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I Keep Making These To-Do Lists But Nothing Gets Crossed Out: Sign a Starter Edition?

Hi everyone.  This is the second in a series of posts about choices the Jays will be making going into the 2011 offseason.  Last time we covered what to do about the catcher position and whether the Jays should attempt to resign John Buck, which generated a great discussion.  This time we'll look at whether the Jays should consider reinforcements at the starting pitcher position. 

The Jays' starting pitching fared pretty well last season, certainly better than had been expected by most after losing ace Roy Halladay.  Their starters only ranked 9th in the AL in ERA (4.30), but they ranked 4th in FIP, 2nd in xFIP, 3rd in tERA, and 6th in K/BB, suggesting that they suffered from some bad luck (or bad relief pitching that allowed in a  lot of inherited runs).  And they finished 4th in the AL in terms of WAR from their starters, providing $59 million in value, very imperssive considering that they were each paid well less than $1 m (at least, until Ricky Romero signed his long-term deal).  So, it's not necessarily that there was a problem with 2010's starters. 

However, it is fair to say that 4 pitchers: Shaun Marcum, Ricky Romero, Brett Cecil, and Brandon Morrow, were responsible for a great majority of that value.  Romero (4 WAR)  finished the season with solid peripherals, excellent groundball numbers, and an ERA (3.73) right in line with more advanced stats like tRA (3.88) and xFIP (3.75).  He really came into his own as a big-league starter with a very strong sophomore season, and earned himself a long-term contract besides. 

Marcum (3.5 WAR) had even better strikeout and walk numbers (3.84 K/BB) but of course is no one's idea of a groundballer.  Still, he finished with very similar ERA (3.64) and advanced (3.77 tRA, 3.90 xFIP) numbers as well.  He's always been a favourite of mine, but even I could not have predicted such a resoundingly sucessful return from ligament replacement surgery.  He was as baffling to hitters as ever with his excellent changeup and his ability to throw any pitch for a strike in any count, and had his usual pinpoint control.

Star-divide

Brandon Morrow (3.7 WAR) had unbelievable strikeout numbers (almost 11 per 9 innings) but also walked more than any other Jays' starter (over 4 per 9) and plainly suffered from some miserable luck (4.49 ERA) -  though xFIP (3.63) doesn't suggest he was as luck as do tRA and FIP (3.17 and 3.16, respectively).  Still, no question his transition to being a full-time starter was a resounding success. 

Brett Cecil (2.5 WAR) got a bit of a delayed start due to a spring training finger injury sustained while cooking (as an enthusiastic amateur chef myself, I can certainly sympathize) but was not much less effective than the other three, putting up stingy walk numbers (2.81 per 9) that offset low K (6.10 K/9) totals and, if anything, getting a little unlucky (4.22 ERA as compared to a 4.03 FIP and a 4.06 tRA, though his xFIP was 4.32, so it looks like his bad luck was of the runners left on, not the long ball, variety).  Cecil established himself as a legitimate big league starter and the only question remaining is whether he will continue to improve or take a step back to average next season.  I think he can improve on his strikeout and groundball numbers while continuing to limit walks and get even better. 

After those four, though, there was a bit of a vacuum.  No one else posted more than 1/2 a win above replacement, largely because no one else made more than 12 starts (Marc Rzepczynski).  Zep started a bit shakily but finished fairly strongly, with a 3.90 ERA over 32 innings in September.  He walked too many in general though, and needs to cut down - while he has always posted solid K numbers and also has good groundball stuff, his K numbers aren't  of the Morrow type that he can afford to walk more than 4 batters per 9 innings and expect success, and walks plus groundballs that find holes = rallies. 

