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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

It's a Sunny Day, Big Fight! Cobra versus Mongoose! Big Fight, We Can't Wait Forever - Wednesday Links

Hi everyone.  Either you love Shonen Knife, or you hate them, or, most likely, you have never heard of them.  Either way, I thought today's title was appropriate given the over two-day lag for which we're waiting for our second Cobra versus Mongoose (though which is which, I couldn't say) of the season.  Here's some linkeage to tide you over.

 As for Vernon, we've been really impressed with the fluidity of his swing so far this season. He's not dropping his hands and he's coming through the hitting zone quickly and on a nice level plane. And if he keeps doing that, there may be room for in our cold cold hearts to welcome him back.

Tao also very wisely pointed out that although Travis Snider struck out three times, he was working the counts, got to full counts a few times, and fouled off plenty of pitches.   

  • The Southpaw thinks the Jays are good for 83 wins this season.  I haven't seen anyone else predict a better season with any real basis.  Finishing .500 is essentially meaningless but in a rebuilding year it'd be pretty encouraging.  It's certainly possible with a bit of luck, and at the risk of engaging in the Monte Carlo fallacy, with the way the Jays have underperformed  their pythagorean record the past few seeasons, you can't help but think they're due for some good luck. 
  • I'm a big fan of the Go Jays Go tumblr.  They always find good pictures that manage to sum up the day better than my rambling ever could.  This pretty well must have summed up how Wells was feeling on Monday.  Still, at the risk of being overly skeptical, he hit decently on the road last season too.  I want to see how he holds up in the Big Smoke (a putrid .633 OPS last season). 
  • On the topic of Vernon, I loved this article over at Sports and the City entitled "Why You Should Believe in Vernon Wells."  There were times last season where I felt like Eyebleaf and myself (certainly not our fine commenters) were the only Vernon fans left.  Obviously the frustration of Jays' fans was well justified, but it'd be nice to see Wells get off to a hot start and ride it out to a successful season.  He had a nice catch in CF Monday too. 
  • The always-great Ghostrunner on First wants you to just accept the Citosity to which we're just going to be subjected this season.  He also rightly points out that jumping on Jason Frasor after blowing one save is dumb. 
  • The Drunks are not looking forward to watching Brian Tallet pitch tonight.  They are, however, looking forward to heckling Alex Rios at the home opener.  And they rightly point out the intense, weapons-grade douchiness of Bud Selig. 
  • I'd say something nice about the Blue Jays blogger panel posts that the National Post is running on their new Jays' blog, but they didn't ask us their questions.  I think we can all safely assume that it is Tom's fault.  Seriously, though, good stuff there. 
  • Jordan Bastian, that notorious slugabed of Jays' reporting, is finally getting off his lazy, marathon-running, new-parent-being, zillions-of-nuggets-of-Jays-news-per-day-posting keister and earning his paycheck, planning on writing up things learned from each game this season in a post-game feature called Covering the Bases.  Definitely worth checking out. 
  • If you are still on the fence regarding Dirk Hayhurst's book the Bullpen Gospels, and my rambling but glowing review didn't convince you of anything other than the fact that I've got issues, perhaps the impressive showing for the book so far will convince you to get your copy right away.  It is presently #39 on Amazon.ca's Hot New Releases list (31 on Amazon.com's), #55 overall on Amazon.com, #113 in Canada), and getting uniformly great professional and customer reviews.  This will probably be more effective if you don't look at any of the other books that your fellow Amazon customers are buying.  Wow.   Still, it is a great book. 
  • Also, check out the rosters of our minor league affiliates, and chime in the conversations there.  I'm moving this to the top but linking to those just so if folks want to post general stuff, it'll be in the general thread here and not OT. 

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Wells does seem to have the off one year and bounce back the next year over the past 5 or 6…..

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I am cautiously optimistic

It was only 1 game and that Texas pitcher seemed to have no ability to keep the ball down in the strike zone.

"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.

by craig in calgary on Apr 7, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

he pitched pretty well other than the two home runs, though

not like he was getting lit up, although the Jays’ lineup is a little weak.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well ignoring the opening game completely. I am just looking at the stats from the past 5 years. He goes 1 bad to mediocre year to above average/good year the next.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see Scoot had a rough day yesterday in the field.

In other Boston News, I liked reading this from Big Papi after his 0-7 start

“(Expletive) happens. Then you guys talk (expletive). Two (expletive) games already. You (expletives) going crazy. What’s up with that, man? (Expletive). There’s 160 games left. Ain’t that a (expletive).”

"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.

by craig in calgary on Apr 7, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Boston media is crazy, though

Big Teix has started 0-9 and I haven’t heard anything yet.

Boston media truly are the most insane when it comes to baseball.

Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.

by Jevant on Apr 7, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah thats strange…. although he has scored twice and has one sac RBI on a fielders choice.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cito

I dont think we should JUST accept that Cito is going to be potentially costing us games because of how he is set in his ways.

It’s bad enough that this team is going to be losing games cuz of the lack of talent. We don’t need our Manager working against us too.

by syc on Apr 7, 2010 11:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Pffft where you do think you are? Montreal?

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

tin soldiers and Beeston’s coming?

by ayjackson on Apr 7, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It sucks, but he isn’t going anywhere until after the year.

Especially given the context of the year with the whole rebuilding. Even if the team goes on a godawful run it isn’t like the media can call for the managers head. They will just shrug and be like well they are supposed to be pretty bad this year.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You and me both....

just think how nice it will be next year. It is sort of like banging your head against the wall, when you stop it feels good.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I don’t see that happening. AA would most likely want to bring in his own manager, but has given Cito’s situation with the organization and the fact that he and AA have worked together before this is a bit of a send off.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one saw Tallet being a number 2 until it happened...

I just want to squash any idea of it and kill it. Then burn it. Then grind the ashes into the ground.

If he thinks he can, he’ll want to.

Ball.

by Casusby on Apr 7, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Order of rotation doesn’t really matter too too much…. I was pissed he was in the rotation at all…. confused as to why he would be put there to break up Marcum and Romero…. considering that was already a Righty Lefty combo…

But regardless I get the feel that the organization trusts AA for this job (at least at the moment) and I think he would want his own manager just like every other GM who takes over a job. Personally opinion of course but thats what I think.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, the order doesn’t matter, but it’s something no one saw coming at all. I’m just not putting a lot of weight into what’s percieved to be the truth.

Naming a new manager can’t happen soon enough.

Ball.

by Casusby on Apr 7, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

The organization will say “We are in a rebuilding mode and are working towards the future”

If he is still playing the kids the media won’t really be able to say much.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is.

But then AA can worry about other things and then focus on a new manager later on.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Part of the trouble is

we really aren’t playing many ‘kids’, most of the lineup is older players. Rotation isn’t rookies.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok but again you can’t do too much. The only real beef people could have is Tallet and possibly Eveland taking spots away from Cecil and maybe Mills?

I thought we all pretty much agreed that Wallace/Drabek/Stewart and JP Arencibia were not quite ready to start the year at the bigs and considering we still have Overbay on contract…

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn hit post too soon.

And given the fact that we seem to have a ton of middle of the rotation guys at the moment it didn’t make sense to rush our younger pitchers.

We got Buck for a 1 year stopgame for JP and Wallace will most likely be here next year or sooner when Overbay is gone.

Drabek I see maybe coming up for Sept. Callups, and maybe a longshot to start in the rotation next year (I am not sure on this because I haven’t checked on the contract status of our pitchers for next year and it depends on some other things like McGowan and Listch coming back).

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was calling September too but Now im leaning towards him coming up around the ASB or before.

Some ST scouts already have him being better then anyone in our rotation. If he murders AA I think they will push him through pretty quick.

by syc on Apr 7, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its possible I guess. I just don’t see it happening that quick. If it does that means he has been lights out and its a good thing so I will be happy to be proven wrong.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe tallet’s placeholding for him?

by ayjackson on Apr 7, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

As nice as it would be I dont see Eveland holding up for the entire year I think before all is said and done Tallet and Eveland will be out and some combo or Cecil, Zep, Drabek will be in (possibly Listch and/or Mcgowan depending on the time of year and their rehab status)

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm hopeful about Talent not starting all season

but Cito likes him a lot, that’s a large hurdle to clear.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh Love it.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brian Talent ! WOOO! Rock out!

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well what you see is my very limited skill with MSPaint.

Thats the about tops of my photo editing ability

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah no kidding….. but I am trying to remain positive about it.

Who knows maybe Tallet has an all-star CY young season in him.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa… what the hell was in my coffee this morning…..

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hm For reference.

None of Tallet, Marcum, McGowan, Morrow, Litsch or Eveland are signed past this year, granted they are all arbitration eligible and Toronto still owns the rights to some of them.. Could be interesting.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

From cot’s
Spreadsheet here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tlGuOwsSqqOBS4H6hAg-Q_Q&output=html

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing

Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.

by Jevant on Apr 7, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

true, but from the "will Cito step aside early" point of view

he’ll see it as 35 wins at the half-way point. C’mon Tom, you have to think like a Gaston to beat a Gaston.

by ayjackson on Apr 7, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shonen Knife’s cover of ‘Daydream Believer’ is one of the most unintentionally hilarious songs ever.

by dexfarkin on Apr 7, 2010 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

very true

but I wonder if it is actually intentionally unintentionally hilarious

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

It’s got that Cibo Matto vibe.

by dexfarkin on Apr 7, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I shouldn't draw attention to this, but

I predicted 89!!! wins at the Battersbox. There was loose rationale. My expectations are certainly closer to 75 wins, but I decided that there was potential for both the offense and pitching staff to perform above average and potential to be lucky, so I bet the farm!

On offense, I think there’s potential for DH to put up a .900 OPS, for LF/CF/2B/3B/1B to put up an .800+ OPS, for RF to put up a .750 OPS and SS/C to put up a .700+ OPS. I don’t think this is a “stars align” projection, but less than an “odds on” projection. This would likely result in an average to above average offense. We’ll say 2.0 GAF (games above five-hundred).

For pitching, I think it’s possible for the starting five to have an average ERA of around 4.50, which would likely be good for an average to slightly average starting rotation. We’ll say 1.0 GAF. The bullpen looks solid at both ends, depsite game one failures. If it stays together, I’ll say a 1.0 GAF.

Add in 4 wins of luck and we have 8.0 GAF or 89 wins.

Note: This science is rudimentary and dangerous and shouldn’t be practiced at home.

by ayjackson on Apr 7, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I am glad to hear that about Snider. I did not see the game, but looked at the box score and Snider’s numbers were not pretty. Good to hear that he is improving in PAs.

by aagoodfella on Apr 7, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah he still had the 3 strikeouts but a much better approach.

It was really frustrating to see 3 and 4 pitch strikeouts last year where he just ripped at every pitch. He wasn’t recognizing off speed pitches at all.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

THANKS

for the link, boys. Much appreciated.

Vernon will make believers out of all of us!!!!1

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Apr 7, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I believe!

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You, Hugo, and me, buddy.

And I forgot to respond to your tweet yesterday, but I’ll be back in Toronto by mid-June. Let me know when you’re heading to Toronto for a game. Doc’s return, perhaps?

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Apr 7, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would be awesome.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't boo Boo!

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Apr 7, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

In my new post i linked to John Lott’s article about Vernon’s charity work in Texas. the take away- he’s a Hall of Fame man even if he’s an ordinary player.

that said, I expect a regression to career norms at least this year.

Also, I guess it’s gone up elsewhere here by now but Adeiny is in the house! Hopefully we get a press conference soon.

by TamRa on Apr 7, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

that was a great article, I agree

Wells’ work off the field is very impressive

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ya, just saw Lott and Bastian's articles

Absolute class act. As much as his play might frustrate me, I don’t think I could ever do anything but shake his hand.

"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."

by wroth91 on Apr 7, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Random Thoughts

The Southpaw thinks the Jays are good for 83 wins this season. I haven’t seen anyone else predict a better season with any real basis. Finishing .500 is essentially meaningless but in a rebuilding year it’d be pretty encouraging. It’s certainly possible with a bit of luck, and at the risk of engaging in the Monte Carlo fallacy, with the way the Jays have underperformed their pythagorean record the past few seeasons, you can’t help but think they’re due for some good luck.

This is just crazy talk. How exactly do we win 7 more games than last year, when the division generally became more difficult AND we lose Roy Halladay/Marco Scutaro and basically replaced them with zeros. I just don’t understand the logic of some people. I know fans of the club tend to be overly optimistic, but look at the damn facts.

Another thing I don’t get is the optimism with some of the young pitchers we have. Compared to that of other teams, it’s really not that good. I don’t think Zep is going to be that string, I’m sorta lukewarm on Cecil at this point, McGowan is still hurt and has a sketchy track record, and Mills is Triple AAA material. I still have some hope that Litsch can be a solid No. 3 guy however. The ultimate point is, outside of Drabek, the Jays pitching is not very strong and the minor League system is not very good on aggregate still. The good news is that it has been improving, but still vis a vis other clubs we still have a ways to go.

