Todays Rumors
Since the official announcement of the Marcum trade has finally been made yet, I though we might look at the other rumors floating today.
- As noted earlier the Jays are deep into or hard on or well, choose your own poorly worded double entendre for interested in Carlos Pena. I'll admit I'm not all that excited about that, unless we can get him cheap.
- Alex is also kicking the tires on Matt Diaz. Diaz has hit LHP pretty well in his career. He could make a good platoon partner for Adam Lind.
- We are also considering Russell Martin. I'd be as happy to stay with what we have.
None Jay news and rumors:
- The Orioles traded for Mark Reynolds. Glad it is them and not us.
- The Diamondbacks signed JJ Putz.
- The Dodgers and the Pirates are interested in Jeremy Accardo.
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Also from the oracles of the offseason (MLBTR)
The Royals appear to be tiring of the Rangers’ offers, according to Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star. Discussions with Toronto appear to hinge on the Blue Jays’ willingness to include Kyle Drabek and Travis Snider in a potential deal. Royals officials say a deal could come together in a hurry if the Blue Jays decide they’re willing to part with those two players.
They say that as if it’s a totally legit thing to give up your franchises best young position player AND your best pitching prospect.
If they do this I will tune out next year
No way am I going to accept losing both Snider and Drabek for Greinke. Please AA please don’t do something this stupid.
None of these rumours make me happy
Good thing AA never does what the rumours say he will.
Onions Baby Onions
by ohmybosh on Dec 6, 2010 10:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I say we do it.
If the Royals throw Soria in the deal.
Why is everyone wanting Alex Gordon?
by ddbumpus on Dec 6, 2010 11:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Last I checked, we didn’t have a 3B.
And he’s a good buy-low reclamation project.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
he's a bad buy-low reclamation project
he’s definitely a reclamation project, and we could probably (though not certainly) buy low, but he hasn’t shown that he is or can be a good player at the major league level. I’d pass.
I don’t believe there is such thing as a bad buy-low reclamation project.
If it costs you a C prospect or two to find out if you can fix what is wrong with him and figure out how to get him to translate his ridiculous AAA numbers into MLB numbers, I don’t know why you don’t try that.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Russell Martin
Ordinarily I’d be happy about the Jays going after another Canadian player. But I don’t see how bringing in another catcher does anything but hurt Arencibia. We should just commit to him being our primary catcher and let him develop. And as far as a backup goes to me Molina is the best fit in terms of both mentoring Arencibia and the young pitchers, which he apparently did quite well behind the scenes this season. I’m okay with Raul Chavez and Brian Jeroloman being our emergency backups at AAA. Or if Chavez isn’t coming back (are we sure he’s back), then sign another old veteran for that gig.
Martin
…pounds LHP, and can play a bit of 3B too.
At the end of the day, if you can get him on a reasonable deal, I think you at least consider pairing him up with Arencibia and seeing what they can do, and see if you can help Martin work back to where he was a few years back.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
But then we cut Molina loose? If Arencibia is going to be our main guy, which I think he should be, then to me the decision on who we pair him with should be more about who’s going to be a better mentor for him and the still young pitchers, than offensive contribution. It just seems to me that Molina, where he’s at in his career and from what I’ve heard from his contribution this season, fills that role better. And I think it’s a role he’s keen to do.
Red Sox and Yankees both need a catcher.
And John Bucks deal set the bar, he’s gonna get paid.
Anything to hinder the red sox and yankees.
That’d be reason enough to get him :-). Enjoy Posada and Varitek!!!! Haha.
Its kind of odd that AA would promptly trade Marcum and them pursue Carlos Pena, a definite head scratcher for me. I guess all we know for now is that he traded Marcum for Lawrie and just leave it at that.
Jj putz
I’m kind of dissappointed we didn’t go after him. The d backs signed him for 2 years/10 mil. I think we could have done that, as he’s been successful in that role before. Hopefully we have something in mind for closer!!
by ddbumpus on Dec 6, 2010 10:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You Cant Have It Both Ways
I was a BJ fanatic until the 1994 strike and after that pretty much gave up on baseball. When I loved baseball what most connected me to the game was eyeing the prospects and watching them climb the ladder. In the old days, Moseby, Barfield, Fernandez etc. By watching them grow and affilating with them, it made me feel more interconnected to the Jays even if in real life some of these guys were primadonnas and aholes. In the last couple years due to this site and others like Batter Box and Baseball America I have started to come around again to the Jays as I watched the growth and development of the first wave, especially McGowan but also Marcum & Lind. But Snider has had a real interest for me, he justs looks like he was born to be a star and lately Arenchibia, Drabek, Stewart etc. I can deal with trading young players like Gillick did when they can put you over the top to win a World Series, but if we trade Drabek and Snider for Greinke, and bring in an Olivo or Martin without giving JP a real shot, I will be gone again. You cant ask me to live with a shit team for years and to wait for player development and then take those players from me. I really hope AA keeps Snider and gives JP a real shot this year, even if they both turn out to be duds, I want to see then through.
by willie stargell on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You took the words right out of my mouth, I’m in complete agreement. I wasn’t around the last time the Jays were the dominant force but I hope I’ll be able to see our homegrown and young talent get us to the glory years again
Exactly
This is exactly what’s been on my mind and bothering me of late as I hear rumours of trading guys like Drabek and Snider. I’m okay with rebuilding with quality young players, so I don’t mind if we don’t make the playoffs again next year. I’m happy to get excited about the young guys and watching them develop. But if you hype up young guys, then keep trading them just as they’re about to make an impact, then where’s the fun of watching a revolving door that’s just a tease?
That was the case with Brett Wallace, where we were basically led to think he was our 1B of the future and just as he’s ready to come up, we trade for someone else who’s back further down the minor-league ladder. I accepted that as Wallace had only been around nine months and there were questions around him. But I’ll be pretty pissed off we play this same game with Kyle Drabek and ship him off – he’s the real deal and I want to see him develop here, not somewhere else. And this even more so for Snider who’s one of our own draft picks and the pride of our system for so many years – it’s about time we see him get a regular position and play everyday.
I like Alex Anthopoulos and am glad he’s our GM, but my concern with him is that I’m starting to think he’s a bit like a kid with attention deficit who quickly loses focus on his toys when he sees someone else’s. Okay, this isn’t fair, as we need to be upgrading. But there’s also a danger that he’s so focused on picking up assets and turning them over for others, that he forgets that each player is a story that fans are following and every time you ditch one that’s a bit of a hit to the gut for people who followed the guy dealt.
If the Jays want fans to buy into their rebuilding and youth movement, then you can’t keep talking up young players as the future bedrock of the team then suddenly flipping them. Drabek was the centrepiece of the Halladay deal and we were told our future – so let him be that for us. Snider has been the pride and joy of our organization for years – so let us see what he can do now. Not sure Arencibia is at the same level, but we’ve been hearing about him for so long, now let him be our catcher this year.
Okay, some prospects will be traded, it’s inevitable, but Anthopoulos has to understand to that you can’t pull the rug out from under fans too often before people get pissed off and say wake me in a couple of years once you’ve settled down and figured out which players you actually do like.
I wouldn't have minded Mark Reynolds if we didn't have to give up a ton (which the Orioles didn't)
he will put up basically the same OPS as E5 and comes cheaper. Of course, I’d be happy to bring E5 back on a short term deal for less than his arbitration award would have been, maybe something like 8-10M/2years.
Hitting .198 in the AL central
probably doesnt mean you’re going to be so hot in the AL East.
Onions Baby Onions
He hit .196 but still had an OBP .004 different than Lyle Overbay. He will likely give us a .360 OBP which is great, as well as 30-40 homers. I think we could turn his batting average around as well.
I wouldn’t be opposed to getting Pena, but it’d have to be a 2-3 year deal max and with the assumption we see the flaw in his swing we could fix.
If anyone listened to Bob Eliot on the fan590 today
he was saying that he’s hearing from everybody that the Jays believe they are 1 piece away from being able to contend. They think the Rays will regress and the Yankees and Sox have issues.
I hope that is not the case. They are multiple pieces away. If you thnk we’re going to mash 250 some odd dingers again this season you’re crazy. We’re on the right track but we’re not 1 piece away. That is the kind of thinking that got Ricciardi in trouble a few years ago when he threw all his money at high priced FA’s. Stay the course, don’t let a nice surprising year change your plan. I could stand losing Drabek but trading Snider would be a big mistake.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
Greinke.
Do. Not. Want.
That’s also a lot of if’s for us to e successful. Basically it’s saying that three teams need to falter for us to make the playoffs. Yet another reason we are getting high end prospects, so we can contend for years.
by ddbumpus on Dec 7, 2010 12:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
We COULD be real close...
BUT – it would take Snider to blossom, Hill and Lind to rebound, Arencibia to hit 30 dingers and actually catch most balls thrown his way, Wells to have 2010 again and Bautista to just not fall off a cliff. THAT – and signing Beltre – he’s still out there and now the Yanks and Sox are out of the hunt – AND signing a 400 obp guy – like say – um – Manny -- WHEN combined with Morrow, Romero, Cecil, Scrabble and Drabek with Stewart there early if one falters and Jenkins there a bit later if another falters…
AND – we find at least seven of our thirteen remaining bullpen, or near ready starters, to be OK in the pen with one of them – or an addition, being good enough to close (Frasor, Camp, Purcey, Janssen, Mills, Richmond, Roenicke, Carlson, Litsch, Ray, Reyes, Farina and a guy named McGowan).
Stranger things have happened in the land of the midnight sun – just ask Sam McGee.
Bob Elliott
Is not plugged into AA – he has tweeted about a number of deals – and been way off base.
AA and the Jays have been talking 2012/13 all along – and I think that’s a good focus to have.
Our farm system has moved from JP’s college-based low risk (and average upside) strategy to one which mimics the Tampa/Minnesota plan; a mix of high upside kids – with the core we already had.
