Thanks Jorge Posada for reminding me why I hate the Yankees
by Tom Dakers on Sep 16, 2009 11:24 AM EDT
in Analysis
40 comments
If anyone ever needed to wonder why I dislike the Yankees so much, Jorge Posada gave a perfect demonstration of what I dislike about them. The sense of entitlement. In the four game series last week in Toronto, Yankee pitchers hit 6 Jays, including Randy Ruiz in the face. Yesterday Edwin Encarnacion hits a homer, his next time up to bat he is hit with a pitch. In the 8th Aaron Hill is drilled in the ribs with a pitch. In the bottom of the inning Jesse Carlson throws behind Posada. Behind him. The ball's about thigh level, not head level, not rib cage level, not even shin high. Right at the level you throw to make a point, without the worry of injuring someone.
And Posada throws a temper tantrum. How dare they throw towards me? A Yankee? Just cause we are using your players for target practice? "You don't want to do that", he yells at Carlson. Now I could understand that reaction, if say the pitch was at his head. Or even at his ribs. Or perhaps, if it were in retaliation for a homer hit in the last at bat. But no, that reaction was just because he is a Yankee and God forbid you come close to hitting one of those. You would think that Posada having been in the league for years would know that if you hit half a dozen or so of the other team's players, intentional or not, sooner or later a pitch will come towards you. Take it like a man.
Now Jesse Carlson has been one of my favorite Jays since early last season, when he came into a game with the bases loaded and no one out and got out of the inning without a run scoring. We named him Cy that day. I know he had a rough stretch earlier this season, when Cito was putting him into every game and he tired. And I know that Cito is doing the same again, and even though he is throwing great now, sooner or later he'll tire again. But Carlson place in my heart grew three sizes larger yesterday.
Carm asked just before Cy's moment with Posada "why are the Jays being hit so much?" Well, because until that moment opposing pitchers knew they could throw at Jay batters without fear of retaliation. After Hill was hit, Rod Black mentioned that the Jays have been hit more times than any other MLB team in the month of September. I think he said we've been hit 16 time, he said the team hit the second most is the Red Sox with 6 times over the same period. We will see if they get as much the rest of the month.
A little later in the day we'll put up links to other people's reaction to last night's fun, but you can share your's here.
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The only good thing about the yanks being in the playoffs is that there is someone to cheer against.
by BigTimeBlueJayFan on Sep 16, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions
Posada Started it.
Hi Blue Jays fans. I agree with you about Posada and the Yankees. I’m a Tigers fan here in Michigan. Carlson threw behind him. Did not even hit him. The Yankees are an arrogant team. Most people here in the States hate the Yankees. I hope the Tigers beat them in the playoffs like they did in 06. The only trouble is-The Tigers may blow it-as far as winning the division. They have so many injuries right now. Just remember-There are a lot of Yankee haters here in the States also.
Hey Curtis
As a Jays fan I can say if you do play the Yanks in the playoffs, I’ll be a huge Tigers fan!
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 16, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Check out Peter Abraham's comment
Jesse Carlson is a two-bit middle reliever on a fourth-place team, a 28-year-old guy who has been with four organizations. No matter where he stands or what he says or anything else, Jorge Posada needs to avoid confrontation. Give Carlson a dirty look. Don’t give MLB a reason to suspend you.
What an idiot. Why take personal shots at Carlson like that. Like you said Tom, Jesse did EXACTLY what he should do in that situation.
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 16, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
put Peter Abraham on the list ...
… of Yanks who deserve a good butt-whupping (1) Posada (2) Arod (3) Abraham
My disdain for the Yankees was waning somewhat, but last night they re-kindled the fire! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
by aagoodfella on Sep 16, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Jorge Posada is a two-bit punk of a catcher on an overpriced arrogent team, a 38-year-old guy who who has been slowly breaking down with his parasitical organization. No matter how lippy and mouthy he gets or how much he sticks his non-existent shin out or anything else, Jesse Carlson needs to take none of it. Break Posada’s giant Mister Potatohead nose. Don’t give YES a reason to crow about how untouchable their team is.
That sounds more like objective journalism, right?
by dexfarkin on Sep 16, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Can we turn this comment green?
Rec’d
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 16, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Jorge
Carlson was absolutely looking to start something – LOOK AT THE VIDEO. He is standing right in front of Posada as he is coming off the field, NOT with his back to him (???). Don’t blame the Yanks just because the BJs don’t stand up for themselves when they’re hit. Your boy “Cy” learned a very valuable lesson: there are some players you can hit, and some you can’t.
by Fan of Team That Actually WIns on Sep 16, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
Shut up and go away you troll.
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 16, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Bwhahaha
That’s funny. I hope to god the jays throw at Jorge’s head tonight, or any other over priced, whiny Yankee on the roster. Ya your team might “actually win” but at least we didn’t have to use steroids to do it.
Get Your Facts Str8
Every team has had a steroid addicted player, including the Jays. Canseco, Clemens, Glaus, Zaun etc.
by The Last Shall Become First on Sep 16, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Get your facts straight.
You are a troll and are about to be banned.
The Yankees are the epitome of whats wrong with baseball which is the very reason I’m going to cheer my ass off for whatever team you face. Your team is bought and sold and will be exposed in the playoffs when AJ’s ERA balloons to 20 and Aroid hits .127
Go away.
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 16, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The steroids comments are undeserved
It was all over baseball.
Buddy has to realize Posada was at fault as well. And Carlson should be commended a bit for retaliation after three high beanballs in the last 2 games.
And I think A-Roid should be plunked in the ass. I am still bitter about the Howie Clark incident from several years ago.
Wow....
who is this guy, does he not understand how baseball works?!?! Carlson was there because like every big league pitcher he was covering home and Posada who had the whole field to move out of the way and instead ran right into Carlson. You’re a typical NY tool
To be fair..
He wasn’t backing up home plate he was near it, but he wasn’t backing up. The ball was hit to right, he was in line with the third base line except behind. If the ball came from 3rd base or the left field line, fine, but it wasn’t. I think Carlson was there looking for trouble, why else would he stop there? Posada shouldn’t have ran into him, but Carlson was definitely looking for a reason to fight.
by qu on Sep 16, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t run into him, He was running past him and threw his elbow up to tap him as he went by.
It was akin to Sean Avery hitting Tim Thomas in the head with his stick as his slowly skated by. He didn’t do it to hurt, he did it to piss off Thomas, Just as Poseda did this to piss off Carlson
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
You had to be reminded why you hate the Yankees?
As both a Red Sox and Dodger fan, I never have to be reminded. Any team playing the Yankees is my third favorite team. I actually like many of the Yankee players, but Posada and A-Rod are impossible to like. I know Posada is a hothead, but I thought he was a lot smarter than he showed last night.
A Horrible Act By A Horrible Team
The reason the Jays fans hate the Yankees so much is simple… their team is a disgrace to the MLB. With the Yankees, Sox and the Rays in the East there is almost no hope that the Jays will ever make it. And that team has wasted the career of one of the most best pitchers to ever play the game, Doc Holliday. He has played 12 seasons with the Jays and he has not appeared in one playoff game. Here’s hoping that Holliday finally breaks free and joins a team that has at least a small chance of making the playoffs and the MLB does to the Toronto Blue Jays what they did to the Montreal Expos…get rid of them.
by The Last Shall Become First on Sep 16, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions
Uh, Matt Holliday plays for the Cards and isn’t a pitcher. There is no such player as Doc Holliday.
If you’re referring to Roy ‘Doc’ Halladay, that’s a much different story. Considering that Doc plays for a baseball team, as opposed the mercenary crew that spends obscene amounts of money without any regard to the game itself, I don’t see how keeping his integrity intact by avoiding the prostitution of playing for the Yankees is wasting his career. After all, after nearly a decade and over a billion spent in pants down, bent over the table for the cash baseball the Yankees are playing, they’ve got exactly the same number of World Series wins as the Jays.
by dexfarkin on Sep 16, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to laugh every time someone always mentions the Rays as some kind of elite team now. Last season was a FLUKE, get it right. Before last season, I’m sure you would have said “With the Yankees and Sox in the East there is almost no hope that the Rays will ever make it.” Well guess what? They did. That proves that anything can happen. Half my problem with the Yankees is their fans, because most are completely arrogant and ignorant and don’t know their heads from their ass.
All teams have bad fans
Yankees, Red Sox, and Blue Jays included. The Yankees may seem to have more bad fans, because they also have more total fans than everyone else.
You think the Yankees players were hitting the Jays on Purpose?
Not trying to troll over here, but that is ridiculous. We’ve been pitching guys like Mitre, Melancon, and Towers at you guys, and every other team. They are bad pitchers without good control. In fact, they have TERRIBLE control. What do you expect? I agree that Posada’s actions were stupid and uncalled for. Going into the playoffs the Yankees didn’t need that. We don’t need injury risks or suspensions. But I seriously doubt that any of the HBP for you guys have been on purpose. For example, you bring up the HBP in the face. That was on purpose? The bases were loaded! And it was 0-2. Now, Towers must have been pretty stupid to throw at someone on purpose there.
Posada was stupid yesterday, I agree with that. But don’t blame the entire Yankees team for it, and say, “this is why I hate the Yankees”. Not all the players are like Posada. He’s a fierce guy. He’s good to have on the team most of the time. But we have guys like Jeter, Teixeira, Damon, Rivera, Pettitte, Sabathia, Burnett, and lately, believe it or not, even A-Rod, have all been classy this year. Don’t judge the entire team based on the past, or one action by one player, because thats not fair.
