Sometimes the Pen wins one for and sometimes they lose one for you, today was the latter: Jays lose to Yankees
Other than the 4 run 8th against our pen that was a fun game, but other than running into the iceberg I'm sure the Titanic was a nice cruise. Jesse Carlson pitched a good inning yesterday but today not so much. A leadoff homer by Hideki Matsui on a full count pitch, that he just crushed, tied the game. Then a Yankee Stadium special that just barely cleared the wall and Joe Inglett's glove in right gave the Yankees the lead. An out and a double later and Josh Roenicke was in the game. A couple of singles off him and we were down by 3.
Scott Richmond had a tough first couple of innings, giving up two runs in the first. that could have been much worse if Mark Teixeira hadn't tried to score from first on a double. Vernon Wells threw him out by 20 feet or so. In the second Richmond gave up another run but got of the inning with the bases loaded, so that could have been worse too. After that he pitched 4 innings allowing just 1 hit and 1 walk.
Offensively we got 5 runs on 7 hits, helped out by homers by Randy Ruiz and Edwin Encarnacion. Ruiz looked over-matched at the plate other than his homer. Lyle Overbay had the really big hit, a bases clearing double that brought us back from 3-0.
Joe Inglett made a great catch at the wall in the 5th, if he was 6 inches taller he would have had two great catches today and Encarnacion made a diving stop then threw out the runner at second from a seated position. If he keeps playing like this we are going to have to rethink the E5 nickname.
Jays of the Day are Overbay (.179 WPA), Jeremy Accardo (.110) and Richmond. Suckage Jays are Carlson (-.563) and Vernon Wells (-.099). Wells is borderline as far as the number were concerned and did throw a runner out at the plate, but trying to pull outside pitches in a park where if he goes with the ball and gets it in the air at all it can go out.
Tomorrow at 1:00 Eastern we have the rubber game of the series, with Ricky Romero (10-5, 3.66) going up against A.J. Burnett (10-5, 3.67). I don't remember a game where both pitchers had the same record and where just .01 apart in ERA before. It should be a good one.
In other Jay news they now intend to have Shawn Marcum finish the season in the minors, instead of bringing him up later this month as they earlier planed.
"He's healthy," Ricciardi said. "There's nothing wrong with him, but there's no reason to rush him. He's going to pitch next year for us. He'll be like 17 months post-op at that time. He feels good. We'll probably just keep throwing him, but there's really probably no need to get him to the big leagues at this point.
I'm glad, I don't see that anything will be gained by bringing him up now. Unless, of course, they were to release Millar to make room for him.
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I hate Carlson.
Just a pathetic effort from him. I wonder which Jesse is going to show up next season.
As for Marcum, it’s probably the right approach, even though I was super jacked to see him back in the lineup. North of Steeles is worth the wait.
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
I hate the fact that Carlson was played in that situation. I mean, would the Jays have played League after an outing last night? Heck no. Would the Jays have played Camp after an outing last night? Heck no. But march Carlson out again? Sure no problem. It is freakin ridiculous.
It was a tight game, one run lead, no room for error. The correct move was either (1) keep Accardo in who was doing fine or (2) bring out a fresh pitcher who has not played in the past couple of games.
Carlson has a history of giving up the occasional dinger this year + he threw the night before. Wrong, wrong, wrong decison to play him. I put this loss 100% on bench mgmt. Super PO’d.
by aagoodfella on Aug 12, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
oh I think they likely would have used League but just not at that moment.
They weren’t going to use Frasor as he pitched 3 days in a row but relievers often pitch two days in a row. I figured the plan was to use League in the 9th. That inning started with a couple of lefties and that’s where they would have liked Carlson. In defense of the move, Matsui has hit homers off a lot of guys and the next homer would have been a fly out anywhere else.
i think the optimal move was to leave Accardo in
i think Carlson is fine, he was just not the correct tool for that job, so I am really peeved cuz it was an unnecessary loss IMHO
that said, no matter who they put in last night in the 8th, realistically, I would not have expected them to hold the Yankees scoreless through 9th — too much hitting there — but I think it could have been contained to one run
by aagoodfella on Aug 12, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
you think WRONG!!!
lol what happened happened, the bullpen has been great since the half i blame sportsnet for jinxing it by telling us they had the best ERA since the break
so yeah blame sportsnet for the jinx
by bowling_kid25 on Aug 12, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe could have left Accardo in but two lefties were leading off the inning
and most of those guys in the late innings are 1 inning pitchers.
I dunno. Had we gone 1-2-3 in the eighth we wouldn’t of hit Teix and A-rod in the ninth.
I can’t fault Cito for using Carlson, Im convinced League was for the 9th. It just really sucks that we lost it.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Accardo and Roenicke were both preferences over Carlson IMHO
by aagoodfella on Aug 12, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I can understand that
Roenicke didn’t do great when he came in. You never know what might have happened.
Carlson needs to GTFO
He just isnt that good. he played well last year for some reason, but he just sucks.
Onions Baby Onions
Carlson isn't as bad as he's looked
his FIP this season, at 3.83, is lower than it should be, but he’s also run into really bad luck with respect to stranding runners. He has looked particularly bad at times this year, but — in the interest of being fair to him — that homerun Posada hit would have been a flyout in any other stadium. He was bad today, but he wouldn’t have looked nearly so bad if Yankee Stadium wasn’t such a joke. Might as well play at Baker Bowl.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
If, when you're good, you don't allow runners at all, and when you're bad, you don't record outs at all
then you can’t say you got unlucky with stranding runners.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Good point, though,
there must be some degree of luck involved in how quickly Cito pulls him and whether or not the next pitcher strands the runner
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Carlson Sucks
If Brandon League were in there instead of that sucky Carlson, we would have won. Did Cito decide to sent him in there? Cause yesterday the assistant coach used Brandon League and he pitched a scoreless inning. I will stop watching the Jays if they don’t get rid of Carlson. The same with Scott Downs. He is useless.
