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Rolen Traded to Reds

It is in the trade thread below but Scott Rolen has been traded to the Reds for Edwin Encarnacion and a minor leaguer pending Rolen's agreeing to the trade. Encarnacion is 26 so we've gained youth. He isn't hitting much this season but had 26 homers last year. Yonder Alonso who everyone likes can't be traded till after August 16th but he could be a player to be named later. We shall see. 

I'll miss Rolen.

Update, apparently Rolen has approved the deal.

Update - Hugo: The trade is Rolen for Edwin Encarnacion, Zach Stewart, and Josh Roenicke.  Roenicke and Stewart are reasonably good relief arms (both righthanded) who profile as average- to above-average major-league relievers, with Stewart being the slightly better regarded.  Stewart did a bit of starting at the lower levels earlier this season but that experiment seems to be over.  

 

Although Encarnacion is a big downgrade on defense (and, this season, offense), money was clearly the name of the game for the Jays.  They saved $3.5 million this year and even more next season, where Rolen was due $11 M and Edwin will only be in his first arbitration year.  If Encarnacion can hit as well as he did last year (his improved walk rate this season is a lone bright spot so far), he could be a useful player.


Since apparently we are "competing" next year, think we'll use the money saved on other players?  I could see us using it to resign Scutaro and Barajas - that's something.

3rd Update - Hugo:  According to Griffin, we are paying Rolen's salary for the rest of the year.  In the immortal words of Lando Calrissian, this deal is getting worse all the time.

4th Update - Hugo:  Apparently, Stewart's conversion to the bullpen this season after starting the year as a starter was not based on assessment of his abilities as a starter but as a way to limit his innings, considering how he had only been a reliever last year and mostly did relief work in college (though he did do a bit of starting there).  Of course, with only 14 professional starts under his belt, Stewart is an uncertainty as a major-league starter.  But if there is even a reasonable potential that he can start at the major-league level, it is a much better deal for the Jays.  The Jays typically share that organizational philosophy so that should be interesting to see.

Somewhat less instant reaction:  Like everyone else, I will miss Rolen but this isn't an awful trade for the Jays, is it?  They cleared some salary and gave the team some certainty at third base after 2010 while not creating a huge hole at third, got younger, and added some young arms with potential.  Encarnacion has some upside and Stewart could be a diamond in the rough.  Rolen was incredible this year but will be 35 next season and would have been gone after that regardless.

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I'll miss Edwin.

He’s got a strong, if not erratic arm and isn’t the greatest at the hot corner. He battled injuries the beginning of the year, missed half of the first half of the season, and had a very good July with an OPS+ of 140. I’ve always felt Edwin is just around the corner from being a very good hitter, so maybe you Jays fans have gotten something here.

by onemoreredoctober on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

you guys will love Rolen

since he changed his swing mechanics to compensate for his shoulder injury, he is a line-drive hitting machine, and he makes incredible plays at third base on a daily basis.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

you will love Rolen

The guy has an amazing glove and matching arm … he is just great defensively.

Rolen has a great bat, and is one of, if not the Jay’s most reliable hitters this year.

He delivers quite a bit of power even if he does not possess the power stroke of yesteryear.

Rolen is the consummate sports professional. Despite a sore shoulder that hampered his swing in 2008, Rolen made adjustments to start 2009 and delivered a strong bat all season. Rolen gives 100% on the base paths, no matter what the situation and despite his size.

If I could build a team of Scott Rolens, I would do it in a heartbeat.

by aagoodfella on Jul 31, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d prefer Bautista at 3B, to be honest
You’re right. A bit more power, but not much

Encarnacion 2008 (his 26 HR season): 1 HR every 20 AB

Bautista 2008: 1 HR every 25 AB

Taking defense into consideration, I like Bautista better, but they’re both pretty bad. Maybe Campbell gets a shot now?

by REMO on Jul 31, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

despite my negativity on Edwin, the one thing I would offer is that he did seem to be making progress at the plate steadily as he progressed through his career. So perhaps he is maturing into something better.

However, is fielding seems to be going in the opposite direction.

by aagoodfella on Jul 31, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

although

Bautista has showed absolutely no power this season (.112 Iso) while Encarnacion at least has had glimmers (.165).

Ultimately, if Encarnacion can bounce back, he could be an everyday third baseman, since he has hit righthanded pitching respectably before. Bautista has never done that, so really can’t be considered an everyday third baseman. Though it must be pointed out that a home run in Cincinnati does not equal a home run in TO.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

HitTrackerOnline says his are

4 of his 5 homers this year are homers in all 30 ballparks, and the one that wasn’t was in Citizen’s Bank park.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's good

though 5 home runs is a pretty small number. Wonder how many of his ’08 home runs were…

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

im pretty excited about these pitchers

i know people are saying that “we have enough pitchers”… but half of them end of getting TJ surgery… and our bullpen is so worn out… and lets face it, we need a closer badly.

Zach Stewart having a high upper 90s fastball with a good slider… he could make a good a closer

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

relief pitching

is so mercurial it’s hard to get too excited about relievers as any significant part of a deal. That said, I agree with you – the Jays could really use the infusion of live young arms

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be a Selling The Closer type deal

Get one of these guys 40 saves one year, then trade him for more than any team deserves to get back for a reliever.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm down with that

always seems tough to get good trade value for a closer, but it’s not impossible

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone on MLBTradeRumors said he was a starter moved to the bullpen

that they were going to move back.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

he started

in A and AA this season, but only relieved in AAA. If he has a third pitch and moves back to starter, that could be interesting…

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

so does this

finally mean goodbye kevin millar?

by brrthatscold on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

i cannot imagine he will be back next year

at some point, I might release him to give Dopirak some experience in the bigs

by aagoodfella on Jul 31, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can’t trade Yonder due to the rules. He wasn’t eligible to be trade until August 15th, and there are some confusions surrounding the player to be named later if it would be ok.

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah ok pal, Keep writing for Yahoo! and hopefully someday you will get a real reporter job with a paper

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree to an extent

Its highly unlikely that we will make the playoffs next year. I dont think anyone can claim otherwise. Do you really think we’ll be able to improve to the level of the Yankees and Sox from this season to next??? The pitchers we have coming back from injury arent sure things, and the offense wont get that much better unless Snider figures everything out fast…

Whilst i do think we will be a better team next season, i still was kinda hoping we could trade Doc and get a lot back for him which would make us set for the next 5 years or so rather than having one last shot in 2010 and then be screwed…

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The places we need offense are the easiest places to find it

Assuming we can bring back Scutaro, and considering he accepted that terrible (for him) 2 year deal from us after we got him, he might.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, we have a decent shot at bringing him back

even if he decides to test the market, he could still come back to us. If no one wants him as an everyday SS, your first-round pick is a lot to give up for a utility player. Maybe a bad team would sign him, I don’t know.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

if what you're getting back

gives you a better chance of competing in 2012-13 than you have in 2010 without making the trade, than yeah, maybe. But if you’re just trading pieces away because “this team isn’t good enough,” well, what’s the point? It’s not like we become part of the NL West in 2011.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even better example

Say you’re a hotel manager and your hotel rooms go for $200 a night. Someone shows up at 3am looking for a hotel room and he wants to haggle. Obviously you lose all the revenue you could make from a hotel room if you don’t let someone pay you to stay there, but does that mean you should let a guy have it for $50? $20? $1? At some point you have to tell the guy, “Maybe you should look for a Super 8. I hear they have free breakfast and internets.”

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

you said it

especially if you will get at least one more good chance to rent the room later on…

I was interested in Passan’s piece until he resorted to poker metaphors about 1/3 of the way in.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well it's 3am

You probably won’t get a guy showing up at 4, although maybe someone will show up at 10 and want a day room.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

the best part of this article

is when he says that the Twins “held onto Santana for too long.” If Santana had been on the Twins in 2008, they almost certainly would have been a playoff team (and who knows how much more?).

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Aug 2, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

according to blair...

from twitter: Jays will pick up some of Rolen’s salary this year.

crud… was hoping that wasnt the case

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions  

That is fine

We then are not paying the 11 million next year. They already had it in the budget to pay rolen the remainder owed to him.

by canadiancolts on Jul 31, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Traded for "Persoal Reasons"

According to Bastian who got it from JP.

Wonder what it could have been?

by canadiancolts on Jul 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe he didn't like getting so much time off

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You think he punched Wells in the face for sucking?

