Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Roundtable: Which Draft Pick Is Most Likely To Bust?

A look at the Halladay Trade, One Year Later

It might be a slow news day today (edit: nevermind, I publish this and see they resigned EE), but one year ago, there was a lot to talk about.  It's hard to believe, but it has been one year since the Jays officially parted ways with Roy Halladay.  I think most of us were probably relieved for it to be over.  It was difficult time, knowing that one of the top Blue Jaysof all time was on his way out, and I think we were all tired of the endless speculation and swirling rumours.  I kind of like reading through the old threads (especially the comments) so I've linked a bunch of the relevant ones here.  There's lots of them to read through if you want. 

For a little trip down memory lane, the rumours really started to pick up on December 14.  The first rumour, detailed here, had the Jays, Phillies and Marinersas part of a three way deal.  It was suspected that Phillipe Aumont and Dominic Brown were coming to Toronto in return for Halladay.

A few hours later, it was suggested that J.A. Happ, Domonic Brownand Joe Blantonwere part of the deal, and that Aumont was not.  Also, Travis D'Arnaud and Micheal Taylor 'might be' involved, however Kyle Drabek'likely isn't part of the deal.'

And by 2AM on December 15, Tom had it hammered out here.  Halladay and $6M for Micheal Taylor, Travis D'Arnaud and Kyle Drabek.  By the end of the day on December 15, we knew that Micheal Taylor was being flipped for Brett Wallace, and I don't think many of us liked the deal.

Of course, as we all know, Brett Wallace was traded to Houston on July 29, with toolsy centrefielder, Anthony Gose coming to the Jays in return.  That thread is here.

Star-divide

Obviousy, it's too early to even begin evaluating who won this set of trades, but lets take a quick look at everybody's numbers, shall we? 

We all know the year Halladay had for the Phillies, leading them to a National League Championship Series.  Coming off of one of his top 3 seasons with the Jays, Halladay continued putting up stellar numbers for the Phillies.  He threw the 2nd highest IP of his career, third year with 20+ wins, and matched or beat his career high's in K's and BB's.  He accumulated 6.6 fWAR, good for the 5th highest total of his career.

Highlights of the season for Halladay?  He threw the 20th perfect game in MLB history on May 29, 2010 and in his first post-season start, he no-hit the Reds.  Highlights from the games are here and here.  Not often I jump off the couch cheering for a team that isn't the Jays, but I did that day.  Bittersweet though, wasn't it?  Becoming the 5th pitcher to win Cy Young awards in both leagues was probably a highlight too, joining Gaylord Perry, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez there.

Travis D'Arnaud had a bit of a rough year playing at High A Dunedin as he was fighting with injuries for most of the second half.  He had a very good first half though, and was selected to play in the Florida State League All-Star Game.  He finished the year with a .259/.315/.411 in 71 games.  Not a bad year for a 21 year old catcher in a pitchers league.  I expect he'll move up to AA next year, and hopefully he can stay healthy and show us what he can do in a full season.

Kyle Drabek pitched most of the year for AA New Hampshire and had a fantastic year, cementing his position as the Jays number 1 prospect and making a formidable 1-2 punch with Zack Stewart.  He lead New Hamshire to the playoffs, where he pitched a decent game, in his only game, but still took the loss.  A few days later he was called up to the bigs, where he got his first taste of MLB hitters with 3 starts.   To me, it looked like he had pretty good stuff. 

Highlights of the year for Drabek?  He was named to the Eastern League All-Star team and won the Eastern League Pitcher of the Year (Brad Arnsberg won the same award in 1985).  Shaky video of the no hitter finish here.

Michael Taylor played the majority of the season at AAA for the Sacremento Rivercats (a PCL team, so take the numbers with a grain of salt).  He had a decent, but not great year.  He had about the worst numbers of his minor league career, so maybe flipping him was a good move?  He's still a top 10 prospect for the A's, but I'm sure they'd like to see improved production from him going forward.  He turns 25 in a couple of days, so it will be interesting to see if he makes the A's out of spring training next year.  After a quick look, I don't think he was a top 10 player in any of the stats, and his OPS was way down the list (and behind Las Vegas players, Jarret Hoffpauir, Chris Lubanski and JP Arencibia).

