Jays Sign 6 to Minor League Contracts
by Tom Dakers on Dec 21, 2010 11:47 AM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays News
Email
PrintHere is the press release. We knew about Abreu, Budde and Stokes. Henn pitched in Vegas last year. Patterson was a first round pick in the 1998 draft.
BLUE JAYS SIGN SIX
The TORONTO BLUE JAYS have signed OF COREY PATTERSON, RHP WINSTON ABREU, C RYAN BUDDE, LHP SEAN HENN, LHP MIKE HINCKLEY and RHP BRIAN STOKES to minor league contracts with invites to Major League spring training.
PATTERSON, 31, spent last season with Baltimore, posting a .269 average with eight home runs and 32 RBI in 90 games. The Atlanta, Georgia native has appeared in 1097 games over an 11-year career, recording a .253 average with 112 home runs, 395 RBI and 205 stolen bases.
ABREU, 33, spent the previous season in the Rays organization, going 0-4 with a 2.28 ERA in 51 relief appearances with Durham (AAA). The Cotui, Sanchez Ramirez, Dominican native has appeared in 38 major league games, all in relief, while posting a career 0-1 record with a 7.31 ERA.
BUDDE, 31, spent last season in the Los Angeles Angels system, appearing in 53 games for Salt Lake (.244, HR, 13 RBI) and six for Los Angeles (.400, HR, 3RBI). The right-handed hitting catcher has been with Los Angeles for all nine of his professional seasons and has appeared in 29 games for the Angels, posting a career .212 average with one home run and four RBI.
HENN, 29, spent last season in the Blue Jays organization pitching in Las Vegas of the Pacific Coast League (AAA). The Fort Worth, Texas native posted a record of 3-4 with two saves while owning an ERA of 4.73 in 38 games (nine starts). The lefthander has appeared in 60 major league games (five starts), posting a record of 2-9 with an ERA of 7.56.
HINCKLEY, 28, spent last season in the Orioles organization, going 1-5 with a 3.86 ERA in a combined 30 games (one start) between Bowie (AA) and Norfolk (AAA). The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma native was originally drafted by the Montreal Expos in the 3rd round of the 2001 June Draft. The southpaw has appeared in 28 major league games, all with the Nationals in 2008-2009, posting an ERA of 1.93 in 28 relief appearances.
STOKES, 31, appeared in 16 games for the Los Angeles Angels last season, posting an 8.10 ERA in 16.2 innings. The Pomona, California native also made 13 appearances for Salt Lake in the Pacific Coast League (AAA), going 1-1 with a 3.78 ERA. In five seasons the right-hander has appeared in 173 major league games with three teams (Tampa Bay, New York Mets, Los Angeles) recording a 6-11 mark with a 5.27 ERA.
190 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Patterson
I think he’s a good pickup. Plays decent defense, can play center, lots of speed, and glimpses of power. Likely the best 5th OF on the market and provides a lot of organizational depth.
If he's willing to start at Vegas...
…I would guess he would be the first guy called up. Solid depth signing.
AA seems to be loading up on guys that can play CF, which makes sense to me.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
I agree with Patterson
Was a decent prospect with the Cubs a decade back. Never amounted to much, but he will do well in Vegas and will be a decent injury call up. I hope he doesn’t make the team as a bench guy, but looking at the roster right now, he could.
I guess some depth, but he really doesn't get on base well and that was a problem last
year for the team, I’d rather just roll with Mastro rather than Patterson
Patterson’s got experience and had a decent enough year last year. I’d rather bring him up as injury insurance than rush Mastronni if he’s not ready to make the leap.
experience =/= skill
he is bad. If the Jays have to play Patterson for a significant period of time this year, there will be little joy in Mudville.
Any team that has to play a non-prospect 5th OF for a significant period of time during the season is going to be bad. The difference is that Patterson is a known quantity with zero investment. If Mastronni isn’t ready, rushing him hurts the organization in the long term. If he is, Patterson certainly isn’t going to block him in the eyes of the organization.
Not one is saying that Patterson is good. He’s not bad as a fourth OF on your depth chart and surprisingly good as a fifth. He has some useful skills and some experience. If he gets regular playing time, we’ll have a lot more to worry about by that point.
Patterson
Another great thing about him is he manages (somehow) – to stay off the DL.
Solid bench player – and can still steal bases.
by Paul Chicago on Dec 21, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Best of the worst, so to speak. I think at most, barring injury, he’ll get some bench time with Davis as a pinch runner and defensive replacement. If there’s an injury or we go into 2011 with Bautista at 3B and Davis in the corner, he’ll be the regular bench OF.
You get a minor league contract! and you get a minor leage contract!