And for the people who brought up steroids, any real fan should know that they were across baseball, not just on the Yankees.
Yes, steroids were across baseball, but Yankees seemed to have picked up more than their fair share of prominent cases (eg Clemons, Giambi, A-Roid). Mind you, it could be a product of them spending a lot of money signing ’roided players with inflated stats than actually having home grown problems.
I seem to recall that Towers had pretty good control when he was with the Jays. He didn’t have much else, that’s for sure. I’m not saying that the pitch to Ruiz was deliberate, though.
FWIW
Josh Towers = .17 walks/inning career
Sergio Mitre = .34 walks/inning career
Mark Melancon = .61 walks/inning over a very limited career
Agree with NYY rocks 29 somewhat
Even if the Hits batsman weren’t on purpose, they were still very high and inside and resulted in beans. It is one thing to set up for the outside pitch, but it did happen three times with no retaliation.
You do need to agree that Carlson had the right to throw behind Posada as a “we can throw inside too” type pitch. Posada should have expected it. It didn’t hit him and was more of a warning pitch…like hey Yankee shitty pitchers quit throwing high inside.
Nothing wrong at all with what Carleson did
If he actually hit Posada than Posada would have had every right to start a brawl. But all he did was throw behind him to send a message. It wasn’t even close to him. Posada overreacted. And in result, got him suspended.
Well, they didn't know that the players were roided when they signed them
Like Clemens and Giambi. They had no idea they were roided. The Yanks have had more accused players then anyone (although I would take Rodriguez off the list, as his use was in Texas), but that is no fault of the organization itself.
Selig is to blame for the steroid era if you ask me. He did NOTHING about it, and let it get to such a high level that it will take a long time for it to go away.
Agreed, the Yankees weren’t signing players they knew were taking steroids. It’s more that they signed a bunch of high priced players, and a fair number of them were taking or had taken steroids to earn that high price.
I agree that Selig is largely to blame, but the player’s union is also in the picture. Even if Selig wanted to put a ban on PEDs, the union would have fought it.
I think it comes down to the institutional attitude of the team, and this being simply a reminder of that. The Yankees have plonked the Jays a lot recently. Virtually all of those times, the expectation was that it was unintentional. But they’ve got a crew of vets that know when you drill the team’s best hitter with a heater under the shoulder blade, it looks bad, and that you’re going to get a little object lesson to tighten it up or not come inside if you can’t control your stuff. This is a lesson these guys should have learned in the minors. Posada’s actions implied that there are two standards in play; one for the Yankees, and one for the rest of baseball, and that’s why people hate the Yankees.
To be fair, it’s not Posada’s fault. The fault goes all the way back to the 70s when Steinbrenner bought the team, and did what no one thought could be possible and ruined the Yankees. The front office tosses around ridiculous money, knowingly skews the market, and just doesn’t care about the effect on the rest of baseball. But the sense of entitlement and ‘screw you as long as I get what I want’ from the front office does leak on to the field, and that is why the Yankees are so loathed. It’s also not helped when fans attack their division rivals for not being competitive with the gross excesses of their ball club.
well, Josh Towers has had exceptional control over his career
anyway, at some point, even if it’s not on purpose, enough HBPs happen in a short span of time, along with high, inside pitches and it’s normal to take action, within reason. No one threw at Posada’s head and he’s the one behind the plate. He clearly overreacted to proportionate justice.
That said, I’ve often heard Yankees fans complain in the past that their players are getting hit (often by Red Sox pitchers) and their pitchers don’t take action because they feel as though they have to uphold their reputation as a “classy organization.” So there are two sides to every story.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
There's two sides to every story
all the time. I agree with that.
As far as Towers, I don’t know him all that well. My dads a big Orioles fan, and he saw him when he was with Baltimore. He told me Towers was terrible. Being a pitcher in High School, most of the bad pitchers were guys who couldn’t control the ball, and thats often true in the majors, so I assumed Towers didn’t have good control. Why is he so bad then? Just leaves it over the middle?
no good control
but he throws 82 and should be playing in my washed up never was baseball league in the middle of Canada.
Our league isn't close to that good
Beer leagues baseball. Towers would own it…
Towers was good, unbelievably awful, and mediocre for the Jays
at different times, but one thing he always had was pinpoint control. I quote from SB Nation’s scouting report:
Pros: He’s got magnificent command of the strike zone and manages to fool hitters despite a fastball that doesn’t get much above 90 mph.
Flaws: He tends to give up more than his share of hits, but he’s thrifty with the bases on balls so it doesn’t hurt him too much. He also tends to get too fine with his control and that’s when hitters catch up to him.
Personally, I always thought his biggest problem was that he doesn’t have a great fastaball but also doesn’t have a good enough off-speed pitch to keep hitters off balance, so they tend to make very hard contact. Also, he heavily relies on a backdoor slider, which is an extremely dangerous pitch when the batter knows it’s coming
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
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