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A Mariners Fan Looks at Brandon Morrow

Look, let's get one thing straight: there are people whom you root for; every one on the current Mariner roster falls into this category for me. That's because the Mariners have been, are and always will be my team. This also includes names like Randy Johnson, even when he was pitching for Arizona, New York and San Francisco. It includes Derek Lowe. It includes Mike Cameron, prized center fielder who helped Seattle forget the pain of Griffey leaving us just by being awesome himself.

But then...then there are players for whom rooting is not enough. There are players that you idolize, to whom you ascribe fantastical powers--even in a slump, you want that man hitting because dammit, no matter what, he's your guy! These guys, you go to the stadium and you make posters, you buy their jerseys. And even if they're not the best guy on the team, you want their autograph. For me, this has been a fairly short list: Jay Buhner (even when he played in the same outfield as baseball god Ken Griffey, Jr.), Ichiro Suzuki, Kenji Johjima. Over the last three seasons, one name has taken this fervor to heights I haven't known since Mike Blowers was the M's third baseman. Brandon Morrow is that man.

I just want to get that out there: I am not a Brandon Morrow supporter. I am a Brandon Morrow fan. I have put my hope in his progression; I have seen his performance, his flashing moments of brilliance, and I want to believe that he will one day put it all together and be a name people mention in the same breath as Felix Hernandez, Justin Verlander, Zack Greinke. I have a stuffed rabbit form Build-A-Bear decked out in a Mariners uniform. His name is Morrow. Brandon's first career start, against the Yankees, during which he no-hit the most formidable offensive line up in baseball for more than 7 innings? I was there. His second no-hit bid against the A's a year later? I wish I had been there, but I watched every inning with a giddy excitement thinking Finally! and anticipating the moment I could leap and tell everyone I told you! I told you! Morrow's awesome!.

So what I am about to type should be taken with that grain of salt. I know Morrow hasn't put it all together yet. On raw facts, on just watching, rationally speaking, he's crumbled as often as he's injected me with that maddening hope. But I don't care. I'm not a supporter. I'm a fan.

I hated the Brandon League-Brandon Morrow trade. Despite my fandom, I just want to throw out that the trade doesn't even sit well with me on a rational level.

I have bored so many people to death with baseball statistics that it probably just lets people glaze over it, but I want to go into that arena anyway. I want to compare Brandon Morrow straight up to Brandon League, and look at his statistical postings against similar players throughout baseball history. I want you to be a Brandon Morrow fan.

Star-divide


In 2007, Brandon made his major league debut as a reliever for the Seattle Mariners. He did this after being drafted in 2006 and throwing only 8 games in the minors--all below A-ball; he skipped AA and AAA completely--five of which were starts. His cumulative inning totals in those five starts/seven games? Sixteen. I say this not because Morrow wasn't good in the minors--for such a small sample size, he was pretty filthy: against 62 batters, Brandon struck out 17, walked 9; he gave up four runs and 10 hits. His WHIP was 1.188. His FIP was 3.28. His batting average against was a minuscule .189.

By comparison, Tim Lincecum (who was picked up right behind Morrow in the draft, the Mariners letting him slip), University of Washington product now pitching full time for the San Francisco Giants and owner two Cy Young Awards, pitched literally 4 times as much as Morrow in the minors--including time spent in AAA in 2007; he didn't make his big league debut until two months into the 2007 season. Moreover, he was used full-time as a starter. No relief nonsense. Ever.

And yet, for their early going you can look at these lines:

Pitcher A: 23-24 yrs old, 3.83 ERA, 7.6 H/9, 9.4 SO/9, 4.0 BB/9, 195 IP
Pitcher B: 22-24 yrs old, 3.96 ERA, 7.4 H/9, 9.3 SO/9, 5.8 BB/9, 197 IP

Pitcher A is Lincecum, Pitcher B is Morrow. These are their lines across the first 200-ish innings of their respective major league careers. Morrow's glaring flaw is apparent right away: way too many walks. Morrow's control issues hamstring his promise quite a bit. But the talent is all there. What's utterly bizarre in Morrow's case is the extra year of time to get to 197. That 197 is split across three years of MLB service, during which he threw 63.1, 64.2 and 69.2 innings respectively--some while relieving, some while starting.

Let's make this absolutely clear: Brandon Morrow's development was fracked by the Bill Bavasi front office. After throwing as a reliever in 2007, during which he posted a respectable 4.12 ERA (against a 4.19 FIP, whoa, talk about true talent level!), K'd 66 and surrendered 3 home runs to the 283 batters he faced, Brandon was cemented in the bullpen. This despite continued control issues that saw him walk 51 batters (yikes!).