I know we all want the Jays to do well – Im a lifelong fan – but getting overly optimistic will lead to dissapointment. The truth is, the Jays are nowhere near competing for anything, and that it will take a few years of farm system growth to star making traction in the division. Predicting the Jays win 83 games is like predicting the Padres will win the NL West.

And 1 more thing; WTF are we wasting a starting rotation spot of Brian Tallet? He’s basically a two pitch pitcher whose repetoire is lackluster at best. He doesn’t throw hard; he’s a 4.50 ERA guy at his best. Why not give the rotation spot up to a kid to develop? Perhaps that’s the plan when Zep gets back?

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Overly optimistic?

PLAY….. wait for it….. OFFS!!!1

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you have to be willfully pessimistic

to not think the Jays have good young pitchers. To the extent that the minor league system is weak, it’s all about position players, not pitchers. And you must also consider the fact that while the Jays’ system has not been one of mlb’s “sexier” farm systems in the rankings, it has consistently graduated useful major league players.

Drabek, sure, but also Cecil, Marcum, Romero, Stewart, Morrow, Alvarez, Jenkins, McGowan, Litsch, Zep, Mills. All ace types? All bulletproof? No, but from that group I think it’s a safe bet that the Jays are going to have good starting pitching going forward.

I also don’t disagree that this year’s opening day roster is worse than the 2009 Jays. The 2009 Jays, Millar and all, actually were not a bad team, particularly considering what happened to their pitching staff in 2008 and over the offseason. But there will be improvements along the way this season. More importantly, the 2009 Jays were unlucky. Their pythagorean record was 84-78. The point is that if this team is worse but gets a bit of luck, finishing .500 isn’t out of the realm of possibility. It’s not necessarily likely with the tough competition in the AL East, but no one said it was.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball America just came out with the 100 Best Prospects List of All Organizations. The Jays had 3 guys on that list: Drabek (25), Wallace (27) & D’Arnaud (81). That’s it.

I’m encouraged by the fact that AA is committed to rebuilding the farm system, and has hired tons of quality scouts to do that. Also encouraged that Rogers has affirmed their commitment to winning, and will provide the budget necessary (within reason) for the front office in which to maneuver. I’m just saying this will take time, and I generally find the expectations of some people to be wildly optimistic.

I guess i can be in charge of being the voice of reason, good or bad.

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes but does Cecil and Snider still qualify for that list? Don’t think so.
And in recent years the Jays have graduated Lind, Hill and Litsch as well.

Not to mention Baseball AMERICA usually tends to discount players in the Jays system not that Im bitter about that, I honestly don’t care but the Jays have developed useful players

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus

There is 30 teams and on a list of 100, 3 would be right about how many they should have, including 2 in the top 27.

"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.

by craig in calgary on Apr 7, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that being said I do recognize that the Jays were behind many other teams in terms of farm system. All of which I think is a side effect of not going over slot and not putting the money into scouting.

The Halladay trade gave us a jump start to the system.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Course the other half of that

is saying the division got more difficult. I’m not sure I agree. The Yankees really only got a year older, the Red Sox much the same. The Orioles could be better and the Rays could be better maybe, but as a division I’m not sure it will be much better. I think will is a little optimistic, I’m guessing 76 games. But being optimistic isn’t a bad way to live life.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure Cecil would qualify even if he was available to be.

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last year he was 72
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2009/267700.html

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

And for the record I think Cecil may develop into a decent #3 type pitcher. He’s got the stuff to do this. But he doesn’t have the control necessary to pitch well or consistently enough at this point; at least based on what I saw last year. Hopefully he can refine his control and pitch with more confidence – he just might end up being pretty good

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im not saying I expect Cecil to be an ace. But a #3 pitcher with upside that could lead to a #2 pitcher is pretty decent pitcher. So when you say you are lukewarm on the guy it confuses me. It leads me to think that maybe the initial expectations whatever it was caused by (Media, Team, Blogs whatever) was just too high.

Yes he did seem starstruck last year and lost his control. Particularly against Boston in the big series that started the Jays losing streak early in the year, but the kid was only 22 at the time (he turned 23 in July of last year).

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

in 2000 no one figured Roy Halladay as an Ace...

go back 3 years and no one calls Cliff Lee an Ace. Saying player a player doesn’t look like an ace means little.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have turned my opinion!

