The report card (Jays style)
by valter on Aug 9, 2009 11:31 AM EDT
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Although there's still lot's of baseball to be played, most of us agree the planning for next year
most likely has already begun. With all the negatives this club has experienced this year, there's been
plenty of positives we should look forward to going into next year.. With that, it's important to assess
the role of those in the current roster...
C
JEREMY ACCARDO After such a geat season two years ago, he has not regained the same
form this season and with already so much young pitching depth he might
not be in this team's plans for next year.
C
SHAWN CAMP It's been an up and down year for the veteran rightander, but he has been more
consistent in the second half of this season.
D
JESSE CARLSON After an outstanding season last year, he has to be one of the major
dissapointments of our bullpen. However, lately he has been more affective.
A
BRETT CECIL He struggled after his first callup from Las Vegas, but has since shown this
organization he deserves to be part of this starting rotation for a long time.
A+
ROY HALLADAY Wtihout any doubt the class of this organization both on and off the field. Despite
the adversity of this team on the field this year, he continues to perform consistently at a high level.
A
JASON FRASOR Before the season started, he added a breaking ball to his collection pitches,
which in essence made him a more complete pitcher coming out of the bullpen and
the results have spoken.
D
BRANDON LEAGUE Coming into this season, Cito Gaston was super high on this guy.
Considering how hard he can throw and the potential he brings to the table, it's been one of those
years when called upon from the bullpen, you just don't know which Brandon League is going to
show up.
B+
SCOTT RICHMOND A 30-year old rookie who has for the most part answered the call whether
it's been in the rotation or coming out of the bullpen.
A-
RICKY ROMERO If not with last encouragement from pitching coach Brad Arnsberg, it's hard to
believe this guy would not even be with this club at the start of the season. Oustanding season and
a worthy candidate for rookie of the year.
B
MARK RZEPCZYNSKI Great potential and shown impressive maturity for a young pitcher..
B
BRIAN TALLET Thrown in the starting rotation to fill in for Jesse Litsch and responded
with the second highest amount of quality starts by Jays starters so far this year.
A
ROD BARRAJAS Has put up decent numbers for a catcher this year, but more significantly
has a done a masterful job by handling the young and inexperienced pitching staff.
B
RAUL CHAVEZ Solid backup to Barrajas and reliable defensively when called upon
to throw out speedy runners.
A+
ARON HILL In my opinion the MVP of this team. He has been the most consistent player offensively
for this team this season and just as flawless in his defensive position at second.
B
JOHN MACDONALD His play has been limited this year, and it's always a delight watching him
play on the field when he's given the opportunity.
D+
KEVIN MILLAR had quite a good start to the season, but since has been brutal to say the least.
C
LYLE OVERBAY A very unpredictable year for a guy who certainly has the potential to put up
better numbers than he has shown this year.
A+
MARCO SCUTARO Without question the surprise of the team this year. Best OBP on the team
played like an allstar in the SS posiiton and hitting nearly the .300 mark most of the season this far.
B
JOSE BAUTISTA Amongst the league leaders in assists playing only in limited time. But below an
average hitter.
C
JOE INGLETT Has been called up twice and making very little impact. Time is running out on
opportunities for him to play at the major league level with this organization.
C
ALEX RIOS As bad a first half of the season he had, he has been able to make better contact in the
second half and in the process drive in a few more runs and hit a few more balls out of the ballpark.
D
VERNON WELLS It's been a mjor underachieving year in all categories for this guy, especially in
HR"S and RBI's. Watching him hit nearly .300 with bases empty and around .205 with men on
base is just puzzling.
A+
ADAM LIND What a year and a great future he has in front of him. Hitting the ball hard to both sides
of the field, driving in runs, hitting for average and putting a few balls over the fence, is certainly
been fun to watch....
B
CITO GASTON It's been a very difficult year to manage a team that has sustained so many
key injuries to his pitching staff. But the biggest problem to resolve has been finding a way to
get hitters to drive in runs in scoring position, which is something that has contrbuted significantly
his team collapse after a 27-14 record to begin the season.
