Blue Jays Sign Edwin Encarnacion
by Tom Dakers on Dec 16, 2010 11:00 AM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays News
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PrintI didn't see this coming:
BLUE JAYS SIGN EDWIN ENCARNACION
The TORONTO BLUE JAYS have signed IF EDWIN ENCARNACION to a US $2.5 million contract for the 2011 season and a club option of US $3.5 million for the 2012 season.
ENCARNACION, 27, has spent the last two seasons with the Blue Jays after coming over in a trade with the Cincinnati Reds on July 31, 2009. Over that time with Toronto, the 6'2" 231 lb. native of La Romana, Dominican Republic has hit .243 with 29 home runs and 74 RBI in 138 games as a Blue Jay. In 96 games last season, batted .244 with 21 home runs and 51 RBI and was named American League Player of the Week from Sept. 27-Oct. 3 (.400, 5 HR, 11 RBI). In 652 career games, the right-handed hitter has posted a .258 average with 100 home runs and 337 RBI.
Tom Back: The Jays also want it to be noted that he will be listed as a 1B/DH on the roster. I don't understand why they would get worked up about what position to list him at now. Spring training is still a little ways away. They saved a few million off what he could have made in arbitration. Party at Craig's house.
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I'm okay with this.
More than okay actually. This is better than what I was expecting at this point in the offseason. They ended up getting him at a great price too.
So... No Manny!
If he´s the partner for Lind at 1st base and DH…. i don´t see us sign Manny. But i like the idea of taking a shot at Beltre.
Our line-up is pretty much batting from the right side… (I know… Beltre wouldn´t solve that)
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM EST reply actions
It's not like there were a lot of realitistic 3B options outside of EE
Beltre? As a pipe dream, maybe but not reality.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM EST reply actions
He's great in the clubhouse!
He’s a proven winner!
He could play 3rd andmake the play by play analyse!
I say “Go for it!”
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 16, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Especially how the Botox do things the right way
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 16, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
So some form of platoon with Lind…not bad. I think Encarnacion could probably well above average defensively as a 1B.
Encarnacion could probably well above average defensively
hmmm…. Contradiction in terms??
Festina Lente
Well at least he doesn't have to throw the ball
…
AWmusic - mp3 blog.
http://twitter.com/awmusicblog
I bet he’ll end up being our third basemen. There aren’t many options out there better at this point in free agency. Maybe a trade is brewing?
by ddbumpus on Dec 16, 2010 11:09 AM EST via mobile reply actions
AA is cheap....but smart
I didn’t see EE returning, let alone platooning at 1st base with Lind and sharing DH duties.
This also means that SNIDER will be playing the outfield with Wells and Davis, and Bautista will likely start at 3rd base.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 16, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions
Orlando Hudson
I could see him be our starting 2B with hill moving to third. Put him on a 1 year contract utility lawrie is ready for the majors ( which if lawrie had his choice, he’d be he starter now, with hill backing I’m up. Because it’s Brett mother F*ckin Lawrie!!!)
by ddbumpus on Dec 16, 2010 11:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't see the big deal with what he said.
Sure he came off as brash, but I remember Eric Thames saying that he planned to try and make the team out of spring training too, and nobody ever made a big deal out of that. This is what you want the prospects of a your team to be doing, pushing themselves and always setting the bar high.
I think a lot of how he comes off has to just do with the fact that he hasn’t been trained on how to deal with the media yet. I kind of like the energy he brings, but that’s just me.
Sounds like you hit the nail on the head
Hardly moving forward. I remember E5 had 5 homers in the Arizona series (which they lost two out of three). I’m surprised he obviously got little interest from National League teams.
Just a nerdy little note. Since he’ll be listed as a 1B/DH, that will make it near impossible for him to become a compensation eligible player if he has a good year and they decline his option. (He’ll be compared to 1B, outfielders and DH’s instead of middle infielders and 3B).
On the bright side, he likely won’t be throwing to the newby Lind at first.
by Joe Jay Lun on Dec 16, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
not necessarily
because it’s based on the the last two years. So, for example, if he plays mostly first but some 3rd, he’s still be mostly a 3rd baseman over the past two seasons
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Good riddan...er, welcome back!!!
Does this mean we have to take back any bad things we said about EE when we thought he was gone?
Just wondering about the protocol. :p
Nice Signing
Really happy with this one. And if he stays healthy, the Jays easily get $2.5M value out of him.
Meh, worst case scenario is we got back what we had last year at a reduced rate. Interesting that they made a point of saying that he’ll be a 1B/DH although I’d bet that he’ll end up playing 3B a good chunk of the time.
To be fair... he was injured all spring when Butter tried to teach him 3rd base
He had 21 HRs (the Cito-Effect) in 96 games… things could be worse.
Last year we had that one guy who had his break-out season… Just a thought….
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 16, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
A few observations
I think that AA made it clear to EE that he should have a look around to see if he can get a better deal, but if he couldn’t, this would be the deal he would get if he returned to the Jays.
I think the 1B/DH thing is a bit of a misdirection. It may be done to put a little pressure on Manny to be reasonable on demands. It also identifies who could be the backup for Lind should that experiment not work out. Ultimately, barring a big signing or a spring training surprise, I think EE will be back at the hot corner with a full spring training’s worth of the Butterfield Effect.
I'd like to see what he could do at third with more work
It was really the first month of the season that his defense was awful at the position, as time went on he got better. Every 3B is going to make errors, it is the nature of the position, you don’t have time to set up for every throw.
Even Longoria makes misstakes?
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 16, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I was personally impressed with how EE seemed to polish his fielding through the year.
It seemed like it had to be something he was very conscious of, and was working hard to improve.
Reasonable demands from a Boras client?
I don’t see it happening. In fact, Boras’ attitude towards one year contracts (see how carlos pena got 10mm from the cubs) probably soured negotiations a good deal.
Boras is really funny...
If his client enjoyed a good year his price is exorbitant high…
If he had a down year (like Manny) Boras talks about the history of the player and that some people deserve exorbitant money cause they once were great and have to be paid for their reputation!
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 16, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Boras would be a fantastic agent to have though...
He has negotiated $729.25M dollars worth of contracts through 2016. Interesting graph here.
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Is AA now done adding hitters?
Most of the good relievers (except Soriano) are gone also. So are we done for the offseason?
I’m okay with the move, though not particularly excited. Definitely good value in the contract, like that it’s only a one-year contract but that we have a reasonable option to play with.
Read an interview with Anthopoulos saying he wanted some clarity on who’s playing where by the time they have team meetings (with manager and coaches) in early January I believe.
So now you’ve got enough pieces in position on the position player side, though I wouldn’t be surprised if Anthopoulos pulls another wildcard out of his sleeve over the off-season.
Terrific & Awesome Move
AA has been listening to me, apparently. :)
Very, very pleased. Wish they’d still consider using him at 3B, but that could still change.
I am actually shocked with how cheaply they got him. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is one of the best signings of this free agency period when it is all said and done.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Agreed – although I think I generally do agree with you about EE.
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Worst Move in the AA era
I trust in AA and I think he will make the Jays a winner. However, I disagree with this move….Plus we have to hear Buck Martinez butcher his name all season long…
Tom Stewart
Ugh!
I had forgotten about that in my general happiness about the EE signing.
Can AA trade Buck for a bag of balls? Or perhaps Rogers can invest a little bit and get us a good TV commentator?
You can trade Buck as Granny of Red Riding Hood, and you might get back the Big Bad Wolf...
Festina Lente
which might be the best trade ever if the Big Bad Wolf ends up eating Tabler, Rance and Cosentino…
Festina Lente
by HESS2479 on Dec 16, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If paying EE $2.5m for this year with a $3.5m club option for next year is his worst move in the AA era, he’s done amazingly well.
Considering the going FA rate for WAR, EE has to put up 0.5 WAR this year to be worth the contract. Considering he’s never put up a season of less than 1.4 WAR in a healthy year, I’d say he’s virtually a stone-cold lock to be worth the money, and almost certain to be worth more than that.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Yes
EE putting up a 3-4 WAR season would not be shocking at all, assuming he gets enough at bats.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
if his fielding improvement is for real
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
yup, it's a good point
subjectively (to me at least) his improvement did line up with his improvement on UZR, so it’s possible. he might not ever be a league average defensive 3B, but if he hits 3.5 oWAR like he was on pace for last year, anytime you get more WAR than $M, especially not on a rookie deal… I’m pretty happy about this deal you can maybe tell
I definitely agree that anecdotally his fielding did seem to improve I just hope I’m not reading too much into that combined with less than 2/3 of a season of UZR data
if his fielding goes back to his Reds days, and his offense is solid, he’ll still be well worth the $2.5 million, though he won’t be anywhere close to 3-4 WAR. Even in his best offensive years, he never put up more than 2 WAR because of that atrocious fielding. Last year was actually his second most valuable season and he only played in 96 games
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
If you take his fielding away, however (by playing him at DH, and part-time at 1B), his WAR should improve, no?
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
his bat probably isn't good enough
to be high-WAR value at DH or 1B. he’s got a good (maybe excellent) bat for 3B, but I’m not thrilled about him DHing, again especially if he actually is almost league average defensively at third
it depends on whether you are taking away
his 2010 fielding or his pre-2010 fielding. If the latter, for sure. If the former, he’s more valuable as a third baseman.
The bottom line is I trust the Jays’ analysis of his fielding – if they think he’s improved sufficiently to use him at third, that’s probably the better move. If they end up playing him at 1st and DH more, that’s probably for the best too.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
no
because 1B’s and DH’s are better hitters than 3B’s. E5 was a good hitter last year for a 3B, but much of that stems from the fact that 3B’s in the majors right now are largely terrible (this is pasrt of what makes Longoria and Beltre so valuable). His defensive shortcomings would be minimized at these positions, but it might not be enough to overcome the fact that he’d be compared to significantly better hitters. We could figure it out, but I don’t have time right now.
Plus, it’s also important to consider who would be replacing him at 3B. Even if E5’s personal WAR would increase by a move to 1B and DH, if we aren’t replacing him with a competent 3B then the team’s total WAR goes down, making the move a net minus for the Jays
Fair enough
Although if indeed the plan is to have a “quasi-platoon” with him and Lind (no clue if this is actually the idea or not), Adwin Lindcarnacion would probably be an excellent switch hitter.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
yep
even in an awful year, Lind was pretty respectable against righties last season, and EE has always hit lefties very well. Whether at third or 1st or DH, EE should always be in the lineup when a lefty is on the mound in 2011.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
As an aside
If they do use a platoon and we start talking about a nickname, I want credit for Adwin Lincarnacion. :)
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
it does have a nice ring to it
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
A whole season at DH (600PA)
Would likely put him at around 1.4-1.5WAR. Still good value for $2.5M.
9-10 RAR for batting, 0 for fielding, +20 Replacement, -15 Positional
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
not a bad value at all
but hardly ideal for a competing team
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Agreed
Though, if you look at the history of the Jays DH’es, it’s a pretty sad bunch until you include Molitor and Winfield. McGriff had a nice season there his first year and guys like Brad Fullmer and Frank Thomas have had a decent year, but there’s not that many guys that can accumulate over 2.0 WAR at DH consistently.
as a 1B/DH, he's a better option than Manny
at least he can play the field
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Okay?
I’m not sure how a $2.5M free agent signing that costs the Jays nothing could be considered the worst move of the ‘AA’ era.
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Especially...
…when considering the going rate for FAs.
As I said above, this is almost certainly a bargain deal.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Yup. At $5M/nominal win, EE is a bargain. No doubt.
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Here's a thought regarding the 3b/dh situation.
Do you think it’s a possibility that we might have something of a revolving door DH next season? It would make sense to help get JPA 500+ at bats without killing him with too much catching, have EE and Bautista could share third base duties a bit, and have another Rajai Davis type who could be a serviceable every day player in multiple positions when necessary, and a great guy to have off the bench.
Maybe I’m crazy for thinking this since the front office is publicly stating they want the fielding side of things to be JPAs priority next year, but it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if another cheap, good, everyday player can’t be found, would it?
Why didn't AA just say that EE would be a 1B/3B/DH?
by Joe Jay Lun on Dec 16, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps to encourage Adam Lind to work?
A platoon with a good competition for the job is always a good thing in my books.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Or...
…perhaps to lower the price of another 1B/DH they are targeting. If the Jays don’t “need” another DH type…well, there’s some incentive for an agent to lower their price. Especially an agent who might have a DH type that really has very few options other than Toronto.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Because he's keeping his options open and isn't ready to announce himself inflexible to bringing in another player for the right price I'd imagine.
But if he can’t find the right player to fill that last hole, would he be opposed to the scenario I suggested? It’s just a thought.
i still think we're getting a 3B
and i’m hoping its Gordon
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Fairly certain he could move back to 3B if a team decided they wanted to play him there.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
not particularly well
-2.1 career UZR/150 at third (small-ish sample size alert, 330 GP). if we trust Encarnacion actually did make an improvement and that’s why he was -1.5 RAR in half a season last year, it’s a wash. if not, Gordon is better, but likely not by a huge margin (especially since we know E5 can hit Major League pitching pretty well)
Upside, destroyed minors, former consensus elite prospect.
Worthwhile of a flyer, I think. If he can put it together, he could be a steal. He was projected to be a Longoria-esque prospect.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
and still relatively young and cheap
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I get that.
But if you’re ‘buying low’ so to speak, wouldn’t it be prudent not to focus on one specific player? Seems like it’d be a recipe for potentially overpaying.
I mean I understand the allure of a guy who rakes in the minors, struggles in the majors and still has relative youth.
But he seems like the only player anyone has interest in. I guess I just don’t understand what makes him so special. Wouldn’t a blocked prospect who doesn’t have that baggage like, say, yonder alonso be more preferrable even if the cost was higher?
alonso's a 1B
Gordon can play avg D at 3B
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
We are still short a longer term solution at 1B though. Unless Lind or EE breaks out and can establish themselves there.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Yonder Alonso is a great guy to target, although I think the price could be higher than you’d like. They are trying to convert him to OF, so he won’t be blocked by Votto.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
I wasn't aware that he was being converted to an outfielder.
There goes my notion of him being the protypical great prospect who has no future on their current club due to being blocked by an elite player lol.
He's playing 1B/DH right?
right?
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 11:50 AM EST reply actions
This was basically the perfect deal for the Jays. They get an undervalued player cheap that they can use in a couple of ways. If Encarnacion stays healthy and slugs, he’s a potential trade chip or simply effective bat in the lineup.
What I like about this signing is that it matches up with what the Jays have said; there is a set value they place on particular talent, and if it lines up, it’s a deal they make. With errant arm and injury problems, EE wasn’t worth the $5M+ he’d get in arbitration, but as a $2.5M utility IF/DH, he’s a great value for the team.
Not to mention the club option
If EE puts it together and has 30HR season (which he certainly has the upside to do), the club option will look absolutely golden (either for the Jays, or as a trade chip).
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Personally...
i just DO NOT want to see Encarnacion throwing across the diamond to Lind that could be a DISASTER!
Also, if he’s moving to 1B does his nickname change from E5 to E3?
his glove and athleticism are easily good enough for first
make all the cracks about his arm you want (I think he’s just fine) but let’s not go overboard
i agree he’d be ok at 1B but it’s his throws that were the issue, and Lind won’t be able to save some of them that Overbay did
He won't have to
i doubt there’s more than 5 games with EE on 3B and Lind on 1B
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
e3 is a good nickname for him anyway
regardless of position, because his middle name starts with an E
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
B^3 is certainly divided on E^3?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on Dec 16, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You just blew my mind
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
If A^2 likes
E^3, that should be good enough for B^3
by njd on Dec 16, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Bam Rec
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
good deal on balance
Encarnacion can hit and should easily be worth $2.5 million. He’ll be a good option as a right handed DH and first baseman and could be the Jays’ best option as an everyday third baseman, assuming Bautista stays inthe outfield
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
really, it's an absolute steal
if they slot him at third and he stays healthy, he should fairly easily put up 2 WAR+ making him worth $8M+. no matter how they use him this is a great signing
even if he's used as a bench guy/spot starter
I figure he’ll easily put up ~1WAR and be well worth his contract
I still think he’s going to end up playing a good amount of 3B, unless the Jays acquire someone else or move Hill.
I don’t see Bautista, with everything that’s he’s done last year and the benefits of playing him in RF rather than 3B, being anything more than a stopgap 3B option.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
assuming
Wouldn’t you rather see an outfield made of SNIDER, DAVIS and WELLS? That would leave Bautista at 3B.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 16, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Personally...
…no. I don’t want Davis part of an everyday lineup.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
I'm not sold on Davis as an everyday player
as his career numbers against righties are pretty bad. And the Jays seem to prefer Bautista in the outfield. I hope the Jays have another position-player (or DH) move in them this offseason so I’m not sure what the optimal alignment is going to be. I don’t mind that lineup against lefties though, with EEE playing 1st or DH
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
No thank you.
I’d sacrifice a little defense and play Snider Wells Jedi. Davis is an excellent 4th outfielder and a definite upgrade over Wise.
Ok, what the hell Alex?
I understand, it’s a a process. Sometimes you have to take one step back, to take two steps forward. Bla bla bla bla.
I have no idea what the hell is going on anymore. We lose Marcum, Buck, Downs, Overbay, Gregg…I’m sure I’m forgetting someone. Oh well Craig, at least we got to trim some fat and lost E5 and Tallet. Nope, lets take this bum back. Seriously, what good did he do in the 2 years as a Jay? He had about 3 hot series’ in 2 years and the rest of the time he was a strikeout and error machine. It’s going to be a long and painful 2011 as the rest of the AL East has gotten better, we’ve gotten conciderably worse.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions
I agree but we were all saying the same things last season
And we improved!
by Joe Jay Lun on Dec 16, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
we literally did not lose anything in this deal
we keep the same (hopefully, IMO, 3B) for a third of his arbitration award and get another year of control for super, duper cheap
My mom has "30 HR potential"
He’s had 30 HR potential for years….and what about his “D” is improving?"
You can’t play him at 3B, Lyle isn’t there to bail him out over and over….you can’t play him at DH, he seems largely uninterested in what the hell is happening in the game when he is playing the field, wait till he sits on the bench for an hour at a time. Lind seems to be the way we are going at 1B. He’s going to be a utility player and having a streaky player like E5 as a utility player does us no damn good.
I’m sorry, I’ve seen enough out of him in the 2 years to know the only thing Edwin is going to help us do, is compete for 4th place.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I know you're a lost cause (everyone hates certain players)
but the guy hit 21 dingers in not even 2/3 of a full season’s worth of plate appearances
Why is it that he only played 2/3 of a season?
Oh thats right, he was sent down to AAA because is accuracy was Jamarcus Russelesque
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
BEST OFFSEASON EVAAARRRRR!!!!!
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah I think he was only in the minors for a week
and he made a mockery of AAA pitching for that week
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I’m pretty neutral on EE. At 1st base his defense should be good though and it gives some backup in case Lind doesn’t work out there. Is EE at first and upgrade or downgrade from Overbay overall?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Did your mom also hit 21 homers in 350~ at bats last year?
Snark aside though, I think he showed a pretty drastic improvement in fielding last year. It’s easy to remember nothing but the times he threw the ball away, but it isn’t accurate or fair to the legitimate improvements he made.
I fail to see the downside in acquiring a player that can play the 3 positions where we have the biggest holes right now for an extremely reasonable contract is a bad idea.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Edwin had much better than Lind in 2010
both have similar career numbers.
Lind’s salary in 2011 is twice that of Encarnacion’s
Encarnacion has athleticism that can stick at 3B (disregard the arm), Lind is a DH
i don’t want to pull out the racism card, but seriously…
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
good points
I’d add that Lind is only 6 months younger. On the other hand, Lind’s development was stalled until 2009 when had a 3.5 WAR season – EE has never even put up a 2 WAR season, mostly because of horrid defense (pre-2010) and/or injury (2010).
To me the real factor is that Lind is home-grown while EE was an import, and the Jays have a long-term commitment to Lind so fans sort of have to hope that 2009 was the real Lind and 2010 was the outlier. Fans haven’t had a real reason to give EE the benefit of the doubt.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I clearly hate Edwin because of his colour.
Weird comment with someone with your name.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He hit 21 in 96 games..
Do the math, you’re starting to sound ridiculous..rag on Lind if you’re going to rag on someone..he can’t play defence at all..he can’t hit lefties, and he makes twice as much as Edwin. Way worse value in my books.
if you can't hit someone
better to choose lefties – way easier to find a lefty-mashing platoon guy. we have no idea if he can defend, he played 10 games there in 2010, and it’s not like we’re paying him $15M a year. if he can bounce back with an 850 OPS or so season (he was about 950 in 2009) he’ll be a perfectly solid player
The rest of the AL East has gotten better?
Do you know something about the Yankees and Rays that the rest of us don’t know?
by Defense Counts! on Dec 17, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
Great move
hopefully the1B/DH title is just a ploy to lower thew price tag for Manny, but more and more I don’t think it’s happening
I really hope you are right about them leveraging this against Manny
E5 at this price at 3B would be a good pickup (and at this price, we can always release him if a better option comes along). He’ll be an above-average 3B offensively and average-to-slightly-below-average defensively. For $2.5M, that’s a bargain and a half.
Now to sign Manny (please, please, please!!)
that would be a canny bit of gamesmanship
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Exactly what I said above
And it seems like something AA could try. Can’t hurt.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
This actually makes a lot of sense
E5 can fill a lot of roles: Chuck the ball around at 3B full time? Sure. Spend some time at 1B with Lind? Sure. Power hitting pinch hitter in NL parks? Sure. Bench player in case Brett Lawrie is ready for full time 3B duty? Yup
Any chance
the A’s pickup and decline arbitration of EE was part of the Davis trade?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:15 PM EST reply actions
That's an interesting theory
Of course, there is no guarantee that we could get him back. But definitely an interesting theory.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
No idea either. But it would explain the A’s picking him up and then not offering him arbitration. I can’t think of any other rationale for doing that.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so
Why would there be any reason to just too include him in the trade and risk a lower ranked team picking him up off of waivers
His salary would have scared off the lower ranked teams. Maybe not some of the higher ranked ones though.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt anyone would have claimed him though actually. If they wanted him at $5M they could have had him now for that. I still don’t know why the A’s claimed him. It doesn’t make much sense.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
The A's claimed him
So they could try to work out a deal with him while he was under club control. Nobody, Oakland included, was going to risk going to arbitration with EE, but if they could have worked out a $2.5M + option deal with him, they would have signed him in a heartbeat.
At least, that’s what I suspect.
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
We need to
find a pitcher with proven power for interleague play.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yovani Gallardo hit like five homers this year.
I wonder if the brewers would be interested in Brett Lawrie… Think of the possibilities!
What about having Bautista pitch an interleague game or two?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder what the next move is?
Trade Snider to the Cards for Tallet?
Vernon Wells contract extention?
Kevin Millar colour commentator?
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 12:28 PM EST reply actions
I'm sympathetic
I totally irrationally loathed Brad Fullmer even though he was actually a fine to very good player for the Jays.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
actually, looking back at his numbers now, maybe I had a point
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
the one season looks great until you consider the offensive climate
a 120 OPS+ from a DH is good but hardly great. And the next season was actually pretty bad considering the context.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
He was ok in Montreal as a 23 year old.
He’s one that I kind of projected improvement in my mind and he didn’t improve
E5 has hit a chord that Fullmer never came close to
Maybe you irrationally appreciate E5. But on this site and at MLB Trade Rumors there is a lot of hate for EE. I didn’t appreciate him much last year but I haven’t been following WAR too closely. I liked that he zipped the ball across the diamond as a 3B but it made me nervous each time.
by Joe Jay Lun on Dec 16, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
actually I don't particularly like EE
As a former all glove and wheels, no bat guy, I like players who can field and/or run, and I’m not convinced EE’s improvement in the field 2010 was for real (though I sure hope it was).
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Haven’t almost all of his errors been throwing errors? That shouldn’t be much of an issue at 1st and is almost certainly a non-issue at DH.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t particularly care about the errors. EEE’s range accounted for more of his defensive (negative) value than errors prior to last season, mostly because range is more important to defense than errors.
But, anyway, Edwin’s footwork was pretty horrible (until 2010 when it seemed to improve) and that’s quite important at first base. If you just want a guy who can catch the ball at first and not make too many errors, I’m sure Lind can provide that
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I thought his range and overall
defense was better than Bautista at 3rd this year. Was Bautista that bad or am I pulling a Roger Clemons?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
for sure, I wasn't counting 2010
where he actually had above average range according to UZR (and was above-average overall according to DRS). that’s what I mean when I say I’m not sure the improvement is for real.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
He's a good fit
if we are actually going to play all of our player this year. The Jays have all sorts of lineup flexibility now. They will have even more if they sign a 2nd baseman.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
He should have average range for 1st even given a regression. The comparables probably have less range at 1st also? Especially if Lind is the comparable.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'd imagine
if he is prepared to take the time to learn the position, he’d be absolutely fine at first, possibly even above average
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
It did seem hard to believe a guy could make it to the majors without learning where his feet should go
I’m not sure if that says more about the Reds then it does EE or not. He did seem to get it with lots of work. I did see Butterfield working with him once there. Reminding him what should be happening. He did look teachable but maybe not.
I can guarantee you that the Jays would not have brought him back if he wasn't teachable.
Why would you bring a guy with technical flaws who wouldn’t be willing to work on fixing those flaws? You have to think that despite the Jays listing him as a 1B/DH, there’s a very good chance he could end up playing 3B.
I take it for granted that Butterfield's opinion was sought before they resigned him
I understand the coaches and Alex have been talking quite a bit.
Yes, Butter and Farrell were consulted
from the jays website:
“Toronto’s GM talked with new manager John Farrell and third-base coach Brian Butterfield prior to the signing, and the group thinks that Encarnacion has the strong hands and range it will take to succeed.”
The context is first base, however.
by bluejaysstatsgeek on Dec 16, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
we are going to seriously suck in 2011
We lose perhaps the best middle reliever in the team’s history (Downs), a mediocre but solid closer (Gregg) and our #2 starter (Marcum) and replace them with . . . nothing. (and this is even assuming JP is a push with Buck’s ’10, which is anything but certain)
It’s gonna be real ugly . . . we also should factor in 1-2 major elbow injuries in our rotation since they were all so healthy last year and no one can avoid that—especially our Jays.
At least we’ll get a top 10 pick!
by Original Aaron on Dec 16, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions
jsut like we won 65 games in 2010
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Hey it's the offseason . . .
We’re supposed to be overly enthusiastic and project all our players to improve over last year’s performances.
by Joe Jay Lun on Dec 16, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Holy smokes
And people thought I was a downer for my comments a week or so ago…
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
You're still the officcial Debbie Downer...
Your job is safe. At least until Craig in Calgary blows his gasket to the stratosphere…
Festina Lente
People are seriously overreacting to the lack of big name free agent signings.
The team really isn’t much worse for wear at the moment than it was last season.
FWIW, sweating the fate of middle relief is way too over the top. Downs has been fantastic, but replacing middle relievers is the easiest personnel thing to do in baseball.
Gregg is an average close. Finding an at least average closer shouldn’t be that hard either.
Marcum is a player that we will miss, but the Jays have a lot of pitchers who are on the cusp of playing the majors. AA was going to have to deal with the logjam at the 5th starter anyway. He’s solved that problem too. Yes, the young staff could struggle. But they also could flourish.
I can’t believe we’re crying over losing Kevin Gregg of all people!
Even if we don’t sign another bullpen arm, a) Closer simply ISN’T that important, and b) What is wrong with a potential bullpen of Villenueva, Frasor, Purcey, Roenicke, and Rzep/Litsch/Richmond/McGowan.
Maybe we need one more arm in the pen, but relievers are a dime a dozen, and seriously overpayed right now. Hell, we signed Gregg last year in January, didn’t we? Why can’t we sign that one more arm in January this year?
by masterkembo on Dec 16, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, 2010 was awesome—we had some individual achievements and finished miles behind in 4th place, not even with a sniff of the playoffs and the most important young players in the lineup (Snider/JP) didn’t develop at all . . . and this year is going to be much more sleep-inducing. Rose-coloured glasses are for corporate lackeys. Screw Rogers and this boring-ass team.
by Original Aaron on Dec 16, 2010 12:34 PM EST reply actions
don't worry about it
the bandwagon installed new foot ladders so you don’t have to jump off and hurt yourself
well....if you don't like them...
this is the wrong place for you…Somewhere on here it must say ‘Blue Jays blog’.
Can't you at least wait till the 1st game till you jump off the band waggon?
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 16, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I've been called a lot of stuff
but never a corporate lackey.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on Dec 16, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather be called a Corporate Lackey, than a John Lackey
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
double hey-o
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
SUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
we sued an oil company yesterday
guess which one…
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I didn't know you were a government lawyer.
Oh can you get us behind the scene stuff on the Obama administration?
we at DOJ
are all planning for the great Socialist takeover
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
this thread wins
for most Princess Bride references
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
not to mention
a surprising number of classical Rome references
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
What are the odds of EE being
a Type ‘B’ free agent in either 2011 or 2012?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:38 PM EST reply actions
Would his 20 HR’s at 3rd this year put him on pace for type B status? Or is he far away now? AA seems to like to pick up cheap players who might get the Jays a draft pick. Just thought this might be a factor also.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
he'd almost certainly be a B with a good season at third
assuming he stayed healthy
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I'm not at all
I was just answering the question that was asked
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
the reverse-engineered Elias rankings
had him as fairly close to a B at the end of last season, and that’s with an awful 2009 (which won’t factor in after 2011) and an injured 2010
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Will Brett Lawrie be given a chance at the majors in spring training?
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 16, 2010 12:42 PM EST reply actions
I doubt it
seems silly to rush him, and they’re certainly not going to want him to be a super 2. if he mashes in the Minors maybe he could be a July call-up?
I don't think so.
I do think it is worth pointing out that we have differ ideas about language than say the Drunks have.
Really?
I found the language used on both sites was fairly similar.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
but the same ideas about drunkenness
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Probably
I don’t mind people who have questions or complaints or have issues with moves (we all do), but that guy’s posts were bordering on hysterical unfounded panic for the sake being dramatic.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 16, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't the one who deleted it
but I’m guessing it was deleted for profanity
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
That was my doing...
There is language that I don’t like to have on the site. If you can’t express yourself without George Carlin’s 7 words then there is a problem
we're actually more lenient than some of the SB sites
wtf will get you a warning on some
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
that's also very true
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
One of the sites
I can’t remember which, allows 1 curse a month, which I think would be a really fun rule.
we do have the Clemens rule
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
A warning for "What a Terrible Failure"?
Now that’s strict.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I just got here, so Im going with no.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I'm waiting for the angry email telling me how terrible I am to have deleted his comment
I mean Hugo was told to #### ### yesterday, I’m feeling unloved.
I've never been the subject of a rant like that
from a non-homeless person
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
just for a taste
he told me at the end that the reason I was an idiot was that I’ve never had the crap kicked out of me because of my pampered upbringing (if only he knew). Then he assured me that he, on the other hand, had been beaten up viciously many, many times.
I never would have guessed
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I did like the bit saying how he didn't misspell a word
that we spell different here in Canada. I’m using that line in the future.
IQ is directly proportional to the number of ass kickings you got as a child.
Who would have thought?
It sounds about right. Get hit on the head numerous times while developing, your IQ suffers from the damage… wait, that’s not what he meant?
And the amount of paint consumed!
mmmmmm Wall Candy
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Was it a good Crazy Rant?
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
oh man, it was epic
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I still think we should collect the hate mail we get and put it in a post someday
not that there is all that much but some of it is good
on the rare occasions that I ban someone
I always have this nagging guilty feeling that even though the person clearly crossed a line, that the person is just having a bad day. and then typically they send me an e-mail and my decision is totally reaffirmed
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
What gets me is
half the time, you ban someone and they rant at me, like I’m going to over rule you.
so we're like the two Roman consuls
we have to agree or nothing gets done
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
does that make me the Cicero and you the Cato?
Not that they were ever consul the same year
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I have, on occasion, been told I'm stubborn.
course if you listed all the possible character flaws and threw a dart at them, odds are pretty good I’ve been called it in the last few weeks.
I don't like the implication that my morals are so adaptable
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
He’s a wishy washy suit?
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
now that
I can get behind
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I just got one
now I’m getting your hate mail?
He asked if I was a policeman. As I told him, that’s surprisingly close.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Bahahahah
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
he claims it was a banning
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Reason I like this site
I like this site because posters do not get into ridiculous vecious personal attacks on each other. I guess I never really thought about it but I see now that is because some posts are deleted and some posters are banned. This is great for the readers but requires extra thick skin for the moderators because this causes the attacks to be directed at them. So moderators, keep up the good work, know we appreciate your work, and carry on as your are doing.
by leonard euler on Dec 17, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You have the right to free speech
As long as you’re not dumb enough to actually try it
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
by jessef on Dec 17, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty good lineup
Escobar
Snider
Bautista
Ramirez (pretty please)
Lind
Wells
Hill
Arencibia
Encarnanion
yeah, if things break right you could see
Bautista, Yunie, and Manny being significantly above average for their positions, and the rest not significantly below
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
for sure, as has Lind, and EE, too
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Snider too
this is a lineup with some solid potential. JPA could probably wOBA .325, no? that’s solid enough for a catcher
A jack Cust type would have helped make the offense a little more well rounded.
Any of those kind of high obp guys left on the market outside of manny?
Dreaming....
Escobar 10hr
Snider 25hr
Bautista 35hr
Ramirez (pretty please) 30hr
Lind 30hr
Wells 25hr
Hill 25hr
Arencibia 20hr
Encarnanion 25hr
= 225 hr + any others hit by the backup players
I think I was being reasonably conservative on my guesses
i can see it happening in RC
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
if they both hit like last year...
then you’d have 3 guys in a row that don’t hit lefties. Wells has had reverse splits for a couple of years in a row now.
You're right
not too many of them LH at all last year..EE did pretty good though
Tom/Hugo
You should add a poll to this post.
I’d be interested to see the results.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 1:02 PM EST reply actions
The Jays want him to be listed as a 1B/DH
This must be because the are planning on signing a 2B or 3B and want the position to appear open.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 1:09 PM EST reply actions
wouldn't the logic work the other way around?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
What I mean is that
it is easier to sign a 3rd baseman if you can guarantee that person the starting job. Declaring EE as a 1B/DH eliiminates any murkiness.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm late to this party
but this is exactly the kind of thing I like to see (sorry, craig). The team option for 2012 is a great touch.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
and maybe he can have a great half and trade him
just like we did with Gonzo
'PANIC' doesn't describe it by half!!!
This just in: “Bluejays re-sign Encarnacion…….Lind asks to spend 2011 (with a 1- year player option) playing for the 51’s”.
by Design8tedrallykiller on Dec 16, 2010 1:12 PM EST reply actions
here's what Bautista has to say about it
EE12 is back!! We just got better…
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
EE12?
Doesn’t have the same double entendre of E5
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm
Results are pretty in favour of liking the deal.
I guess time heals all wounds.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 1:15 PM EST reply actions
was an errant throw from third
hit Craig’s dog standing in the back yard, in Calgary. Now that was a bad throw.
by Tom Dakers on Dec 16, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He was also responsible for the hole in the Metrodome roof.
He attempted to throw to first, and boom…2 years later catastrophe
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
He is the 6 fingered man that killed my father.
by Tom Dakers on Dec 16, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
stop saying that!
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
by hugo on Dec 16, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At the Body Works exhibit at the Science Center in Calgary
one of the bodies was of a 6 fingered, 6 toed man. For some reason I was the only one that found it funny.
I don't hate anyone.
I just don’t want him anywhere near my baseball team.
All he has been is “30 HR potential” since he got here and just awful defense.
Granted his numbers aren’t as bad as he has actually been as he has the ability to have a series in Arizona and go 9 for 12 with 7 HR’s which covers up alot of the stank.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be interested to see a study
on whether it is better to put up a 100 OPS+ in a streaky way or whether it’s more valuable to do it consistently. I remember the pitching study showing it’s better to have a few dominant outings and a few awful ones than have all so-so starts
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
That's actually a really interesting thought.
So it’s sort of like wondering how wpa should integrate into war I suppose.
i was wondering that too
since, if you have a few fantastic outings, wouldn’t you be likely to have some huge WPA scores? even if you get a bunch of negative scores in your bad games.
Not necessarily
As outlined in this fangraphs piece (though I don’t agree with the premise of the piece, he does answer that question)
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/tulos-wpa-and-the-mvp-award/
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
I think it would depend on your
team and the scores of the games you were streaky in. ie: If you were streaky in close games that would be helpful. But if all of your streaky games were 15-3 blowouts then it wouldn’t make much difference to the team.
Also, if you are on a losing team consistency isn’t good. If you are on a winning team consistent production is great.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
right, definitely
I guess you’d have to consider the average leverage… it’d be interesting to see how “they” did the data analysis
That is an interesting thought
Could you use WPA, OPS+ and outcome to figure something like that. Run some sort of regression analysis? I’m kind of fuzzy on what it would take…
I'd wait and see
often we have poll results change dramatically when time passes and more casual readers find their way to the site
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I like.
The final touch you put on the poll question. lol
Welcome back, Incarashone
Wonder if he’ll be joining Lind, Mordecai, and Butters in Dunedin this winter.
Matt Germain at Jays Journal brought up a good point. The Yankees are going with Posada at DH this year. Check out the numbers comparison with EE.
http://jaysjournal.com/2010/12/16/edwin-encarnacion-returns-to-the-jays/
50 points of OBP is an awful lot
but I don’t expect a repeat of EE’s 2010 OBP – it was driven by low BABIP
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Obscenely low BABIP
for much of the year. Some of the numbers trotted out midseason were absolutely absurd.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Sweet
Plinko is on “The Price is Right”.
by craig in calgary on Dec 16, 2010 1:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
heh rec.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Thin Drew Carey creeps me out.
Reminds me of the quote from Lock Stock and two smoking barrels,
Soap: You’re not funny, Tom. You’re fat, and look as though you should be, but you’re not.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I liked Plinko as a kid
because I didn’t know the price of anything.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I took a quick look at some of the DH type hitters that were linked to the Jays so far this offseason and guesstimated their 2011 WAR based on 600 PA, all at DH. I regressed the older guys by 0.5 win, which is pretty standard.
EE – 1.5 WAR
Vladimir Guerrero – 1.7 WAR
Lance Berkman – 1.2 WAR
Jim Thome – 1.6 WAR (I used his 2009 numbers because I’m pretty sure 2010 was a blip. He was following a pretty standard regression before last year)
Derek Lee – 0.7 WAR
Manny Ramirez – 3.0 WAR (he hasn’t come close to 600PA the past 2 years…)
Other than Manny, EE fits in pretty well with this bunch. Even if he DH’s, I think it’s a good signing.
i believe in re-encarnacion
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Dec 16, 2010 1:57 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
Hmmm over 300 posts
What will happen if we sign an above average player?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 2:00 PM EST reply actions
Quite probably. Theoretical poll question:
Do you think the internet will explode if the Jays sign an above average free agent?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 16, 2010 2:07 PM EST reply actions
Yes, if the Jays sign ManRam
Then we’ll get comments from a couple of folks about how AA’s plan is just an illusion and how we’re all stupid lackeys because we don’t think that the ship is sinking.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 16, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
What are the Ramifications?
EE at 1B/DH:
1. Trade for a 3B. A.Gordon, C. McGehee? after Beltre the FA market is pretty bare
2. Bautista starts at 3B, Davis starts in the OF
3. Lawrie is ready to rumble at 3B
EE at 3B.
1. Sign 1B/DH. Lee, Ramirez, Vladdy, Thome? Lawrie can have a year to learn 3B/OF in LV and EE turns iinto type B.
I thiink there’s tooo many question marks with EE at 1B and AA is using it to driving down the price of the remaining FA’s. It could also result in EE playing a little bit everywhere this year too.
I think that's part of what makes me like this deal so much.
Having EE still leaves a lot of flexibility open for AA to pursue a first base/dh type, OR a third baseman OR an outfielder depending on what is available on the fa market and trade market, and which player makes the most sense for the price. If AA has demonstrated anything during his tenure, it’s that he values flexibility. In that respect, this is almost like the perfect under the radar signing to me. I mean come on, it even includes a cheap club option for next year!
This Blog
This signing was a little surprising, but some on here predicted it may happen. Crazy that I was actually working all day, did not check in to this or twitter and I see 366 comments on us signing EE at a decent rate.
The blog is definitely getting more popular. Good to see in the winter.
Now, as Lambo says, I want Rammy, Lee, Gordon something to get excited about. So far we have traded Davis, JPA for Buck and Overbay. We need one more bat in this lineup.
Because it never gets old
And I can’t believe no one has posted it yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrTK9lvkCQg&feature=youtu.be
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
by JohnnyG on Dec 16, 2010 5:17 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
hopefully he has a bautista like outbreak
he has the power for sure
into the mashed potateos
worst move of the AA ERA so far
Forget the WAR arguments. These are stats for people who don’t watch players play the game. How does signing a no hit, poor fielding player who takes every other at bat off and rarely hustles make our team better for the long term? Thought we were after players with high ceilings? Players who want to win?
This combined with the utter and total lack of looking at free agents is starting to make me think that we are truly just cutting payroll. They just brought in a different/ Canadian face to do it.
1 – We now have limited experience in pressure situations and no closer in the pen
2 – No average, low OBP and average defense at best at first (Note I’m not an Overbay fan)
3- ? at 3rd (Likely Bautista)
This year will be a big step back. A market the size of Toronto (4th largest in North America) we should have gone after a quality 1st base option and added Jesse Crain to shore up the back end of the pen. welcome to mediocrity.
Is this line up going to make anyone (namely Morrow/ Cecil) want to sign long term?
ummmm....no
Not when all they are trying to do is keep payroll down.
Even the Giants spent 90M last year
long term deal?
he has amazing power, maybe his eye and contact come around. Not alot of guys have his power. did you complain when they signed bautista?
jesse crain would shore up our pen? really?
into the mashed potateos
because power is what we are lacking
average? on Base? Speed? bat control? timely hitting….naahhh…..those don’t win games. Let’s go with a HR or nothing offense again….worked well for us last year in Oct….wait we weren’t playing in Oct…coincidence?
No way! Doubles are better!
Wait…..
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
also he hits lefties very well which is something we need. he doesnt strike out much and hes young. hard to see why your so critical
into the mashed potateos
266 is not hitting lefties well
let’s raise our sights a bit higher or is 80-85 wins all you want?
he does hit lefties well
you need some patience. once our starting pitching matures then well see AA sign some top level free agents. for now were picking up high ceiling young players. not high ceiling free agents. what would be the point of signing an expensive old 1B
into the mashed potateos
semantics
Don’t fall for this hype about high ceiling young players. It’s Rogers speak for we are cutting payroll and moving games to sportsnetHD to make you pay for them. All they want is to pad the 4B in profits they made last year
sportsnet HD is bullshit
but the effort to go after high ceiling players is real
into the mashed potateos
If we can develop them
we haven’t developed a true offensive force since Delgado
do you know who jose bautista is?
into the mashed potateos
Sarcasm.....We drafted Bautista
right………and he has been on a tear for years
youve never seen a baseball game before have you?
into the mashed potateos
you dont think jose bautista is an offensive force?
into the mashed potateos
I don't agree with him
But we didn’t develop Jose Bautista. He didn’t come through our system
Plus
whose to say that they will develop at the same time?
just like how you body developed but you brain still hasnt
into the mashed potateos
real maturity....
Einstein please slow down in the battle of wit
you need me to slow down to come to your level
but i refuse. not my fault your stupid
into the mashed potateos
okay, that's enough
I appreciate the disagreement here, but let’s refrain from attacking the person – that goes for everyone
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
no worries
it happens to everyone
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I suppose you think the international free agent signings and overslot spending during the draft this year were all some sort of elaborate illusion then?
You know, because if those things actually happened, which they did, that would be a pretty strong sign that the front office is spending big money on improving the farm system, right? But I guess spending 10 million dollars on an highly touted Cuban shortstop prospect was ‘rogers speak for we are cutting payroll’. Brilliant.
isn't he mexican?
into the mashed potateos
he's Venezuelan
so you know hes good
into the mashed potateos
Don’t forget paying first round money to secure a great talent who slipped to the fifth round due to a commitment to Rice University. All diabolical trick from the evil Rogers Empire to fool us into believing that they are willing to spend on high upside prospects. BWAHAHAHAHAHAH
tons of guys over slot
even some later round picks, like Hutchison for example
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
its all an optical illusion
into the mashed potateos
Little Girl: [looking at a Magic Eye poster] Wow. It’s a schooner.
Willam Black: Ha ha ha ha. You dumb bastard. It’s not a schooner… it’s a Sailboat.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
If your solution to the bullpen is Jesse Crain...
….well, you kinda just shot your own argument in the foot.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
particularly when he signed a 3-year deal
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Again
How can the worst move of the AA Era be a $2.5M free agent signing??? We didn’t give up anybody, even if he’s the worst player in all of baseball this year (which he isn’t), this move doesn’t hurt the team, because it cost them nothing.
by masterkembo on Dec 17, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Critical?
going on 18 years without a playoff birth in the 4th largest market in the baseball. You’re asking why i’m critical when we sign fringe stop gaps?
Stand corrected
a stop gap means we have players ready to step in…..which other than pitching we don’t have. Maybe we can partner up with the Brewers. They know how to spot hitters and we have pitchers down pat
didnt we already do that
into the mashed potateos
Facetious
but saying let them make our draft pics in 2011 and we’ll make thiers
My point is
Even AA make mistakes…..and this is one of them
you have no point
he signed a guy to the bench on a 1 year deal. a guy with massive power and is still pretty young
into the mashed potateos
its a win, no lose situation
into the mashed potateos
I completely agree
I mean, absolute worst case scenario is he sits on the bench and we overpay him by a million dollars. best case is he’s a very useful player
actually I have a point
The point is that E5 is a waste of a roster spot and once again all that power really worked well last year getting us into the playoffs
why is he a waste of a roster spot
because he’s an excellent power hitter, was above average offensively despite very bad on luck on balls in play, had a pretty decent offensive season (according to metrics, and subjectively he looked much improved from 2009), and is on an extremely cheap deal with another cheap team option?
decent
half his homers were in 2 series…anyone but Cito would have had him glued to the bench.
and again we don\t need power….even AA agreed we need On base, average
is that why AA just signed edwin?
into the mashed potateos
Doc never got the Jays into the playoffs either
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
425+ comments on a good but not great signing,
ether people are arguing without using stats again or Encarnacion is very popular
Didn't you know?
Signing a player for 5% of our annual payroll instead of conjuring a high-ceiling, major-league ready player out of thin air signals that the front office cares more about money than winning and the Jays are doomed to mediocrity forevermore. It is an event that must be marked.
I think the joke was that
a couple people arguing without stats drastically increases the number of comments because it brings everyone else into the conversation.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Anthopoulos still working on 3B
From Shi Davidi in the Globe and Mail:
Not done is the situation at third base, Encarnacion’s old position.
Aside from perhaps the odd start, or in the event of injury, he won’t play there at all, and while the Blue Jays would like to keep Jose Bautista in right field, they may end up using him to plug the hole at third, where the home run king played 48 games this year.
That still remains to be sorted.
"We’re not prepared to make a determination yet as to who’s playing third base," said Anthopoulos. "We’re still in talks with a lot of players and trades, so we’re really keeping our options at this point."
The same applies to the outfield and the bullpen, two other areas where the Blue Jays "continue to explore," according to the GM.
Conflicted
The deal is a good one for the team, and I think there’s no way that he doesn’t get better from the last two years, but there’s still this gnawing feeling I get thinking about him at 3rd again (if that is indeed where he ends up).
Cito is my homeboy
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