cito

by James L. on Jul 5, 2009 5:01 PM EDT Comment 11 comments

if the jays don't win a single game vs the yankees this weekend, something needs to be done. cito gaston's style of managing may have worked in the 90's when he had more talent but not these days when the pitching is almost invisible with the loss of halladay. when you have a 5 run lead, you don't leave the pitcher in the game and allow the other team to come back within a run or lose the lead. their record against the AL east is atrocious and they still have a ton of games left against those teams. (or better yet, a ton of games left against winning teams). if this team does not do something soon, they can look forward to another 4th place finish in the division. vernon wells is overpaid and hasn't done much this season. the team needs to stop hitting the injury bug to have some hope. the pitching staff has not been getting it done lately. i say give cito a couple more weeks or maybe a month before the team decides if action is necessary.

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agree

Never liked Cito even in the World Series years. I think he is best suited as a bench coach/ hitting instructor.
His moves… or lack of moves have left the team dead in the water. Recent example, bringing the brutal BJ Ryan with a one-run lead in Sunday’s game. Why!!!! Bring in guys who can get somebody out, not Ryan. If you have to bring in League, Frasor or Carlson earlier than usual to stop the bleeding. Than hope the bats can add to the lead. Cito ended up bringing those three pitchers in after the Yanks took the lead anyway. Use them when you have a lead not when your losing.

by purplebutz on Jul 6, 2009 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ryan’s ERA before this outing was better then Leagues.

And Carlson has not been good this year.. so not quite sure what you are getting at. Ryan had a good June to bring down his stats to the levels they were at.

Gotta love Hindsight, you can shout and curse all you want about bringing in BJ, but someone needs to bridge the gap to Frasor because you can’t have him go out there and pitch 5 innings.

'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.

by JohnnyG on Jul 6, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The other half is Cito knows things we don't...

Accardo and Camp weren’t available. He knew he couldn’t expect more than an inning from League, Carlson or Frasor. Maybe could have pushed Frasor for a second inning I guess. Had we tied the game, I don’t know who would have come in after Frasor. Mills?

by Tom Dakers on Jul 6, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i thought mills pitches on tuesday . . .

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Jul 6, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he is too, but we could find someone else to start if Mills needed to go in

by Tom Dakers on Jul 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This "collapse" is hardly Cito's fault

And you mentioned it yourself.

The bullpen is so wildly inconsistant, how can he possible make the right decision? There is approximately 400 pitchers on the DL. If Richmond pitches yesterday, the Jays probably win with that run support. How is this Citos fault?

Its so easy to blame Cito and ask for his head. Truthfully, the Jays have had a terrible string of bad luck and there is not a manager in the world that could successfully manage a team with such turnover in the rotation and bullpen

Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.

by craig in calgary on Jul 6, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that's what amazes me about the 'fire Cito' folks....

our top what 7 starters have all been hurt either for the season or for periods of the season and Cito doesn’t get credit for keeping the team from going down the drain? Man, find another manager that could do that.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 6, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad to see...

some support here for Cito. Who knew we would lose all those pitchers, and still continue to lose them. He moved Rios and Wells down the order, not much he can do to get rid at this stage, and they have responded after a fashion. Glad we hung on (literally) to beat the Yanks today! We could so easily have one two more games (if Doc had a better game, if Scott Richmond pitched…if, if, if)

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride…

by Ms_Canuck on Jul 6, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The truth is...

Cito is not a sexy manager. He doesn’t make many in-game moves and he’s reluctant to make changes. I can see where many fans (and I include myself) want him to do something, anything to prevent a bad inning get worse, improve the chance of getting another run or two, or stopping a losing streak. But it’s not just his nature.

Cito is a player’s manager and is intensely loyal to his players. In some ways, in his mind he’s still a player and thus too empathetic to what it’s like to play. I think that is why he rarely pinch hits, bunts, or voluntarily makes changes to the batting order. I’ll bet he hated it happening to him and so does not like to do it to his players.

Cito is a minimalist manager. It’s just who he is. He may lose a number of games because of the moves he does not make, but he generally ends up with a decent record at the end of the season.

by siggian on Jul 7, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well course, we can't tell if he costs us games with his moves or lack there of

cause we can’t see what would have happened with changes. But that he is above .500 with the pitching injuries we’ve had, it is hard to imagine any ‘genus’ manager doing better.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 7, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs