Jays Lose to Yankees in Extras

by Tom Dakers on Jul 4, 2009 5:28 PM EDT in Game Recaps Comment 13 comments

The bunt is an interesting strategy. For example, today in the 7th with us up by two, facing Brian Bruney, who just came into the game, Rod Barajas and Marco Scutaro hit hard singles to open the inning. Cito pinch runs for the gimpy Barajas and has Aaron Hill, one of our best hitters this season, bunt. Now, I'm not a fan of the bunt and I really don't like it here because we are up by two already, a big inning puts the game away. Yankee's walk Lind, intentionally and Scott Rolen is up. The reason why you bunted is right here, because Rolen can score the runner with an out. But he pops out and Overbay lines out and the bunt didn't work. Was it the wrong move? Well I don't like the bunt and we were in front so I hate one run strategies when in front. But then if Rolen hit the sac fly, Cito's right.

Ok, skip ahead to the top of the 9th, game tied, Mariano Rivera in. Raul Chavez works a great, long at bat and gets a single. Now do you bunt here? Cito bunted in the other spot where it was a less clear bunt moment. But Cito knows Chavez is as slow as a baseball player gets (and we can't pinch run because Barajas is out of the game), so the bunt would have to be perfect or it would be force at second. Add in Chavez worked Rivera and he knows Scutaro will work him too. So Scoot, after a long at bat, hits a hard ground ball, unfortunately right at Jeter and it's a double play. So if you are a fan of the bunt, well there is another spot to double guess Cito.

I'm not saying Cito was wrong in either case. I wouldn't have done it the first time, I would have thought about it the second and not done it. For me, that's what makes baseball great. The moment. What do you do?

Another moment you could question: 7th inning, up by two, Halladay not really pitching sharp, 98 pitches, do you pull him? I don't, but then a single and a homer and the game is tied. Yeah it was a 'Yankee Stadium' homer, helped by the wind. And we all remember the game Doc came out early, with us way up and we lost. So no you can't rag on Cito for not pulling him, any other Jay starter would have been gone there.

Anyway, extra inning loss. Those are never fun. Two games in and I'm tired of Dellucci already. Please JP, a trade or bring Snider back up. I don't mind Snider not hitting but someone that won't be with the team next season not helping is tough to take.

Jays of the Day are Jesse Carlson (.114 WPA) and Brandon League (110). Honorable mention to Rios (3 RBI), Lind (homer and came close to a second one) and Wells. Suckage Jays, sorry to say it Doc (-.275), Dellucci (-.213), Scutaro (-160) and Hill (-.136).

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Scott Richmond went on the 15 day DL

Brett Cecil tomorrow. Mills getting called up. Can we go a single week without a pitcher getting hurt? I mean geez. This is ridiculous.

by jlahey on Jul 4, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

are you freaking serious

this just isn’t our year.

by torontocoltsfan on Jul 4, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mills?

blah

by Aquamelli on Jul 4, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where did you see that Richmond went on the DL? Not disputing you or anything, just curious where you happened to see that. Not that it makes that big of a deal for tomorrow, the way the Jays are playing right now it doesn’t matter what pitcher they have in, their offense continues to stink. I mean how many opportunities did they have today to score more runs, but couldn’t take advantage at all? Given that Halladay didn’t pitch all that great, 3 HRs against which is very unusual for the Doc, but still. The inning where they had 2 runners on, nobody out, and managed to score a whopping 0 runs in the end comes to mind. They had the chance to blow the game wide open there and did squat. Its all coming down to what people earlier in the season were saying: the Jays are stinking the joint out against their division and that’s going to cost them in the end. Not sure why they suddenly can’t seem to beat the Yankees, if they can beat Boston (which they can), then it makes no sense why they can’t beat the Yanks.

by Icedragon on Jul 4, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bastian's twitter

https://twitter.com/MLBastian

by jlahey on Jul 4, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another one?

This is unbelievable. We need to dig up the SkyDome to see if there are some voodoo dolls buried up there!

by wadcanshuur on Jul 4, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK Tom, I agree on one point but not the other.

I too am already sick of Delucci. No disrespect, but a career .258 hitter, who never played regularly, is not our DH or LF answer. Why not give Adams a longer look. I’d even accept Bautista out there, at least he gets on base.

Unlike you, I am a big fan of the bunt. It is especially useful for a team like the Jays, who cannot get enough clutch hits. As shocked as I am that Cito did it in the 7th, it was the right move. Aaron Hill is not currently our best hitter. That would be Lind or Rolen. So they walk Lind and now we either need a sac fly from Rolen or a walk from Overbay. Those are maybe the best odds we have right now.

I would also bunt in extra innings as well. Maybe they misplay it, like Tallet did, or maybe Scutaro beats it out. Either way Rivera is on the mound, and you are probably not going to get two more hits, which would be required to score Chavez.

The Jays cannot afford to not be aggressive with moves right now. Unfortunately we have the least aggressive manager in the game.

by Chesapeake Ron on Jul 4, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Up by two

I would never have taken the bat out of Hill’s and Lind’s hand. But that’s me. Trouble with playing for one run is that’s all you get, except, course when you don’t get any. If Hill singled we would have gotten the same run or if Hill or Lind hit one deep it would have been the game. Lind hit one out today and came within a bit of two, in that ball park I’d never take the bat out of his hands.

The extra inning one I would have thought about….but not with Chavez at first…he’s too slow. But that’s me. IF Chavez isn’t thrown out on the bunt, you still need two hits to score him from 2nd so the plus from the bunt wouldn’t have been much.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 4, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I appreciate the lively debate. My position is that there have been many occasions this season where we have had a runner on 2nd with no outs, and he did not score. Often he never even got to third unless he stole it.

I see your position. If Hill, Lind, or Rolen gets a hit we score. But if Hill bunts, they walk Lind and now Rolen only needs a fly ball or infield hit. If he gets a clean hit, we get 2 runs. Then there is Overbay, an veteran who has a good eye. That puts pressure on the pitcher with the bases loaded.

Finally, here is where we really differ: You feel letting them all bat is hitting aggressively. I feel bunting is being aggressive as well. Small ball executed well puts tremendous pressure on a defense. The Yankees have older players at several positions. This is a legit strategy, but chances are that since it did not work out today, Cito goes back to just watching the game. I can’t stand that.

by Chesapeake Ron on Jul 4, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah....honest didn't matter to me that he did bunt...

if we were down a run or tied I would have thought that might be the play. Up 2, I wanted the big inning. like you said there are lots of times we haven’t scored guys from second but there are just as many times where we didn’t score guys from third. Sometimes people think hitting a sac fly is easy but when you only have one shot at it, it isn’t that easy. When a runner’s in scoring position already, I don’t bunt.

The other spot is a closer call….any runner other than Chavez I might bunt, but him, I think you’d be bunting into a force.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 5, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

7th Inning..

I would have pulled Roy…he was scared of damon all game…walked him twice, you knew he did not want to walk him 3 times. Damon has good numbers agaisnt him..I called the home run before any pitchwas thrown to him.. Doc had to come to him, and Damon knew it..l…Tie game.

by bowling_kid25 on Jul 4, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

To add to the bunting story...

in the yankee 12th, with runners on first and second, Cano had an 3-0 count and bunted, which was total stupidity. More so because the runner at second didn’t know he was going to bunt that pitch. With a runner on second if you are bunting that runner has to know, because he has to get a good jump to have a shot at getting to third. Clearly the bunt was off for that pitch because the runner didn’t break and he was as easy a force out as you will ever see. Unfortunately the next batter drove in the winning run.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 5, 2009 1:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes Tom, a good example of poor execution...

but with good fundmental play a rhino can be moved over. If the infielders are cheating, then you attempt to slash the ball by them. At the very least, even if you miss or foul off, the infielders go back to playing honest.

My broader point is that the season is slipping away, and this month is so crucial to stay in it until we get better pitchers every game. We have had good pitching performances in this series, only to see the hitters fail us. That’s baseball, but the manager can mix things up to get that extra run. Managers like Gardenhire and La Russa can do it. But not everyone.

by Chesapeake Ron on Jul 5, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs