The City's Still Aching From Your Kiss: Tuesday Banter
by hugo on Mar 9, 2010 11:37 AM EST
in News
60 comments
No game today, my bantering bretheren and sistren.
- So far, young cuban lefty Arnoldis Chapman looks to be worthy of his hype. Of course, no one really doubted his stuff.
- The Jays reassigned top-10 pitching prospects Chad Jenkins and Zach Stewart to minor league camp today. Both pitchers looked pretty sharp, albeit in very limited action, with the Jays. I'm guessing that Jenkins gets assigned to high-A Dunedin to start the season (though the Jays might be conservative and start him at Lansing) and that Stewart joins Las Vegas as part of their rotation.
- Dustin McGowan threw 2 simulated innings today. So far it sounds like everything went well. I still don't see him breaking camp with the rotation, he'd really have to move quickly. My guess is that if things continue to progress, the Jays will keep him on the DL to start the season but have him almost immediately begin a rehab assignment and hope he is perhaps ready to go, barring any setbacks, by May 1st?
- Things are really clicking so far for Ricky Romero this spring. Everyone seems to be noticing Romero's confidence, work ethic, and impressive stuff thusfar. It would be a big deal for Romero to simply avoid taking a step back in his sophomore season, but I'm starting to think he can actually improve this year.
- Brian Tallet really wants to start this season. All signs so far point to him getting his wish.
- The Drunks, responding to rumours that have been reported around here as well that the Chicago Cubs are interested in Jason Frasor, are very interested in the North Side's bevy of young shortstops. Frasor is, of course, a Second City native.
- The Tao of Stieb really does not want to hear about how the Jays are playing well in meaningless games. Fair enough.
- Cito seems to like Mike McCoy. I myself would like to see McCoy make the team.
What else should we be talking about today? Today's title, by the way, is from a song called "Goodbye Midnight" by the Spring Standards, which I thought appropriate. If you like actual country music played by actual people as opposed to airbrushed pickup truck salesmen, definitely check them out.
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Can McGowan be sent to the minors on a rehab assignment?
With McGowan out of options, this MLB.com article suggests the Jays might DL him to buy a little more time rather than having him make the team. What I’m wondering is does that just give us time to have him work on the sidelines somewhere or can we actually send him to the AAA team on a “rehab assignment” to actually pitch in real games? And if so, how long can we send him down for?
yeah he can go down on a rehab if he's on the DL....
But he does have to be hurt to be on the DL, the team can’t just say he is injured. Teams are just allowed to hide players on the DL, using it as a way to get around roster limit.
Short rehab?
So I’m guessing that it’s only a short rehab that’s allowed (15 days?) as the player is supposedly healed and just going down for a little work before being reactivated.
He'd have to be on the DL...so that's 15 days.
He’d have to agree to say he’s injured. I’m guessing the team will try this but if he’s throwing smooth and easy late in camp and if he says he’s fine, they’d have a hard time doing it.
McGowan has already said he doesn't mind making the team out of spring if he's not ready
I think you get 30 days max on a rehab assignment
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Moving some Toronto pitching built around Frasor for one of the Cubs higher level SS prospects would be a very nice addition to the farm. Hak-Ju Lee seems to be the key one to target, since Castro isn’t going to be moved for an unestablished closer and a young midrotation guy. Mills and Frasor might be the right fit for that kind of move. Lee is supposed to be maybe a year or so away, gets on base and has a lot of speed, which could solve two big holes in 2011-2012.
McCoy would be a nice benchplayer, especially if he’s not terrible when they see him in the outfield. Having a guy who can play both IF/OF decently, is a legitimate basestealing threat and can get onbase at a good clip with a bit of power is pretty much your perfect benchplayer.
So, deep in the spring, who’s still available on the FA market that’s worth taking a minor league contract flyer on?
yeah, Lee looks like a good one
he’s just 19, had a very nice first pro season in short-season ball, and he looks like he’s got a decent chance to be an excellent player on both sides of the ball. supposedly he’s got a ton of speed, a fine line-drive bat, and solid defensive skills with the range and arm to stick at shortstop. The final piece would be power, but at 6’2" and 175, you could easily see him grow into some serious power.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
You’re not getting Lee for Frasor. It just won’t happen. If they were willing to give up a top prospect, they’ll likely make a run at a more established guy like Heath Bell. RP are VERY rarely traded for very much, lets be realistic about this. I’d be absolutely floored if the Cubs have up a prospect like Lee for Frasor.
That’s why Mills and Frasor was listed at the starting point. Castro currently is ahead of Lee, which is why they might sell short to get two guys they can use immediately.
Mills doesn’t have a ton of trade value, lets be realistic. If someone came in here and said they would trade 2 or 3 mediocre prospects for one of our top guys we’d scream bloody murder too.
Agreed
Frasor might be something to start with, but Mills is going to get you pretty well squat, I’d think.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
Frasor, Mills and Sierra might sound like it would work.
by syc on Mar 9, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
You would be a fool if you turned down Frasor, Mills and Sierra for your 4th ranked player at SS
by syc on Mar 9, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not their 4th ranked player at SS! This is just foolish. Read my post below. Most people suggest he IS the long term SS, with Castro shifting to 2b and they don’t have any other SS prospects … unless you are counting Flaherty and Lemaieu who are NOT SS.
Well Teriot is number 1, Blanco number 2. This castro at number 3 and yer boy Lee at #4.
by syc on Mar 9, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
NHL does it every trade...its called draft picks. But seeing as you can not trade picks in MLB adding prospects to a trade is just like tossing a second round pick to get the guy u want.
by syc on Mar 9, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Lee isn’t one of the Cubs top guys. He’s fourth on the depth chart in his position, and far behind Castro. He barely makes their top ten, but that would be the equivalant of use screaming bloody murder if Perez or Farqhuar was getting shopped. He’s got talent and is a lot more valuable to other organizations than he is to the Cubs.
Mills is a middle to back of the rotation guy that’s withen a year of cracking an MLB rotation. He’d also start as one of their best pitching prospect and the only close to ready lefty in their system. Frasor can slide into the closing role immediately, and serve any role out of the bullpen if a better option comes available. So I don’t see it as unrealistic as you think. Both players fill key holes in the Cubs organization in return for a good prospect who is a surplus for them.
Calling Lee 4th on their depth chart is ridiculous, flat out ridiculous.
Lee was rated as their #6 prospect by BA, #6 by Sickels and given the grade of B … same as D’Arnaud and better than guys like Jenkins. That’s not barely top 10 in ANY system. And how is he 4th on the depth chart? Lemaieu and Flaherty have almost no chance of sticking at SS, and Lee is the best defensive SS they have. Like Sickels suggests, it’s atcually likely that Lee will push Castro to 2b, b/c the Cubs have no 2b of the future.
And to back this up … some reports from BA before the draft:
D.J. LeMahieu
“Scouts …also think LeMahieu now has no chance at playing shortstop, as he has looked more methodical and less explosive. The Tigers concurred, moving him to second base at midseason after they had trouble turning double plays. His arm has regressed, too, and at shortstop he would need a full windup to make longer throws.”
So he was moved off SS already in college, with scouts basically saying: he’s a 2bman.
Ryan Flaherty
“However, scouts feel Flaherty’s range is not good enough for him to stay at the premium position into the pros, and he will most likely have to make a move to second base, which he played for Team USA last summer.”
To say Lee is behind these guys on the depth chart at SS is flat out wrong. Neither have the tools to stay at SS even if they have the bat, which is still in question.
Nobody ever said Lee was behind them. we said he's 4th on the list at SS which he is
by syc on Mar 9, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
And if you’re putting him behind Theriot and Blanco that is even crazier. Of course he’s behind them technically b/c he’s not in the majors. But as I mentioned, you could make the same argument for our guys … like Drabek, Alvarez and Jenkings who are like #20-#30 on our SP depth charts with all the guys AA signed. That doesn’t mean we should trade them away. That’s nonsense.
Jenkins for Lee?
I know Jenkins can’t be traded until June or July, but it’s an interesting question.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
That doesn’t mean we should trade them away. That’s nonsense.
If we thought we were going to contend this year and the pieces we felt would put us in the running were offered? Of course we would.
I’m reading what you’re saying. My point is the same, the centerpiece to any deal you are proposing is Frasor. Mills, Purcey etc don’t have trade value. You don’t give up a top prospect for a RP. That’s what I’ve said from the beginning. You keep trying to suggest Lee is buried on the depth chart, but that doesn’t mean you trade him for a RP. Frasor is NOT worst a top prospect, regardless of the situation the Cubs are in.
The Cubs had all but said Flaherty is getting moved to 2B by December, and they like his bat. Castro has been said over and over to be landing at SS. So I’m glad that what Sickel’s thinks, but I think the opinions of the organization take priority. As high as you are on Lee, the guy is at least a couple of years away in the organization from reaching the Majors, and they have options in front of it.
It comes down to the needs of the organization at the time. Teams sell low if they feel they need something immediately, and if the Cubs are feeling squeezed, there’s plenty of justification to back the chance they might feel pressured to overpay on pitching. Frasor is just a reliever, but he’s an excellent AL East reliever with closing experience, and Mills is a lefty near ready for a team with suspect starting pitching and no lefties in the pipeline. Trades are a lot more complex than just how their prospects’ letter rankings stack up against each other.
I agree
but the Jays have plenty of other pieces and AA has shown he’s not at all afraid to give talent to get talent. He’s been talking about acquiring a young shortstop all offseason. I’m not saying a deal will get done, but getting a SS will be AA’s focus.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Of course. But not for Frasor, you’re not getting someone like Lee for Frasor and “insert mediocre prospect(s) here”.
no, I wouldn't think so
but if the Cubs are already interested in Frasor to solve their immediate need for a late-inning reliever, my guess is that AA will try to use that to sway the Cubs to a deal for a SS that, without the need for Frasor, the Cubs might be more hesitant about. It would still have to be an objectively reasonable deal, though, I agree.
While it’s true that the Cubs have mentioned moving Castro for Lee, they could trade Lee and have plenty of other options at second (namely, their other shorstop prospects who won’t stick at SS), a position much easier to fill than shortstop.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Maybe.
But to be honest I think people are too obsessed with the idea of trading for a SS prospect anyway. You’re so early in the rebuild, who knows? If you have to sign or trade for one later, fine. Plus, how many draft picks do we have in the top 2/3 rounds this year, like 7 or 8? Yeah, if you can get a SS get one … but if you can "only" get an OF or 3b, boo hoo I guess. Just please, no more 1b.
I don't think the team has a dire need to trade for a SS
but it makes sense to look around, albeit with the understanding that, in general, the quality of the talent coming back is more important than the position.
As J.P. Ricciardi can attest, it’s not like drafting an all-star SS is an easy thing to do.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I don’t think he necessarily tried. Plus, I’m not 100% ready to give up on Justin Jackson yet … he does 2 things really really really well (defend, draw walks), 1 thing absolutely horrendously (strike out) and 1 thing poorly but it’s way too early to tell (hit for power, he’s so young). I’m not saying we should bank on him or anything … but to your point about developing SS, I think step 1 is probably not to promote them too fast especially if they didn’t play well the year before (broken record, I know).
Definitely don’t give up on Jackson. He has a ton of potential and I think he needs an injury mulligan for last season. He wasn’t bad at all in 2008 (.238/.340/.368 with 39 extra-base hits) considering he was a teenage shortstop in his first full season of professional ball.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Er, Jermaine Dye??
Would there be anyone else even worth giving a glance too? Not that Dye is getting much looks this late…
Ball.
No clue why he hasn’t gotten a look. Heck, I’d take him for RF over Jo-Bau any day of the week. Give him a one-year deal and let him rebuild a bit of value.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
He's been selling himself as a first baseman too so...
maybe platoon with Lyle at 1B? He hits lefties kinda better at least.
Ball.
a couple of notable SS prospects and teams in search of starters/relief
1. Brewers – I’ve had Alcides Escobar on the radar for a really long time now. He is major league ready right now. He has 4 tools minus the power, and would fit great at the lead off spot.
2. Dodgers – Dee Gordon projects to be a Jimmy Rollins type player. He is about 1-2 years away from the majors which would be great for the Jays as that will be the time all our prospects come full circle and are playing in the majors at the same time.
3. Cubs – Starlin Castro projects to be a ‘star’. A lot like Alcides; can field, can hit for average, can hit lead off and steal bases.
All 3 teams need one or two starters, especially the Brewers.
HEADING STRAIGHT FOR THEM, I PRESS DOWN MAH GUNS!
The problem is that all three of those guys aren’t being moved by their clubs without serious return. I’d wager the price would be along the lines of Frasor, Romaro and a Cecil type to start the conversation.
Now that Nathan has a broken wing...
Might the Twins be interested in Frasor?
Hum…I wonder how much they’d want besides Frasor for that Mauer kid – I hear he can catch a bit and his bat could come on with a bit of work from Cito!
Let's go Romero
I’m with you Hugo on Romero – I’m looking for him to build on his season last year and really make a claim to a leadership role on the starting staff. Whether he succeeds or not we shall see, but I’m hopeful.
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