Everyone look under their chairs, minor league contracts for everyone!!!!!111
Ball.
by Casusby on Dec 21, 2010 12:10 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Bahaha Rec
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Yes, all AAA fodder. The Jays thoughts on their minor league system is clear. Vegas is where the Jays stash their veteran replacement players for injury fill-ins and New Hampshire is where the prospects go until they are ready for the big leagues.
The only way a prospect ends up in Vegas is for a specific purpose such as batting against pitchers who throw more junk or when there is no room on the New Hampshire roster.
Abreu
Seems like a solid guy to try. Has been great in the minors, just hasn’t translated. Given the wide open nature of the Jays pen, a guy who has an ability to strike guys out could certainly find a role if he can ever figure out how to pitch in the majors.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
...is this it AA?
…so you sign R. Davis, trade Marcum for a propect and then sign washouts to the minors?
Please tell me there is more.
Otherwise, with the current lineup we should expect a very similar 2011 season if not worse. For me that’s simply not OK. As a fan I want my team to compete and win, and this off-season the vibes AA is giving the rest of the league is that the Jays under his reign and budget will be cheap and try to scrap their way into a decent team.
The fact Greinke didn’t want to play in TO gives you an idea of how different the times are when compared to when Pat Gillick was in town: every baseball player wanted to play for TO then because every player wants to be part of a winner.
MAKE A MOVE! Sign Beltre, Soriano, or Manny….give us something!
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 12:58 PM EST reply actions
Every team signs players to fill out minor league rosters....
And whether is it a ‘fact’ that Greinke didn’t want to play here is still open to debate. Just because a writer says so, doesn’t make it so. I doubt we got to the point in negotiations where it was a posiblity I wouldn’t have wanted him for what we would have given up.
Alex doesn’t have to sign someone just to make us happy, he only has to sign someone that makes sense for the team.
Who would you add to his roster?
The objective of a GM is to make the team better with the given budget. The reason why I believe he has to make at least one big move is that there are obvious holes in the Jays lineup. Even you can’t deny that. What player move would you do if you were the Jays GM?
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
If the plan is for 2012 or 2013 why does he have to make one big move? Doesn't make
sense to me, they could easily field the team as is, EE 1b/dh, Lind 1b, Bautista 3b, and Davis RF. Will they win the division, of course not, but they are not one move away from winning the division either, patience is the message.
...has AA ever stated that 2012 will be the year the Jays compete?
I heard that from JP, not AA.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
no, that's why I said 2012/2013, but I'm basing this on his recent moves like trading
marcum for a prospect, and saying they’ll spend when the time is right, I think his moves this off season clearly indicate that now is not the time to go for it, in fact AA has eluded to the fact that there may be some regression record wise, so the consclusion is they are building for the future.
Regardless of the year we "compete"
Toronto should not cheap out on the fans. If we can put a solid team for a couple years in a row, we can build a solid fanbase for the year we compete.
I still say we sign Beltre for 5 years / $75M. It will bring more excitement to the team, and will shore up a replacement level hole, with a guy who had a 7+ WAR last year.
I agree that we are not expecting the playoffs next year, but fans will not buy into the “This is our year” when we decide that we’re ready. If we can stay within the 85-win area, we can show that we can at least play consistent 500+ baseball, against the best of the best.
Proud member of the AL North
I agree 100%
You need to get the fans exited about something.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
you don't make signings just "to get the fans excited"
that’s what bad teams do — look for stopgap solutions and washup, big name free agents so management can say “look, we are doing something.” Good teams have plans, they figure out how to create a winning team and bring in players to fit their philosophy. The Jays right now are stocking up for the future while also maintaining a team that can win games and even compete for the playoffs if things break right. Plus, the offseason isn’t done and you can bet AA isn’t rested on his laurels yet.
by SuckaMD on Dec 21, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
I was thinking of the early 00's Orioles more
but the Royals are a good example too
The Mets...Cubs...you get the idea.
I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.
by leafsfan4life94 on Dec 21, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well said
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Shane is that you?
You sound exactly like my buddy from work. He is really pissed off about this offseason and not signing anyone.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I still say we sign Beltre for 5 years / $75M.
You are aware that Beltre has a history of increased productivity in a contract year and then disappointing dramatically after the contract has been signed?
Go see for yourself: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B
I would never give Beltre anything other than a one year contract.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
to me that is falling into the JP trap, to me it's obvious that AA values draft
picks, so surrendering a first rounder for Beltre doesn’t seem to fit his plan.