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

that would be an interesting fight to watch

I wouldn’t mess with either one

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

id bank the house on Rolen

he seems like the type of guy that wouldnt even talk $hit to you…. he’d just walk up to you and knock you out then walk away

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

Maybe he was having a hard time dealing with some people in the clubhouse and wanted to leave quietly this time. He has a history of conflicts.

by REMO on Jul 31, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now I hear he wanted to be closer to Indiana

Maybe an ailing relative?

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Griff is saying we have to pay all of Rolens salary this year (nearly 4 Mil)

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

haha, we posted this at the same time

though I got a Star Wars quote out of it

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alas, that means you win.

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

from Bastian:

Walking to stadium, Accardo on phone heading in opposite direction. Looks like Roenicke takes his spot in ’pen.

by jlahey on Jul 31, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Zach Stewart is a starter, not a reliever

The Reds were viewing Stewart as a starting pitcher. He went back to the bullpen to keep his innings down as he was a reliever in the past (at Texas Tech, but he did start some in JC before going to TT).

Scouting Report on Stewart from this year:
Fastball – 92-96 MPH with sink that generates a ton of groundballs (carried that velocity into the 6th and 7th inning all year as a starter).
Slider – Plus pitch that he can locate.
Change Up – Average pitch now, has come a long way in a year.
Control – Solid to slightly above average. Can throw strikes.

I am absolutely sick to my stomach to lose this kid. If the Blue Jays keep him as a starter, he will win 20 games in a season for you.

by dougdirt on Jul 31, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Why wasn't he in the Reds' top 10?

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Jul 31, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a reliever last year

So his value wasn’t the same. Baseball America initially had him listed among the 25 honorable mentions to their Midseason Top 25 prospect list (meaning he was considered a Top 50 overall prospect in baseball as of last month), but was removed after a few hours of debate. Still, that suggests at the very least he is a Top 60 overall prospect in baseball right now according to Baseball America.

BTW, he also was at #75 at FirstInning.com’s Midseason Top 100.

by dougdirt on Jul 31, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

good to know

If he is a true starting prospect of that caliber, he’s worth significantly more. Maybe I was thrown off by the fact that he was only a reliever last season and went back to relieving this season after about 15 starts, along with a few Reds’ prospect reports discussing him as a potential late-inning reliever. You’re the first I’ve seen project him as a legitimate mlb starter.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 7:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Look around some more

Those in the know have him as a starter. I have talked with pitching coaches in the organization and the Reds absolutely saw him as a starter after a few starts this season. The original thought was that he may be a reliever, but they were going to give the starting a shot. After a few starts they decided he was a starter for good or at least until he proved otherwise. That hasn’t come close to happening yet.

by dougdirt on Jul 31, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry if that sounded rude

That reads a lot differently than I meant it. I just meant that perhaps where you were reading had wrong information. Sorry if that came off bad.

by dougdirt on Jul 31, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

He sounded rude! String him up! Hit em with the ban stick!

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 31, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

no worries at all

Your point is well-taken; I wasn’t able to do the research I would’ve liked to. that’s the problem with instantaneous reactions to trades when at work!!

Unfortunately, Sb Nation is a merciless task-master when it comes to breaking news!

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 7:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oh trust me

As someone who runs a site as well, I fully get the rush to get stuff up sometimes without having as much time as you would like to gather information.

by dougdirt on Jul 31, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unacceptable!

You get the funny hat and get to sit in the corner!

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by wroth91 on Aug 1, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds nice

I think anything more than EE is just a plus really. I dont think getting EE is crap. I mean hes playing great right now, hes still young, and his only negative is that he doesnt play great D.
He is still a good power upgrade and can give us a lot of help in that department, seeing as we only have Lind and Hill hitting bombs for us right now.

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Jul 31, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Bastian just tweeted....

I’ve been told that Rolen asked out of Toronto for family reasons

by Aquamelli on Jul 31, 2009 8:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sure they'll talk about it at tonight's game maybe?

On another note, it looks like we got a pretty good prospect in Stewart. Over on the Reds board, people seem to be pretty high on him and say that he is their best pitching prospect. They are also saying that he projects to be a top of the rotation type of arm. That excites me!

by suitup17 on Jul 31, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

the more I read about Stewart, the more enthusiastic I am about the trade

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 31, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

ROFLMAO

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by wroth91 on Aug 1, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

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