not a salary relief deal, as you need the talent first and foremost, and any salary relief considerations, in this economy, would likely bring down the return.

I think you shop Rolen now. He’s not going to be a part of the core of the next great Toronto squad, and his value is best now as well. See what you can net. Same with Overbay. Clearing his salary would be nice. I wouldn’t expect much. Dealing Vernon would be a dream move for you guys, but honestly, I don’t see it happen. Certainly, though, clearing more salary would be nice, and I’d shop Alex Rios. I don’t know if any team is simply going to take on the salary, though, so the Blue Jays might have to eat some of it. Not sure.

White flagging is never fun, but honestly, are .500-ish seasons all that exciting after awhile? I’d tear it down and try to build it back up.

First, Wells and Rios. If their numbers don’t go up, their contracts must be looked at and very carefully in the offseason. With that much money, the team could sign quite a few players. Second, Rolen and Halladay are the toughest issues. Scutaro certainly has more to give to the club and the same is true for Overbay, I feel. Yet, the second needs to settle down and being more steady. In general, as far as adding players, I would split 50-50 the acquisitions between position players and pitchers but the first could very well be the majority, nobody would object to such a choice in my opinion. Very interesting topic.

is that you can get equilalent value for average and good players, but you cannot for great players. 90% of the time the team that gets the top line player gets a much better deal than the team that recieved the 3 or 4 players.

For that reason alone I would not consider trading Halladay. When you also add his value as a team player and leader, he should be the face of the franchise. Why not trade the young pitching prospects for young hitting prospects, one for one?

It is hard to understand that before the Jays had to start 5 rookies this year, they had the best record in the AL, but two months later there is discussion of blowing it up. If Richmond comes back and pitches the way he did earlier in the year, the Jays could go on a long winning streak right now, say 15-5. If other teams now start losing pitchers to injury, the Jays could be back in the wild card race.

I am obviously strongly against trading Aaron Hill. I haven’t given up on Rios by any means, we need to see his 2nd half of 2009. I am a fan of Vernon Wells, I have always been. I am just frustrated by the current numbers. Scott Rolen well I was delighted when he arrived so no I wouldn’t trade him unless Toronto gets a great offer. I will believe for the rest of July that Doc is going to stay until something opposite happens but frankly there’s no reason to let him go now. An offseason is a different environment but not now when this team can still play a significant role. Does the majority agree with me? I don’t consider this month as the appropriate moment to let him go compared to December.

and honestly, not sure why I’m fixated on the Blue Jays today. Got a bit of spare time on my hands these days.

Looking over the rumor mill today, I wanted to throw out a hypothetical. No, I’m not one to think I can randomly predict a trade. Rather, I’m curious on how Jays fans would view things, to try and see where this line in the sand that I’m attempting to draw by placing a random scale on trade value is.

But in Verducci’s column on SI today, they said there’s no way the Dodgers deal Kershaw (understandable). That said, they said they’d contemplate something involving Josh Bell.

I’m curious, using the 4 man map that Ricciardi drew up, what Jays fans would think about something like

Los Angeles Dodgers get: Roy Halladay
Toronto Blue Jays get: James MacDonald, Josh Bell, Dee Gordon, and maybe, say, a Josh Lindblom.

It’s not the home run trade that Blue Jays fans would desire, but it’s a really good trade that carries some risk as Bell/Gordon are a bit away. Anyhow, just to be clear, this isn’t anything out in the rumor mill, just wanted to throw a hypo out to see how Jays fans would feel. That’s a solid 2/3 looking starter in MacDonald, another good arm in Lindblom, both guys just about ready. Bell is a power hitting third base prospect, and Gordon has arguably surpassed other guys to be the top SS prospect in the system.