Game Thread for March 21 Jays vs. Red Sox
by Tom Dakers on Mar 21, 2010 12:30 PM EDT
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PrintI won't be around for the game today, my boy is in a hockey tournament and has 2 games way across town today. It will be great fun to watch, this is pretty much the end of hockey for this season. On to baseball for the boy.
The Jays are playing a split squad of Red Sox, the Sox also have a game at their spring home park, so don't expect many of the regulars to make the bus trip to Dunedin. Shawn Marcum is starting for the Jays. The line up:
Bautista 3B
Hill 2B
Lind DH
Wells CF
Overbay 1B
Reed RF
Snider LF
Gonzalez SS
Molina C
Brandon Morrow figures he will be ready to start the season, he says he would have pitched the other day if it was a regular season game. Dustin McGowan is being shut down for a week with a 'dead arm', which isn't something that's unusual for a pitcher to have after throwing everyday in spring, when he hadn't thrown for a long period before that. But we'll see how things go. Edwin Encarnacion is expected to play sometime this week, but then we've heard that since the start of spring.
Not much out there for Jay news this morning. There are a couple bits of news around baseball. It looks like the Tigers are ready to release Dontrelle Willis and eat the rest of his contract. And Twins closer Joe Nathan is going to have Tommy John surgery, so he is gone for the season and maybe part of next year. Twins have been rumoured to be asking about Jason Frasor.
Enjoy the game today, if it happens, sounds like there is rain in the Dunedin area. Have a good Sunday.
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that line-up seems very familiar
to what Cito has been hinting us with.
Willis
Hasn’t pitched badly this spring. Might be one of those guys if you can get for league minimum, stash him in AAA and see if his velocity comes around.
It’s by no means an authoritive sample size, but that doesn’t mean they are entirely worthless either. If he was some rookie and came in with that line, I think we’d be saying he’s worth a flyer to put in the system somewhere and see if it works out.
true, but he’s not a rookie, he’s Dontrelle Willis and we’ve seen his act for several years now and it’s not good.
Yeah, but he was before the last two years, and since the main cause is supposed to be an anxiety disorder that may be treatable (or treated), what’s the point of passing on a no risk chance at a potential mid-rotation starter?
Ricky Williams....
of the Dolphins has made a successfull comeback. Even Rick Ankiel has turned it around. I agree with you. AA should try to get Willis and get someone who is a calming influence (e.g. Vernon Wells) to mentor him.
by Muscle-Dolphin on Mar 21, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Minor League
I wouldn’t have him in Toronto, but if all it costs is a league minimum and he’s willing to start in Las Vegas or even New Hampshire this year, I’m all for that. If he’s gotten over his anxiety issue and is able to rebuild his velocity, he’s a guy you might bring up in July or August if the rotation’s been hit. Maybe before if he can bounce back to something resembling his pre-2007 form.
i'm not sure we have room for him in the upper minors
i wouldn’t give him a spot over a prospect that’s for sure
I'd pass
The Jays have more than enough young pitchers with upside to fill up our big-league and AAA rotation that I don’t see adding Willis. Also these young guys are putting together a nice atmosphere and not sure what adding Willis and his problems would do to that. As a veteran, he could have a disproportionate impact on the chemistry and it might not be good.
Willis issues are personal anxiety issues. According to the media, the Tigers’ clubhouse loves him, his work ethic, and hates the problems he’s having overcoming things. These kinds of disorders are not contagious.
Yeah but in addition to his Anxiety he has a hard time throwing strikes half the time, Which I am sure doesn’t help the Anxiety but that is beside the point.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
That started more when the anxiety issues came out. His BB/9 rate between 2003-2007 was about 3.3, which isn’t bad. Basically, and this is just based on what I’ve read, the problems hurt him trying to execute his pitches, trust his stuff, and remain composed on the mound. Which is supposed to be why he’s been hugely erratic and ineffective.
Again, if he’s not over it, it’s money down the toilet, but his approach this spring is encouraging and better than his last two. Maybe, like Greinke, he found a way to turn a corner. If not, he won’t hurt the team and it won’t take long to find out if the Tigers release him.
Wasn’t trying to suggest that Willis is a bad guy or that his problems would be contagious, I just don’t think we need the distraction of a basket case pitcher, particularly a former star veteran who’s going to attract a lot of attention and potentially unsettle the young guys efforts to gel as a group. We’ve got enough fine young pitchers who I’d rather see get a crack at the rotation if there’s an opening.
I don’t know. His upside is a lot higher than, say, Bobby Ray with about the same risk that they’ll ever return to the Majors.
I understand the reasons why someone wouldn’t sign him, and I’m not saying they’re wrong and I’m right. I just think that a low risk chance to snatch a high potential guy off the scrapheap is worthwhile when the reason he’s there isn’t physical. The best organization on the planet can solve a dead arm, but a messed up head? Maybe…
i've seen anxiety disorder up close and personal
and I’d want no part of it on my ball club.
i think you’re being a bit liberal attributing all his pitching problems to the disease.
I think it’s more likely to be the reason than him just randomly forgetting how to pitch after six years of professional baseball without any accompanying physical aliment.
Two good minor league season, two very good seasons and two decent seasons with the Marlins, and three awful or non-existent seasons with the Tigers. During his time with the Marlins, he showed pretty good control; around 3BB/9.
I think that’s why I’d take the shot, personally, is that there’s no good reason for him to have suddenly morphed into a terrible pitcher beyond his mental issues, and sometimes those can be corrected.
Trading a closer to the Twins?
If the Twins are asking about Frasor, any thoughts about what they might have to offer us?
Well Hicks is number one in their system
so forget about him. They have Ben Revere, but haven’t really understood the love there. Not much for CFers after that.
There system’s ranked 7th overall, btw.
actually Angel Morales looks the part
he’s their 8th ranked prospect and just turned 20. played in the midwest league last year.
do it AA!
Revere is projected as a top speed demon isn’t he? Like a potential healthy Jose Reyes type steal numbers?
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
I guess I should say
I understand the love on Revere, I just prefer a bit more power tool in my CFer.
I get that, but isn’t the CF position usually reserved for more speedy then power? Where most of the power usually comes from the corners as those guys are typically a bit more beefy.
Regardless I do see your point. Ideally, I think if you want a non-power all speed guy you first think of SS.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
reading the write-ups
i think i’d prefer Morales to Revere, despite Revere’s higher ranking and closer proximity to the majors
So who is our closer of the future
It seems like Frasor and Downs are trade bait or will be gone for free agent compo in the offseason.
Gregg appears to be a play on free agent compo.
League has been traded.
Carlson’s a loogy.
Jansen’s a soft tosser.
Roenicke did not impress in limited action last year.
Stewart’s still pegged for the rotation.
Accardo’s …..hey hey hey, shouldn’t this guy be groomed as our future closer? who else is there? is merkin valdez really going to make the team over Accardo? Merkin and his one (93mph flatball) pitch?
Remo put up a fanshot here with a potential young gun
Besides we have seen teams come out each year and have a surprise player that puts up all the saves. Accardo 2 years ago for instance. So in my opinion it isn’t the most necessary thing in the world to have a prospect who is pegged to be the end of the bullpen guy.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
i agree that closer is the last thing you worry about,
but if you have a guy that can do it (if his splitter’s working), then why not develop him.
Oh I am all for using Accardo, but at this point I don’t think he is staying past his free agency. He is gonna want to bolt away from Toronto as fast as possible.
We really have screwed him over, and if we dump in the minors again after the whole debacle from last year I think it just seals the deal.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
all true, but
if he put up 100 saves in his arb years, he might feel differently – he’s a hat-in-the-garbage-hat-outta-the-garbage type of guy.
that said, if he put up 100 saves in his arb years, i’d be inclined to let him walk.
Accardo might be the guy
I’ve always thought that Accardo was our logical closer of the future. Hell, he’s already been the closer in 2007 and did a great job. Let’s give him another shot.
- Roenicke is probably the closest IMO
- Collins maybe
- Farquhar is an option but arm angle still bothers me
But in all honesty, it is very possibly one of the SPs. Assuming by year end McGowan and Litsch are healthy and Stewart is knocking on the door, you have for next season as potential SP: Romero, Zep, McGowan, Litsch, Stewart, Marcum, Morrow with Drabek and Jenkins probably not too far out and Alvarez right being them (and maybe more with all your picks this year). If healthy, you almost HAVE to put someone in the pen and I think anyone on that list except maybe Romero or Litsch could be a better choice than any of the minor league RPs. Marcum was a closer in college and I think in short stints he could go from being good to being really, really good (his change is so tough). Morrow has done it before. McGowan can’t stay healthy and has the stuff to dominate in the pen. Stewart has done it in the past and when he’s on he has a great 2-pitch arsenal. Zep is another 2-pitch guy that could be extremely difficult if you don’t see him 2 or 3 times in one game. Add to that list Purcey who is being converted already and we all know has some pretty solid stuff.
How does Farquhar’s arm angle bother you? He throws from 3 different slots so do all 3 bother you?
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
b/c ...
he mainly throws from lower arm angles, much like a side-arm pitcher. As a result, he gets tremendous movement away from RHB (good) and towards LHB (bad). He did last year, he did in college. I know that in general most RHP will be worse vs LHP, but it’s not nearly as extreme as it is with guys who throw from that kind of arm angle. While he has 3 different ones, even his “high” one isn’t that high for a P.
Fair enough point.
I knew he wasn’t quite there yet because of his splits being so pronounced but if he can get that down it should be interesting.
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
don’t get me wrong, even if the splits never come down he could be a tremendous asset … Chad Bradford was a similar (abd very underrated) guy who threw from a low angle and killed RHB but was generally like 200 pts OPS worse vs LH. My only thing is that’s the kind of guy you want coming in only if he’s facing more RH and LH, rather than always coming in for inning #9 regardless of who is on deck. I’d actually be quite surprised if Farquhar wasn’t at least a RHB specialist in the majors if not a RH-side of a setup tandem with someone like Purcey.
I was a big fan of Bradford. Throwing a submarine sinker is just a devestating pitch to try to catch up to, even if you’re expecting it. Back as a teenager, we had a guy in the league who tossed submarine because of a back injury. I swear, this guy could submarine a slider away from you and still hit the outside corner. I must have had at least a dozen at bats against him, back in the days when I was a good contact hitter, and I never so much as even fouled that pitch off. Just impossible to read right.
I've heard that Tim Collins
could end up a lefty specialist in the majors, so that could be an interesting lefty-righty tandem assuming that both continue to progress.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Short Relievers
A righty/lefty combo with an average height of 5’9". I love it.
would be pretty sweet
give some hope to us little guys
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
“Justin Morneau digs into the batter’s box, looks up at the mound. He steps back up, holds up one hand for time. Collins steps off the rubber.”
“It looks like Morneau is motioning for Cito to come out to talk to him. Can we get a mike on the field, Jerry?”
“We have one down there, and it looks like Morneau is asking Gaston… ‘why did you put the godd*** batboy on the mound to pitch to me?’”
“Sorry Jerry, I think Mike Wilner just choked on his sandwich.”
I was not aware that Purcey was being molded for an RP role … interesting
by aagoodfella on Mar 22, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
we discussed it last week
he has drawn some good comments just throwing his fastball and slider in bullpen sessions.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
good news … cuz yea, he does seem to have some real talent hampered by some fatal flaws. If there is a way to work him into a specialty role where he can leverage only his strengths, it is a win-win for everybody.
by aagoodfella on Mar 22, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
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