I now expect Cecil to be the left handed Halladay, Anything less will be a disappointment.

(Too much?)

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

just a little....

I think the point was more, anyone that thinks they can pick out an ace from watching a dozen starts of a pitcher is a fool.

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right….

PLAYOFFS!!1 WOO WOO!

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

heck

most folks don’t even have to see a pitcher once before they write him off as a “back-end” or “#3 starter”

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

we’re all the voice of reason in our own mind, haha

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

 finishing .500 isn’t out of the realm of possibility. It’s not necessarily likely with the tough competition in the AL East, but no one said it was.

- Well, the Southpaw just said it was, from the first link on this thread.

That aside, I’m just not especially bullish on the group of pitchers the Jays have vis a vis other organizations. Actually, let me rephrase that: I’m not especially bullish on the group of pitchers WHICH IS MAJOR LEAGUE READY. I can get fired up about Drabek & Stewart (too early to predict Jenkins & Alvarez IMO) but the Zep’s and Cecil’s and McGowan’s not so much. Morrow has the dual question mark of control/injuries although his stuff is excellent and Eveland is twice an organizational cast-off. Now I’m not saying some of those aforementioned guys won’t be useful 4th or 5th starters or bullpen guys, but no one stands out as front of the rotation type material, save for Drabek AT THIS POINT.

And really it’s those front end guys who make all the difference, especially in our division. Any and all organizations have a plethora of guys who can potentially step in and be 4th or 5th starters; its the front end pitchers who’ll ultimately be the difference in whether the Jays will compete. And I’m just seeing too few of these guys right now.

And I’m not seeing too many position players vis a vis other organizations who will be standouts AT THIS TIME. Looks like Wallace has a chance and D’Arnaud in a couple of years, but that’s it really. The Jays are definitely behind the Orioles in farm talent right now.

Although i’m a Jays fan, i have to say it like it is. I’m down on them now, especially the quality of the young pitching. Its not good enough. Just my opinion!

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes and the Orioles have finished below the Jays in the standings for how many years now? They should be below them….

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its like how the Rays were so stocked with young talent. Happens after being bad for so long.

The Nationals look poised to finally stop being the laughing stock of the league in about 2-3 years because there is finally alight at the end of the tunnel with the new management and the good young players they have coming up.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

an ace and four #3 starters

is a pretty good rotation. And I think the Jays have better than that.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the Southpaw just said it was, from the first link on this thread.

actually, if you had bothered to read the linked post, you would know that isn’t what he said at all. I quote:

I won’t extend this post to go into detail right now, but my quick & dirty analysis of this team, in terms of the potential for runs scored and allowed, makes it a slightly below .500 team on paper (irrespective of the multitude of forecasters openly speculating about 90+ loses) and I’m going to extend that a bit and suggest perhaps a bit of karma for all the years the under-preformed their expected results. I usually make my predictions with the understanding of +/- 3 wins, but I’ll say up front that this prediction is at the top of that range. My usual prediction would be 80 wins (i.e. anywhere from 77 to 83) but I’m gonna call it 83 wins this time – with the caveat that that’s my high-end guess.

But why would the self-appointed “voice of reason” do something tedious like RTFP before commenting on it

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay but

saying a team is “slightly below .500 on paper” isn’t the same thing as saying it is “likely” they will finish above .500, which is the mistake you made when you dropped in with "that’s crazy talk" and "I know fans tend to be overly optimistic" without even reading the post where he explicitly says that it is his optimistic projection.

 self-appointed voices of reason who tell us not to be “overly optimistic” so we don’t get “disappointed” = concern trolling.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

AT The end of the day

He still predicted 83 wins, and yes, even 80 wins in pretty wildly optimistic IMO. Theres absolutely no way the Jays are finishing at .500 in this division with the amount of holes in the roster and inexperienced pitching.

Yes, I affirm my ‘wildly optimistic’ claim. The Jays will be fortunate to win 70 games this year. I’ll stand by my prediction of 67 or so.

Look at any of the major sports books. The over/under is 71.5 with HEAVY juice on the under. I agree with that.

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's perfectly fair

I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a long season. I predicted 75 wins myself.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really not a practical place to elaborate much on my reasoning but in brief, it’s like this – everyone cites the starts Doc gave us that need to be replaced, and they do. but there’s also an equal, no greater, number of horrible horrible starts (when combined) that will need replacing.