Lincecum spent 4x as much time as Morrow in the minors, all as a starter, and has never worked out of the pen. The development of Morrow was fucked from the beginning.

As a junior in 2006, Morrow split time between starting and relieving and posted a 2.05 ERA across 92.2 innings in14 appearances. Lincecum posted a 1.94 ERA across 125.1 innings in 22 appearances as a pure starter. To put that into perspective, Morrow averaged 6.2 IP per appearance to Lincecum's 5.2, and posted an ERA only 0.1 points higher. For FIP: Morrow=3.45, Lincecum=2.60.

Should the Mariners have drafted Lincecum? That really comes down to your evaluation of talent at the college level, and quite honestly they're about a push based on production. To say Lincecum as a Mariner would be the same Lincecum as a Giant is results-based, not process-based. And the thing is, do you really think Bavasi would have given Lincecum 60+ innings in the minors and brought him up as a pure starter when he didn't do the same for Morrow? The whole process is different.

Aside from the walks issues (control), Morrow and Lincecum are about a push on pure talent. Hell, they're college walks numbers prove it--Lincecum walked 4.5/9 IP in his junior year. Morrow walked 3.65/9 IP in the same span. Morrow has raised his college walk rate in the majors; Lincecum has dropped his. Methinks it's got a lot to do with coaching and development.

His 2008 campaign was reassuringly dominant. Before being sent to Tacoma in August, Morrow's relief pitching yielded 11.5 K/9, 0.9 WHIP, 3.63 FIP in 36.2 IP. The FIP should have been a red flag, as it indicated Morrow's continued control issues in spite of his 1.47 ERA--he walked 15 batters at a clip of 3.68 for every nine innings he pitched. This puts him somewhere between current Andy Pettite (old, past his prime) and the bad version of Barry Zito (old, past his prime). Of 77 qualified pitchers in 2009, 66 had lower BB/9 than Morrow did in 2008. Ugh.

But Morrow was sent to Tacoma to become a starter. Oh, it was a joyous moment for me. So many people were excited by it. This is what Morrow was drafted for--he was our Tim Lincecum, and wasn't Lincecum on his way to winning his first Cy Young in San Francisco? Morrow's time in Tacoma was less than thrilling. He appeared in six games and made five starts. He only threw a cumulative total of 23.1 innings. His ERA at the end of it was 5.01 (respectably, at least, it was against an FIP of 3.50). But 20 innings over 5 starts is less than four per start. That's not big league ready. But the season for AAA ends before the big league season is over, so it's time to bring Morrow up anyway.

And there it was. His big league debut as a starter. He could have faced anybody. The Royals. The A's. Some team with an anemic offense and an empty Safeco Field devoid of anything resembling pressure. But he didn't. He faced the New York Yankees. Stepping onto that mound wasn't friendly. How could it be? Half the stadium during that dismal season (the Mariners lost over 100 games with a payroll greater than 100 million, the first team in MLB history to do that) was full of Yankee fans rooting for him to fail. I figured he'd throw maybe 5 innings, really get his feet wet at the big league level and then call it good.

Brandon Morrow was not there to throw 5 innings. Brandon Morrow came to play baseball. Correction: Brandon Morrow came to make the New York Yankees look like a bunch of little leaguers. He threw 7 innings without giving up a hit. Sure, he walked three, but he made up for it every time: 8 strikeouts. Of the 106 pitches he threw that night, 72 were strikes. Of the 15 non-strike outs he recorded, seven never left the infield. I remember watching in something close to awe when A-Rod almost did a pirouette flailing helplessly at...wait, what the hell, that wasn't a fast ball! Brandon Morrow throws 97, and that thing went 83 with enough bend to to make Beckham jealous. That was one sick curve ball! After recording 2 outs in the 8th, Morrow gave up a double to a pinch hitter, ending a bid to be immortalized in Seattle's collective memory. In post game interviews, Derek Jeter would call Morrow's stuff "electric", and claim that when you run into a pitcher who's on his game like that, there's not much you can do.

The Brandon Morrow era had arrived in Seattle. Or so we thought.