All that does is lock the jays into a 5 year deal for a guy who seems to only put up huge years in contract years and costing a first rounder in what is considered the deepest draft in years, doesn’t fit in anyway with the current front offices plans, IMO
Also when has signing a player brought more players to the skydome? Halladay didn’t do that and you think Beltre will? With all the excitement around the team last year attendance still sucked, only winning will change that, and I don’t think this team is Beltre away from making the playoffs.
by ClintB on Dec 21, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
that should say, "when has signing a player brought more FANS to the
rogers center" sorry about the typo
the team may not be Beltre from the playoffs
but Beltre and Manny would put them damn close
One signing, will not make AA, JP.
I still stand by everything AA has done. I just like a little bit of balance within the approach.
Proud member of the AL North
Well I respect your opinion but I must say I disagree, I can't see
how giving up a first rounder in one of the deepest draft years while committing 70 to 90 million in payroll for a player I don’t think will get the jays near sniffing distance of the playoffs is going to help the team.
AA has stated he’s not going to build the team through free agents but through the draft and the international market, I think Beltre would be very counter productive to this plan.
I like committing fully to a plan, no comprimising to appease fans who won’t come to the Rogres centre anyway unless the team is winning regardless of who is playing 3rd base.
I do see your point
Either way, I’m happy with the team. I believe in what AA has done, and I’m sure we’ll find out who that “Mystery Player”, that will somehow make the team feel complete, is.
And its been way too long since I’ve had a good Jays debate. BBB ftw.
Proud member of the AL North
I agree, great debate, no insults just stating opinions, I
enjoyed, thanks
You Smell!
Err… wait..
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I don't know if I agree that Beltre is only good in contract years
even in crazy hitter-unfriendly Seattle he was a 3-4 WAR player which is very valuable. I don’t think he’s likely to put up 7 or 10 WAR seasons on his next deal, but he’d likely easily be worth 15M a year. I don’t think the Jays should sign him because of Lawrie and that we have other holes to be filled, but he’s still a very good 3B besides contract years, when he’s been fantastic
His history suggests that you might get value from a 15M\year contract (1WAR=4.5million so a 4 WAR season gives value for money), but it’s not a sure thing. He’s had 3 and 4 WAR seasons as well as a couple of 2.5 WAR seasons.
If you give him the big contract, you’re in danger of having fan expectations be far above what he’s actually producing. Also, he’s now on the wrong side of 30 so you have to expect a decline in production as the contract goes along.
To me, he’s far too much risk for a developing team. He makes sense on a veteran team looking to fill in one hole, but I don’t think he fits the Jays.
I agree, Beltre Is risky
And maybe the 5th year on his contract would be ill-timed. But unless we officially move Lawrie to 3B, he would not be blocking anybody, and he would provide a solid veteran presence for a few years while we develop.
Also, I want to keep him in the division and see how the BoSox like facing him 18 times a year.
Proud member of the AL North
the other problem I don't think you're factoring in is would
Beltre even come to Toronto right now? He wants nothing to do with the A’s 5 year offer, he’s stated he wants a chance to win, Toronto in the AL East is not there yet. Also it’s been reported he just turned down the Angels 5 year 70 million dollar offer, the jays would have to offer a Jayson Werth type deal for him to even consider it I think
Nobody wants to come to TO right now
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Manny has said he does
I think he counts as somebody
not if we're talking premium free agents manny
is well past that, he’s 38 and in decline and looking for a job not even a multi year deal and he’s not exactly great for the clubhouse
Manny
has not put up an OBP less than .388 since 1997 and has been >.400 the past 3 seasons. He isn’t going to hit 35-40HR anymore, but he can still hit 20-25. I don’t know how you define “premium,” but it doesn’t really matter if he fits your defintion or not. He’s just what the Jays need (good hitting DH), he has said he wants to play in TO, and should come fairly cheap for a player of his calibre (~4WAR at DH is likely).
I define premium as players not entering
age 39, AA said on the fan regardless of how are definitions differ that they are not looking into Manny
when did he say that?
I hadn’t heard AA being that equivocal before
On the fan, with Blair I believe, prior
to signing EE, he said something like we want a DH who can play first some to back up Lind and he said if they exhaust all their options they may come back and look at manny but right now he’s not what they are after.
fair enough
though I imagine the E5 signing changes things slightly, since that gives us a good backup 1B option. It also could be obfuscation from AA for various reasons (including trying to drive down Manny’s asking price).
maybe it was the most defenitive no
I’ve ever heard from AA though, also Wilner came on later on the same show and said the reason Manny has been in TO so much is because he has a girlfriend here
I'm not following the EE comment,
it’s exactly what AA said he wanted for a DH as they’ve signed EE for 1st and DH, I don’t get how that changes things?
well, I hope E5 is not going to be our full-time DH
I don’t think his bat will play well enough at the position (not better than Manny certainly). But, if we actually end up playing him between 3B and 1B, that’s a good backup option for Lind since we can slide Bautista over to 3B in a pinch if E5 is needed more at 1B.
Before E5 was signed, we had no backup option for Lind. With E5, we have that option but can still open up a spot for Manny to DH full time.
except AA said he was signed for DH
and to back up lind at 1st, which is what he stated he was looking for in a DH, whether he’ll be productive or not is antother question, but AA said EE was not signed for third and is listed as 1b/DH
Another AA Mindgame
I still think this move was used to drive down Manny’s (IF AA isinterested) price, and to (Again IF AA isinterested), show that 3B is open to Beltre.
Since I would need JoBau’s Jedi powers with Downs intimidating face just to sit at a poker table with AA, I’d say I don’t know what he’s interested, and what anything means until Spring Training starts.
Proud member of the AL North
except AA said he will say nothing rather
than lie, and he’s actually said they’re not looking at manny right now
AA was lying when he said that
True story…
Proud member of the AL North
precisely..
There are teams with similar payrolls than TO that are far more attractive to the players right now because after a promising season with home brewed talent, like the Brewers, they go out and add a few FM players that propels them to even be in the “contender” conversation for 2011. Not so with the Jays.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Same reaction here...
wsan’t aware they had much to show for all their home-grown talent…
I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.
by leafsfan4life94 on Dec 21, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Except...
The Brewers path to the postseason is so much easier than the Jays it really doesn’t help to compare the 2 teams at this point.
And if the Jays were just a “Beltre” away from a postseason berth, I have a feeling the team would be investigating it. The fact that Beltre doesn’t even think that the Jays are that close kinda hurts your argument, I think.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
If AA had already signed Manny would it be a different story?
Greinke recognized NL central is the easiest path as well.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
If AA had already signed Manny would it be a different story?
If you are suggesting the Jays could compete for the postseason had they kept Marcum and signed Manny and Beltre, I’d say there would be a chance. But they would a) have to convince Manny and Beltre of that, and b) would probably still be the 3rd best team in the division, and c) have a lot of money tied up in another player who is likely to decline, and d) not had Lawrie.
I prefer AA’s approach.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
I was only referring to the idea that players don’t seem to want to come to TO because we have been rebuilding for how long? Prospects are prospects, you make Lawrie sound like an all-star; he hasn’t done squat.
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
not in the MLB
But, as a 20 year old in AA with decent numbers and on Team Canada as an 18 year old…that is impressive.
I'm sorry, but:
you make Lawrie sound like an all-star
No I didn’t.
I said:
d) not had Lawrie.
Try not to attribute things to people that they didn’t actually say.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Lawrie's potential = All-Star
I’ll say it.
Proud member of the AL North
I didn't QUOTE you Jevant...chill- I want the Jays to win
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
So do I
Simply pointing out that you attributed something to me that I didn’t say. It doesn’t help your argument.
I wish that the Jays were a Beltre away from competing, trust me. And if I felt they were, I’d be on your side as well. I personally just feel that with the way the AL East is currently constructed, it’s going to take more than one good year of development before we can truly be in “go for it” mode.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
As I said before
the Jays probably aren’t a just Beltre away from the playoffs, but he does get them very close (I think closer than you imagine). Beltre plus one other acquisition could actually put the Jays in a “win-now” position while not really depleting any of the future pieces that AA has gone to great lengths to acquire.
I don’t think we were “rebuilding” for any length of time. When JP was here it felt like spinning our wheels, and you can be sure when we signed Ryan, Glaus, Burnett and traded for Overbay it was not with a look towards rebuilding. It was try to punch our way in now.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Rebuilding
You either buy into Beeston/AA plan – or you don’t – it’s that easy. The BIG change for the Jays was at the CEO level. Godfrey wanted a parade – Beeston/AA know how to build a system that will deliver talent (and attract talent too). Who won the world series? The big spenders – or the team with the best, home-grown pitching staff in the majors?
AA and Beeston are in this for the long run.
by Paul Chicago on Dec 21, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Greinke didn't decide where he would go
the Royals traded him. He had a limited no-trade clause that allowed him to block trades to 15/30 MLB teams. We don’t know if the Jays were on that list or not, but he didn’t recognize anything, he was traded by the club
I heard Jays
Were on restricted list. I also heard Grienke was willing to open up his restricted teams. So we don’t know if the Jays trade was even on the table and presented to Grienke.
not according to Jeff Blair and Ken Rosenthal
check out these links: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/jeff-blair/orlando-looks-for-some-magic-in-arenas/article1844105/
Quote from Blair: "Anthopoulos, the Toronto Blue Jays GM, asked the Kansas City Royals about Greinke’s availability early in the off-season, but was told the pitcher would not waive his no-trade clause to Toronto. End of story.