Other possible candidates:  Shawn Hill made a handfull of starts down the stretch and was okay - not bad and a great backup option, but not necessarily a guy you pencil into a rotation when you're trying to compete in the AL East.  Jesse Litsch struggled in his return from tommy john surgery and sustained a hip injury that really limited his time - he's a big question mark for 2011.  Scott Richmond is a solid fallback option but not exactly someone you're excited to have in your major league starting rotation, and the less said about Brian Tallet's starts the better.  Brad Mills was decent in AAA but hasn't challenged hitters at the major league level and for a pitcher of his type that's a tough sell. 

On the minor league front, Zach Stewart and Kyle Drabek enjoyed great seasons in AA, but only Drabek is a legit major-league option going into Spring of 2011.  Stewart will likely be ready for the majors at some point next season but is a converted closer and so is still building up his stamina and is at least a year away from being able to shoulder a full season workload starting at the major league level, if indeed his future is in starting.  Drabek, on the other hand, made three starts at the major league level in 2010 and didn't look overmatched at all (3.75 tRA, 4.08 FIP), though he didn't dominate either.  He got tons of grounders and was not afraid to challenge hitters.  Cito Gaston remarked after one of his starts that the Jays should have had him pitching at the major-league level all season, instead of the carousel of 5th starters they used.  It would appear that Drabek is ready to be a major league pitcher, and there's no time like the present. 

So, with all that said, isn't the Jays roation set?  Although it's been bandied about, is there any need for them to delve into the free agent or trade market for additional starting pitching? 

Well, the Jays were mostly unscathed by it this season, but injuries happen. With the Jays relatively thin at the high minors in terms of starting pitcher talent (assuming Stewart won't be ready, it's mostly Mills and the folks we've already mentioned along with a few other guys like Robert Ray), it might be worth securing a starter and having Drabek begin the season as the 6th starter.  Historically, the 6th starter makes as many starts over a season as the 5th starter so it's not really a demotion so much as a backup plan.  And of course pitching is always a valuable commodity so if the Jays can find a free agent bargain, they can always trade someone like Marcum for a very solid return.  Marcum, in particular, has been rumoured to be a potential trade piece for a while now, and with the Jays' organization strength on the mound, none of their young starters should be untouchable.

In terms of who would be on the market, there's of course Cliff Lee at the top, but he's not coming to Toronto.  After him, you have middling guys like Carl Pavano, Aaron Harang, Jorge De La Rosa, Kevin Millwood, Jon GarlandJake Westbrook, and Javier Vasquez - no thanks. 

In between those two groups you have Hiroki Kuroda, who doesn't have Lee's star power but has a solid record of major league success.  All Kuroda has done over his 3 major league seasons is pitch to a 3.52 tRA and 3.73 xFIP.  Kuroda has solid stuff (3.18 K/BB ratio over his mlb career) and induces a lot of groundballs (51%) which is very helpful in the AL East.  He'd likely be a solid addition but the question would be the price tag - Kuroda made over $15 million in 2010 and he had an excellent season.  I don't see the Jays ponying up that kind of money. 

Then a couple of injury reclamation-type projects like Erik Bedard (who missed all of 2010), Jeremy Bonderman (a full, but awful season in 2010 after missing virtually all of 2009), Jeff Francis (who made 19 not particularly successful starts after missing all of 2009), Brandon Webb (missed all of 2010, questionable for 2011), and Ben Sheets (who made 20 starts after missing all of 2009 but wasn't himself). For them it all depends on what kind of deal they'd come in on. 

Another option would be to sign a swingman type like southpaw Hisanori Takahashi, who made made 12 starts and 41 bullpen appearances last season for the Mets and was perfectly acceptable (3.61 ERA, 3.65 FIP, 3.45 tRA).  He could start the season in the bullpen if Drabek has a strong spring and the rest of the Jays' starters escape March unscathed, and switch to the rotation as necessary, or otherwise start the season in the rotation with Drabek waiting in the wings.  That'd be a relatively risk-free endeavor that would strenghten the bullpen while providing some depth in the rotation.  On the other hand, I don't think he'd necessarily be better as a starter than, say, a Brad Mills or a Marc Rzepczynski. 

