Rolen to the Reds?

by hugo on Jul 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT in Toronto Blue Jays News

So we had discussed briefly a few weeks ago the possibility that the Reds might be interested in Scott Rolen. However, since then, the Reds have completely fallen out of the race - they're 10 games under .500 at the present time. That's why it is so strange to me that Bob Elliott twittered earlier today that Rolen to the Reds has "a good chance of getting done." If that wasn't strange enough, the Providence Journal is saying that Cincinnati is talking to the Jays about a Rolen for Yonder Alonso swap. For those who don't know, Alonso, a native of Cuba, was the Reds' first-round pick last year and looks to have a run-producer's bat at first base. He's 22 and recently started playing in AA. He'd instantly become one of our top few prospects, so I have to agree with the first commenter on the ProvoJo bit...No way JP pulls that off.

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Would be nice...

Rolen was earlier linked to Homer Bailey and Edwin Encarnacion from the Reds so there is some other candidates other then Alonso but that would be a great deal for the Jays if they could do it.

Who plays third though? Well White Sox 3B Josh Fields was recently demoted and asked to be traded, could the Jays ship an unimportant piece to the White Sox for Fields? A new team and fresh start could re-ignite his bat that hit 23 HR in his rookie season of 2007.

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions

Side Note...

Not sure why the Reds would want Rolen, though he is signed next year so they could absolutely use him then for a playoff push…and EE isn’t a very good defensive 3B so they’d get a HUGE upgrade there…

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

out of Fields or Kouzmanoff

assuming we could get one of them without giving up too much, which would you want? A few months ago, I would have thrown Marte in here, but that moment has passed, I think…

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 30, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd take

Fields over Kouzmanoff, no real reason just personal preference

Marte would have been nice but I think Cleveland will give him the 1B job for the rest of this year and see if he sinks or swims.

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

it's interesting

Kouzmanoff is a better defender (Fields is actually a pretty bad third baseman, isn’t he?) but Fields has a much better approach at the plate (Kouzmanoff’s walk rates over the past two seasons are horrendous). I’m not sure either one will ever make a major-league quality third baseman – Fields has to hit really well to offset his defense and while Kouzmanoff has had the disadvantage of Petco while Fields has enjoyed a hitter’s park, his trends at the plate are pretty discouraging – he swings at a ton of bad pitches and isn’t very good at connecting with them.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 30, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

pass on Fields

The problem with Fields is that he’s essentially the same player as Jose Bautista: decent role player, but his inability to hit right handed pitching makes him a poor option as an everyday starter. And you only need one lefty-masher corner guy on the roster.

Fields career splits: .279/.349/.579 vs LHP – .207/.283/.354 vs RHP
Bautista career splits: .261/.357/.462 vs LHP – .231/.317/.363 vs RHP

by ChrisU on Jul 30, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions

but even if Fields doesn't improve

which he could seeing as he’s 26 and hasn’t really been an everyday player yet, for a power-challenged team like the Jays that 117 points of slugging over Bautista he offers, plus the chance that he could get better, might be enough to make Fields worth what it’d take to acquire him.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 30, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

cant argue with that Chris

by aagoodfella on Jul 30, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

hmmmmmm

If the Jays do this, it says to me that 2010 is a rebuilding year

it might also say that the Jays are truly looking to cut salary

Jays already have Dopirak in the minors so not sure why they would be targeting Alonso

if this trade happens, it will indicate to me that there will be plenty more trades to come

by aagoodfella on Jul 30, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions

Alonso >>>>>>> Dopriak

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

that would be an interesting competition

Alonso or Dopriak… hmmmmmmmmm

by Aquamelli on Jul 30, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions

Not really

Dopirak’s career stats (in 8 minor league seasons):
.278/.337/.486

2004: .307/.363/.593 39 HR, 120 RBI
2005: .235/.289/.381 16 HR, 76 RBI
2006: .256/.320/.339 1 HR, 23 RBI in 180 ABs
2007: .277/.325/.490 17 HR, 64 RBI in A ball – .218/.247/.269 1 HR, 4 RBI in AA (78 AB)
2008: .308/.382/.577 27 HR, 88 RBI in A ball – .287/.297/.425, 2 HR 13 RBI in AA (87 AB)
2009: .308/.374/.576 19 HR, 68 RBI in AA – .340/.357/.509 2 HR, 11 RBI in AAA

He is 25 years old had has a total of 53 AB (all in 2009) at AAA. That’s not a very good pedigree, he had his breakout year in 2004 (5 years ago!) and hasn’t done much until 2008 could be that he’s just mastered A and AA pitching being there for parts of 6 years?

Alonso on the other hand was drafted 7th overall in 2008 and has already reached AA his current slash stats for this year are: .287/.360/.470 with 8 HR and 45 RBI between High A and AA and he is just 21 years old.

It’s pretty clear that Alonso is the better “prospect” where Dopirak may have a solid carrer if given the chance he may also just be a minor league slugger. Alonso has the opportunity to be something special though he may never pan out.

2005: A ball: .234/16 HR/76 RBI
2006: missed time due to injury only hit 1 HR in 179 ABs though
2007: combined 18 HR between AA and High A ball and a .265 average
2008:

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

oops

ignore the last part listing all the years…

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Alonso is 22 now

but I don’t disagree. You do have to factor in Dopirak’s injuries, though – they held him back and were at least partially responsible for the fact that he was a 25-year old in AA for the third time this year, which is a big reason to doubt on him. When he OPSed .957 in the Midwest League as a 20-year old, he wasn’t old for the level at all, and he’s certainly passed the AA test. Like a lot of hitters, it’s likely he’ll need time to combine hitting and discipline at the higher levels AAA and the majors (that’s often a lesson you have to take time learning again and again as you move up – case in point, Adam Lind), so he’s a little behind, but it’s not like he’s a career minor-leaguer.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 30, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

bigger case in point … Snider

by aagoodfella on Jul 30, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Not to mention

Dopirak raked in two jacks and 7 RBI last night in AAA. I am a big believer in him and hope he gets a september call up. Dude has power and has hit for a decent average, he could take more walks but I think that will improve over time (especially in the bigs).

by canadiancolts on Jul 30, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Keep them all and Pull a boston

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090730/sports/baseball_usa_doping_ortiz_ramirez

instead of ortiz and manny do wells and rios!!

baseball’s name is so scared..it kinda sucks

by bowling_kid25 on Jul 30, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cheating Chowdaheads. I hate you all.

Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.

by craig in calgary on Jul 30, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Meh...

everyone was cheating at that time so the playing field was pretty level!

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

No offence, but I hate that argument

Would they have won those championships without Manny or Papi? No.
I hate how dirty baseball has gotten, but I don’t like saying that its ok because everyone else cheated

I honestly wonder if Vernons name is going to pop up anywhere.

Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.

by craig in calgary on Jul 30, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm thinking after the Dodgers trade with the O's that Doc is staying put,

JP is now saying he’ll likely make no deals at all if Doc is staying. I think we’ll get the announcement of a new prez in the offseason, then JP will be fired, a new GM (Anthop or Lacava) and then we’ll see the direction the team chooses depending on the economy and the dollar.

by ClintB on Jul 30, 2009 4:41 PM EDT reply actions

blogs are saying Dodgers getting more aggressive on Halladay

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/07/dodgers-active-in-halladay-trade-talks-sherrill-close.html

by aagoodfella on Jul 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Heard

Texas is ready to take on the $$ of Doc – they have some great prospects (Smoak, Feliz, Holland, C. Davis etc)…

by bunner on Jul 30, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

makes sense

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 30, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess it's going to come down to the wire then!

What time is the deadline tomorrow?

by suitup17 on Jul 31, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions

4PM eastern

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Id like to see it done

I dont think you can ever have too many prospects. I like Dopriak a lot. I dont understand why he gets so much hate. Sure hes spent a lot of the time in the minors, but he was hurt and his last 2 seasons have been great in AAA.
Just look at Nelson Cruz… the guy was a AAAA player for ages, now hes hitting 20something homers and 60something RBI (granted hes playing in Texas but still). Dopriak can easily be a post-hype sleeper for us. The talent is there.
25 is hardly old either…

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Jul 30, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions

AAAA?