“And from Rosenthal: The Blue Jays never had a shot at Greinke; they, too, were on his no-trade list, and the pitcher was not interested in playing for Toronto.”
Link: http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2010/12/21/scooped-griffin-wrong-about-everything/
Why is this coming out now?
I would have been able to breathe a lot easier had I known this Before the Snider+Drabek rumours starting floating around.
I still won’t believe anything until I hear it straight from AA.
And Brett Lawrie is definitely a big deal (Hope he doesn’t read that. His head is too big as it is). Acquiring a talent like his has definitely upgraded the Blue Jays. An aside: Fangraphs mentioned that our trade was the only one close to the “seller” winning.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-two-markets/
Proud member of the AL North
Safeco Field
His worst years also, coincidentally, coincide with his years in Seattle. A bad hitters park, and he had even less of a supporting cast.
I agree that last year was a contract year, but he has still put up 17 WAR in those 5 seasons. If those were his regression years, there still pretty damned good if you ask me.
And I didn’t mean, sign him just to sign him. I say he allows us a better way to compete. 3B is at replacement level right now, and he would be protected by a good lineup of hitters. I like the his alignment with the Blue Jays right now, not just for the “Fans Factor”
Proud member of the AL North
3B is not at replacement level at all
right now, we will be playing either Bautista, E5 or some combo of the two. E5 in a full season should put up 3WAR or so (maybe more if his defense is actually improved, maybe a touch less if not and his BABIP doesn’t regress as it should). Bautista, obviously, is well above replacement in the OF, and 3B is a much shallower position.
Beltre would be a good signing with the right contract parameters, but let’s not kid ourselves and say that 3B is a black hole right now.
Those moves weaken other positions
If Bautista is 3B, than that puts Davis (Not sure about his projected value), at RF. E5 going to 3B is to bank on a FA signing for 1B/DH.
Proud member of the AL North
3B might not be a "black hole", but...
..it is a large hole nonetheless. In every defensive category, Beltre would be a major improvement in 3B over E5, and nothing official has ever been uttered about Bautista actually playing 3B next year, so that’s just speculation. The Jays however, had stated that E5 will be platooned at 1B/DH, so you can scrap the idea of E5 playing at 3B. So where does that leave you??
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 21, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
yes, Beltre is a better player than E5
but that doesn’t mean that we have no good options at 3B. Bautista is a good option, as is Encarnacion. Regardless of what the Jays say now, he still has experience and can be at least a decent starting 3B in the AL. That’s not a large hole.
The WAR values are park adjusted, so it shouldn’t matter (that much) that his ‘poor’ WAR years came at Safeco.
fWAR definitely is park adjusted
So, when you’re looking at the Win Values section, that’s Batting – offensive runs above or below average, not position adjusted, but adjusted for the run environment of his home park
.
From the FanGraphs WAR primer. The example they use is actually Beltre, oddly enough.
even with all the prospect-related moves AA has made this season
competing is not out of the question this year. We need to get at least one big bat and maybe a bullpen arm or two, but this team is not in rebuilding mode like the Indians or Royals. The Jays were a top 5 team in the MLB next year and with another signing (e.g. Manny) could be even better than last year. The Sox are the clear favourite to win the East, but the Jays really aren’t that far behind.
I think the totality of the moves this year positions the Jays well for the future, but it’s not like we’ve seen a Marlins-like fire sale. The core of the team is all back, save Marcum, and there is still significant room for improvement both via player acquisition (FA or trade) and from incumbent players (development from Snider and Drabek, bouncebacks from Lind and Hill).
why are you assuming that this is it?
or even questioning whether that is the case? It’s only December, pitchers and catchers don’t report for another 2 months.
I agree there are holes in the roster as it stands now, and I’m sure that AA is aware of this, too. I see the biggest need as a DH, and I remain wedded to my hope that a Manny signing is in the not-too-distant future. I personally hope that we sign a DH and a 3B/OF, but in the absence of the latter we still have multiple lineup constructions we can play with (I may create a fanpost soon outlining them) that should offer at least the same, and probably better, production than 2011.
There are plenty of names on the FA market who haven’t been signed yet (the 3 you mentioned, Pavano, etc) and you can bet that the Greinke deal won’t be the last big trade we see in the MLB before spring training. AA isn’t done.