What do you all think?  Stand pat rotation wise in 2011, sign a veteran starter to anchor a rotation that lucked out (injury-wise if not performance-wise) in 2010, or go the in-between route and sign an injury reclaimation or swingman? 

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Takahashi

looks the most appealing of the guys you mentioned here. I’m not a big believer that we need to get those upper tier guys either, so Kuroda or Takahashi look most appealing. I think Kuroda is always a possibility for injuries and has earned a fair bit of money the Jays may not fork out, but he definitely would be a good addition to the rotation.

Webb and Bedard are interesting as reclamation projects, but not really the type you want to actually rely on making a contribution this year. Other than that, I think the rotation just indicates AA wasn’t lying when he said he’d explore the trade market more than the free agency market. Either way, I trust his judgment.

by brewerm on Nov 10, 2010 1:14 PM EST reply actions  

I hope anthopoulos finds a way to get chamberlain from the yanks. Could be another Morrow situation

To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!

by YunelTheLazyLatino on Nov 10, 2010 1:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

interesting

as much as I find him obnoxious, he was very unlucky last year and strikes out a lot of guys. I’m worried the Yanks will have a very high price point on him though, if they still like him

by benk on Nov 10, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see picking up Takahashi to fill the Talent spot on the pitching staff

beyond that, I don’t want Pavano or any of the other middling guys.

I think Scrabble and/or Drabek are the best choices for fifth starters. Mills, Hill, Litsch, Richmond or Ray could work as ‘in case of emergency break glass’ guys. Francis or Bedard might be ok to pick up if they would go to Triple-A, we will need pitchers to fill innings down there.

by Tom Dakers on Nov 10, 2010 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

I actually like Takahashi in the pen.

Out of the pen, he had a 2.04 ERA , hitters hit .206 and had .280 OBP, .582 OPS with 2 HRA against him. 57.1IP, 43H, 22BB, 60SO

As a starter, he had an 5.01 ERA, hitters hit .291, .343 OBP, .843 OPS with 11 HR against him.
64.2IP, 73H, 21BB, 54SO

I’d be interested in Bedard or Webb as reclammation projects, but I feel pretty good at our depth at 5th starter between Drabek, Rzep, Hill, and Stewart…

by peterzm on Nov 10, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Stewart really a converted closer?

The year we traded for him he was a starter who was moved to the bullpen mid-season to limit his innings growth. (Gotta make sure they’re totally healthy before Dusty destroys them, I guess.)

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Nov 10, 2010 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

pretty sure he closed in college

in 2008 he didn’t start any games (finishing 24) and 2009 he only started 14 out of 34 appearances (putting up ridiculous numbers in the process, it should be noted) so not sure what happened there with the trade sometime in there

by benk on Nov 10, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

closer in college

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Nov 10, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

But he's a few years removed from that now

It’s not like we converted him from being a closer.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Nov 10, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

he was drafted in 2008

and continued to close for the rest of 2008. In 2009 he made 14 starts and then went to the bullpen because of innings limitations. I’d say he began his conversion to being a starter in 2009 and continued (and completed) it in 2010, the first season where he exclusively started.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Nov 10, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm lazy

Could someone compare Stewart at this point in his career to where Cecil was. What with Cecil being a college closer it should give some insight into Stewart.

by brett w on Nov 10, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Cecil was starting right away after being drafted

He made the 14 starts (13 actually) the year he was drafted that Stewart had to make the year after he was drafted, as Stewart continued to close for the rest of 2008 after being drafted.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Nov 10, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I would keep the Pitching staff intact… we have a solid group of young guys. We can expect injuries and surprises along the way but we have 5 decent choices for the 5th spot. With Drabek we have a pretty nice 1-5 that comes dirt cheap.

