Divisional Realignment?
by Tom Dakers on Mar 10, 2010 6:00 PM EST
in Analysis
56 comments
Bud Selig's 'special committee for on-field matters' are talking about a "floating realignment" idea:
teams would not be fixed to a division, but free to change divisions from year-to-year based on geography, payroll and their plans to contend or not.
I don't know, sounds pretty strange to me.
One example of floating realignment, according to one insider, would work this way: Cleveland, which is rebuilding with a reduced payroll, could opt to leave the AL Central to play in the AL East. The Indians would benefit from an unbalanced schedule that would give them a total of 18 lucrative home dates against theYankees and Red Sox instead of their current eight. A small or mid-market contender, such as Tampa Bay or Baltimore, could move to the AL Central to get a better crack at postseason play instead of continually fighting against the mega-payrolls of New York and Boston.
So we are asking teams to state to their fans that we aren't going to try to make the playoffs, the pay off for the team is a few games of good attendance. Wouldn't the other games have no attendance at all?
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Re-alignment
This is dumb. I think you kind of hit on the main point, IMO, here:
“I guess my worry is that they are trying to solve a temporary problem. The Yankees have had runs of being dominate before, I’m not sure that just because the Yankees and Red Sox have been great the past 10 years or so, that they will be forever.”
The point is, the problem isn’t the divisions it’s competitive balance. Nobody would complain if one club was better every year 100% b/c of how the organization was run. But today, so much of the game comes down to money. And certain teams, no matter what, will never be able to compete with the big cities like NY, Chicago and L.A. I’m not saying I have a perfect solution, but the point is re-alignment is not the answer. It is an attempt to fix a symptom, but it ignores the problem.
bang on. Do not apply a permanent fix to resolve a temporary issue.
Yea, it is tough competing in the AL east but the Jays still won 2 consecutive world series in 1992 – 93 and outpaced the Yankees in attendance for years surrounding those wins.
There is more than one way to skin a cat and if the Jays have to be resourceful to defeat the Yanks, than so be it. If your adversary has a formidable strength (payroll), than you do not try to beat them where they are strongest. David slew Goliath with a sling, he did not grab a sword and shield and try to swing it out. If Jays cannot beat Yanks with payroll than find another way. Getting Selig to jigger re-allignment seems a little whiny to me, not to mention impractical and unstable.
That said, I am still all for the elimination of divisional play in favour of round robin across the league. I prefer to see all the talent across the league.
by aagoodfella on Mar 11, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
That is by far the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
Allowing teams to chose their division based on whether or not they plan on competing?!?!?!?!
Wow.
I’m all for the Jays leaving the AL east, but not for this stupid arrangement.
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Mar 10, 2010 6:25 PM EST reply actions
So hypothetically speaking
There could be 15 teams in the AL Central and none in the ALEast or AL West.
Good idea Bud.
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Mar 10, 2010 6:32 PM EST reply actions
Someone at work sent this to me. I could barely believe it.
They keep saying stuff like having teams move to East to rebuild, But what the heck stops NY or Boston from wanting to split up to increase their chances by not playing each other so often.
If they want to get rid of the imbalance you have to even things out. Either expand or contract the league to either 28 or 32 and then have an even 14 or 16 teams in each league. Then have a more balanced scheduled. Or a completely balanced schedule and get rid of the divisions. Then people can’t complain about the division seeding about playing NY or Boston so often, Everyone plays everyone.
I know it would be hard to do because of travel costs, but if they are trying to get to “fair” that is the starting point
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Nothing New
But yeah, this isn’t the way to restore competitive balance. If you’re going to do a tiered system with teams moving, and have the unbalanced schedule, it should be more like football in Europe. Have an AL Premiere league and an AL Division league. It’s based on record, split into ALP East/West and ALD East/West. Winner of the ALP East, West and wildcard go into the playoffs, and the winner of a one game playoff between the winners of the ALD East and West goes in as well. With the unbalanced schedule, teams play either Division or Premiere teams most, and Premiere makes it easier to reach the playoffs but against harder competition. At the end of the year, the teams are re-aligned based on winning percentage.
You know there's a far easier way to restore competitive balance.
It’s called cost control ie 1) a hard salary cap at the major league level, 2) pre-determined entry level contracts for 1st to 3rd rounders and 3) international drafts with pre-determined entry level contracts.
This type of divisional realignment is dumb and the person that thought this through should be fired… or hired to run the Mets;)
I definately agree on entry level contracts. This slot system isn’t working.
But a hard salary cap would be hard to implement at this point and the MLBPA would never go for it and out of the sports leagues that is one the better run ones.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
the sadest part of actually implementing this
would be watching the Jays opt to remain in the AL East year after year after year for the extra attendance money
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Indeed, the example plan for the Indians
is what the Jays are actually doing. Is their problem that it’s not fair to the Indians that they can’t just because they’re 2 degrees west?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I don’t even really care about the Red Sox and Yankess being in the same division as the Jays. But why is Tampa Bay in a Division with Toronto? I think there are some geographical issues with Tampa and Toronto being in the same division.
Its crazy to think that Detroit isn’t in the same division. It used to be such a good rivalry.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Yeah but can Tampa be in the Central? I can see the Dilemma.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
The whole National League/American League screws up the whole geographic logic to divisions in baseball and turns all the divisions into big crapsticks!
The solution is elementary my dear Hugo...
Bring the DH into the 7 hitter league (7 hitters + one walk + one automatic out) then have a 100% balanced schedule with ALL TEAMS – then the top 16 (or so – I’m willing to negotiate) go into the playoffs.
Simple, sweet, just like me.
I actually don’t mind the 8 team playoff format.
The only way to expand the playoffs would be to shorten the season and some teams that won’t compete regularly for playoffs won’t go for that.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Actually now that I think of it even Boston and NY would most likely not for that. Because they could lose home dates and revenues…..
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
If they make the play offs
They’ll get those home dates anyway… with the added buzz of PLAYOFFS!!!111
Ball.
Yes but depending on the playoff structure that would most likely be less games. At least I would think so.
I know Playoff games are worth more, but there would be some trade off.
I guess thats for the accountants to figure out.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Agreed with the 8 team format.
Run it the same as the NHL pretty much, still can have the division rivalries but give some more deserving teams a chance to compete in the playoffs, and it would be more fun to watch, having more teams in the playoffs.
by bowling_kid25 on Mar 11, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
So are the first playoff series best of 3? 5?or 7? and the next round after that?
Because if its 7 that seriously shortens the season.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
I really don't like the idea of 16 teams making the playoff....
because then it’s like the NHL where only the really crappy teams don’t make the playoffs. There ought to be some incentive to put together a good team.
Anyone else dislike best of 5?
This is a side issue, but just wondering if anyone else dislikes the current best of 5 series for the opening round of the playoffs? It has always bothered me. It just doesn’t have the same feel as a best of seven, with the first team to get some momentum often able to win it. Just seems unfair to me to have teams fight 162 games to make the playoffs and then get bounced on a short playoff series – why not give them the extra two game and make it a full series? The logic for a shorter series was because of the addition of the wildcard – but it’s not like you have two semi-deserving wildcard teams playing the best of five, it’s also division winners who play it and get bounced. It just feels wrong, doesn’t allow for the swings in momentum and comebacks you get in a true seven-game series.
Random thought of the day.
The Backyardigans is a fun and entertaining show and stops the girls from crying.
It may be the greatest thing ever.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
haven't seen that, will have to check it out
Anna only likes spiderman and x-men tv-wise, so far. Her knowledge of even the minor characters on the shows is rather frightening.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
well, that and the muppet show
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Talk about a complicated solution to an obvious problem
I’m not even going to comment on the details of this “floating realignment” idea as it sounds half-baked, ill-conceived and overly complicated.
What’s the real problem here? A competitive imbalance largely due to a persistently large payroll gap. So why propose a “non-economic” solution to what is first and foremost an economic problem?
The answer is to follow the NHL and bring in a floating team salary cap (both minimum and maximum) that is adjusted every year based on league revenues. Then you let the teams compete on who can actually build the best team within a consistent range of salary, rather than who can spend the most money. As a fan, I’d rather see that then what we have now.
Another option, again from the NHL (and NBA), is to have the playoff teams come from the top performers across the league, rather than the division. This help solve the problem of a strong third-place team in a division (think AL East) missing out in favour of a weaker team that happens to lead another division. I wouldn’t be at all opposed to having the top four teams in each league make the playoffs regardless of division.
And if we did that, let’s go back to two divisions for scheduling purposes, bringing back the Indians and Tigers for starters into the AL East where they belong. I miss the Jays old rivalries with those teams. The Brewers too though they’re happily in the NL I suppose.
If you just have top 4 teams make the playoffs you can’t have division because everyone in the league has to have the same schedule.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Actually, the NHL does give the first team in each division a playoff spot, then the rest based on conference. So how about go back to two divisions in baseball, give the top team in each division a playoff spot, then have the other two teams based on the next two teams with the best records? At least that would be one more team than currently that makes the playoffs based on their record rather than their division finish.
You still run into a problem of people complaining who they are seeded in the division with then.
Yes it does get rid of the one grouping, but if you are going to do that why not just have the one league and have a balanced scheduled and the top 4 teams make it. Or perhaps a top 6 teams make it with the top 2 getting a bye and the next 4 having a preliminary 3 game playoff to make it into the Semi finals.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
I wouldn’t necessarily object to one league, a balanced schedule and the top four teams making it. But I still think there’s something to geography and the tradition of east vs west. It’s really the advent of the Central divisions that I’ve never really loved. So I’d be happy to go back to two divisions – East and West – even if that means that a weaker division winner gets in ahead of one of the otherwise top four teams in the league.
One more thought
Damn, said I wasn’t going to comment on this floating realignment idea, but the more I think about it one thing is really pissing me off. I can’t stand the idea that rather than addressing the competitive imbalance head-on, MLB’s talking about somehow handicapping things to put the losers together and give them an easier ride. The worst thing in sports is when there’s a perception of a tarnished win – such as that team played in an easier division, they had an easier schedule, etc. So rather than trying to create more of that, the aim should be to avoid perceptions like that wherever possible by creating competitive balance so that a win is a win is a win. I have no interest in seeing the Jays come out on top in some sort of loser second division. I want to see them beat the best team end of story. Surely that’s what the players want too as competitors. So MLB should address the systemic economic imbalance, create a level playing field and everyone can enjoy watching the best teams win. That’s what sport is about.
yo Bud,
@ simple steps:
1. Balanced schedule
2. Best four teams make the playoffs regardless of division.
There, problem solved. Where do I pick up my check?
I agree that's the obvious answer
except I’m still not confident that the Jays wouldn’t vote against that plan
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I don't wanna be a pain in the you-know-what but...
…the word you’re looking for is “dominant” not “dominate”.
Sorry…that kind of stuff just bothers me.
Salary Cap
and I mean a proper one. This luxury tax, soft cap crap has to go. There should be a hard cap and some sort of revenue share from TV movey to help smaller market clubs.
the problem
With a cap is you also put a floor, which many cheap teams don’t want. They like pocketing the extra cash.
by NHfishercatsfan on Mar 11, 2010 8:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If there’s proper revenue sharing, then the floor doesn’t matter. With a hard cap based on league revenue (which is how the NHL and in a round-about way, the NFL do it), and with revenue sharing, the ‘cheap’ teams will be able to meet the cap floor with money left over.
The problem is, you need owner commitment from the majority of the teams to get that system in place because to do it, there will be a player strike/lock-out. Would another year without baseball kill the game?
We are already looking at a year withoout the nfl possibly.
I like everything the way it is. The Yankees outspend but have won 1 world series since they started really spending in 2001. The Rays made it to a World Series from the AL East and the Rockies made one too. Seems fine to me.
by NHfishercatsfan on Mar 11, 2010 9:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
you are a yankee fan
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Since it was introduced, of the thirty potential playoff spots to contend for an an AL East club, all but seven have been won by either the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox. In seven of those years, it was only Boston and New York to win both possible slots. At no point during the alignment of the leagues and playoff schedules have both the Yankees and the Red Sox failed to reach the playoffs.
So when 14% of the league represents 77% of the total playoff spots for a fifteen year period, it is very much not competitive.
but when you're a Yankee fan
that’s a feature, not a bug
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
MLB Competitive Balance
The lack of competitve balance in major league baseball is primarily caused by the organization’s out-dated economic structure. Who does the latter benefit?
A) All the owners
B) All the players
C) The fans of teams which have a reasonably good chance of making the playoffs.
The only group it doesn’t benefit is the fans of teams with little or no chance of participating in post-season play.
Question: What can these disgruntled fans do about changing the current system?
Bet not one of you good folks have a single suggestion.
dexfartin's statistical analysis...
Dex, your stats are proof positive that the final MLB standings each year are becoming progressively more irrelevant. However, Yankee fans would simply label you a “Parity Pariah” which in their mind renders both your “selective” statistics and your personal opinion irrelevant.
This is the attitude faced by anyone concerned about the future of MLB in Toronto. What to do?
Stay home on game day.
B=A=L=A=N=C=E=D S=C=H=E=D=U=L=E!!!!!!!
it’s the only solution.
I don’t think that the poor excuse of travel cost should prevent that. look at the NBA: When you go on a west-coast road trip, it’s a real road trip – 3-4 teams at least.
And as for Bud’s hallucinated idea – I think that, but for ego considerations, Boston or NY should have been the 1st to move… Think of the Red Sox at the AL Central… 25-years’ domination…
Festina Lente
Major League Baseball has no problem with the Yankees and Red Sox making the playoffs each year
The only explanation for this rediculous idea is Bud trying to make it look as if they recognize big market teams having an advantage is a problem, when really Fox, ESPN, and the MLB spend every October laughing all the way to the bank. The majority of fans will tune in to a Yankees/Red Sox ALCS, but could care less if it happens to be Twins/Mariners. The MLB recognizes this and has no intention of actually fixing anything – Bud is just happy to give all us small to mid-market fans the impression that theyre at least trying to address the issue.
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