Tom is correct that every team makes these signings, organizational depth is important and the Jays are responsible for filling the rosters of their affiliates. Just because these are announced today doesn’t mean that other, more MLB-relevant deals aren’t in the offing.
I agree, but
we are fine in the OF. Wells, JBau, Snider with Davis on the bench and Patterson in Vegas and Mastro as another possible call-up.
We need 1 1B or 3B or DH and set.
SP would be nice, but others have convinced me that we may be fine with our current crop of 5th SP’s
we are fine in the OF with that alignment
but the fact that Bautista could, if needed, be switched to 3B means the Jays have more options. The 3B market is extremely thin outside of Beltre (who is an excellent player but I’m not convinced he’d be worth the $$$ or years). If a better OF could be acquired via FA or trade, I would much rather the Jays do that and shift Bautista to 3B than just shoehorn a bad 3B into the position. I am also on record as being in support of just starting E5 there or using some kind of platoon lineup system (which I may outline in an upcoming fanpost).
Look forward to reading the fanpost
I think I agree with your E5 idea. I would rather Bautista play RF and when necessary play 3B, but no more than 50 games or so.
You are right, go for the best available player in OF/3B/DH/1B. We have guys that can play several positions.
I guess I should clarify, I hope we are able to trade for a serviceable 3B to split with EE and JBau. Not sure who that is. Your thoughts on Gordon? I thought he would break out 2 years ago.
International free agents
I like the path we are on. I am hoping for a bunch of international free agent signings. The Jay’s should have a lot of extra money for international free agents and over slot draft picks.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 21, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Undervalued Market
I agree with you here. And a part of me has a feeling that in 5 years, international signings will become a very expensive route to build a team.
Proud member of the AL North
Leonys Martin
Leonys Martin could me an answer for this year and the future. H
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 21, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
He looks promising
I love Speedy, LH hitters who can take a walk and drag a bunt.
Would he block Gose?
Proud member of the AL North
I don’t think you can block center fielders who hit well. You just put them in right or left. Having too many young center fielders is a great problem to have.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 21, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Huge question mark
Is he really 22?
How ready is he for the majors?
Who are we bidding against?
What will it cost?
More Posts like This Please
I like what this link is saying.
Make this signing happen please!
Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 21, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Soriano
I hope they don’t go after him. He’s going to demand way too much money for what he’ll bring to the table. FanGraphs did a comparison post recently about him and Peralta (non-tendered pitcher from the Nationals – recently signed with the Rays). There wasn’t much of a difference – certainly not enough to justify what Soriano is going to cost.
Whoever
We could use one more bullpen arm. But a “closer” is overrated. I am not concerned. But would like to see one more RP.
by Rhinos on Dec 21, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Does it really matter?
But if it does, my guess is one of Frasor, Villaneuva, Purcey, Camp, etc.
Or any member of the bullpen.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Abreu is intriguing
insane K rates in the minors, but hasn’t put it together yet in the bigs. I’m excited to see him in spring training.
Who cares?
Overrated position. Stick Frasor or Purcey in there, it doesn’t matter. Your best reliever should be pitching when they’re most needed anyway, not necessarily just in the 9th inning.
by masterkembo on Dec 21, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Stay tuned at the hot corner
I think there will be a trade for a 3B, or a signing at the hot corner. Bautista will stay in right and Davis will be the 4th outfielder/ first man off the bench. Patterson was signed in case of injuries to any of our 4 other outfielders. My guess is we’ll trade for Gordon as Moustakas is about to take his job. Moore, Melvin and AA seem to be on the same wavelength this winter. Plan B could be to sign a stopgap like Alberto Callaspo and hope he pulls an Alex Gonzalez on us. I think AA will be looking for another starting pitcher too, one that will stabilise the rotation until Drabek has staked his claim and one of Mills/Scrabble/Litsch/McGowan has proven himself capable. Then he’ll either trade him at the deadline or wait for the draft picks. But he may not find the right guy.
2011 will be all about seeing who can play
I’d rather we have a look at who we have in our system than bring in projects or stopgaps from other teams.
Which is why I think that Lawrie will be given a very good look at spring training to see if he can play 3rd and hit major league pitching. E^3 is the backup plan if Lawrie can’t.
Drabek has the 4th spot to lose, and one of Stewart, Scrabble, and Litsch will get the 5th spot.
If we see McGowan, it will be as a reliever.
why Gordon?
he isn’t good. If we aren’t going to bring in an established 3B or shift Bautista over, at least use E5 there. He’s just plain better than Gordon
Or you against Gordon as a bench player
He has the raw skills, but I think he has been yanked around in KC. Depending on the price, I am still interested in him.