A
BRAD ARNSBERG a commanding job handling and teaching avery young stafff that filled in
so many holes due to injuries this season.
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League deserves more than a D
Id rather see him out there than anyone in the bullpen besides Frasor right now.
Onions Baby Onions
Yup
Though maybe he should have 2 grades – 1st inning of work = B+ or A-; 2nd inning of work = F.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
yea, the D for League is crazy
the guy has had some amazing outings and some weak ones, but he is very predictable and you can tell after a few pitches if he is on or not …. so if he has a bad outing, frankly i tend to view it as mgmt’s problem because they do not pull him right away
Barajas gets a B, because his hitting has been off and on (although this is consistent with his career pattern)
LOL.......
Since 2004 when he participated in 3-games, League still has not lived up to the expectations this organization had when they drafted him in the 2nd round of the 2001 MLB draft. In his major league career, 5 wins, 8 losses, 2 saves and 7 blown saves with 4.10 career ERA, is hardly impressive by anyone’s books, especially someone with his potential. This year, the only good stat he has is 6-holds, one behind Carlson who has 7 and is not even having good season himself.. Jason Frasor has been the most consistent pitcher out of the bullpen for us this year and it’s insane to compare League to what Frasor has done this year….
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
I had promised myself not to engage this silliness
but League has already had 2 excellent seasons and is actually pitching quite well this year but has had ridiculously bad luck – check out his tRA and FIP if you don’t believe me.
It’s bad enough to “LOL” at people with whom you don’t agree (and, by the way, quit doing that please, it’s totally inappropriate) but when you are the one with the poor argument, it’s all the more problematic.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Compliance is necessary here...my opology
It was not my attention to provoke or rattle someone’s cage with the LOL terminology…
Regarding Brandon League pitching quite well this year. I not only completely disagree, but I strongly believe most Jays fans will also support my notion. You mentioned he had two excellent years.
In 2006, he was 1-2 with a save and 3 blown saves but in only 42.2 inning of work. and in 2008 he was 1-2 with 2.18 but in only 33.1 innings of work.. Again my argument here is not just about a pitcher, but someone who was once touted as the best pitching prospect in this organization. Yes, he has shown a little more consistency in the second half of this season, but he is still very unpredictable coming out of our bullpen. Example: Last outing against the Orioles down only 4-3, he comes in and gives up two key runs which ended up being the difference in a 7-5 loss.
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
I disagree strongly with you use of win/loss record as an indicator of performance.
Win – Loss record can be strongly influenced by batters. See Jason Frasor this year.
And you can’t just use one outing as examples That is such a small sample size.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Opinions are what they are...
As I clearly outlined above…it’s about expectation and the potential he originally brought to this team which continues to let down this organization…wins/losses are not the point, the career stats are just a clear demonstration how little he has accomplished in his five year tenure in the major leagues.
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
his career ERA+ is 108
including this season, where he has mostly been unlucky. He’s had two seasons where he was way above average – including last year where he was almost twice as productive as the average major-league pitcher.
Meaning he is an above-average major-league pitcher. Maybe he’s fallen short of your expectations, but to say he as “let down the organization” and cite his win-loss record in support of your argument doesn’t get you very far.
There are opinions and there are opinions that are backed up by evidence and reason.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
win loss has nothing to do with anything, especially with a RP
also, he has been extremely unlucky. For example, if you watched the Os game he pitched in, you;d know he gave up ground balls and a ball off his glove… he isnt getting hit hard when he pitches badly (for the most part) and when he pitches well hes untouchable.
Onions Baby Onions
I agree...
Just because he has not lived up to his potential, doesn’t necessarily mean he is never gong to eclipse his current struggles and become a better pitcher. This guy has an amazing moving fastball and a wicked slider and he’s only 26-years of age and there’s no reason why we should pull the plug on him at this point.. However, the Blue Jays been patient for five years, how long can we expect them to hold their breath on this guy…
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
Its not like hes a huge problem in our bullpen
when hes on (half the time) hes lights out, and when hes not on hes a bit wild and gives up some runs. Hes a pretty average RP when you put it all together, so hes hardly a hindrance… Id rather have him in there than Carlson or Camp or people like that.
And i always though his out pitch was some sort of splitter thing rather than a slider. When hes on that pitch is absolutely untouchable.
I wish hed get some Rick Vaughn glasses and just be our closer. I honestly think that if he got more playing time and a vote of confidence from Cito he could sort his issues out and be great.
Onions Baby Onions
it is far more than half the time that he is on too.
in 13 games since the start of July he gave up runs in 2 of them. In June he had 3 games he gave up multiple runs. In May he gave up runs in 2 of 9 appearances, 1 run in one of the games. And in April he gave up runs in 2 of 11 game. The unfortunate thing is when you are a reliever, if you give up multiple runs in a game it takes a long while for your ERA to recover. He has given up more than one run 8 times this year, too many, but 8 of 46 is a lot less than half.
OBP is the least....
Hitting 10 homers, driving nearly 50 RBI’s at this point with well over a month left to play, certainly is more than this organization expected from him. Since the all-star break, the Jays pitching staff is second in team ERA in the AL and again that’s a tribute to the leadership & guidance Barrajas has provided for the number of young pitchers who have come up from the farm system this season. THIS IS A HUGE AND A VERY SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION that deserves recognition….
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
Yes I agree,
But does that contribution deserve an A grade?
I am not saying Barajas should be an F but A seems a bit high.
I know this list is a personally preference type of thing so I won’t say much about it, but you can’t be surprised that there are arguments for and against some of your rankings.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
I like Barajas' defense too
but to give him credit for the pitchers is off the mark. The Jays’ pitching (again with a lot of young pitchers) did well with Zaun catching last year too, and was one of the best staffs in the league in ‘07 (again with a lot of young pitchers) with Zaun and Molina. It’s tempting to assign credit to the catcher, but more likely is that the Jays have had one of the best infield (and overall) defenses in the league each of those years.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I think its a combo of Barajas/the Infield/Pitching coach/Teammate Support/Doc Teachings/Cito/Minor League coaching/High School coaching/Team therapist/George Poulis/JP/Chavez/Friends and Family/The Outfield……..
Did I miss anyone?
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
don't forget Butters
here’s hoping he can work some magic with E5 in the spring next year
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Go Butters!
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Obviously........it's a team effort...
It would be ridiculous for anyone to claim Barrajas is the ENTIRE reason why the Jays young pitching staff have been so affective this year. However, he certainly deserves a lot of credit for talking, calming & encouraging our young pitchers when ever they’ve been in troublesome situations….
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
I have no problem with giving him a little bonus
but that doesn’t mean he deserves an A.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
or a B
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
The real question is
What are the grades based on? Are they for expected performance for that person or are they for relative performance against his peers?
I’d argue that Rod has done just about what we expected of him, perhaps a little bit better. My gut feeling is that he is slightly above average catcher.
(I await being pelted with statistics showing that my gut is wrong or right)
I don’t have any statistics but I can throw these timbits at you…. will that do?
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
Absolutely...
That’s exactly what is based on, expectations..and Barrajas certainly has fulfilled that bill….
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
In that case. I disagree with Chavez. I think he has performed above expectations in his backup role. Considering he was the 3rd catcher to start the year.
I also think Camp has performed above what was expected of him.
And in the very very limited time Johnny Mac has been on the field he has made a few errors so I would think a lower then B grade should suffice since he is expected to pretty much only come in for his D.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
you must have really
expected Barajas to be awful at the plate. He’s 1/2 a win above a replacement level player now, on pace for one of the worst seasons of his career. His .285 wOBA is brutal.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I'm not a Barajas fan at all
and I didn’t expect him to be near this bad this year. I don’t know why you’d expect him to be worse than he was last year. He’s had a full year of Cito’s batting instruction.
At the end of the day....
I think management are very satisfied with what he’s accomplished for the Jays this season…not to say we shouldn’t try to improve in that position even if it’s meaning going after a good young catcher like Canadian RUSSEL MARTIN of the Dodgers…
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
if they are happy with his performance this year
it shows why the team is spinning its wheels
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
early on I was happy, but his hitting performance has trailed off quite a bit of late
by aagoodfella on Aug 14, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I afraid if that makes a team happy, I'm cheering for the wrong guys,
He’s at 0.5 WAR, which would have him above Dioner Navarro of the Rays. But trailing Zaun and Wieter, Variteck and Posada. Chavez is at 0.3 WAR, considering he hasn’t played that much, maybe we’d be better off with him starting.
