Jays financial situation for 2011
There’s been a lot of talk lately about the Jays’ offseason, what should be done, and how much money the team will have to spend on acquiring new players. Unfortunately, it seems like not everyone is always on the same page with regards to player costs and savings from various transactions. Therefore, I have created the following list to provide an estimate of what various moves will cost the Jays for the 2011 season and how to come up with money to sign new players (e.g. Manny, Pena, Thome, etc).
This post is meant as a combination reference manual (with 2010 salaries, 2011 guaranteed salaries where applicable, and my estimates for arbitration raises where applicable) and suggestion guide for where I see the Jays going this offseason. Feel free to quibble with my numbers and suggestions, though I think my arbitration raise estimates are probably pretty good. As well, I use only salary numbers, not including pro-rated bonuses.
A huge thanks goes out to Cot's Contracts, a great website that you should all refer to frequently for all your MLB contract, free agency, and arbitration reference needs.
On to the $$$.
Coming off the books – Doc ($10M), Ryan ($6M), Ruiz ($400k) = $16.4M total
Player name 2010 salary 2011 comment
Under contract for 2011 (total guaranteed raises =$16.25M)
Lind $400k $5M = $4.5M raise
Wells $12.5M $23M = $10.5M raise
Romero minimum $750K = $0.25M raise
A Hill $4M $5M = $1M raise
Johnny Mac $1.5M $1.5M = no raise
So, the guaranteed raises for our players already signed in 2011 completely accounts for the money saved by no longer paying players not to play for us. Thus, if we are to sign Manny, Pena, or any other FA’s and keep the payroll around 2010 numbers, we need to find savings elsewhere.
Still under team control
These guys are not yet arbitration eligible, so the Jays can do as they please with them, essentially. They are paid around the minimum salary each year, which generally comes to between $400-450k, but I like to assume $500k for simplicity of calculation.
Our pre-arbitration guys who should make the team are: Snider, Cecil, and JP2. Others include Rzep…, Drabek, Roenicke, Carlsson, Mills, Mastroianni, Ray and basically anyone else in the minors.
Now is where the fun begins. First, let’s look at potential free agents and the returns in money saved and draft picks they will return.
Free Agents
(losing Type A gets sandwich pick and pick from signing team, Type B just sandwich)
Overbay $7M non-typed FA
Downs $4M Type A FA – assume he will get $5M for 2011 on the FA market
Frasor $2.65M Type A FA
Buck $2M Type B FA
Gregg $2M $4.5M if pick up option – optional raise of $2.5M – type B FA
J Molina $0.8M $1M club option
I figure we will keep Molina as the back up catcher, costing an additional $200k, which can also come out of the money saved from Ruiz’s contract coming off the books. Overbay should be non-tendered, saving $7M. I think we offer arbitration to all the other guys on the list. I doubt any of them will accept, since they can probably get multiyear deals on the open market. If we lose all the remaining guys plus Overbay, we can save $17.65M through attrition. I however, hope we keep Downs, so that will cost ~$5M. If that happens, we have ~$12.5M saved so far (I fudged the figure from $12.65M to $12.5M).
Arbitration eligibles
Now let’s look at the guys from our 2010 roster who are arbitration eligible for the 2011 season. Since guys usually get raises in the arbitration, I will assume everyone will get one should they go to arbitration, though some guys probably will get a very minimal raise, largely insignificant to the overall payroll numbers.
Bautista $2M raise of ~$6M ($8M this season in arb or pre-arb signing)
E5 $4.75M assume raise of ~$1M if resigned
Tallet $2M minimal raise
Escobar minimum raise of $1M
Lewis minimum raise of $0.5M
Morrow minimum raise of $0.5M
Marcum $850k raise of $1.5M
Camp $1.15M raise of $0.5M
Janssen $700k raise of $0.25M
Litsch minimum minimal raise
Wise minimum raise of $0.5M
McGowan minimum minimal raise
S Hill minimum raise of $0.25M
Buckholz $1.05M raise of $0.5M
Accardo $1.08M raise of $0.25M
Some guys are obviously going to be back. First is Bautista, either through the arbitration process or signing a deal to avoid arbitration. So that’s $6M we need to spend. Then we are definitely keeping Escobar, Morrow, and Marcum. By my estimation, that’s $3M more for a total of $9M. I think we also keep Camp, Janssen, S. Hill , either Lewis or Wise, and either Buckholz or Accardo. I estimate that will cost raises of ~$2M total bringing arbitration raises to ~$11M on top of 2010 levels.
Tallet is an obvious non-tender. I also figure we non-tender one of Buckholz or Accardo (I’d probably prefer Buckholz). So we save $3M on them, bringing our total savings to present to ~$4.5M (assuming we keep Downs and with a small fudge factor to keep the numbers round).