The rest of the season wasn't so kind to Brandon. Over the last 4 starts of the season, Morrow was still promising, but not quite as refined. Against the Angels, Morrow went 5 innings and gave up 2 runs on five hits. Not bad, really, until you considered that he also walked 4 in those five innings. Against the Royals--the ROYALS!--he threw 4 innings and surrendered 6 runs, once again giving up as many walks as strikeouts. He would throw a nice game against Oakland: 6.1 IP, 6 K, 3 R. (Of course, he'd also still walk 5 people in this game...ugh.) The bullpen would end up blowing Morrow's shot at a second win, even as he left the game with a two-run lead. In his final start, once again facing the A's, Morrow got that win...but not for pitching well. He surrendered 6 runs in five innings of work, striking out 8...but walking five.

So here's the winter between 2008 and 2009. Morrow can go to the winter leagues and refine his starting, come into his own in 2009, right? I mean, finally give him genuine development time and that's what he'll be--a starter. But no. After continuing to work his arm all through the offseason, Brandon entered spring training with "dead arm", fatigued and without much feeling, he couldn't throw much. No problem: send him to Tacoma, let him work some more on starting and rehab.

Except that's not what the Mariners did. Morrow elected to become the team's closer, to start the year in the bullpen, with only two weeks left of spring training. The results were disastrous. In his first two opportunities in Minnesota, Morrow blew both saves--he walked 4 hitters in the ninth inning of game one. He was relegated to a role as a set up man and swing-reliever. After a couple weeks, Brandon complained of shoulder tightness and was put on the fifteen day DL. Upon his return, Wakamatsu put him straight back to the closer role he had so ineffectively handled in April. Morrow ended up throwing only 16 games out of the pen, and to be fair he was just as terrible as those first couple outings indicated: 6.38 ERA, a 5.46 FIP (so he was at least a little better than his ERA, huzzah!), 14 walks in 18 innings, 3 home runs in same, and if you care about the state, a save percentage under 70 (6 Sv/9 SvO).

So when the team finally wises up and says Morrow's a starter, what do they do? They say "Hey, we'll send you to Tacoma and you'll be back up in July. Get some work in." Literally, they said that. But here's what they actually did: on a warm day in mid-June in Colorado, Don Wakamatsu goes to Brandon Morrow and says "Hey, you wanna start today!?" And Brandon Morrow says "Uh...sure, I guess." Or something like that. He ends up starting without ever getting his stint in Tacoma. At this point in the season, Morrow hasn't even made it three innings in any appearance.

He goes 3 in Denver, gives up only one run, but continues his massive control issues: he walks 4 in those 3 innings, and only throws 36 of his 64 pitches for strikes. He continues in this vein for a while: a so-so appearance in San Diego, a resurgent apperance in Safeco against the Padres once more, a bipolar outing in New York sunk by bad defense (of three runs surrendered, only 1 was earned, but Morrow also walked 5) followed by a brilliant start in Boston (6 IP, 7 K, 2 BB, 3 R--all of homers in the Red Sox's high school-sized joke of a stadium) and a disaster in Texas.

By now it's July and Morrow is firmly in the rotation. He's made six starts and is pushing into the fifth and beyond every game. Do you know what that means!? It's a perfect time to send Brandon Morrow to Tacoma! Yahoo! In AAA, Brandon proves to be head and shoulders against the competition. He throws 55 innings in 10 starts including one complete game. He still has control issues, walking 3.76 every nine innings, but he's striking out at twice that rate. In the Pacific Coast League, which is very hitter-friendly, Morrow only surrenders 2 homers. He has an FIP of 3.53. The minors still can't touch him.

The AAA season ends and the Mariners finally bring Morrow back into the major league fold. Brandon doesn't disappoint--no, really, he doesn't disappoint at all. After people really getting down on his inconsistency, and his moments of promise and the letdowns, Brandon is remarkably consistent in September. He gets 4 starts, wins two of them and posts two no decisions. In those 4 starts, he cumulatively collects 23.2 innings (every start saw Brandon working thru the 5th or farther) and drops his ERA by a whole run. The control issues are still there: 13 BB's to 18 K's. He does all this with less than 100 pitches per outing. (Heck, his outing in Tampa Bay I still maintain that at only 73 pitches, Morrow should have been allowed to continue thru at least the 6th.)

And just in case we forgot why we could be excited about him, Brandon's last outing for the Mariners was like his first: lights-out. He went 8 innings against the A's and allowed only one hit. He surrendered no runs, struck out 9 and walked only 2. It was another jaw-dropping "Wow, this kid is good" moments.

On a list of pitchers who have accumulated at least 150 innings before age 25, walk more than 5.5 per nine, give up less than 7.5 per nine and strike out more than 9 per nine, there are only five names: John Rocker, Nolan Ryan, Herb Score, Matt Mantei and Brandon Morrow. How do you like those odds?

You should like them a lot. Matt Mantei was essentially where Morrow's at now: a career reliever with an ERA hovering around 4.0. Herb Score was a career starter with an ERA of 3.36. John Rocker was another career reliever, but his ERA ends up around 3.42. I trust I don't need to illuminate on Nolan Ryan.

But here's another interesting thought exercise for you.

Pitcher A: 6.46 ERA, 69.1 IP 5.59 FIP, 42 K, 40 BB, .292 BAA, .874 OPS
Pitcher B: 4.42 ERA, 79.1 IP, 5.22 FIP, 71 K, 49 BB, .232 BAA, .739 OPS

Pitcher A is Jon Garland in the first fifteen starts of his career. Pitcher B is Brandon Morrow across the same span, during which he was jerked around as reliever--minor leaguer--reliever--starter--reliever--starter--minor leaguer--starter. If you don't believe in the Nolan Ryan upside of Brandon Morrow, how 'bout settling for Jon Garland?

In his first full season as a starter, Garland posted these numbers: 3.69 ERA, 117 IP, 5.34 FIP, 61 K, 55 BB, .277 BAA, .786 OPS. Make those same improvements across the board for Brandon and you get this: 2.52 ERA, 134 IP, 4.98 FIP, 70 K, 63 BB, .220 BAA, .665 OPS. As FIP is a better indicator of performance than ERA, and defense has such an influence on the latter, I think it's more reasonable to regress Morrow closer to a run off his ERA than 2. That still makes him a mid-3's pitcher.

I said I wanted to compare Morrow to Brandon League, but I just spent a lot of words here saying nothing more than "Morrow is better than you think." Here's some pretty pictures from Fangraphs that shows League's wild inconsistency relative to Morrow's career line. It's a pretty straight comparison of the two on raw numbers. (Hint: Morrow's better.) As a starter, Morrow is also inherently more valuable than the reliever League. In three seasons of going back-and-forth, Morrow's cumulative worth is 1.3 WAR, roughly $5.5 million. In six seasons of all relief work (minus time on the DL and rehab assignments in the farm system, League has only managed 5 more innings than Morrow (202 to 197), strikes out less and has been worth 1.5 WAR.

2010 Morrow on the Blue Jays is not the same as 2010 Morrow on the Mariners. It's a different division, facing the Red Sox and Yankees a lot. It's a different park, turf instead of grass that will see groundballs become quick singles, and a park that gives up more home runs on average than Safeco. And it's a different defense. But 2010 Morrow is poised to be much better than Jack Zduriencik valued him to be.

In point of fact, Dave Cameron of USS Mariner slated Morrow to be a relief pitcher throughout to 2009 and to add +0.5 wins from June 4th 'til the end of the season. Brandon, as mentioned above, was converted to a starter at the big league level and didn't spend much time in the bullpen. He spent 2 months completely out of the MLB working in Tacoma. And yet he still added 0.5 WAR from his mid-season total by the season's closing. As a starter, wtih two months of that not available. If you figure he was worth 4.0 runs as a starter (via Fangraphs) in 10 starts, then you can dilate that to about 12 runs over the course of a full season--and probably more, as he will be there full time, no DL, no bullpen, no mid-season conversion throwing less than five innings per game. He will be worth 1.5-2.0 WAR without even reaching his full potential.

Morrow won't contend for the Cy Young in 2010, no matter what team he's on, but he will be a valuable addition.

As far as scouting reports go, the idea that Morrow is inconsistent is just statistically unfounded. When you disclude his first two starts in 2009 (both of which he threw less than 80 pitches, went less than 4 innings, and was--if you recall--converted to starter at the big league level mid season), he averaged 5.5 innings per appearance. Brandon Morrow will take you into the sixth inning and sometimes beyond. If you look at the Fangraphs comparisons, Morrow has a far more consistent career line than League. The issue is purely his control, sidelined by development. And it hasn't stopped him from being valuable. He's healthier, he's younger, he has more upside and he's just as productive. You guys got a slick deal.

A few weeks ago this site posted a "make your predictions" post for Morrow. I wasn't a member then, but I joined just to give you guys this piece. I will, however, make predictions now, with this lengthy post as my rationale.

IP: 160-180 in 28 starts
ERA: 3.80-4.20
SO: 140-160
W-L: 14-6
1.7 WAR

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nice piece

I almost feel like the Jays swindled the Mariners. League’s upside has him at no more than an effective closer in this league. While Morrow seems like he has the tools to be an ace in this league with two plus pitches. Worse case he is a serviceable reliever with some control issues, which ironically reminds me of Brandon League.

by deg on Feb 8, 2010 11:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I do think the Jays won the trade

Although we did give up a pretty nice-looking young OF prospect too; something the Jays are pretty short on.

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Feb 8, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Really nice-looking OF prospect? He was a guy that I hadn’t even heard of before the deal.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Feb 8, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

the Hardball Times did rank him our #1 prospect right before the Halladay deal.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would say there’s a substantial difference in the upside on either player.

by dexfarkin on Feb 8, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not complaining about the deal

only pointing out that Chavez is a decent prospect

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True, but a reliever and an OF prospect for a possible front of the rotation starter? I think Seattle sold Morrow very low.

by dexfarkin on Feb 8, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

I like the move, but it worries me that Seattle was so willing to move a young arm with so much upside. I’m excited about Morrow, but also concerned that Jays fans may be overly optimistic about him

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Organizations do have built in biases though. I think it’s hard to look at Morrow’s development and not conclude that it has been an extremely bad way to try to bring along an ace. Could easily be that the perception at the front office is that the fault lies with Morrow and this is the best they’ll ever get for him. I’d dare say if Rios puts up a couple of All-Star seasons back to back, it’ll be the same thing. Or, they feel they don’t have room to developed him the way they think he’ll require and the immediate needs come first.

After all, the Mariners on paper right now look like a good bet to win the AL West, and with Felix/Lee, they’ve got as good or better a one-two pitching punch as anyone likely going to the post season. But they need to shore up their bullpen to make that run, and League is a good piece for that. So maybe it is just a question of value now verses value later. Morrow might be an ace in a couple of years, but they need a fireballing righty in the pen to win now.

by dexfarkin on Feb 8, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

great points, all

I particularly agree that organizations have their own biases and can’t always see what a fresh pair of eyes can

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Case in Point

Refusing to trade Cruz Jr for Wright.

by dexfarkin on Feb 9, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

shame on you : o

he signed for $750k, i think

by ayjackson on Feb 8, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Even if you think Chavez is a worthwhile prospect...

He isn’t one that adds significant worth to the Mariners farm system. Our current outfield depth chart is insane. It includes Dustin Ackely, Michael Saunders, Mike Wilson and Prentice Redman at the AAA level, Greg Halman at the AA level and we just dealt Tyson Gillies from our A+ club in the Cliff Lee deal. At the A level, where Chavez sits, he’s competing with Denny Almonte.

Johermyn Chavez just isn’t that useful to the Mariners, who already have superb outfield depth.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At best Chavez frees up some outfield depth as trade chips.

Because all else being equal, in 4-5 years a few of those prospects would be big leaguers and some would have been dealt and some would have proved to be a bust long term. Four replacement level outfielders (Ackely, Saunders, Wilson and Redman aren’t plus starters yet) at the AAA level; for league average we only need production out of two of them. Saunders and Wilson have alraedy spent time on the Seattle roster.

Current WAR projections for our outfield depth goes as follows:

Saunders – 2.75 WAR by 2012
Dennis Raben – 2.50 WAR by 2014 (I didn’t list him, but he just finished A- ball after being a second round pick in 2008, so he’s probably at AA next year)
Mike Wilson – 0.50 WAR by 2012 (replacement level!)
Greg Halman – 2.50 WAR by 2013
Efrain Nunez – 2.00 WAR by 2015 (he just finished a season at Rookie ball, so he still has a lot of ladder climbing to in the farm system)

The Mariners just signed Gutierrez for five years with a team option for a sixth year. Essentially, we have the best defensive CF in the game locked up through 2015. Surrounding him with replacement level guys isn’t a bad deal. Chavez really isn’t valuable to us.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

look at our SP depth, yet Morrow was a target...

i project morrow to win the 2013 cy young, and be a 4 WAR player.

the point i made is that chavez added value to the deal, ask BP, who ranked him our #1 prospect at season’s end.

by Andy Mc on Feb 8, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and seriously....

“at best” frees up trade chips? read the HT scouting report.

don’t get me wrong, i love this trade and agree morrow could emerge as an ace, but it wasn’t a total fleecing by any means. league is also a great pitcher, just pray he only pitches one inning per outing, circumstances in which he is masterful.

by Andy Mc on Feb 8, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Almonte

is that the guy who lied about his age to play in the Little League World Series?

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Feb 8, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the post, it is detailed, interesting and thought provoking.

It does sound like the Jays did pick up a potential strong SP, but I cannot help but feel that he is a big risk. After reading through your analysis, there seems to be a common theme where you highlight his virtues but are forced to repeatedly conclude with a compromise for one deficiency. Maybe he grows out of it, maybe not, but IMHO, a key difference between good players and great players is consistency.

The RP League we sent you also has flashes ouf greatness. There are nights he comes out, throwing with so much velocity and movement, you just scratch your head and think “wow, this guy is unhittable. He is making a mockery of opposing batters. Why is he not ranked as one of the best in MLB?” Than he will come out the next night and get hit all over the ball park.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Morrow suffers from the same performance volatility as League. I hope not. It would be great for the Jays if he does evolve into a Lincecum, and perhaps that is what the team is wagering on. But for now, I would have to conclude that it is a bit of a long shot.

by aagoodfella on Feb 8, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's fair to call Morrow's evolution to Lincecum a longshot.

But his immediate upside is Jon Garland, as the last part of the analysis points out. More importantly regarding “volatility”, if you look at Baseball-Reference’s career splits, Morrow is basically horrendous in games he loses. He has a 13.08 ERA in losses over 21.1 innings in 12 appearances. But in no decisions, he’s still above league average with a 3.13 ERA over 126.1 innings (!) in 95 appearances, and in wins he’s even better: 2.94 ERA in 33.2 innings of 8 games. His 4.00 ERA is basically a very small sample size of horrendous appearances (less innings than both ND and W) inflating beyond their actual impact.

And yes, the compromise with Morrow is always his control. If the Blue Jays coaching staff can find a way to reign in his pitches to his college level (which were better than Lincecum’s), he’s an absolute stud. In terms of development and the frequent rotation between bullpen and minors, Morrow is for all intents and purposes still a prospect. But despite that, he’s proven to have more value than League in half the time at the big league level.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you don't think that's a bad thing.

Despite a career ERA of 3.84, Burnett’s career WAR looks like this:

2002: 4.6
2003: 0.1 (he only appeared in 4 games)
2004: 2.9
2005: 5.1
2006: 3.2
2007: 2.6
2008: 5.5
2009: 3.1

Ugly in its inconsistency, but still above +2 every year with an upside over 5. I would take a +2 pitcher any day for middle of the rotation, and a +4 for the top of the rotation.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me guess

Contract years in 2005 and 2008?
Check.

"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.

by craig in calgary on Feb 8, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Morrow is exactly what we needed...

High risk/high reward. Chavez was a major piece in this trade, don’t fool yourselves. League, if used correctly (single inning appearances ONLY), will dominate the West. The price was not low at all.

That being said, Morrow, with some seasoning and intensive coaching, could very well gain some serious ground just from a consistent job as a SP. If he cuts his walk rate down to a manageable number (below 4 BB/9), he could develop into a true ace, which we need.

I have said it before…

Morrow/Drabek/Marcum/Stewart/Cecil could be the best rotation in baseball by 2012.

Now let’s all bow our heads in prayer…

by Andy Mc on Feb 8, 2010 2:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My prediction for 2010 is...

9-9
150 IP
4.25 ERA
110 K
1.50 WHIP

BUT my feeling for 2011 (way in advance, I know) is

15-10
180 IP
3.90 ERA
150 K
1.40 WHIP

and 2012 could look like

17-9
210 IP
3.70 ERA
200 K
1.35 WHIP

Join me in prayer.

by Andy Mc on Feb 8, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That is actually a fair developmental line.

When I was originally casting predictions for Morrow and arguing with friend about the deal, I projected Morrow to be someone’s #2 starter by 2012. I thought you sold him short on ERA, until I remembered you played in the AL East—where ERA goes to die.

I’m projecting Morrow to take a greater step towards his upside this year, but in terms of long-term value, our 2012 lines would probably look pretty similar.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well, i'll be rooting for him

most likely even harder than you are. lol!

by Andy Mc on Feb 8, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Mariners had traded away King Felix this offseason, and in a separate deal got a fireballer

-let’s call him Brendan Merrow-would you be satisfied if he only turned out to be Jon Garland?

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Feb 8, 2010 3:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

And that's why you use —

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Feb 8, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stupid comparison.

Felix is not a prospect, has been permanently out of the minors for 4 years. Johermyn Chavez is at present only a prospect.

League and Morrow right now are a push in terms of value out of the bullpen, except Morrow has greater upside and slots into the rotation eating 5-6 innings per game on average, on occasion going further. League is a 1-2 inning spot reliever at best. Call me when League no-hits the Yankees for 7.2 innings to tell me about “upside.”

If we traded, say, Denny Almonte, an A-ball outfielder projected to join our big league club in 2014, threw in Mark Lowe for shits and giggles and got Jon Garland in return, sure I’d be happy. Especially if Jon Garland was still under team control for the league minimum and wasn’t eligible for arbitration for two more seasons. Wait, I’m talking about Morrow again. Damn facts getting in the way.

Thanks for playing, though.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we get it, you like Morrow. But Jon Garland in the AL East is arguably worth very little

and we have many young pitchers who are better. So, no, if Morrow turns into Jon Garland, that will not at all be a good result for the Jays. It is the potential that he will be substantially better than that that makes it a good deal for the Jays.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

also

in your excitement to call someone stupid, you completely misunderstood. Torgen was talking about the Jays trading away Roy Halladay (hence his reference to “in a separate deal”), not comparing Chavez to Felix.

Thanks for playing, though.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jon Garland is Jon Garland no matter where he pitches.

He may not have the same W-L record in the AL East, but that’s not because he’s a worse pitcher. He throws the same stuff; his defense, park factors vary as does the teams he faces. But he has posted, over the course of 10 seasons, a 4.74 FIP playing for the White Sox, the Angels, the Diamondbacks and the Dodgers.

I don’t think you get that evaluating pitcher talent is constant across all lines. A pitcher doesn’t suddenly become a different pitcher because he plays for a different team. Not to mention Garland is actually statistically better versus the AL East collectively than he is against any other division in baseball (when normalizing for AL East prouductivity).

And as this is a separate trade, it has NOTHING to do with you losing Halladay. It’s still a stupid comparison. I can be happy with one trade—say, the hypothetical Almonte+Lowe for Garland deal—while still hating another—say, Felix for a handful of prospects. Morrow is not replacing Halladay. It’s a separate deal, and it has to be evaluated on those merits. Say you didn’t trade Halladay and still got this deal. This deal stands on its own and is still a good deal.

Be dissatistfied with your offseason, with your front office, whatever, for losing Halladay. (Or heck, be dissatisfied with Halladay for wanting to leave.) But that’s a cumulative evaluation. I am talking about the Morrow deal in a vacuum.

You get it; I like Morrow. But you don’t get it; pitcher talent evaluation isn’t predicated on win-loss record or ERA. Those have factors including lineup and defense. The pitcher is always the same guy barring injury or some drastic meltdown.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the Morrow deal is great

because he is nothing like Jon Garland. And do you really think a 4.74 FIP for the Dodgers equals a 4.74 FIP for the Jays? No way. Because hitters parks and tougher competition in the AL East, a pitcher who has a 4.74 FIP pitching for the Dodgers is not going to be a useful pitcher for a team like the Jays — of course he’ll be the same pitcher, but it’s not a very good pitcher, and the Jays have much better options. Nice job demolishing that strawman, though.

the Jays’ offseason has been just fine. the Morrow trade was very good. I liked the Halladay trade. I have no idea why you are jumping to all these conclusions, but none of them make any sense.

What I really can’t abide is your ridiculously overblown condescension and arrogance. Do you think you are the only person here who knows that “pitcher talent evaluation isn’t predicated on win-loss record or ERA?” My three year old daughter knows that.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But the Morrow deal didn't happen in a vacuum

If the Morrow deal could have happened without the Halladay deal I would have been much happier. And if Halladay had a place in the rotation, and now he does not have that place and Morrow does, then Morrow is replacing Halladay, by definition.

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Feb 8, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And is it even a separate deal from Seattle's end?

Do the M’s trade Morrow if they don’t trade for Lee?

They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.

by Torgen on Feb 8, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No

And if Brandon League emerges as an important piece (as important as a relief pitcher can be) in a Mariners 2010 playoff (world series?) run, I’d say that this deal worked out for the Mariners, whether or not Morrow pitches well for the Jays. Also, Torgen, did you know that pitcher evaluation isn’t predicated on W-L record? Them derned sabrmetricians jest cain’t seem ter mek up deir derned minds!

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Feb 8, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Big massive TL;DR

But I read it anyways, and it still manages to scream ignorance.

-League is inconsistent but Morrow is not.

Relievers tend to do that, especially ones that pitch like a starter. Someone please remind me why he never had one start in the majors despite originally being brought up as one?

-He’s healthier

You didn’t get the memo where he suffers from constant elbow soreness likely which is likely a result of his very poor pitching mechanics? League on the other hand, has an isolated incident which resulted from bearmode arms made during the offseason. The control, they can hope to fix, the clueless slider, possibly, but rebuilding mechanics will take years, and I doubt any team not supporting Mark Prior’s comeback is going to even bother attempting it.

Morrow reminds me of this guy; A pitcher with bad mechanics who saved his career by pitching out of the bullpen, only worse.

-He’s younger

I didn’t know 8 months was that big of a deal.

-He has more upside

No more upside than League if anyone bothered to give him a chance in the rotation, one he never got the chance to blow. Yeah, Morrow has more upside, no doubt as a result of manager oversight, because League could easily become a Brandon Webb who throws harder, which has ridiculous value in its own right.

At this point Morrow is just another fireballing prospect with control problems who had a few great outings and was average otherwise, and these pitchers are a dime a dozen in the history of baseball. Add in the fact that no one educated on the subject sees him holding up in a rotation, and his future starts to look a lot like the bullpen.

Give League a chance in the rotation, and there would be no doubt who won the trade.

by Opisgod on Feb 8, 2010 6:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think if there was a chance League could be a starter that somewhere along the way someone would have tried it.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Feb 8, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Constant elbow soreness?

Morrow spent a grand total of 15 days on the DL in 2009 due to shoulder tightness. At the beginning of ‘08, he was optioned to AA ball but was recalled 17 days later when Erik Bedard (not Morrow) was put on the DL. Since analyzing Morrow’s mechanics, Driveline has posted a statement

However, I regret to say that I can’t envision too many more posts here, especially of the variety that involve armchair analysis of a pitcher using 30 FPS game video. I’ve come around to thinking that I need to re-develop my thoughts on pitching mechanics, and while I still strongly believe in a lot of what I’ve said before, rehashing the same thing over and over again isn’t all that productive.

And the analysis you linked to stated “while his pure stuff might not be as good [as Lincecum’s], it’s certainly not far behind.” That’s what coaches are for. You have three years of coaching Morrow to pull him to the same investment level as League. If you think your pitching staff did a good job with League, give them a better pitcher in Morrow and see what happens.

Compare that to League who spent a stint on the 60-Day DL and missed almost all of ‘07, throwing rehab starts at practically every level of the minors. League is more than a year (not 8 months) older and has spent 2+ years more than Morrow at the big league level—he debuted in late 2004, Morrow in early 2007. He has no college service time. League’s rotation chances are minimal.

by harkening on Feb 8, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Jays staff knew what to do with mechanics

Then why is Marcum still using that herky jerky delivery? I could care less if he pitches like Roger Clemens if he can’t stay off the DL, teaching a pitcher how to attack a batter is only a small part of the story. Morrow hasn’t spent lots of time on that list, but I recount at least 2 instances where elbow problems knocked him off 1-2 starts in 2009, and the odds are those will get more frequent until something breaks, look what happened to Marcum.

League spent time on the DL in 2007, not because he was injured, because he overdeveloped his arm muscles in the offseason and it killed his velocity and altered his delivery into something awkward, it was hardly an actual injury.

by Opisgod on Feb 8, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Then why is Marcum still using that herky jerky delivery?

Because it adds about an inch and a half of movement to his slider, a sinking motion on his heater and kills an extra 2-3mph on his change. Different pitchers need different things, and all not all ackward deliveries are instant injury worries.

by dexfarkin on Feb 9, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I always wanted the Jays to try League as a starter too

but they never did and I’m not sure if it’d still be possible.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Feb 8, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Conspiracy theory

This deal was so good for the Jays that, as I’ve said before, I really think that it was secretly part of the Halladay deal. The pressure was mounting to announce the deal, yet, both organizations wanted to take the time necessary to cross their t’s and dot their i’s on two guys that have had some arm troubles recently (or to give more time for M’s front office to pick a second prospect). So they announced the Halladay deal, knowing that the Morrow/League thing would follow.

Mariners got off to easy in the Lee deal. And Jays got too easy in the Morrow deal.

by REMO on Feb 8, 2010 7:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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