It's all good...
It’s awesome to have the different feedback from each and everyone of you…..keep it up…
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
I would give Wells an F. Jerry and Allan were talking about him on the weekend. Basically he’s starting to hit the ball now and he may end up with decent numbers at the end of the season. But as they mentioned it doesn’t matter because he did not perform when it mattered most and it mattered most when the team was close. Now it’s too late and he can hit all the home runs he wants and pad the stats but sometimes the stats don’t tell the tale of the tape.
by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Aug 11, 2009 12:48 AM EDT reply actions
so
you think Wells is so ridiculously good that he can just turn it on whenever he feels like it?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
perhaps not, but a disturbing trend of late season strenght at the expense of mid- to early-season performance is just not going to get the job done
hopefully it is a trend that does not persist — consistency would be nice
it would, I agree
but it is not a character flaw to be playing well at this point in the season, as some seem to think.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
agreed, and in fact, I would even characterize a step up in late season play as a virtue
unfortunately, if it is just on offset to substandard mid-season play, it is not worth so much
by aagoodfella on Aug 11, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No. I think he is good when the pressure is off.
by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Aug 11, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder
if it would be possible for such a player to ever make the major leagues. I doubt it.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
This is one thing I don't think people appreciate
I feel like the pressure you feel when you’re 17 and scouts are watching you is far greater than when you’re already making millions of dollars.
On the one hand, Wells cracks under pressure, but on the other hand, he doesn’t care whether the team wins or loses. If he doesn’t care whether the team wins or loses, how does he feel pressure to crack under?
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Confidence............
Like any professional athlete, I have a consensus Wells’ struggles have come at the expense of losing his confidence at the beginning of the season when he could not get the bat going. He then fell in a trap, where he was chasing pitches out of the striking zone, which compounded the problem for him to put more pressure on himself when batting with runners on base….
"Sports is something you know, not something you should preach.'
VW startded off fine
for the first ~1 and 1/3 months Wells was hitting consistent with his career stats
(avg, obp, slg, ops)
through May 9
(286, 340. 471, 811)
career stats
(281, 329, 473, 803)
it was near the end of the Oakland series in early May that he started tanking and never fully recovered
by aagoodfella on Aug 12, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Well its because he didn’t start as hot as Lind. Scutaro and Hill that people percieved he was doing poorly and then he actually did start to do poorly which made it worse.
'But I don't want to go among mad people' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that' said the Cat 'we're all mad here'.
yep
but he started the season fine
i would like to know what happened after mid-may
by aagoodfella on Aug 12, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I suspect he started to put too much pressure on himself
As the team tailed off in offense, he tried to put it on himself to be the “man”. I think that VW has a lot of good intentions and tries hard, but for him, trying to be the focus has bad effects on him.
Just my theory anyway.
IMO ... grades I'd change
League: C+ has lacked consistency or the grade would be higher; yes he hasn’t fufilled his potential but better than a D
Camp: B- has exceeded my expectations and done a comendable job for a long reliever / middle innings guy … a lot of his runs given up have come when overused
Accardo: B- has gotten a raw deal from the Jays, needs to be traded, given a fresh start
Cecil: B+ looks promising but he’s not done as well as Romero
Downs B (A before the injury)
Barajas: C+ does a decent job catching and calling a game and has a better arm than Zaun did but still gives up too many SB, is weak blocking the plate, and his hitting has really tailed off
Hill A: his average has tailed off otherwise an A+
Inglett: C- improving now that he has had some consistent playing time, decent utility player
Wells: C- still a better than average glove, okay at the plate when no one’s on base, and nice speed on the basepaths … just hasn’t been able to bear the weight of that contract and the high expectations that come with it
Bautista: C started off well, has tailed off … needs consistent playing time for confidence
'some witty quote'
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