So, before we start signing FA’s and figuring out what to do with E5 and other bubble arb-eligible guys, I figure we have the following on the 2011 squad:
Starting position players: Lind, Wells, Hill, Bautista, Escobar, Snider, JP2
Backup position players: J-Mac, Molina, Lewis/Wise (4th OF)
Starting pitchers: Romero, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow, Drabek/S Hill/Rzep
Relievers: Downs, Camp, Roenicke, Janssen, Accardo, S Hill/Rzep
If we non-tender E5, that gives us ~$9M to spend, assuming we don’t go above our 2010 payroll. If we figure Manny or Pena will cost about $8M for 2011, we are left with $1M to play around with and we don’t have a third starting OF (if Bautista plays 3B) or 3B (if Bautista plays RF). We may also need to fill out our bullpen, though that can probably be done internally with relatively cheap guys like Carlsson, Buckholz/Accardo, S Hill, Rzep…, etc. I will leave it to the discussion board how good such a bullpen would actually be.
One proposed solution is to call up Mastroianni, put him in CF for his defense, move Wells to RF (where he would be a plus defender) and put Bautista at 3B. This could easily work, leave money to sign a big bat FA (Manny preferably, or Pena, etc.). Depending on need and Rogers’ willingness to add a bit more payroll, we could also acquire a relatively cheap 5th starter and/or reliever (Jeff Francis?) while staying close to the 2010 payroll. Another suggestion has been to trade for Colby Rasmus, who is not yet arbitration eligible and thus would be playing for ~$0.5M. This would require trading some serious players/prospects, and rejiggering the offseason goals somewhat. However, perhaps we could offer up some of our minor league depth at C (Perez, D’Arnaud, JP2, etc) to make this or another good deal happen.
Anyway, I leave it to the discussion board to hash out what people think the Jays should do. But I thought it would be a good and important resource for people to know the Jays financial obligations for the 2011 season before discussing possible personnel moves.
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Great post, thanks for the research!
However, I disagree with this
keep the payroll around 2010 numbers
There has (as far as I know) never been an indication that the Jays wouldn’t be willing to raise payroll for next year. They’ve shown a willingness to spend $100M in the past, and I’m sure if AA feels as though he has an appropriate trade or freeagent signing that he can convince the upper echelon to spend the money.
For all I know, the payroll does stay the same, but if so, I think that’s moreso due to following a plan (that has the team contending in 2012 or 2013), then it is because of payroll limitations implemented by Rogers.
Wells
Wells earned $21m last year. He received a bonus of $8.5m on March 1.
fair enough
it was just easier to go with straight salary numbers rather than deal with bonuses and such.
Given that the Jays paid an additional $8.5M to Wells last year, if they were willing to spend that amount again this year, that would essentially pay for a Manny-type player right there, leaving the rest of the money that I described above to go after other players or save for future transactions. That makes their financial situation look even better.
thanks, by the way...
it’s a good analysis. :)
Romero
Earned a $1.25m signing bonus in addition to his $400k base salary.
Guys we can't sign Manny
he’s a type A free agent.
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I thought that too
but he won’t be offered arbitration, so he won’t be a type A
Eternal Hope
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
by JohnnyG on Oct 27, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah this is the third different post it's been brought up in.
I thought it was boo in the other ones too?
brought it up once I believe
but then it was brought up about five more times by different people. this onet was a joke.
Prehistoric Hoops - We're back! And we have a real domain!
To be fair
We certainly COULD sign a type A free agent. It’s just highly unlikely that we will. Of course, since Manny won’t be offered arbitration, it is irrelevant for him.
If Rogers decides they want to open up the cashboxes to sign a type-A free agent, that is A-OK with me.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
The key thing is that we can't sign exactly one type A free agent
If we sign two, then the second one only costs a second round pick, which is nothing when you figure we could be getting multiple first round picks from our departing type As that can’t be lost to compensation.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Damn Math… How does it work?
Eternal Hope
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
by JohnnyG on Oct 27, 2010 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rogers is willing to spend the money when the right moment comes along. Payroll will be increased this year due to the fact of all the arbitration that will happen. Rogers media president Keith Pelly has confirmed this with his appearance on Prime Time with Bob McCown. He said “Rogers wants to win a World Series” I do believe that means spending money to get there.
That would be great
but one of the reasons behind my post is to show what could be done even without going cap in hand to management. If they want to throw an extra $10M or so at AA, all the better, but I think the team can be very successful and productive this offseason without taking on a lot more payroll (if that’s the decision that’s made).
We´ve signed Molina... 1 million is fix...
"Without a catcher we´ll have a lot of passed balls!" Casey Stengel
by jaysfanfromeurope on Oct 27, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions
well technically
they probably had to sign the option to effect it. but the same thing really. : )
btw, enjoyed my time in Calgary, but didn’t have enough time to look you up for a drink. apologies.