If League was in there then who pitches the 9th?
Frasor had gone 3 days in a row. And for that matter, Carlson pitched a scoreless inning yesterday too.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
i am just saying Carlson's stuff is too weak
Brandon League has a much nastier set of pitches than Carlson. League has been pretty much untouchable so why use Carlson who obviously even struggled yesterday when he had to battle 10 pitches with one batter? He was lucky he didn’t get hit yesterday. But really, if Cito used anyone else besides Carlson, the Jays would have won.
Roenicke wasn't great when he came in either
and Camp was obviously unavailable
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Carlson is what he is – a relief pitcher. Most relief pitchers aren’t that great. One year they’ll have a good season, the next year not so much. How many relief pitchers, year in and year out, have dominating years??
It seems like a lot of Jay’s fans are really finnicky (is that a word?) right now. One day League is ‘terrible’ and needs to go and the next day he’s the best reliever in the history of time…one day Carlson is ‘terrible’ and needs to go. One day everybody is saying they will no longer be fans of the team if Halladay is traded and the next, everybody is mad at JP because he didn’t trade Halladay. I’m sure next week, or next year someone like Fraser will be ‘terrible’ and needs to go.
And since when is Downs useless?? 2/3 months ago the guy was money and everybody had a man crush on him and now he’s useless and needs to go?? He tried to pitch through an injury and obviously he shouldn’t have but he’s far from useless. He may have been out of place in a closer role, but he’s been a consistent part of this bullpen for a few years now.
If the Jays get a comeback against another relief pitcher, it’s great hitting but when someone hits our relievers, it’s terrible pitching and they all need to go. Carlson was money last year and while he hasn’t been as good this year, I’m not nearly at the point where I’m going to call him ‘terrible.’ Oh yeah, Carlson pitched a scoreless inning in Monday’s game as well, or did you happen to miss that one?
Carlson just needs a demotion to work on his stuff
I still believe he has it in him. He was money last year. We can’t just get rid of every player that struggles in a year.
The only thing we have approaching a situational lefty in Vegas is Rommie Lewis
He’s a fly ball pitcher against lefties and a ground ball pitcher against righties, and he seems to be better at striking out righties than lefties, but SSS applies.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
last year I thought
Davis Romero would be a good situational lefty in the majors – he dominated them. This year – not so much.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Another Tough Loss
Richmond again struggled to get going but was good after that…i woulda pushed him further he was at 97 pitches when they pulled? he hasn’t thrown in awhile..make him go one more..but oh well
i really wish i could watch todays game…really really hope RiRo Rolls over AJ =)
isn't the fact that he had such a long layoff and struggled his last start
a reason to go easy on him in terms of pitches?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
so no matter what the case
we shouldn’t push these professional athletes
rather they thrown too much or not enough?
they get paid for a reason !!!!!!!!!
guess doesn’t matter now, over use the bullpen and save starters for next year….
by bowling_kid25 on Aug 12, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep your right, let’s push them a bunch after a long layoff and blow their arms. Good idea.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
If he doesn't throw in his off days to practice/stay in shape then its his fault...
by bowling_kid25 on Aug 12, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
and whats the most hes thrown?
he could have even faced another 1-2 batters and stayed at a max of 110
its not like pitchers dont go beyond 100 im not asking for 150-200 jus saying the argument to save the starters and use the bullpen when thats already overworked is very strange
I don’t have the numbers but i can prob bet the bullpen (carlson especially) is pushing career numbers for most outings
by bowling_kid25 on Aug 12, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
thing about pitchers is they are all individuals
The guy hadn’t pitched in awhile, you don’t push his limits, we have enough starters on the DL at the moment.
sigh im sick of this already
the fact is both sides have no idea whos call it was and why it was called
Richmond was tired said no more
Gaston wouldnt push cause hes afraid
Gaston wouldnt push cause he feels richmond is tired
Whatever the issue it can only be speculated we are not there talking to them
it was just a thought
by bowling_kid25 on Aug 12, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
He does throw in off days to stay in shape, but it was his second start since coming off the DL, Which was a decent amount of time off. I would hope to god he wasn’t doing his regular off day sessions while on the DL because that would of made the matter worse.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Teixeira
That play was hilarious. How often do you see a guy be out by that far at home?? What was their 3rd base coach thinking?
If I was Barajas, I would have been crapping myself after I caught the ball though – I thought for sure Tex was gonna nail him!
Nice to see Ruiz get a homer in his first game with the Jays (he’s a big boy!) Looks like he has good bat speed although I can see why his strikeout/walk ratio is so high. Nice to see EE get one too, and off of Mariano. I thought all in all, it was a good game again last night – too bad we couldn’t pull of the win.
I remember that play
I’m a Yankees fan and I have NO IDEA why he was sent home. I mean, I know he’s a good baserunner but if there’s anything he can’t do is he isn’t all that fast! Although I suppose there is always the possibility that the Yankees wanted Cano to hit with bases empty and not with RISP. Cano is our bases empty MVP! haha

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