Brian Tallet and Jay Lose to Angels.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 17, 2010 4:38 PM EDT in Toronto Blue Jays Game Recaps

Want the good new first? Lyle Overbay hit a double in his last at bat. He did swing the bat better today. Brings his average up to .085. Not too much else for good news. Shawn Camp pitching 2 scoreless innings counts, I guess. 7 of our 9 batters had a hit. One each for 7 hits on the game.

The bad? Our 'innings eater' Brian Tallet fought through 5 innings, giving up 5 hits, 2 homers, 1 walk, 4 earned. His ERA after 3 starts sits at 6.11 and he has given up 2 homers in each start. It is hard to eat innings when you are giving up 2 homers each start.

Jason Frasor didn't help, giving up a run in his inning of work, after a swinging bunt that wouldn't go foul and two strikeouts, Jason gave up a walk, single and walk before a fly out that Vernon made a nice catch on. Kevin Gregg also gave up a run, his first of the year in the 9th.

Also bad were Jose Molina who went 0 for 3 and Randy Ruiz, 0 for 4 with 2 strikeouts. I only saw his last at bat, but the guy has to learn not to chase pitches well off the outside. If he does, we have a player, if he doesn't, that's all he is going to see. Mike McCoy was picked off second base, after stealing it, wrecking what looked like a chance to get back into the game. Alex Gonalez was thrown out at the plate in the 8th, a run that would have helped. Mike Napoli did a great job of blocking the plate but if Alex had gone in feet first he would have scored easy.

No Jays of the Day today, Shawn Camp came closest at .076 WPA. Suckage Jays are Tallet (-.155) and Randy Ruiz (-.142).

I'm not sure if it is the lack of playing time or not but Ruiz looks like he is too anxious to hit one out every time up there.

Oh and new Jay Fred Lewis got his first at bat with the team. He struck out to end the game.

Tomorrow Ricky Romero (1-0, 1.80) tries to get us a win to salvage one game out of the three against the Angels. Ervin Santana (0-2, 6.94) starts for the Angels.

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Ruiz looks uncomfortable and Overbay looks too comfortable. If there was a pure platoon maybe this would get rid of this situation. Ruiz looks like every at bat is going to be his last.

I like McCoy’s scrappiness to his game, but him getting picked off was the turning point of the game. That and Gonzalez getting thrown out at home. Gonzalez needed to be more aggressive on that slide, tried to be too cute.

I think the Jays could learn something from the Angels. They killed them with blasts early and blooped them to death, with aggressive baserunning at the end.

Frasor is stuck in a bad spot. He’s trying to be too finesse now that his stuff is getting knocked around, causing too many walks. Its a tough way to pitch.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 5:19 PM EDT reply actions

Tough one today,

If Cito pulled Frasor so quick why wouldn’t he be quick to pull Tallet?

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 5:19 PM EDT reply actions

aside from the whole Starter vs Reliever thing?

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 17, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions

It shouldent matter if he's a starter or reliever. Tallet is costing us games just like Frasor did. Send a pb guy down and stick tallet there. Call up a real starter not a cheap knock off verson.

I’m getting tired of this team not playing its beast players because Cito has no clue what he is doing.

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Cito's not that bad Im sure he knows what he's doing

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions

It matters cause the starter has to eat innings or the bullpen will be decimated

You can’t take the starter out before the 3rd inning unless he REALLY sucks or you blow the bullpen for future games; unless there’s an immediate off day forthcoming.

Tallet didn’t suck quite enough this start to be taken out, although in general he sucks.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

No I agree with you. My point was that Cito was so quick to take Frasor out of the stopper role, yet he gives Tallet a million chances to suck.

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Thats true

Thats a good point. I would argue that Frasor should never be the closer to begin with, but thats another topic. I think last year was an aberration for Frasor, because his stuff to me does not translate into a 2.5 ERA. But probably its unfair Cito to pull him this soon, although its probably ultimately the right decision.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I think rasor won the closer role bacause he had a better spring then Gregg. Plus Cito is more familar with Frasor which helped him. But right now Gregg is the better option at Closer. But would like both to split time.

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Either way, its not a good back end of the bullpen by Major League standards. Neither of these guys would be even be setup pitchers on a .500 team.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions

They should probably let Downsy close.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I would like Down to close some games too. But Downs is the only left hander in the bullpen. I agree that Frasor and Gregg are not top of the line pitchers, but if we can use them as a kind of two headed dragon. Both guys would be more effective in IMO

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed. Pitch the hot guy since none of them are good enough to exclusively close or setup (late).

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Speaking of which, I wonder when Carlson gets the callup? They need another lefty in the pen. Accardo or Valdez can move along.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Donno

I would drop either/or (probably Accardo), bring up Carlson, put Downsy in the closer role, and if he does well, trade him at the deadline for some good value.

Hopefully Frasor could post decent numbers in 7th/8th inning setup and we could trade him to. The Diamondbacks for example are in SERIOUS need of bullpen help. They’ve blown 3 consecutive saves in the ninth inning! Rangers could give up a good prospect too if they’re in the hunt.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Minnesota was looking for a closer too before the season

Joe Nathan gone for the season. But to maximize trade value, one of Downs or Frasor has to compile those save totals for one of the aforementioned teams to give up a good prospect. Don’t think frasor will do it but Downsy might.

And since these guys arnt in the long term plans, get some prospects now before they leave at the end of their contracts

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Ideally what I have would like to have seen is out training camp is, Morrow be the closer, Downs/Gregg as setup, Frasor/Janssen/Carlson/Camp as middle relief.

Problem would be is trying to find another starter, which seems difficult for some reason.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions

As I was saying in the threads 2 days ago when Morrow was pitching...

He absolutely should be in the bullpen, according to what I saw. He threw 2 pitches the whole start; 3 if you count a curveball, which was thrown only a handful of times. He didn’t have the control or velocity to be effective as a starter in the way A.J.Burnett could. Morrow was throwing basically 92-92 MPH all night.

I’m ok with giving Morrow the benefit of more time to see if he can add another pitch and increase velocity. He did after all have a dead arm in ST. It also is not good to break the organizational plan, which was to allow Morrow to start, after only 2 games. He should be given at least 10 or 12 to change course IMO.

But if things dont change for him, he’d be better suited there.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I don’t see Morrow ending the year as a starter. Either the Jays will see the error of their ways or he’ll end up on the DL.

Seattle had him as a closer, but then converted him because JJ Putz came along. Same thing happened to Joba Chamberlain where the Yanks tried to convert him to a starter. Smart move putting him back in the pen. Some players are built to be starters, others are built to be relievers.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup, looks that way to me

If Morrow only really has two pitches, they can be best leveraged in the bullpen unless. Very few pitchers can be starters with such limited repetoire; either they need a trick pitch like Tim Wakefeild or overpowering stuff like Burnett to be effective. I’m not seeing that from Morrow, but its too early to tell for certain.

But assuming you are correct, moving Morrow back to the bullpen will allow him to increase the velocity back to the mid 90’s and two good pitches are enough for short relief. In fact, he would probably thrive. And we’re in desperate need a long term solution as closer.

But I wouldn’t throw the towel in just yet as the starter, as the Jays should follow through with their original plan to at least say they gave it a shot; because an effective starter is more value than effective reliever.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

if the Jays move Morrow to the pen now

they are essentially conceding they lost the trade. I don’t see that happening.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 17, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Why are they conceding that?

If Morrow ends up being a very good closer, they could still win the trade. This shouldn’t be about who the ‘winner’ is anyway.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions

of course it shouldn't

but the Jays gave up a talented but erratic late-inning reliever with filthy stuff and a nice looking outfield prospect (not something they have in spades) for Morrow so they could try him as a starter. I just don’t see them abandoning that plan after two starts.

I’m not suggesting that I expect Morrow to be wildly successful as a starter. But I also don’t see him necessarily becoming a dominant closer. Either way, I think that having committed to their plan, the Jays have to give Morrow at least half the season in the rotation.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 17, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions

“Either way, I think that having committed to their plan, the Jays have to give Morrow at least half the season in the rotation.”

Totally agree.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Seconded as well

There are some guys that don’t deserve half a season before conceding the errors of your ways (Tallet and Overbay spring to mind), but a young pitcher I think you need to let him plug away. At the least you give him humble-pie and let him focus on what is hurting him against real MLB batters in the coming months.

"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."

by wroth91 on Apr 18, 2010 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I think by only having one Lefty they are keeping downs from being the pitcher he can and should be. (Set up or Closer)

Carlson should be up soon I would hope. Valdez is most likely on the way down if that happens.

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Ruiz looked bad on the K's

the one I saw he struck out on three pitches, chasing the outside 0-2 pitch that he had no chance at all of hitting. But he did hit the ball well in one of his at-bats, it just happened to be right at Willits.

I don’t know how long we can keep running Tallet out there when we have equal or better options at AAA.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 17, 2010 5:28 PM EDT reply actions

Scouting is one the the big differences between the minors and the majors, isn't it.

Ruiz is going to have to learn not to chase outside or learn to enjoy bus rides I would think.

I don’t know the answer to the Tallet question. Seems like he is pitching much like you would expect him to as a starter. I wonder what the team expected from him? You would think one more good Triple A start from Cecil or Mills and they’d have to make the change.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 17, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Tallet is filler until someone is ready at AAA. I have no problem with Tallet, he is what he is. He’s experience. The problem the jays have is in Tallet and in Morrow they have 2 starters that should be relievers on good teams. Tallet should be long relief and Morrow should be short relief.

I just don’t think they want Cecil to come up and fail, they have a lot riding on him.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Sample size

Ruiz has 12 AB this season. Prior to today’s game, he was OPS’ing over 1.000 for the season. He hit a monster shot against one of the AL’s best pitchers last night.

He’s gonna have games like this, and when he strikes out he looks bad because he takes such a big cut at it. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s one of the major reasons front offices have written him off as a sure failure in the majors.

And I don’t think it’s such a secret in the minors after a decade of playing there that Ruiz has a tendency to strikeout and to chase from time to time. Thing is even pitchers in the majors make mistakes and leave some over the plate from time to time (Weaver), and when they do, Ruiz also has a tendency to make them pay.

I ain’t getting off the bandwagon just yet. I hope Cito isn’t either.

by REMO on Apr 17, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Ruiz is the nuclear threat at the end of the bench. I don’t know if I like the thought of him playing a lot as he has a lot of holes in his swing, but when the jays are in the need of a bomb at the end of the game, he’s definitely a good player to have around. I think he could be a good PH threat, if Cito knows how to use them properly. I think Ruiz is just struggling to figure out how he fits on the team right now.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Does he remind you guys of Matt Stairs almost?

Swing from the hip (figuratively) and just pray for a connection, because when he does connect, it’s GONE. Seems a little bit like that to me.

"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."

by wroth91 on Apr 18, 2010 5:12 AM EDT up reply actions

I’d bet that if Eveland continues to hold up Tallet is back in the pen (and Accardo sent to AAA or even outright released b/c he’ll whine about it) when Zep is healthy. Maybe, MAYBE I can see Cecil getting the call but only if the Jays are content to send Zep to AAA for a while. I just think they are wary of giving Mills or Cecil the call, a couple appearances, and then possibly demoting them or sticking them in the pen right after.

by jayjay on Apr 17, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree that wouldn't be a good result

I’m just not sure how long the Jays will continue to run Tallet out when they have guys with major-league experience pitching so well in the minors. And while I know the team likes Zep, I’m not sure why he’d be a magic bullet when Cecil and Mills aren’t enough to dislodge Tallet.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 17, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Honestly, that would be Cito’s call, as I could much more easily see him turn to someone who pitched well in the majors last season (the other 2 did not) and didn’t really “lose” his rotation spot this spring. Cito is nothing if not loyal to his players, so I could see him thinking Zep deserves his spot back when he’s healthy. If AA disagrees he could try to force Cito’s hand by demoting Accardo and calling up Mills/Cecil anyway.

by jayjay on Apr 17, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree that will/would be Cito's mentality

but I don’t necessarily think it should be his call.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 17, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Tallet pitched well in the majors last year? Not really. He was a decent fill in and stop gap and a damn useful player to have but his stats and peripheral stats were not good.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 17, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought he meant Zep, not Tallet

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 17, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Oops read that wrong. My bad sorry JJ

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 17, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Strangely enough -

I feel confident wrt tomorrow with Romero pitching. And to think that he is only pulling in $400 000.00 !

by Muscle-Dolphin on Apr 17, 2010 5:28 PM EDT reply actions

That income will change, heck, I would love 4K

Romero has been a stud this year and should win AL pitcher of the month at this rate. I just worry for him near the end of the season when and if he starts wearing down.

by Joey P on Apr 17, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions

He should be stronger this year and hopeful he learned to adjust with the hitters.

Last year he really faded down the stretch but with another year to prepare he should know how to get through the entire year this time around.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 17, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Realistically, if he fades, it's not the end of the world

So long as he doesn’t get injured in the process. It’s a heavy workload to shift onto him suddenly, so it’ll happen probably. But if he puts up good numbers until then, that’s a very good step forward and promising for the next season.

"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."

by wroth91 on Apr 18, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions

If anything Fred Lewis looks like a leadoff hitter. Its tough spot to have him pinch hit at the end of game. I’m interested to see him start. It looks like Jays are going for a more scrappy team which is good to see.

One of EE, JoBa, or Snider looks like they are going to be stapled to the bench for awhile. I wonder what happens when Hill comes off the DL.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 5:50 PM EDT reply actions

Snider wont be benched
hes up here to play, at least that what they said

by FenixL on Apr 17, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope he plays all year but with Cito I can't be 100% confident

"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."

— Bob Uecker

by syc on Apr 17, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions

If he doesn't play, AA will send him down

by REMO on Apr 18, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think its out of the realm of possibilities Snider could be sent down, but I’m not seeing a spot for EE at the moment, can’t hit, can’t play D, bad combo.

Lewis LF
Gonzalez SS
Lind DH
Wells CF
Snider RF
Buck C
Overbay 1B
Bautista 3B
McCoy 2B

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions

We just might

score more runs than the A’s & Royals with that lineup; maybe even the Baltimore if you throw in Hill.

by zeusmith on Apr 17, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions

What can you do, they’re still the Jays. I’m just happy that they brought in Lewis, they need an SB threat. But no doubt about it, this lineup needs Hill’s bat in the middle of that lineup to push everyone down a rung.

by The Playa on Apr 17, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions