Bluebird Links - Winter Meetings Day 3 Open Thread
by masterkembo on Dec 8, 2010 10:15 AM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays Links
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PrintIt was a fairly quiet day in Blue Jays land yesterday, which allowed everyone to step back and catch their breath. There are quite a few good articles though, so take a look at those (I am really enjoying the Wilner pieces from the winter meetings).
The Rule 5 draft is tomorrow and apparently, there's some talent available in this years draft. Should be interesting to see if the Jays take a flier on anyone this year. I could see them looking at players from any position with their openings.
Historically, the Jays have taken 19 players in the Rule 5 draft that have played for the team. A few, such as last years Zech Zinicola pick, have been returned prior to the start of the season. Of those 19 players previously selected, the Jays have hit homeruns on three of them: George Bell (1980 from Philadelphia), Kelly Gruber (1983 from Cleveland), and Willie Upshaw (1977 from the Yankees). Those three all played 9 years in Jays uniforms and were all on the team for the Jays first playoff run. They combined for 3159 games, 3076 H, 428 HR and 1652 RBI and a total of 55.1 WAR (fangraphs methodology).
Other useful players selected include Jim Gott (1981), Jim Acker (1982) and Manuel Lee (1984). Also of note, the Jays select DeWayne Wise in 1999, for his first stint here. Pat Gillick was good at finding useful players that no one else wanted - one of his trademarks I suppose. The 2000's haven't been as kind for the Jays Rule 5 picks. Of Corey Thurman (2001), Aquilino Lopez (2002), Lee Gronkiewicz (2004), Jason Smith (2006) and Randy Wells (2007), only Lopez has really contributed anything positive to the team. He had a good season in 2003 (72 games, 14 saves, 64K, 3.76 FIP), but didn't do much of anything for the Jays beyond that.
So, is anyone expecting the Jays to pick a player tomorrow at the Rule 5 draft? Of just as much consequence perhaps, does anyone take a look at Brad Eamus or Adam Loewen? I say yes to Eamus, and no to Loewen.
Blue Jays Links
FAN590 - Blogs - Miked Up " Blog Archive " A Quiet Day Two
Wilner has a good rundown of Day Two. From the article:
Alex said that there was a rumour yesterday that had the Blue Jays very, very interested in a player, and a few hours after that rumour began spreading, Alex got a phone call from that very player’s agent asking if he wanted to discuss signing his guy. That was Pena. That’s also kind of hilarious.
FAN590 - Blogs - Miked Up " Blog Archive " A Nice Touch
Wilner also writes about the manager celebration held yesterday, including Gaston, Torre, Piniella and Cox. He has some interesting notes in here - well worth the read.
Marcum trade leaves spot open for Blue Jays | bluejays.com: News
Farrell talks about the pitching staff for next year, and AA indicates that Zach Stewart could be a lot closer to a call up than people think.
1 Blue Jays Way : Toronto Blue Jays Blog: I never did end up getting any info on Alan Farina
Some good information here on Thames and Loewen courtesy of Adam at projectprospect.com.
Pat Gillick honoured for a career still going strong - The Globe and Mail
Stephen Brunt at the Globe has a nice little piece on Gillick.
Drunk Jays Fans: Winter Meetings Day Three: Still Talking About Greinke and Lawrie
Stoeten summarizes yesterdays Prime Time Sports, where Bob McCown and Keith Law had a chat.
Market For Russell Martin Intensifying: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
Nothing new here, but the Jays are still showing interest in Russell Martin. Since the Red Sox and Yanks are in, I'm pretty sure the Jays would have to overpay which I don't like.
Griffin: Is Brett Lawrie swagger changing image of Jays? - thestar.com
Griffin wonders if Lawrie fits the 'family-oriented Blue Jays way'. I wonder, does it really matter? If he can play, he can play. The 1993 Phillies could play but you wouldn't want to have them over for family dinner - they were still loved, because they could play.
Jays Minors Transaction: Sign RP Winston Abreu | Jays Journal
Mat Germain profiles Winston Abreu, who signed with the Jays on November 29. This was a pretty low profile signing, (I don't remember hearing much about it at the time). Should be a good AAA(A) depth signing at least - a guy that should do well in Vegas and could fill in for the Jays in a pinch.
The 5th starter: No Longer On Board: The Zack Greinke makes me S.A.D edition
The 5th Starter is tired of the Greinke for Snider and Drabek rumours. A look at the surplus value of Snider and Drabek.
Around the League
Day In Review: 12/7/10: MLB Rumors
A review of all of yesterday's moves. The two biggest signed were Carlos Pene and Ty Wigginton, although lots of trade rumours were flying around too.
Trading those untradable contracts
The Hardball Times looks at untradable contracts. Including some unlikely deals. They suggest a Vernon Wells for Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez deal.
On Conlin, the Hall of Fame, and space aliens
Hardball Times takes a look at newly inducted Hall of Fame writer, Bill Conlin.
Are Writers Picking Better MVPs and Cy Youngs? | FanGraphs Baseball
Jesse Wolfersberger takes a look at the correlation between WAR and MVP/Cy Young vote getters.
Omar Linares " Mop Up Duty | Baseball News Sabermetric | Baseball History Bio
A profile of Cuban legend, Omar Linares. Interesting reading.
The 5th starter: A Toronto Blue Jays Blog: The Pro-Prospect Rebuttal: Top Prospect Lists
A look at the top prospects lists from the past few years, and how the players have done in their careers so far.
Mortgaging Years: When Is It Okay? | FanGraphs Baseball
Dave Cameron wonders if 'building for the future' is really the right way to go about building a contender.
Court rules McCourts' agreement invalid | Baseball | Sports | Toronto Sun
Sounds like the issue of Dodgers ownership might take a while.
Rays, White Sox Interested In Accardo: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
Rays, White Sox, Dodgers and Pirates all looking at Accardo.
Kevin Gregg Has Multiple Offers: MLB Rumors
Gregg has offers from Red Sox, Pirates and Nationals. Orioles and Mariners also in the mix.
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This is one reason why Pat is in the HoF
The way Gillick raided teams in Rule 5 embarrassed a lot of “old” school GMs which is why it seems so much harder to snag a really good player from the Rule 5 draft these days. Although I’m betting Houston is still kicking themselves over losing Johan Santana to the Twins.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 8, 2010 10:21 AM EST reply actions
Well Gillick was in a good spot to use the Rule 5 draft
We had a pretty crappy team, and our minor league system was still filling up. We could hold a player on the roster, knowing he wasn’t blocking anyone. Upshaw was a lousy player for years but we could hold on to him because it wasn’t like he was blocking anyone. Same with Bell and Gruber, Gruber had a big 16 at bats his rule 5 year. If you thought you were competing for a playoff spot you couldn’t waste a roster spot like that.
Good point Tom
Upshaw had 4 years in the system before he broke out in ’82. And he only had one year of the 4 with more than 200 PA. Bell had 3 years in the system before he broke out in ’84. Gruber in his first 3 years had 16, 13 and 152 PA, before he got significant playing time in ’87 and his breakout year in ’88.
Manny Lee didn’t do much his first 3/4 years either, although they were already a contendor by then.
This year too, no?
Wouldn’t the Jays be in a position this year to carry a Rule 5 pick if it’s a quality player?
I’d think so as this year’s still supposed to be about the plan and playing the young guys.
Quick question for everyone
Are you guys happy with these posts? Anything you want changed? Too much preamble or too many non-Jays links? Let me know if you have any feedback or suggestions.
Thanks.
I love getting all of these links!
I guess my only complaint is that the volume of them make me go a little cross-eyed (perhaps its the fact that I cam colorblind that is causing this). Is there another way to organize them?
by Sir Real Ism on Dec 8, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Blue Jays Links/ Around the League categories are great BTW
by Sir Real Ism on Dec 8, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Hahah, I’ll see what I can do Craig. I’m sure I could find a Brett Favre pick or two for you next time. ;)
by masterkembo on Dec 8, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Russell Martin update
I’d say this probably means the Jays are out:
The Dodgers’ final offer to Martin was $4.2MM plus $1.5-1.7MM in incentives based on games played, reports Yahoo’s Steve Henson. Henson says letting Martin go was a gut-wrenching decision for GM Ned Colletti. Will he match the amount he turned down from the Dodgers?
If $4.2MM plus the incentives wasn’t enough, I’m sure the Jays will be passing.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Wells for soriano/ ramirez?
That’s intriguing. While I don’t want anything to do with soriano it would definitely help having ramirez.
I wouldn’t do that trade because of soriano and our lack of cf replacements. Ramirez would be ok with me at the right price…. Maybe a salary purge? How much does he cost?
by ddbumpus on Dec 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't get why the Wells deal would make sense for TO
Soriano is signed for the same length for almost as much dough, is not any better offensively, can’t play center, and is poor on defense. Wells is more valuable than the $3 million/year the Jays would save by making this deal.
Ramirez could be a good buy-low candidate to rebound offensively and isn’t a horrible fielder, but I would rather just eat his salary than bundle Wells in the deal and have to take Soriano back.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Lawrie Speaks
Still not 100% sold on the trade, but I love that attitude. I have a feeling he’s going to make a lot of fans in Toronto very quickly.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
this, on the other hand
Lawrie plays with a fire for sure, but he did not exhibit it this fall. The Brewers assigned him to the Arizona Fall League after the double-A Huntsville season ended but he did not want to go.
I don’t love
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Is there an actual story regarding this? Like, he didn’t go because he didn’t think he needed it or something? I have seen a lot of speculation as to the reason he didn’t go, but nothing definite. He had already played a long season, leading his league in games and PA’s, I think, so I wonder if it was something to do with fatigue.
cocky much?
Don’t think I like his attitude. Would like a bit more humility, little less sense of entitlement. 20 years old, needs to learn a little more more before telling guys twice/three times his age where he needs to go.
Meh. The jump from AA to MLB is quite common I think, and he’s confident as arguably the best player in his league last year (and certainly the top of his age group), that he can make that jump.
The line between confidence and arrogance isn’t often a straight one and he’s definitly stradling it, but we’ll see how he looks in March. It will be interesting to see, if he does get sent down, how he reacts then.
I’m okay with this attidute, providing he plays as well as he talks. From everything I’ve heard, he plays hard and works hard, and I don’t think having a high strung, cocky player on the Jays will hurt.
He’s also a kid. A little time in the system will hopefully mature him a bit. I consider myself a pretty normal guy, and if I had an elite level of talent in something as a 20 year old, I can only cringe to imagine the type of arrogent entitled nonsense I would have said.
for sure
I don’t have any serious misgivings about his makeup, given his age.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Yes, let’s save our concern for his fielding. Seriously though, based on the reports, he’s an athletic guy with an above average arm. Both 3B and the corner OF would make a nice fit for his makeup, and that would be his fastest route to the MLB club. Bautista’s versitility will really help if the kid’s cockiness is merited and he does force the Jays to promote him rapidly.
Move him the 3B
Canadians don’t play 2B :)
by leonard euler on Dec 8, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
The fact that he sounds like a frat boy and has horrible taste in ink doesn’t bother me. The fact he’s hitting the heck out of AA pitching at 20 is where my thoughts keep going.
TO is not Philly...
The 1993 Phillies could play but you wouldn’t want to have them over for family dinner – they were still loved, because they could play.
I can sum up the difference between Philly and TO attitude withe their popular kind of athlete: in TO “Gritty, hard-working, intelligent, good guy”. In Philly: “Mo***er-F***ing SOB that’ll chew you up and spit you out”.
However – Everybody loves Doc. Could it be that he’s a “Dangerous-lookin’-grit-spittin-SOB” but in a good, intelligent way?
;-p
Sorry ‘bout that. I’m just having my first coffee (1:30pm)
Festina Lente
CALLED IT !!
JP was always so predictable. Having AA keeping me guessing all the time is way more fun.
Rule 5
I wonder if the Jays are targeting Guelph, Ontario native Scott Diamond…could be a useful lefty out of the pen.
Appropriately named
Almost as good as ex Jay outfielder, ‘Joe Cannon’
Don’t know much about him though – is he worth targeting, or just for the Canadian content?
Sorry...
Please see below for my incisive observations.
He had AAA success last year
He seems to give every indication of being able to stick at the big league level.
Beau Mills?
If you check out my prospect review, Ricky Romero was ranked #87 by Baseball America in ‘06. Brandon Morrow had the EXACT same ranking in ’07. #87 in 2008 was Beau Mills, who has been left unprotected by the Cleveland Indians organization. It’s a creepy coincedence, but I would really love to see the Jays give him a chance to win the 3B job in the spring. Thoughts?
I'd rather see them try to swing a deal for Nick Weglarz
Slugger from Ontario whom could possibly slot into the first base role as soon as next year.
I like it.
Took a look on baseball reference and he’s a good avg, high OBP type player. Defense doesn’t really seem off the charts for an OF.
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