Ugh… SBNation is really messing up for me at home. I can’t navigate comment threads anymore. Z, Shift A nothing will work. I’ve tried clearing history, reinstalling the browser. It doesn’t seem to help.
Eternal Hope
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Question for All...
We keep talking about throwing 8Mill at Manny, and a bit of money to plug the other holes… But what about going big after Carl Crawford… not sure what he’s going to be making, but assuming it’s something crazy like 20 Mill a season… Wouldn’t spending the extra 10 or 11 be well worth it… It would solve the lead off spot, the speed, defense and would make us a contender.. Thoughts???
Just thinking but…
Crawford CF, Escobar SS, Wells RF, Lind 1B, Bautista 3B, Hill 2B, Snider LF, JPA DH, Molina C
I would love to have Crawford here, but I don’t think he will happen. It has been somewhat known that he wants off turf and the way the Rays tried to rest him off the turf as much as possible seems to support that.
Eternal Hope
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
JPA DH, Molina C = fail
and I don’t think Crawford has played much if any CF in his career—not sure if he has the arm.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
he's played about 400 innings in centre in his career
so some, but probably not enough to draw any conclusions about his fielding ability there
I don't see why he wouldn't be good in Center
he has great speed, maybe not the greatest arm but if he gets to all the balls, who cares about the arm.
Runners at third
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Would you rather Vernon in CF???
Of course we could just leave vernon in CF and put Carl in LF.. Either way, I’d rather have him in CF.. Just a thought tough…
As for the JPA DH and Molina at C.. why a fail… gives JPA a chance to get used to major league pitching, and us a solid defensive catcher.. JPA isn’t the long term solution at C anyways, might as well see what kind of bat he has and maybe he get ’s moved to 1B later anyways…
and why isn't JPA a possible solution at catcher?
the guy is well-regarded defensively and is still improving, and if he can hit for power in the bigs anything like he has in the minors, he’ll be a very solid catcher in the Majors
besides, we should try to address the DH hole through free agency
Not only do I not understand why people have decided that JP2 is not the solution at catcher
for the reasons benk just outlined, but I further don’t get why everyone has decided that Molina is such an amazing defender. When I watched him this season (I probably watched about half the games), I saw a guy who doesn’t move very well anymore and has trouble blocking balls in the dirt to his side. I didn’t see a phenomenal arm and he certainly can’t hit.
I can’t imagine JPA will be significantly worse defensively and his numbers in the minors show he should develop into a much better hitter. But his projected batting line this season does not warrant a regular DH spot.
I this most people see around league average OPS as a good benchmark. He may not put up a great OBA, but Molina’s was .304 this season, so he can’t be much worse, and he’ll post a better SLG. These numbers are fine at catcher, but would be unacceptable from a DH and a FA DH who hits better than this will be easy and cheap to find.
You didn't see a phenomenal arm?
Molina threw out 44% of guys dumb enough to try to steal off him. There were too many wild pitches with him but then he did a terrific job with Brandon Morrow. I wouldn’t want Molina as an everyday catcher either but as a backup I’m ok with it.
Yeah I was reading an article on I believe it was fangraphs of the top defensive catchers
And Molina was top 10 I believe, with the 2nd best arm (Miguel Olivo).
agree
plus Molina is awesome Morrow and will provide much needed leadership for JP and the whole team without complaining for more playiing time
okay, I stand corrected
I still don’t want him as a starter. As a backup and for ~$1M, I’m fine with him. But JP2 should still start
Yeah, and that 44% doesn’t count the number of runners who don’t bother to steal because they are worried they’ll get thrown out. It’s a little like outfield assists. For a little while, base runners will try to take an extra base and a really good arm will rack up the assists. Then the base runners stop trying to take the extra base and the assists go way down. It’s not that the arm has gone bad, but the opportunities have dried up.
Last year was very pleasant from a base stealing perspective. After years of opponents running wild of the bases, this year our catchers pretty much nullified it. Even Buck improved by using the throwing from the knees technique.
JPA at 1B is also a fail
It’s all about the defensive spectrum.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I really don't get it
why does everyone insist on putting JP anywhere but catcher?
by SuckaMD on Oct 29, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because 6 years of a mediocre player
is apparently better than 6 years of a very good one and then his knees explode a few years into his big Yankees/Red Sox contract.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I don't get it
are you assuming Arencibia is going to be a mediocre Major Leaguer? I think there’s a perfectly legitimate possibility he could be a top-10 maybe even top-5 catcher in the bigs.
I think his point
is that a good hitting catcher often makes a mediocre-hitting 1st baseman/dh so it’s more valuable to keep Arencibia at catcher
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Great financial thumbnail! Very thorough synopsis.