Then again if we trade one of our starters, it might not be a bad idea to add an arm for extra depth. Overall we are pretty deep in Starters.

by melochejonathan on Nov 10, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

I say Drabek as the 5th starter and have Rzepczynski as the swingman

He did have two relief appearances this season and a couple in the minors. Not saying that in anyway makes him a “reliever” but why go out and sign a swingman like Takahashi when we could have a good one under our noses. I could see him being what Scott Downs was a few years back when he would mostly come out of the pen but got the odd spot start.

by T_Mizz on Nov 10, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

Jeff Francis

I like him as a reclamation project alot. Great FIP and xFIP last year, which suggests he was unlucky. Improved walk rate too. Would probably be willing to consider an incentive-based deal, and would mean we can go easy on guys like Drabek et. al.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Nov 10, 2010 1:46 PM EST reply actions  

he did have some bad luck

on the other hand, I’m not enamoured with the 5.78 k/9 in the NL, that’s pretty rough. If his walk rate returned to his career average, it could be ugly, even with his groundball stuff. I wouldn’t mind him, but it’d depend on the price tag. He also had shoulder problems in August – he returned in September, but was only pitching 3 innings at a time and was getting hit very hard (4 HR and 21 hits in less than 12 innings)

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Nov 10, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Although I’m not advocating going out and trading Marcum and plugging Francis into the top 5. I hope we keep the core 4, but having a veteran reclamation project around doesn’t hurt. I like the fact he’s Canadian too.

I realize he’s a big injury risk, but if he’s willing to come cheap and fight for a job (I can’t really see anyone lining up to hand him a major league job although I could be wrong on that one), I wouldn’t mind having him around.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Nov 10, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I totally agree

I’m not at all opposed to bringing him in – but I wouldn’t see it as bringing him in means that Marcum (or anyone, for that matter) would have to get traded. If the right deal comes along, so be it, but I’d see Francis as battling for a rotation spot, and if he can show he’s healthy and effective, great.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Nov 10, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't mind giving a guy like Francis a shot at the 5th spot

If he plays well in spring training, you can give him a few starts and see what’s still left in the tank. You can send Drabek to AAA for that time and defer his service time, which is always a plus. If Francis doesn’t work out after a month or two or gets hurt, call up Drabek and you are golden.

by SuckaMD on Nov 10, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends if Marcum gets traded or not.

If he goes then you can try for a Jeff Francis to fill in. If he stays then I dont think we would need to add another arm.

Avi: Should I call you Bullet? Tooth?

Bullet Tooth Tony: You can call me Susan if it makes you happy.

by syc on Nov 10, 2010 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

I'd pass on FA pitching for the most part

Ben Sheets won’t be back till late 2011.
Brandon Webb topped out at 83 the last time he pitched
Bedard is a possibility but frequently injured that he’s not worth it.
Jeff Francis is probably the only one I’d seriously consider if I were AA.

I think the Jays should stand pat. They’ve got the young ready arms and who knows maybe even Dustin comes back.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Nov 10, 2010 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

the bullpen is where the help might be needed. Got lots of candidates for the fifth spot.

by Alan F. on Nov 11, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Another thought: Rich Harden

Except not as a starter. Any chance he could stay healthier as a reliever? It would seem we have the coaching staff that is designed to support pitching…

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Nov 10, 2010 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

interesting thought

seems like his stuff would play well as a reliever, and it could help him stay off the DL. that said, I bet some other team is willing to pay him more as a “reclamation project” of their own (and he won’t stay healthy). if cheap, could be a very interesting option

by benk on Nov 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe.