Brett Wallace was dubbed the 1st baseman of the future during the spring, and as such, most Jays fans seemed pretty outraged when he was flipped midway through the season.  He spent the first half of the season at AAA Las Vegas, and while his numbers did look a lot better than Taylor's, he wasn't blowing the league away with his production.  He finished the year playing for the Houston Astro's and got off to a pretty rough start.  It sounds like he'll be a decent player, but not a real top of the league kind of guy.

Anthony Gose finishes off this list.  He was another Philadelphia prospect that was traded to the Astro's as part of the Roy Oswalt package, and then flipped to the Jays for Brett Wallace.  It's hard to get a real reading on players still in the low minors, but he had a good season splitting time for Dunedin and Clearwater in A+.  The numbers don't jump out, but he is younger for the level, at only 20. 

Here's a summary of everyone's 2010 stats.

Roy Halladay:

MLB Philadelphia:  250.2 IP, 219K (7.86/9), 30BB (1.08/9), 24HR, 2.44 ERA, 3.01FIP, 33GS, 21W-10L

Kyle Drabek:

AA NH:  162IP, 132K (7.33/9), 68BB (3.78/9), 12 HR, 2.94 ERA, 27GS, 14W-9L.

MLB:  17IP, 12K (6.35/0), 5BB (2.65/9), 2HR, 4.76 ERA, 4.08 FIP, 3GS, 0W-3L.

Travis D'Arnaud:

A+ Dunedin:  292PA, .259/.315/.411.  68H, 6HR, 38RBI, 3SB

Michael Taylor:

A Desert Dogs:  128 PA, .278/.391/.407.  30H, 2HR, 15RBI, 6SB

AAA Sacremento:  524 PA, .272/.348/.392.  226H, 6HR, 78RBI, 16SB

Brett Wallace:

AAA Las Vegas:  423 PA, .301/.359/.509.  116H, 18HR, 61RBI, 1SB

MLB Houston:  159 PA, .222/.296/.319.  32H, 2HR, 13RBI, 0SB.

Anthony Gose:

A+ Dunedin/Clearwater:  574PA, .262/.332/.393.  134H, 7HR, 27RBI, 45SB.

So, Banterer's, 1 year later, how do you feel about the Halladay trade, and the sucession of moves that followed?  Do you think we got enough value for Halladay?  Can the three players that we have today, eventually make up 7.0+ fWAR a season?  I think the key will be Anthony Gose.  I think Drabek is most likely going to end up a 3-4WAR pitcher in general, maybe with a few years about 4WAR.  D'Arnaud shoud make the Jays in a few years and is hopefully a 2WAR player.  Gose might never sniff the big leagues, but if he does make it, I think he makes the deal a win for the Jays (if that's possible when trading away the heart of your franchise).

Comment 13 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I think AA has been brilliant in going from Taylor → Wallace → Gose because I don’t see the other two being anything more than fringe/replacement players in the majors. Gose might not make it, but if he does, he’s going to provide high value. If he doesn’t, then Drabek and D’Arnaud should be able to combine to provide similar value to Doc.

by siggian on Dec 16, 2010 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

dunno about the last sentence

just noting how much more valuable a single high-WAR player (like 5+) is than a couple of good players (3+). they’ll probably both be solid Major Leaguers but Roy was pretty flippin’ fantastic

by benk on Dec 16, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

just noting how much more valuable a single high-WAR player (like 5+) is than a couple of good players (3+)

It depends on how good the 2nd player that plays with the ‘single high-WAR player’. Tom Tango was blogging about this a couple of days ago but I didn’t really have a chance to read it. Something about having 2 superstars and a bunch of nobodies, or a bunch of average starters. The two groups add up to the same amount of WAR, but which one is better?

by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

well

it seems to me, entirely subjectively and without any real empirical data at all, that the 2 superstars is better simply because you can look to improve that much more easily. it’s far easier (and cheaper, especially trades-wise) to find a few 2.5 WAR guys as stopgaps than getting a couple elite players, so if you already have them as your core isn’t that better? I don’t know how he was approaching it (GM perspective, raw W-L perspective etc) but that’s what it seems like to me…

by benk on Dec 16, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see how anyone could not be happy about the initial trade. Backs to the wall, the Jays could have ended up taking pennies on the dollar for Halladay. Instead, they walked away with three top prospects. One of whom could make the rotation out of the spring and projects as a top three starter. Another who was injured but still showed considerable talent. Finally, one who became a risky but possibly top player prospect in a premium position.

by dexfarkin on Dec 16, 2010 1:04 PM EST reply actions  

Seconded

People tend to compare stats, but it should be noted that the alternative to that trade was not “keeping Doc”. It was “losing Doc to free agency”. Sure we would have got the compensation picks. You should compare those potential picks to Drabek, D’Arnaud and Gose. Somehow, I suspect that the picks wouldn’t have come close to what we got.