The combination of the two sets of starts adds up to a somewhat below league average pitching – pitching that, in my estimation, we should be able to get out of some combination of Zep, Cecil, Morrow, et al.

When the whole calculation is done, IIRC, it implies – on paper – that the Jays would give up about 800 runs.

A similar calculation on offense, giving Wells and EE a regression to the mean (from below) and Hill and Buck a regression from above and assuming a modest improvement in Snider gives something between 770 and 800 runs, depending on your assumptions.

Without taking time here in this very awkward place for a dissertation, that is how I came up with “slightly under .500” for a potential pythag.

obviously injuries and such can impact that, as can under-preforming the pythag as they did in a serious way (again) last year.

but I always predict pythag because no one can predict what luck and injuries and fluky circumstances will do for or to a team.

by TamRa on Apr 8, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Last time I checked

Having an honest opinion was not trolling. This is a free-opinion blog correct?

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what a "free-opinion blog" is

but one can express one’s opinion without contrived concern that “overly optimistic” people are going to end up “disappointed.”

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I personally don’t care how people feel at the end of this season. But it just goes to reason that if many people are overly optimistic about the expectations of the team, their apt to be disappointed when the expectations arn’t met.

It’s common sense.

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

their apt to be disappointed

It’s common sense.

wow

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, I know..

There’s a syntax error in there; it should be they’re.

I admit, I don’t spell check my posts.

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyway, to answer your question, yes – opinions are welcomed. condescension is not.

we’re all baseball geniuses here.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah it's not a 'free opinion blog'

it is a moderated blog. Informed opinions are generally excepted, as long as the people expressing them don’t feel the need to take shots at others while they express the opinion. There are rules here

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Positive News:

Hechevarria will be in Dunedin by the end of the week according to his agent.

by Muscle-Dolphin on Apr 7, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah someone threw up a fanshot about it.

About time, We have been waiting forever for the signing announcement I will be glad when it is finally done. Maybe they will give us his real age.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good News Indeed!

For years and years, the Jays farm system has been, for the most part, in the bottom tier of major league baseball. The reasons were mainly threefold: 1) usually the Jays never finished quite low enough in the standings to get lottery type selections (Top 6 pick); 2) The Jays were almost completely non-existant in the international amateur free agent market; 3) Riccardi & braintrust didn’t pick particularly well. Sure they had some extremely nice selections (Lind, Hill, Marcum) but really not many relative to other organizations that panned out. Our drafts have been below average on aggregate.

The signing of Hechevarria is extremely important, if for no other reason, that the Jays are FINALLY in the hunt for top international amateur talent. We need to spend in order to get the system up to snuff. I’m so glad the Riccardi ship has sailed because he always half-assed the rebuilding process – never committed to system yet never building a ML roster which was truly good enough to compete. In other words, mediocrity ruled for far too long.

by zeusmith on Apr 7, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLBastian
Cito: “Let me tell you this right now, Overbay is going to play against left-handers. So, why would I pinch hit for him?”

You know…. my annoyance is growing….

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I mean seriously come on. I don’t want to criticize this move as much because of Overbays defensive aspect to staying at first. But if you aren’t going to pinch hit him against Lefties at least the majority of the time I have to seriously question your motivation to win.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if thats the case why in the name of Steib is Ruiz doing on this team. We would be better off with an extra friggin Waterboy!

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

do not underestimate the importance of staying hydrated

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 7, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

with high quality H20?

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 7, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Course I think the reason why Ruiz is on the team

is he is as cheap as anyone and they have to have 25 men on the roster

by Tom Dakers on Apr 7, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gaaaaaaaaaator-aaaaaaade

Anyone?

"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."

by wroth91 on Apr 8, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

winning in 2010 isn't the goal,

so maximizing Overbay’s value takes precedence

by ayjackson on Apr 7, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep watching him struggle against Lefties is making it better……

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Apr 8, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

why would putting him in situations where he is likely to fail

maximize his value?

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 8, 2010 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great list

Thanks for the round-up of the blogs – I’ve bookmarked them all. That said, after many years in the online wilderness, having found this place this year, it’s Blue Jays nirvana. Don’t know how the Post missed including you guys in their Jays blogger panel.

by jabalong on Apr 8, 2010 7:12 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm just guessing

it had something to do with SB Nation’s affiliation with Yahoo sports, but I could be wrong.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Apr 8, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

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