Isn’t that the National league?

Click

Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.

by craig in calgary on Jul 30, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I’d like to see it done too but then find a way to bring Halladay back in 2011.

by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Jul 30, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions

outsider viewpoint...

It seems obvious that 2010 is going to be a rebuilding year for the Jays,

and it also seems pretty obvious that the Reds are going to have a great core with which to go for it next year.

It seems a little lopsided in favor of the Jays, but definitely not a dumb trade, either.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 30, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions

Why would 2010 need to be a rebuilding year for the Jays?

Because I suspect there’s a latent assumption there that I disagree with, so we should bring it to the surface so we can debate it.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 30, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

because ...

… Rolen is a prime player

he offers outstanding fielding and hitting.

realistically speaking, you cannot replace him with a better 3B

so the only reason to trade him away is for future considerations (implying not expecting to be immediate contender) or maybe if you had a big hole in another spot and a backup 3B plan or u could get 2 players for him or something of that nature

it is not that lopsided deal for Cinci …. if you are a team that has a real chance at a WS this year or next year and you can have a guy like Rolen with awesome defense and hitting 300+ … you jump at it, as a guy who can get you across the finish line

by aagoodfella on Jul 30, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Sounds like a guy the Jays should try to have on their team next year.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 30, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions

agreed

by aagoodfella on Jul 30, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions

did you know?

that wells has one more JoD then Rolen…according the tally on the left at the homepage

hes not really classified as “the guy to get you to the WS”..hes a valueable asset but hes no MVP

by bowling_kid25 on Jul 31, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Because we still have Vernon Well’s bank account to fill and the bank is just run by Madoff. Money in, good returns for a few years, lots more money in, investment tanks and ultimately no return on investment.

by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Jul 30, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

you really think it's a reasonable deal for the Reds?

please convince them to make it…

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions

this is gonna be a ridiculous 7 hours

lets just hope 4PM (eastern) comes and goes reallllly fast with no news

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 8:44 AM EDT reply actions

Well I wouldn’t mind some moves…. I have top waiver priority in my fantasy league and since I am near the bottom of the league I can flip the National League crossovers for keepers!

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions

the only move i wouldnt mind is the Rolen trade....only because of who we get in return

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh I just meant for the other teams, At this point I am not sure I want the Jays to let anyone go…

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Theres really not any reason to worry

although this is trusting what JP said..but…IFF hallday was traded it would start a lot of moves, he wasn’t so i highly doubt anyone else is going anywhere..unless the offer cannot be refused!

I have so much faith im not even going to pay attn to the rumors today…

crosses fingers

by bowling_kid25 on Jul 31, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions

JP isn’t leaving himself a lot of wiggle room – if something transpires on the Doc front today he doesn’t have a lot of time to make a deal for Scutaro or Rolen or whoever (unless those are in place pending a trade of doc…)

by bunner on Jul 31, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions

That would be why he set the deadline for Hallday for the 28th

I believe anyway, so he had Wiggle room to do everything..

also why i think notthings gonna happen because there is no wiggle room

by bowling_kid25 on Jul 31, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Could this happen today??/

Probably too big of a trade to actually happen but:

To Boston: Halladay, Frasor, Scutaro, Overbay
To Toronto: 1B Adam LaRoche, SP Buchholz, RP Bard, SS Lowrie, SP prospect Michael Bowden, 1B Prospect Lars Anderson and maybe some other lower prospects

Getting LaRoche for Overbay is an even swap but Overbay is under contract for 2010 where LaRoche is a FA so it saves the Jays $7M

It’s probaby too much to get from Boston especially with the $ owed to Overbay and Scutaro being a FA but hey I’m just coming up with ideas here…

Then we could see Downs go because Bard would be the closer (or Downs could stay and set up where he’s excelled) and Rolen to the Reds could happen too…who knows.

by bunner on Jul 31, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions