So what sort of manager would you like?
by Tom Dakers on Feb 13, 2010 1:09 PM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays Analysis
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PrintHotstove.com sent out a question to Jay bloggers asking 'is Cito Gaston the right manager for the Jays at this moment?' Both Hugo and I answered back 'no'. You can see the answers here. So what would we like to see in a manager for the Jays?
Well, first, we have a lot of young pitchers who will have to be handled carefully. I want a manager that can do a good job of weeding through them to find which he wants on his staff, which he feels needs more time in the minors and which we can send packing. I want someone that makes his choice of 5 starting pitchers and then sticks with his choices. What I'd like is him to say to each one he chooses is that 'you will start every 5th game and, barring injury you will get 15 starts guaranteed, so go out there and show us what you can do'. Don't have them worrying that a bad start will have them sent to the minors. If this is a learning year, let them learn. Oh, and if there is a day off, move them all back a day, don't skip someone.
Beyond that I want a manager that can see the signs of a pitcher tiring and I want him to pull the pitcher when he tires. I don't care about the pitch count, if the pitcher is tired at 50 pitches, pull him. With a young staff I would like a hard ceiling on pitches thrown of about 115. Pitchers, especially young pitchers, get hurt when they continue to throw when they are tired. I want a manager very sensitive to that. And I don't want a starter left in to be shelled. Allowing a guy to stay out there when he's got nothing doesn't help his confidence or his arm.
With the bullpen, I want a manager that has confidence in every guy in that pen. We have a lot of good arms battling for a spot in the pen. The manager is going to pick the 7 he likes best, if there are any he doesn't have confidence in, they shouldn't be on the staff. I don't want a manager that loses confidence in a guy because of one or two bad outings. You picked him, you stand by him. The flip side of this is: don't be using the same guys every day. Last year, any game that was close, Jesse Carlson and Brandon League came in. Yeah I get that Cito liked those two, but too much use isn't good for a reliever and showing some confidence in the other members of the bullpen isn't a bad idea. Let's not have guys leading the league in appearances when we have several arms that can do a good job.
On the offensive side, I want a manager that that will put young players like Travis Snider in the lineup and leave them there. I don't want Travis thinking 'if I go 0 for 4 I won't play for a week'. I want him out there every day. I don't care if he goes 0 for 18, I don't want him sent down to the minors. He's the future. Same goes for Brett Wallace and JP Arencibia if they were to make the team. Sitting does them no good.
On the flip side, I don't want a manager that falls in love with a veteran. Last year, Kevin Millar played and Randy Ruiz sat. Millar, we knew exactly what he could give us and we knew he wasn't going to be here the next year. Ruiz, we didn't know and we knew we controlled him. Jose Bautista played, we knew he could hit lefties, not so much righties and Travis sat.
Beyond that, I want a manager that communicates. Not just with the players he likes but with everyone. I want players to know where they sit with him. I don't want the players revolting at the end of the year. I want players to know their roles and I want the manager to talk to them if the role changes.
I'd like if the manager tried a few things. Hit and runs. Steals. Doesn't have to happen a lot, just enough to show the manager is taking part in the proceedings. But if he bunts with the number 2 hitter in the first inning I'm going to burn him in effigy.
Beyond that, yeah the calming presence that Cito has would be nice. The ability to teach. Being a nice guy would be ok but if he's a jerk that does everything else well, I can live with that.
Oh, and someone that calls me once a week or so to chew the fat and give us stuff to write about wouldn't hurt.
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Of course
How selfish of me. Lets have everything that you want to have.
HEADING STRAIGHT FOR THEM, I PRESS DOWN MAH GUNS!
I think you have missed the point of the exercise
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
But ummmmm yeah....
that’s why I titled it “what sort of manager would you like”…..so I could say what I’d like.
Tom, I love ya but...
You don’t want a “Manager that…” you want a “Manager who…”
As to the content of your post – She Who Must Be Obeyed has insisted that I accompany her on a tour or various women’s clothing stores – something about needing security and someone to “carry” her soon to be made massive purchases – accordingly, I’ll comment on the content of your rant(let) when She has allowed me to re-enter the house.
Peace and love.
I want a manager who understands how double switches work and doesn't fall asleep during 'meaningless' August games
So basically, I’m not asking for much.
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Feb 13, 2010 2:57 PM EST reply actions
Asking very little...
Personally, I just want a manager that knows who’s in the ‘pen. I bet you he used League and Carlson because he was the only 2 who’s name he actually remembered. And tell the difference between Accardo and Janssen.
As for loyalty, I think there’s too much and having too little. Charlie Manuel of the Phils, for instance, has way too much. Lidge had an ERA of around 6 and he was the closer for the entire season. He’s very lucky they play in the same division as “shoot yourself in the foot teams” like the Mets and the Braves. For the Jays, someone in the middle should be good because if Snider is 0-20, you really should give the guy a break.
I want a strong developmental guy, like a Butterfield or Eric Wedge, who is comfortable with a young team, and knows how to get guys to the next level.
My fault.....
I meant to write the piece without comparing to Cito and started it comparing, in my head, to Joe Torre. But it didn’t last. I do want some Cito qualities. But it was early in the morning, for me, and I didn’t stick to the plan
Well first of all, I don’t think ANY manager will make every decision everyone wants, so it’s extremely rare that people are ever happy unless you’re winning championships. And while Cito isn’t perfect and I wouldn’t bring him back for this year it’s for a very different reason than most, b/c he won’t be around after this year. It’s that simple, I want to see the manager get in with the players sooner. As for Cito, does he do everything how I would … no. Am I going to whine and cry about every TINY decision that really doesn’t matter in the large scope of things, absolutely not.
In general I think the bashing of Cito is quite ridiculous. He didn’t play Randy Ruiz? Lets call a spade a spade, guys like Ruiz come along EVERY DAY. He’s a 32-year old rookie who was cut by about 7 teams in his career already and has hit well in AAA … in the joke of a league that is the PCL of course. And please don’t say what about Edgar Martinez, b/c what about the other thousands of guys like him every year that never accomplish anything. It’s not like the Jays turned around and cut him. He got a decent # of PA’s in Sept, he’s got his 40-man spot, and he’s got a chance to win a place on the team. Millar is gone, so his job is up for Ruiz to claim.
On not playing Travis Snider, the fact is the kid was 5th on the team in PA’s in September. People complain like he was called up and asked to serve drinks to the veterans wives in the stands.
Plus I love how people want guys like Millar and Bautista to have their role taken away from them while at the same time complain that the players need roles…
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you cannot run a team like it’s your fantasy squad. You are dealing with PEOPLE. If you sign guys like Millar and bring them in to the clubhouse and give them a defined role, to just snatch that away from them (when we all know it was a waste of a year anyway) DOES have a downside. It makes your organization look like it doesn’t treat people well, especially if you told Millar his role from day one. The result is people don’t want to join your organization in the future. I think people overlook this aspect far too often. Yeah sure, bench Millar, play the guy who has a one-in-a-bazillion chance of ever being anything, make your organization look bad … then tell me what happens the next time you’re out there bidding for a veteran FA. You have to balance things, you cannot just cut people off b/c as an organization that’s a horrible decision. The manager isn’t just juggling current results and future assets, he’s juggling the team’s image as well, and make no mistake that MATTERS. It also matters to the clubhouse as to how that manager is viewed. I would bet that if you asked most of the Jays who they wanted out there last year, they’d have said Millar. So you have to be careful when you mix in someone else. With Snider it’s easier b/c everyone know’s he’s a cornerstone. But in the majority of situations, I think Cito handled it relatively well. Maybe I would have played someone a LITTLE more here and another a LITTLE less there, but things could have been a lot worse. He could be Dusty Baker for one …
Millar was not signed to bat clean up
and anyone that thinks that benching a player that doesn’t hit will cause problems in signing players later hasn’t seen baseball. We released Frank Thomas for not hitting and no one suggested that it cost us signing someone later. The idea that players should get to play whether they produce or not is just silly.
Anyone who thinks an organization (of any kind) that creates a perception that it does not treat employees well will NOT cause problems in attracting new employees must not have worked in any organization of any kind ever in the history of mankind … ever. And yes, 90% of that was having fun with your “matter of fact” tone. But it still stands.
I never said you should bat him cleanup, I never said I would do everything 100% as Cito did. But of course you cannot argue that the team sucks so you have to give Ruiz a shot and then be upset if he chooses to hit Millar 4th … b/c the team still sucks, so if winning is unimportant enough to give unproven guys a shot why is it such a big deal where he hits Millar. Again, would I do it? No. Was it a HUGE deal? Not particularly. If we get into a playoff race and Alex Gonzalez is hitting at the top of the lineup I’ll be first in line to complain.
What I’m saying is it’s a balancing act … you’re always making cut and dry statements, such as “Last year, Kevin Millar played and Randy Ruiz sat.” It’s not that simple. It’s never that simple. Heck they basically played the same amount in September. That’s NOT a huge deal.
As for Frank Thomas, that situation was completely different. Thomas was brought in to produce, Millar was brought in more as a veteran presence. Thomas was a clubhouse cancer, Millar was the exact opposite. Thomas was livid if he didn’t play every day, people are whining that Millar played minimally.
As for Bautista (comment below), he’s our utility guy so it doesn’t really matter. And I’m not going to get into the Snider in RF thing at length again, you know what I think about that already. But I WILL say that the transition to RF began in the minors, not in the majors. So that’s more of an organizational difference of opinion I would guess. Ditto for when people start complaining about Brett Wallace not getting a shot at 3b.
Oh and btw, here’s 2 comments you’ve made in this thread that I would suggest are a bit of contradiction:
comment #1:
“The idea that players should get to play whether they produce or not is just silly.”
comment #2:
“I want a manager that that will put young players like Travis Snider in the lineup and leave them there. I don’t want Travis thinking ‘if I go 0 for 4 I won’t play for a week’. I want him out there every day. I don’t care if he goes 0 for 18, I don’t want him sent down to the minors”
But again, I just think comment #1 was overly simplistic. I think comment #2 is more accurate in that there’s more to PT than just production sometimes. In Snider’s case, it’s future value. In Millar’s case, it’s probably clubhouse and league perception. Maybe you don’t agree to what extent, but you cannot deny it’s existence entirely (well you aren’t trying to anyway).
Gee, you're getting a bit silly here
I understand you just don’t go releasing or benching people when they’re not producing for short periods. But there was no reason to play Millar over Ruiz last September. It would surprise me if even Millar would have a problem with that. Heck, he was getting a garanteed salary, and he knew he wouldn’t be back, and that Ruiz had a chance to be back. Plus, batting Millar 4th? Come on…
And you’re saying he dealt with it well? Well, I’ve never heard of such a public uproar inside a clubhouse, so some people definitely weren’t happy with his decisions.
A manager should do what’s best for the club. Period. Not the player.
I think part of this is really me not believing in Ruiz to the extent most people do. He’s another Chad Hermensen to me, a fine AAAA player but nothing more. Players ripping up AAA once they get into their prime years is nothing new, it happens every year and it generally amounts to nothing more than a great player for your AAA club.
And I believe a manager should do what he thinks is best for the organization, we just disagree on what that is.
Maybe he is, but isn’t the point of playing him to find out? Has Cito been following him for years in the minors to know this? He just saw him in ST and in September. And if he didn’t like what he saw, well I dunno may he sees something. But I saw someone who was OPS over 1.000 and deserved a look. I mean even AA has mentioned his name as a possibility for DH this season, so wouldn’t you want to look at him more?
And if you don’t like Ruiz, then there were some other guys that he could’ve given those AB’s to, that would be more productive to the future of the team. Snider maybe?
I get your argument. I just don’t think many baseball followers will agree with you.
Man....if you don't think you can bench Millar...
how did the team get away with letting Ryan go. Teams always bench or release players that don’t produce.
yes player A Travis Snider should play....he's part of the team in the future....
No player B shouldn’t just get to play, he’s Kevin Millar who isn’t part of the team in the future. He plays if he produces. If you can’t see the difference between a good young prospect and a guy that was brought in to fill for a year then I understand why we don’t agree.
again, you might want to read what I’m saying … I said I understand the reasoning behind u wanting Snider to play, but what you SAID was:
"The idea that players should get to play whether they produce or not is just silly.""
Which is just not true. And you AGREE is not true. And I agree is not true. But you keep making blanket statements like that. And when people make blanket statements that even they know are not true for the sake of making an argument … well I’m not a big fan of that practice and I’m going to point it out. The fact is, you said what I’m quoting above and you have said twice already that even you know it’s not true.
Cito played Ruiz in September, just not everyday. Do you really think an extra 50ab or so that he missed out on tells you that much more about him? Ruiz did enough to secure his roster spot and have a shot at a job in ST.