Thought about him as a reliever, possibly groom as a closer. He’s got the stuff and it would limit his innings, maybe keeping him off the DL.

by Alan F. on Nov 11, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I think if the Jays go after FA pitching, it should be focused on potential reclaimations for the rotation. Go out and see if you can catch lightning with someone who’s trying to claw back following an injury or a bad season. I don’t see anyone who comes with a low enough price tag to be looked at as anything but a 5th starter at this point in any case, so I’m happy to let a couple of retreads battle through the spring against Litsch, Richmond, Zep, Mills, Drabek, and whomever for a shot.

by dexfarkin on Nov 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

Bedard for me

The Jays could repeat the “steal a pitcher from the Mariners and make him a potential star” thing they did last year.

by bleh on Nov 10, 2010 5:28 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I say we convert Wood back to a starter

by Joey P on Nov 10, 2010 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

His arm can’t take it. The Cubs messed him and Mark Prior’s arms up earlier in their careers by overpitching them.

by bleh on Nov 10, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Jorge De La Rosa

DLR is someone I would love to see in a Jays uni come next season.

He is a guy that has high strikeout numbers, as well has a strong ground ball percentage. Even though he will be 30 next year, his polish is only starting to show. I feel he would be able to improve off of his past few seasons. I can see a 3 year 18-24 million dollar deal for him, which I wouldn’t oppose at all.

Obviously I would love to see Harden, Bedard, or Francis sign with the team. However, their clout is nowhere near the level it was three seasons ago, and the questions around them are legitimate, and they can’t be counted on…

by T.Haynes on Nov 11, 2010 1:45 AM EST reply actions  

problem is...

he’s the second best FA SP this season. He’s due for a sizeable pay day this offseason, and the Jays have more pressing issues at present than trying to sign a big name FA SP.

by SuckaMD on Nov 11, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

for my money

Kuroda is a much better pitcher than De La Rosa. De La Rosa’s tRA numbers are downright ugly.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Nov 11, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

From a fan perspective, I back Bedard.

He’s a native son, a fantastic pitcher (when healthy) and has a low opportunity cost given that he hasn’t thrown in the major leagues in 1.5 years.

From a Seattle perspective, I jealously tell AA to stay away from our talent pool and go get Ben Sheets who can still bounce back. Also, it would weaken the A’s.

The truth is most teams don’t have “fifth starters.” They have a collection of guys who share back end of the rotation duties. The Phillies, for example, had nine starters last year. The Angels had ten. The Mariners had two. The Jays had eleven. Eleven!

I think it’s fair to assume some regression from the Fab Four. Those were just unbelievably good seasons from all four of them—although, honestly, I might be bullish on Morrow as post-May he was unhittable and his walk rate absolutely plummeted. June, July and August he had a BB/9 under 3.5 after posting rates over 5 (FIVE!) in April and May. The Jays shouldn’t be looking for another starter. Filler in the back end is normal. What they are theoretically looking for is consistency if and only if they don’t expect it from the Fab Four.

by harkening on Nov 11, 2010 4:37 AM EST reply actions  

I am also okay with our guys. Zep has been on a tear since late in the season and has been destroying the AFL, which is supposed to be a hitter’s league. Drabek is good for a call-up or sixth starter. Then the rest of the gang should be serviceable pitchers in case of injuries. But then we might need some starters for Vegas. Maybe we can get Francis for a Vegas role.

by Joey P on Nov 11, 2010 7:25 AM EST up reply actions  

You’re Bullish on Morrow?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Completely unbiased :)

by JohnnyG on Nov 11, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't see the point, unless you take someone that is currently in the rotation out (which is possible)

A reclamation project on a minor league contract would be nice. Just someone to push Drabek a litte. That being said, we already kinda have that in Zep, Litsch, Hill, Mills and Stewart.

by REMO on Nov 11, 2010 8:54 AM EST reply actions  

Tradeing Marcum would be a huge mistake!!!!!

S. Marcum is the glue and the ace of this pitching staff no matter what anyone says. He is the vetern presence and shows these young guys what it takes day in day out to be a major league pitcher as he learned from the best there is Doc Halladay.

by YoungGunr on Nov 11, 2010 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

Cecil and Romero also pitched under Doc

by JohnnyG on Nov 11, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

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