Festina Lente

by HESS2479 on Dec 17, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Great point - well made

‘losing Doc to free agency’ – keeps being overlooked for some reason – Drabek and D’Arnaud alone made this worthwhile, especially since so many teams are weak up the middle – and D’Arnaud puts us in a position of strength should some trade opportunities surface.
Way, way better than the return that Philly got for Lee (with Seattle).

by Paul Chicago on Dec 17, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Left out that part how he was the unanimous decision for the Cy Young. I expected some stupid writer to vote someone else (theres always one) but not this time!

Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...

by JohnnyG on Dec 16, 2010 1:12 PM EST reply actions  

It was pretty shocking stuff.

There’s always that one guy who decides to vote against the grain, just because. Even Ichiro’s roty award wasn’t unanimous because of ‘that one guy’.

by Spitballer on Dec 16, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

The highligh has to be selfless

As much as I think the Jays are heading in the right direction, Hallady always seemed to get horrid run support with us (and we can’t blame it all on Mac) and likely Philly will win more games over the course of Halladay’s career than the Jays will. That makes me feel good, he’s one of the classiest guys in the game, and he deserves any help he can get in making it to the hall – I’d rather him be there as a Philly than not there at all.

Personally, Drabek and Gose could be MVPs and I don’t think it’d make up for losing Halladay.

Feelings aside though, AA did a great job. Cutting bait on two guys before they lost value while staying focused on areas of need was all sorts of amazing if that’s what he ment to do.

Still, having a couple years with players like Halladay, Mac, Millar, Stairs, Scutaro, Bautista, and Downs as well as kids that seem to have their head on straight and aren’t making headlines for the wrong reasons made us look like a really classy organization. Hopefully we can bring some of those guys back at the ends of their careers to fill our bench.

by Sivvi on Dec 16, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions  

Oh sure....I push back my post because of the Edwin signing....

and you beat me to it….well, since I wrote it, I’m still posting it.

by Tom Dakers on Dec 16, 2010 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

We also received

approximately $15M-20M/year in saved salary. It seems like that money is going to draft picks and international free agents rather than to Rogers. If so, that has a lot of value also.

by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

It seems to me as a perfect example for a Win-Win Trade. The best kind there is, and the kind that AA seems to specialize in.

It seems to be somewhat overlooked at times, but much of the respect that I think AA deserve, is due to his attitude toward trades and contracts – while always having the best interest of the team as the top priority, it looks as if the deals are always extremely fair from the players’ point of view. I have the utmost respect for people who think of their employees as human beings, and not only as trading commodity.

For me it’s much easier to root for a team with that kind of management, than for a team with a more ruthless style, however successful. Let alone that it looks as if AA’s style just benefits the club, and not the other way round.

Festina Lente

by HESS2479 on Dec 17, 2010 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about our heroic azure-tinged corvidae, the Toronto Blue Jays.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Brett Lawrie's historic defensive prowess

Recent FanPosts

Small
Jays Future Closer?
N41306733_31278203_7401_steve_golfin_small
my MLB power ranking, May Edition
Jaysfanimage_small
Blue Jays Farm Report - Apr 29-May 5
Jaysfanimage_small
BBBers on Twitter
Grain-of-salt_small
An Open Letter to John Farrell (and the Blue Jays front office)
Small
WAR worries?
Small
NHL Mentality?
Profiel_small
Bluebirdbanter League at Fangraphs the Game
Small
Frustration...

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Bluejayperched_small hugo

Rincewind-1_small Tom Dakers

Assistant Manager

Smith_up_small JohnnyG

Authors

Hiro_small jessef

Profile_small masterkembo

Profiel_small Woodman663

Minorleaguer_small Minor Leaguer

Tony_fernandez_small TonyFernandezSavedMyLife

Moderators

J_bau_small jays182

Aejfuulciaar18g_small Bowling_Guy25