Too many missing parts (3B/1B/relief core and bench) for one piece to ‘fix it’.
This is probably a year where we regress a little – give the kids a chance to step up – before going for it in ’12/13.
A step backwards
to trade Marcum/Lawrie ,Snider and Drabek to get Greinke is not a practical move. Marcum is a bulldog and a super team mate who is under contract for 2 more years at less than 1 million $$$, and Greinke will be gone in 2 years as a free agent.
As a former Jr hockey GM, I think we should continue with the draft and using our minor league system to achieve a competitive team. We are getting close …..Ps … We do not need Alex Gordon.
the one thing AA has said
is that he is building a team that can compete year in, year out. Exchanging an inexpensive decade of Snider and Drabek for two years of Greinke at $13 million per doesn’t further that goal at all. I don’t think we have to worry.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
100% Agreed
I would be absolutely shocked if we gave up Drabek and/or Snider for Grienke. I don’t think he’s coming here. Doesn’t make sense in light of the Marcum deal.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
That KD/TS for ZG trade would be pointless for Toronto
If Snider can stay injury free, he will hit. And Drabek is the 4/5 starter… I can live with that.
Don’t need Grieke… yet. Maybe if things go well (crosses fingers) in 2011 then the Jays can trade for him during the stretch drive.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 7, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Trading Marcum
Was moving one step backwards to move two steps forward. Lawrie will likely be our 2B/3B of the future, and our rotation could potentially be better with our pitchers we have. It sucks to move Marcum, but it’s with the potential to be better.
Whats everyones opinion on taking a chance on Andrew Miller?
turning 26 next year, 6th draft pick, ceiling to the moon, giant control issues..maybe Papi can catch lightning in a bottle twice.
Wouldn't be opposed.
We obviously saved Morrow. What would his asking price be?
Seem to be quite a few teams interested in him
I have a feeling he will try to sign with a team that doesn’t have a ton of pitching prospects that he’d be behind.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
The knock against Arencibia?
Manager John Farrell to Richard Griffin on Arencibia:
"The one thing that we have to make clear to him is — knowing J.P. as I do, which has been through some conversation, understanding reports, talking to others who have been around him — we have to be sure that in his mind he values leading a pitching staff," Farrell said very carefully.
"We know that he’s going to go through slumps offensively. What we want to be sure of is that foundation for leading a pitching staff and the characteristics that are important to that. Making that pitcher believe in him. Understanding that he does all the work and the preparation to formulate his game plan along with the coaching staff and then carry that out. That remains a constant. Offence can’t take away from the priority that is that pitcher on the mound that given night."
This sounds to me like a backhanded way of saying the Jays feel or are at least worried that Arencibia cares too much about his hitting and not enough about his work handling the pitcher. What’s the basis for this? I thought the word out of Vegas was that the pitchers liked throwing to him. That first paragraph sounds a heck of a lot to me like saying that after speaking to Arencibia, reading reports on him and talking to other players, they have doubts as to whether his head is in the game when it comes to working with a pitcher. This is a very serious question for a manager to make publicly about a catcher.
I see the quote differently
(Not having heard it, true)
I see it as Farrell trying to take the pressure off JP by making sure he controls the things he can control, which is handling the pitching staff and catching the ball. Farrell’s saying he’s not counting on JP for any offensive contributions so JP doesn’t have to worry about playing time if he is struggling with the bat, as long as he is producing defensively.
I think that Cito really messed with JP last year. He didn’t play him often, and when he did, it was usually against the best pitcher of the opposing team. Certainly, JP was not put in a position to succeed, and not surprisingly, JP struggled.
You can hear a bit of the quote at Mike Wilner's page
I see it more your way, it reads more like he is trying to take some pressure off JP’s bat. “Do a good job with the glove and you play”
Good.
We need a catcher to give us defense, and the offense will come. Hopefully JPA takes the advice.
I’m all for having Arencibia just focus on the defense and not worry too much about his hitting. But I still can’t help feeling like there’s more behind that Farrell quote. It sounds like he’s tip-toeing around some issue with Griffin emphasizing that he was speaking “very carefully”. Maybe it’s nothing, but it feeds into an impression I’ve had that the Jays brass have long had reservations about giving the job to Arencibia. I hope they give him a good shot at the gig this year. Let’s see.
Wilner also took away from that conversation that JPA would be the starting C
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
JP
Only heard the comments about JP’s defense when he came up – he handled the staff very well at AAA.
Calling a game with a veteran on the mound (as a rookie) – is a whole lot different from building a strong partnership with someone you came up from the minors with.
Don’t discount the positive effect that Molina will have on him.
I remember a ball in the dirt that JP really got down on and I thought “Neither Buck or Molina would have got down on that. They would have backhanded it.” That’s when I stopped worrying about his defense. I think he’s fundamentally sound (better than Buck or Molina).
JP’s also big and strong enough that he can probably go to the “from the knees” form for throwing out base runners.

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