I don't think it's worth parting with prospects
to acquire a bench player who isn’t really very good. We have plenty of guys like that already, and they are easy to find/acquire without giving up anything except a bit of money. Gordon isn’t a particularly good defensive replacement except maybe at 3B (at we are set there with JoBau and E5 to start and JMac as defensive replacement if needed) and hasn’t really shown a good bat. His relative defensive versatility (can play 1B, 3B and corner OF with moderate proficiency) might make him a valuable bench asset in the NL, but in the AL I think I’d pass.
Gordon might fit on some teams (NL bench guy, team looking for a cheap, change of scenery improvement). I don’t think the Jays are that team. The 2010 Jays were a top team, we were just cometing against 3 other top teams too and came out on the short end of the stick. 2010 provides a great base for moving forward and the team could very well be better in 2011 with some not-unlikely occurences (another decent signing or two, improvement from Snider, Lind, Hill, etc).
AA is also working hard to ensure that the team isn’t a one-shot wonder, and has acquired legit prospects (Lawrie) and stockpiled good draft picks to meet that goal. We are not in a position to take fliers on guys like Gordon – we are too good now ot need to do that, and the cupboard is well enough stocked that he isn’t needed in the future.
Thanks for responding when
my question didn’t make sense. Checking in on here while working.
Should have stated: Are you against Gordon…
no problem
I make enough typos on this forum myself to generally be able to figure out what people mean.
Basically, my argument boils down to my belief that despite his past big-time prospect status, Gordon isn’t very good. I don’t think he brings anything to the Jays that we don’t already have or can’t acquire in another player for equivalent or cheaper than him.
and fair enough
I just think Gordon could be a guy to take a flier on for cheap. Not sure about asking price, but he was at one point a high draft pick.
I guess for me it would depend on asking price and, I haven’t checked, but if he has options left to play in Vegas as well.
you might be right
I’m just not sure it’s worth the expense. Lots of guys were once high draft picks and don’t turn out to be good or turn out to be fringe-type players who wouldn’t help the Jays at this point of their development. He could very well turn into a decent or even very good player yet at KC or somewhere else, I just don’t think it’s veyr likely and I’m not sure acquiring him to find out is the best thing for the Jays right now.
According to fangraphs, Gordon played in the minors in 2006, 2009, and 2010. If he was on a major league contract in 2006 (and thus on the 40 man roster), he would be out of options. Baseball reference does not list a salary for 2006, which leads me to believe that he was on a minor league deal during that season (and thus has 1 option lefrt), but I cannot be sure of this. Not sure where we can go to find out.
Eric Hinske
Sign him, and we’ll go to the playoffs…
Proud member of the AL North
by Vagabond13 on Dec 21, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Almost 100 comments
Anybody else find it amusing, that we’re so starved for Jays talk/rumours/signings, that we use the “Jays Sign 6 to Minor League Contracts”, to the tune of 100 comments, and yet have only really talked about those 6 contracts, maybe 6 times?
The ironing is delicious.
Proud member of the AL North
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD8ZtM1sWgI
Proud member of the AL North
by Vagabond13 on Dec 21, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It Jumped Up A Notch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBsSttJsZOc
Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 21, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Last Thought On Manny Then I'll Shut Up
If Manny remains unsigned up to the time Pitchers and Catchers start reporting Manny will panic and AA gets him dirt cheap.
Is this his plan possible? Is it likely?
Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 21, 2010 3:02 PM EST reply actions
I don't know
but I hope so. Actually, I hope he is signed when P’s and C’s report — by the Jays
I don't think panic is the right word
But yes, Manny might sign a one year contract for a reasonable price if it looks like he has no other options, which is a distinct possibility.
His agent already said he's looking for a one year deal to re-establish himself similar to
Beltre, AA has said on the fan before signing EE that they weren’t really looking at manny that they were more focussed on a DH that could back up Lind at first.
Boras has also clarified that seeking a 1 year to re-establish himself doesn’t mean come cheap.
Boras always spins it his way (Like any agent is supposed to), if a player like Manny has a down year he plays up the proven history card. If he has a breakout he plays out the emerging star.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
True, I was just clarifying.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Hey now…
/sniff
Nevermind
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Exactly
Boras wants to maximize the money and AA wants to minimize it. The two of them are going to do this dance the entire off-season. AA is saying and acting like we don’t need Manny (and in truth we don’t) to drive the price down. Manny’s position is hampered by the fact that the big players in MLB don’t need a DH, and that’s pretty much the only position he can play these days.
I guess we dont *need* Manny
but IMO (and I think there is good evidence to back this up), he is the best available value for the Jays on the FA market. We don’t really need a guy who can play the field (see my recent fanpost, plus we got E5 who should be good as well at 1B), but we do need a DH. Manny should stay healthy at DH and stay focused playing for a manager he likes. Doing so, he should put up ~4WAR and not cost very much money this season. To me, that’s a great signing and fits a need perfectly with a fairly small amount of risk.
I have a theory on Manny..
I’m most likely wrong but I find it suspicious that his name hasn’t come up once in relation to any team…I wonder if there isn’t an unwritten rule in baseball now, if you’re tainted, you don’t get a contract a la Barry Bonds. Also what would be his suspension if he tests positive again..150 games isn’t it? Kind of a risk to count on that guy as your DH.
I do believe you forfeit salary as well if you are suspended. So the risk is mitigated somewhat.
Plus there is always an injury risk as well. Hard to plan for all of that.
Never Explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyway - Elbert Hubbard
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
i would think attitude and the ability to be aloof also has something to do with it. He turned the Dodgers into his own personal gong show.
if he puts up a .420OBA
he can have all the gong shows he wants, as far as I’m concerned
He also carried the Dodgers to a playoff appearance.
I always wonder why that counts for less than some imagined personality problem.
Thomas
Had a great season his first year here. If the Jays signed Manny and we got the production Thomas had that year, I’d be happy.
.277/.377/.480
I can't believe 6 depth moves...
can result in a thread as long as if the Jays actually did something significant. These are depth moves, every team does it, especially for non-impact players to fill out their ST rosters, bench and AAA rosters.
As for teams signing players just to generate interest, giving their fanbase hope, and then having these moves blow up in their faces, look no further than your Toronto Maple Leafs.
And Greinke would have been a terrible move. Look at the winning formula the 90s Jays followed (and copied by the late 90s, early 2000s Yankees)- build until you have a core group of stars, then sign FAs to complement them. Trading Drabek and Snider, 2 could be core players for Greinke when you don’t have the core built yet would have been a terrible move.
It is great fun....I go away for a couple of hours...
and a nothing post gets a ton of comments. And it is a very interesting read. I love this place.
by Tom Dakers on Dec 21, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hate it when that happens
Going through 150 posts of conversation without being there, is the worst.
Proud member of the AL North
The Final Piece of the puzzle!!!!!!!
OMG Cory Paterson will win us the World Series!
Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 21, 2010 7:11 PM EST reply actions
Finally! A LH bat! Thank you Corey Patterson. I was getting worried that they were going to have to go get the Babe out of cryogenics.
BTW – is Fred Lewis still officially with the ballclub?
Lewis was non-tendered
he is now a free agent. Same thing happened with E5 when the A’s didn’t tender him an offer and we signed him as an FA
Man, what a huge conversation about everything but these six minor-league signings!
Here are my thoughts on these guys:
OF COREY PATTERSON: Half-decent numbers last year with Baltimore. Does he have a chance to make the roster? If Bautista is our 3B, then he’s probably our fourth outfielder. But if Bautista is the RF, then do we need a fifth outfielder? If not, then presumably Patterson’s our first injury standby in Vegas.
C RYAN BUDDE: He’s been stuck at AAA Salt Lake since 2004 – seven years! So I guess he’s our new Raul Chavez and mentor to Brian Jeroloman. I’d think he should be the backup catcher in Vegas, but paradoxically maybe first to be called up if say there’s an injury to Molina, as Budde’s got more experience? This is assuming another catcher doesn’t enter the picture.
RHP WINSTON ABREU, LHP SEAN HENN, LHP MIKE HINCKLEY and RHP BRIAN STOKES: Don’t have much to say about these guys individually. They all seem like AAA arms that could be in the mix to make the Jays if any impress in Spring Training, otherwise they’re possible injury fill-ins for the bullpen during the season if they look good in Vegas, though we have other quality arms already.
Patterson is at the very least better than the Joey Gathright tryout from last year. At least AA understands the need for a speedy leadoff hitter and its better to have options than to have to scramble around and find Fred Lewis after the season starts.
Leadoff hitter no,
But I love having a solid guy in the minors that can steal bases, hit for ok power and can play decent D. Patterson is a great 5th OF, injury replacement and 9 hole hitter. Lots of experience and athleticism. Not someone you want to rely on, but a decent guy to have for an emergency.
Without knowing much about the others
I think Patterson.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bluebird Banter
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Citi Field All-Star game has finally been made official for 2013
- Brett Lawrie receives four-game suspension, fined for ‘aggressive actions’ toward umpire
- PNC Park security guard loses finger in struggle with fan during Pirates game
- Create-a-Caption: Partying like it’s 1988
- The Ron Washington puppet is watching you while you sleep — and has possibly jinxed the Rangers