If the Jays had not played him at all, maybe I’m more sympathetic. If the Jays had not played him or played him minimally and then cut him, maybe I’m more sympathetic. But they didn’t. The extra 50 or so ab he missed out on is NOT the end of the world.
And thank you for at least trying to understand what I’m saying. I would agree that many fans wouldn’t agree, but that doesn’t make me wrong. Actually, most teams would agree with what the Jays did I would think, of course that doesn’t make me right. Again, I wouldn’t whine and moan if Ruiz DID get those extra 50ab .. I’m just saying it’s not a big deal that he didn’t. And I find it funny that some of the same people who are willing to string up one player for 50ab, but not others. Sometimes 50ab is not a big deal, sometimes it is. Yada yada. It’s just not a big deal to me any way you slice it.
As for Cito following Ruiz. Here’s what we know about Ruiz:
- the Jays are his 9th major league club (the Phillies passed on him 2x, which would make it 10) … though part of his musical chairs act could be as a result of his various run in’s with PEDs (tested positive 2 times for steroids, was suspended both times I believe)
- only one of those clubs ever called him up to the bigs before the Jays
- he’s had 4000 minor league career ab’s, so I’m sure a scout or two have seen him play before … no? it’s not like the Jays know nothing about him
My argument isn’t don’t play Ruiz … it’s you don’t have to play him every single day and completely ignore other players on the roster. He’s a 32yo rookie who is an extreme longshot to be a valuable major leaguer. Giving in 50ab and a shot to win a job next year in ST is fine. That extra 50 or so ab is nothing to kill Cito over.
Cito puts up the lineup, not scouts
Face it. Cito doesn’t know the difference between Accardo and Janssen. He doesn’t know much about Ruiz. And in a previous post, you said you think players wanted Millar to get AB’s? I doubt players care about other players are getting AB’s, unless it means they are taking AB’s away from them, or it’s a matter of wins and losses.
As for the FA issue, I’m not sure I’d want to come to the Jays if I knew the manager was dividing playing time based on who he likes, or alternatively, on seniority.
If we’re judging based on wins and losses, last year was the Jays worst record since 2004. If we’re judging based on player satisfaction, last year wasn’t too good for that. If we’re judging based on player development, Snider shouldn’t have sat, and Ruiz, despite his age, should have gotten Millar’s ABs.
I think with Randy Ruiz
half of the reason you give him more at-bats is so that he can prove that his hitting was for real, but half of the reason is so that he can prove that it was a fluke. If Ruiz had gotten another 50 at-bats or so and they’d been terrible, we’d have a bit better of a gauge of what we have. If they’d been great, it’s the same thing. The point here is that Millar should not have been playing.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
BINGO. There was no reason, current or future, to be playing Millar at that point.
by aagoodfella on Feb 15, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I want a Manager who...
…knows he’s been hired to be fired. Who understands the “role” he’s been hired to play this year, and “this year” the “role” of the Manager is to see what the kids can do without wearing them down and destroying their confidence if they struggle.
Normally, I want a Manager who is the ONLY guy on the bench who’s job is to win EVERY game. Let the GM worry about running some guys into the ground, let the fans worry about who they like or not, the Manager’s job – day in – day out – is to put body X in position Y when needed for the team to win as often as possible. However, this year that is not the role of the Manager. I would want a Manager who can function at a high level breaking in the kids properly – but, who is also able to transition to a “winning every game” type Manager by 2012 when we’ll be in “contention” mode.
In other words we need a guy like – me. AA – I’m available – IF ONLY my wife would let me – women, don’t they just drive ya nuts!
Butterfield
Too bad Sal Fasano doesn’t have more experience.
I would like an INVISIBLE manager, literally.
A manager that the players never meet and vice versa, just someone in the crowd who knows what he is doing and calling the shots through his walkie.
A manager that doesn’t befriend or dislikes players. A manager that makes decisions based on development, growth, and team needs as opposed to a manager that makes decisions based on feelings.
I would love to see a manager make all his/her decisions all based on a statistical model in conjunction with team growth. This way players can only direct their playing time hate towards computer programmers.
An outsider as manager?
Kind of cool. But as much as I’d think it would be interesting, I still think there is a value to a manager knowing how the players are feeling.
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