However, most of the comments on here fly in the face of reality. The new manager, John Farrell, stated his objectives very clearly: At end the 2011 season, fifth in the AL East in both ERA (10th at 4.22 in 2010, Yankees were 5th at 4.06) and runs scored (6th in 2010, 105 runs behind Yankees).
Jays pitching in 2011 should improve dramatically at 5th starter. Rzepchynski had 2.31 ERA his last four starts after coming back from a broken finger injury. I believe Hill’s ERA was 2.61 in Sept.; his location and stuff were good but he needs to work up arm strength. Drabek will push the top five hard.
The article’s suggested 2011 bullpen stinks, pure and simple. Only closer is Accardo, who: (1) had a MLB ERA over 8.00 in 2010 ( 2) enjoys a pathological hatred of the Blue Jays’ organization.
In American English, Kevin Gregg closes real good and real adventurous and chews gum better. Let’s kiss him goodbye to save some dough, even though his save rate was 86% in 2010. Rest of pen were 8-18 or 44% successful.
One other thing. Who’s Manny? Is he the ageing guy who can still hit a little, but reminds people of Milton Bradley?
no he's the guy...
who would project to be one of our two best hitters – even at 39
He's a guy who put up an OBA>.400 and 2WAR at the plate in half a season (322 PA)
Which is well worth $8M in salary for an entire season. Give him 650PA at DH and, even with mild regression of his stats, and he’ll put up 3-3.5WAR easy.
i don't understand your bullpen assessment at all
(or your Manny assessment but that’s been covered already). first you say that we should get rid of Kevin Gregg (which enough other people think too) because he maybe wasn’t as good as his numbers suggest. but only using W-L and S numbers, you point out that the rest of the bullpen was far worse. you also describe how Accardo “stinks” despite pitching 6.2 Majors innings in 2010 and putting up ERAs of 3.00 and 3.48 the past two years in an extremely hitter-friendly AAA environment. you also state he “hates” the Blue Jays – maybe it’s because we have really only given him one real shot after his absolutely excellent 2007 (64 games, 30 saves, 2.14 ERA, 2.5 WAR).
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Downs could easily be the closer
and we would plug Purcey (who I stupidly left off the list of team controlled guys) into his former LOOGY/Lefty set up role. Camp, Accardo or Roenicke would become the righty setup man and could be given opportunities to close as needed/wanted. I think a back end of the bullpen of Downs, Accardo/Roenicke/Camp, and Purcey would be solid. Filling out the back end are Camp, Roenicke, Rzep, and Janssen who are all capable pitchers.
Not the most amazing bullpen on paper, but I think more than capable and with good potential for improvement. Perhaps there are other relatively cheap guys available on the FA market, but I think we can put together a solid bullpen internally if we need to save money. Plus, relievers are notoriously difficult to project, so spending money on a big name FA reliever (aside from a few top notch studs) isn’t usually a good risk.
The article’s suggested 2011 bullpen stinks, pure and simple.
Actually, that doesn’t strike me as that bad a bullpen. I disagree with the OP on the contents a bit because I think the Jays will bring back Gregg over Accardo.
Gregg is an average closer. He has definite weaknesses that prevent him from being an elite closer and I don’t think that he can overcome them. On the other hand, when used properly, he can be effective. To my mind, you don’t get rid of him until you know you can replace him with a better closer. I don’t think the Jays have identified that better closer yet.
Downs, Camp, Roenicke, Janssen, Accardo, S Hill/Rzep
Downs has been incredibly reliable over the years. For a reliever, that’s unusual. He may have the occasional hiccup, but when the season ends, he just ends up with the same numbers year after year. You do have to wonder when he will decline though as he is getting up there in years.
Camp also had a good year last year and he’s actually improved the last 3 years he’s pitched for the Jays. He is also the same age as Downs so age is a concern. But overall, he’s been pretty effective as a reliever.
Roenicke has the stuff to be a closer but the control eludes him. I think he can fill the spot reliever role but I wouldn’t trust him with the game on the line unless I had to. You can do worse than him and you can do better.
Jannsen had a bounce back year and was effective for the most part. I think he can repeat.
Frasor was missing off the list but he could also be a reliever. It’s entirely possible no team signs him because it will cost draft picks so he could be back. He was also effective last year.
Hill or Scrabble can both be effective as relievers. In particular, I think I’d rather see Hill there because I think Scrabble has more types of pitches.
i'm sorry but i really do not get the hatred for Accardo
the guy has put up ERA+es of 210 and 175 while in Toronto. 2008 wasn’t great by any strech, but judging his 2010 as giving any information as to his career potential is laughable. especially considering he has posted two straight seasons in AAA (in an insane hitter’s environment) with ERAs under 3.50. not seeing the reason to hate him at all.

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