Jays Trade Alex Gonzalez for Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes
by Tom Dakers on Jul 14, 2010 12:09 PM EDT
in Toronto Blue Jays News
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PrintHere is the press release:
BLUE JAYS ACQUIRE SS YUNEL ESCOBAR FROM BRAVES
The TORONTO BLUE JAYS have acquired SS YUNEL ESCOBAR and LHP JO-JO REYES from the Atlanta Braves in exchange for SS ALEX GONZALEZ and minor league players LHP TIM COLLINS & INF TYLER PASTRONICKY.
ESCOBAR, 27, is batting .238 with 12 doubles and has posted a .334 on base percentage in 75 games with the Braves this season. The 6-2, 200lb. right-handed hitter owns a career .291 average with 87 doubles, 29 home runs and a .368 on base percentage in 446 career games with Atlanta (2007-2010). In 2009 he was selected as the Braves Most Valuable Player by the Atlanta BBWAA after batting .299 with 26 doubles, 14 home runs, 76 RBI and posted a .377 on-base percentage. Among all active shortstops in the Majors, the Havana, Cuba native ranks 4th with a .364 career on base percentage (min 1500 PA).
REYES, 25, has made just one appearance with the Braves this season. In 12 games (10 starts) with the Gwinnett Braves of the International League (AAA), the West Covina, California native is 1-5 with a 5.70 ERA, 15 walks and 50 strikeouts in 47 1/3 innings of work. Reyes has been optioned to New Hampshire of the Eastern League (AA).
GONZALEZ, 33, hit .259 with 25 doubles, 17 home runs and had 50 RBI in 85 contests with the Blue Jays this season. The Cagua, Venezuela native is a career .248 hitter with 281 doubles and 131 home runs in 1,314 games with a .294 on base percentage. The 5-11, 215lb. shortstop is in the first of a two-year contract with a club option for the 2011 season.
COLLINS, 20, has appeared in 35 games this season with the New Hampshire Fisher Cats of the Eastern League (AA), posting a record of 1-0 with a 2.51 ERA including nine saves. The Worcester, Massachusetts native is a career 14-9 with a 2.40 ERA including 27 saves in 130 career minor league games. The 5-7, 155lb. left-handed pitcher was signed by the Blue Jays as a non-drafted free agent in July of 2007.
PASTRONICKY, 20, is batting .258 with 16 doubles, six home runs and 35 RBI in 77 games this season with the Dunedin Blue Jays of the Florida State League (A). The Bradenton, Florida native was selected by the Toronto Blue Jays in the 5th round of the 2008 First Year Player Draft.
To make room on the 40 man roster the Blue Jays have designated RHP RONALD UVIEDO for assignment.
Tom Back: Well that's a big one. Gonzalez is having a great season but Yunel Escobar is younger. He isn't having a great season but his career numbers look pretty good. A season like last year .299/.377/.426 would look pretty good in the Jay's lineup. He is a good fielder at SS, has a UZR/150 of 9.5 this season.
Jo Jo Reyes is a good looking prospect, he is 25. This year in Triple-A he striking out 9.5/9 innings. He is a big guy that throws hard but hasn't had success in the majors yet.
I'm sad to see Collins leave the organization, but you do have to give something up to get something. Pastronicky, as much as I like him, is well down the depth charts at short in our system. I'll hope the best for him.
Quote from MLB Trade Rumors:
The move comes as a big surprise, as Escobar was perhaps one of the more valuable commodities in the game when the 2009 season concluded. Just a few days ago, MLB.com's Mark Bowman wrote that the Braves "simply aren't willing to sell low on a guy who they still view as the game's top defensive shortstop." Escobar was worth over four wins last year, but his power has disappeared in 301 plate appearances this year. Escobar will be arbitration-eligible for the first time after this season, so he'll be under the Jays' control through 2013. Escobar's attitude was a likely factor in the deal; Bowman wrote in June that "there's no doubt that Escobar's flamboyant approach to the game has continued to infuriate some members of the Braves organization."
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Trying to make sense of this deal.
"A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves."
I don't get it.
Why? Hasn’t Tim Collins looked promising. Isn’t Escobar hitting worse than Aaron Hill this year?
Is Reyes any good?
Just a bit confused.
Isn’t Escobar hitting worse than Aaron Hill this year?
No, he’s hitting about the same overall. Where as Hill is hitting home runs, and nothing else, Escobar is drawing walks at an insane rate and not much else. Otherwise they’ve both been getting very unlucky, and are slumping at virtually the same point in their careers. In the long run these two should make a great middle infield pair.
Also Escobar might be a better fielder than Gonzo and Johnny Mac combined.
Whaaa?
Why would we have to send prospects too? Doesn’t seem like a great deal especially when Gonzalez is having such a great year.
I'm on a horse.
by craig in calgary on Jul 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Look at Escobar’s 2009 #‘s a nice build off of his 2008 #’s…Giving up AGon while he was hot (he could cool down really quick at any time) and acquiring a young controllable SS who has shown 2 years previously that he’s been an above average SS is quite a good deal. Pastornicky/Collins aren’t going to be future all-stars so I don’t mind that the Jays gave them up….
I agree. Gonzo was just a stop gap till we got a full time SS.
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
Great move for the Jays
Sell high on Gonzalez and buy low on Escobar. Collins and Pastornicky are relevant pieces but hardly major.
I Agree
Also they could move Escobar over to 3B as well, his bat would play as high as at SS but the defence on that side of the diamond when Hech comes up would be incredible.
by canadiancolts on Jul 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
meant to say not as high as at SS
by canadiancolts on Jul 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel sad to lose Collins.
Would have liked to see him up in Toronto at some point. But I guess he is only a reliever anyway. Need to find out more about Escobar and how he projects long term I guess. I don’t really care about losing Pastornicky given that we have Hech, Goins and Pierre all in the minors. I guess just wait at this point to see what the experts say.
Move makes sense. I mourn the Collins part, just because he was the one I was most interested in seeing pitch up here. Escobar is young, has great tools, and despite this year, has a pretty good bat. He’s nice insurance for Hechiverra. I don’t know Reyes at all; nice splits on his BB/K, but what else is this guy? Based on the numbers, he looks a little like a younger Burnett; lots of juice but when he gets hit, he gets hit a lot.
This is a freaking steal by AA
Picked up a young SS going into his prime for a old one going out of his.
Brilliant buy-low, sell-high trade by AA.
Honestly, this is one of the best trades the Jays have made in years.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Sounds an awful lot like Rolen and E5
I'm on a horse.
by craig in calgary on Jul 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you are comparing Gonzalez and Rolen?
I like Gonzalez…but he’s 33 and has never been great, Rolen is a terrific player. Considering Yunel is young, plays great defense, and has potential, isn’t a tough trade to make.
Which is a trade I would make again today.
Read the Braves fans…they are FURIOUS. That’s generally a good sign.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Really?
Sweet. If I don’t know alot of the compensation, Iike to judge it by how pissed the other team is.
All is right in the world, except for my head. Stupid Stampede
I'm on a horse.
by craig in calgary on Jul 14, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never believed that E5 was anything more than a salary dump in that deal.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jul 14, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Im a bit upset about losing Collins
but realistically, he seems like a middle reliever at best…
Gonzalez for Escobar is a win for us, and Pastornicky is pretty garbage so i wont miss him.
Would have been nice to get a decent prospect out of the Braves though.
Onions Baby Onions
Coming from Heyman; but still
SI_JonHeyman
bobby cox has to be thrilled to be rid of underachieving space cadet yunel escobar. alex gonzalez is a nice early going away gift for cox.
I am a bit skeptical of this deal still.
So let me get this straight
A SS who is capable of OPSing 800 and better and gives you gold glove defense but is underachieving for 3 months and is controllable for 3 more years and they are happy to be rid of him.
I am happy we have him
by canadiancolts on Jul 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah to me..
we got a player with a lot of potential for a rental shortstop…seems like a move you have to make if it is offered.
Will give reports on Reyes
When I see him pitch. Fisher Cats are home Thurday-Wednesday.
by NHfishercatsfan on Jul 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
Not sure why so many people are excited.
The Blue Jays don’t need their future shortstop. They needed a short term one. Hechavarria isn’t being paid 10 million to split time with Escobar over the next 4 years.
by NHfishercatsfan on Jul 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
Take a look at Hech's numbers please
He is not a sure thing by any means. He is at least another full year away from the majors, anything can happen in that time.
Onions Baby Onions
I’d say he potentially is a short term solution. Hechavarria is at least a year away, possibly two. Now they don’t need to rush him if he’s not ready. If he turns it on and makes a case, you can always slide Escobar into third. Escobar is going to be controllable and affordable for three years for the Jays. That’s value, even if Hech makes him trade fodder or not.
Actually, weren’t there reports that Hech might project better as a 3B because of his glove? Either way, even if both stay at SS, they’ll be prized assets that can be moved for a good return.
I’ve heard conflicting things about Hech’s glove, so without seeing it I can’t comment. But yeah, there’s no bad thing about have two good gloves in your premium defensive position. You could always convert one over to second and move Hill to third, like a lot of people think will have to happen after the next couple of years.
Escobar being of Cuban
origin could provide personal mentorship wrt Hech. I’d like to see AA make an “under the table” agreement with Fidel so that he steers Cubans towards the Jays.
by Muscle-Dolphin on Jul 14, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this better for you guys than Atlanta
Join the Lacrosse community at http://www.theprolaxblog.blogspot.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT reply actions
Interesting
AGon was never going to stick around long term anyway, particularly if he continues to hit some HRs and put up RBIs to attract a better contract next year (he has an option for next year, right? Not a locked in contract?).
We had an option – $2.5mil club option, I believe. AGonz was cheap and controlable, but I think when he was picked up, the idea of flipping him if he was having a good season was always there. He’s still a top defender, and the power this year makes a nice incentive for another team. Escobar has had a pretty good career up until this year, where he’s had a brutal first half. But he’s considered one of the top defensive SS in the National League. He’ll be under club control until following the 2013 season, which gives us three years to develop Hech and see if our Cubean wunderkind is the next coming of Fernandez.
It is a club option.
but Gonzo is having a career year…and he’s still getting on base at a less than .300 rate.
hard not to like this deal, though of course there is risk involved.
Gonzalez has been great and could be good again next season but he’s entering his mid-30s. He gets out more than 70% of the time, and that’s in a good year.
Collins seems like a future lefty specialist type and while I like Pastornicky, I’m not sure he’s cut out to be a regular MLB shortstop.
If Hechavarria progresses as the Jays hope he will (I’m guessing they wouldn’t have dealt Pastornicky if they didn’t like what they’ve seen of him so far), and is ready soon Escobar will be movable assuming he bounces back. But having a young, cost-controlled option there insures that the Jays won’t need to rush Hechavarria.
That said, while Escobar has been great with the glove this season, he’s been awful at the plate and it’s hard to figure out exactly why. While his BABIP is low, it’s the desertion of all power that’s really perplexing as his plate discipline and control of the strike zone are as admirable as usual and his line drive rate is steady. He did look like he was coming out of it in June, but hasn’t continued that trend so far in July.
The nice is that with his glove, he doesn’t need to hit to his career levels to be an asset to the Jays. But it’d sure help if he could. He’d make a great 1-2 hitter.
I’m definitely not sold on Reyes but if he doesn’t make it as a starter, he could be a decent bullpen arm for the Jays.
Certainly there’s a chance that it could be a repeat of the Encarnacion situation but likely it’s a smart risk and the situation is different. Encarnacion was awful in the field at a relatively easy position and therefore needed to hit to maintain any value. Escobar is excellent at a defense-first position.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
So Encarnacion can play third all this year and next?
Pass.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
we could try escobar at 3B
and maybe try emaus at short? im just saying bautista is not going to be what he is right now, this time next year
Emaus has never played short
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
he's playing 2B
the transition shouldn’t be to hard i think
It's pretty hard
If it was easy to move 2Bs to short we’d have developed one by now.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
why would we not put Emaus at third
where he has experience
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I say keep Bautista and have Emaus as plan B
It would be nice to have a plan B for once.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
it would, but it all depends on what we could get back for Bautista
I’m not opposed to trading him, but if it means fielding a $6 million Encarnacion at third base next season it’d have to be one heck of a return.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
could we get more for bautista?
he has been better than gonzalez is almost every stat
He's playing positions where more production is expected
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
not to mention the fact that
Gonzalez performed fairly well in last season’s stretch run for the Red Sox (not to say he will again, but that’s important to some folks) and is a solid fielder.
Bautista, on the other hand, is a decent corner outfielder but is somewhat below-average at third and I doubt many folks are convinced that this half-season hasn’t been simply a good first half.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Except that it extends through last September too?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
why on earth
would you assume EE will get a raise next year? being Arb-eligible doesn’t guarantee a multi-million raise….in fact i think Bautista himself came back for the same price as last year and, IMOm you can bet your sweet bippy that if the Jays offered EE another deal for the same figure as this year he’d sign it before the ink got dry.
you make a good point, I definitely don't think he'd get a big raise
but I don’t think he’d come back for less than he was making this season. The Jays have to offer him arbitration or non-tender him. If they offer arbitration, he’s not likely to sign for less than he made this season because he won’t take a bath in arbitration, and if they non-tender him, they are out a third baseman. Maybe you’re right and they could get him for the same price as this year, but I don’t want him back at that price either. It’d have to be a big paycut, and you can’t get that with an arbitration-eligible player.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
dude
you never move guys TO short, only FROM short. Great defenders all start out at short in HS and along the way, only the best stay at SS. no one moves TO short on the cusp of the majors.
Yeah, I really have to question what some of you are thinking. At least one person also said to move Escobar to 3B? Why on earth would you move arguably the most talented defensive SS in baseball to 3B?
wow.... great trade, great fucking trade
AA is a fucking champ!!!! Anyone here complaining about the prospects need to wake up and realize how good Escobar could be, and recently was. He can easily turn it around and give the Jays a true All-Star SS as early as next year.
I'm with COCO!!!
Nails
Trade a 33 year old SS with a career OPS+ of 81 who’s having a career year for a 27 year old SS with a career OPS+ of 105 and a good reputation as a fielder? Yes, please.
Collins has a great story and I would have loved to see him keep progressing in our system, but ultimately, he’s a LOOGY and nothing more, and Pastornicky profiles as a utility guy at best.
Reyes definitely hasn’t put things together at the major league level yet, but he’s only 25 and is a decent gamble to take. Reminds me a lot of Ricky Romero, lefty with good stuff but some control issues.
Hechevarria is a great prospect, but the guy’s only 21, I don’t expect him before late season 2012 / early 2013. If he forces AA’s hand, great, but if not Escobar can hold it down until he’s ready, and if Escobar finds his bat again, we should be able to cash him out around his peak for a decent return.
All the best to Gonzalez in Atlanta, you gave your all this year and don’t owe us anything.
Sell high, buy low, invest lots of money in prospects. Keep the good stuff coming, AA.
by ChrisU on Jul 14, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Comment on MLBTR
My take: this is certainly a win-now move for the Braves, who are confident Gonzalez will provide more over the next few months than Escobar would have. The Blue Jays, meanwhile, managed the rare feat of acquiring three-plus years of a shortstop with star potential without giving up much.
Quite well put, young controlable SS with star potential aren’t usually this easy to acquire.
Don't forget - the Jays were are not supposed to contend this year.
We are supposed to be building for the future. The Jays record so far has caused people to forget that a bit I think. We were supposed to lose 100 games this year and instead we are close to .500. That does not mean we are in contention, not by a long shot, so the plan should not change.
This move makes all kinds of sense. Shortstops entering their mid-30s are not going to be a big part of a teams future. AGon was never superstar material, and now he’s entering the declining stage of his career. It’s been nice having him play well for us this year, but he has zero upside potential.
Damn it, why Collins
I thought he had a place in our future =\
Also, the Braves blog seems happy to be rid of Jo-Jo Reyes, which says… something.
Ball.
man there is some weapons grade stupid in that thread
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
not too much chirping in there
I was probably as negative as anybody in there, but I thought it was probably a wash….i don’t think it’s a wash anymore.
missing voidhelix though : )
Buck's Turn
time to trade buck as well, arencibia has been absolutely raking in AAA and has been there long enough. i want to call him up now so that he can iron out all problems this year and contribute immediately next year.
This is an absolute steal!
I can’t believe AA pryed Escobar away from Atlanta for so little. A cost-controlled young shortstop with good on base skills and gold glove caliber defense for a stop-gap, a relief prospect. Reyes and Pastornicky were basicaly throw ins. I loove Tiny Tim but you have to do this deal every day of the week. Classic case of sell high and buy low.
"Hitting the ball was easy. Running around the bases was the tough part."- Micky Mantle
by TwoEyesForAnEye on Jul 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions
Amazing trade for us…..Wow….i’ve been very impressed with AA thus far in his tenure at GM. Shrewd signings, more international competitiveness and clever trades…this being one of them……Incredible trade for the Jays…..Good luck to A-Gonz, he did an incredible job for the Jays this half season……loved his D and enjoyed his pop.
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
This is great. Consider this potentially awesome lineup in 2011-2012:
C – Arencibia
1B – Wallace
2B – Hill
SS – Escobar
3B – Emaus (Bowman?)
LF – Snider
CF – Wells
RF – Bautista
DH – Lind (Thames?)
If Lind, Escobar and Hill return to at least in the neighbourhood of waht we now they can do with the bat, and if Emaus (or Bowman) and Arencibia pan out as prospects, this would be one heck of a line-up, with the exception of a probably below-average defensive CF in Wells. I also like the extra patience Escobar adds.
Btw, A-Gon’s average standard distance on his home runs is 378.6 feet, and he’s leading all of baseball (together with Hart and McGehee) in home runs qualified as “Just Enough”.
Average standard distances for comparison:
Encarnacion – 411.7
Snider – 408 (just 6 though)
Wells – 406.5
Bautista – 401.2
Lind – 400.7
Buck – 395.6
Overbay – 395.4
Hill – 387.8
(Gonzalez – 378.6)
Escobar hasn’t hit any bombs this year, but hit 14 last year with an average of 401.2 feet and 10 the previous year with an average of 396.7. Gonzo wasn’t anywhere near that.
If Cito/Murphy can get the guy to lift the ball instead of hitting it on the ground he should be a pretty decent home run hitter.
however
i hope he can retain his really good BB rate. given city/murphy’s tendencies that might fly out the window.
really? E5?
i had no idea. i know bautista still walks, but really no else walks.
really E5
and Lyle and Snider all have walk rates north of 10% per PA….those are good.
Scoot walked a ton last year
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Move Snider to right, Bautista to 3B
and sign Carl Crawford to play LF. Not like we can’t afford it after two years of pinching pennies.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I don't want Emaus at 3B with no backup plan
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Bowman's in AA
so that’s a bit of a stretch.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
His numbers there are insane, and it isn’t even the PCL. I have high hopes at the moment.
Also, his TotalZone numbers are very impressive: http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=452665
I do think that either Emaus or Bowman will be a good option at 3B.
I thought TotalZone didn't use ball in play data
It was a way of estimating fielding for players in poorly documented contexts, especially historical.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I don’t think the data is worth a lot, but it will pick up on who’s definitely above average and who simply sucks at defense. At least, that’s what I think. I’d be willing to give both of their bats a shot if their defense is decent-good as advertised.
I’d like to see Bautista traded maybe for a 1B/DH/LF type in case Lind sucks for the rest of his life. Nick Weglarz!
We have a lot more depth at that position (Dopirak)
than we do in 3Bs.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Hmm, at 3B we have Emaus, Bowman, possibly Hech, Tolisano. 1B is just Wallace and maybe, just maybe McDade (his BB/K is horrible). Thames and Loewen could count as well, but I don’t consider Dopirak a prospect (underwhelming numbers, especially for a PCL 1B as old as he is) sp “a lot more depth” seems like a real exaggeration.
Can't count Hechevarria as 3B depth
Has he ever played 3B? Tolisano is in high A and hadn’t played a game at 3B before this year.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
It's not like he's a pending free agent
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
why does that really matter? because he would be able to walk after theseaon is over?
If anything you can argue because he is under team control for longer he has more value
The guy is having a career year and AA should do the same thing he did with Gonzalez and sell high
He's not paid well, so it's not a salary dump
He’s not a free agent, so he’s not a perishable good that expires at the trade deadline, and he plays a position we need someone to fill next year. Who do you see trading a 3B for Bautista?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I think if Bautista goes, he goes to a contender along with a reliever for a Top 50 prospect and maybe a lesser prospect.
All the top 3B prospects are on teams that aren't close to the playoffs this year
so it would have to be a 3 way deal at least.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
3-ways are good
who would be in the market for Bautista?
what about trying to contend in 2011?
1) Lewis LF
2) Escobar SS
3) Lind DH
4) Wells CF
5) Bautista 3B
6) Hill 2B
7) Snider RF
8) Wallace 1B
9) Arencibia C
Rotation with Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Marcum….
We´d content if we wouldn´t play with the Yanks, Boston and the Rays…
"Without a catcher we´ll have a lot of passed balls!" Casey Stengel
by jaysfanfromeurope on Jul 14, 2010 5:11 PM EDT reply actions
Assuming Lind stops sucking that wont be a bad lineup
i feel like the best we can hope for out of Hill is a .275 20HR season for the rest of his time here. He has looked terrible all season. if he doesnt bounce back we will be screwed at 2B.
Onions Baby Onions
i really think its just been a bad season for both Lind and Hill i dont see this year being and indication of the years to come
well, we'll see, for Hill...
I’m starting to think that those club options after 2012 might not be exercised, particularly if he regresses defensively between now and then.
If they want to exercise the 3 year option
it’s after this year. After 2012 it’s either a 1 year option or a single 2 year option.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
hmmmm, I just looked it up and we're both wrong
His salary is garanteed for 2011 at a relatively cheap $5 million.
After that the options kick in and they’re $8 mil, $10 mil, $10 mil.
So the Jays will have some interesting decisions if Hill doesn’t start playing better this year and next year.
oh, but I see what you mean... they can pick up the 12, 13, 14 options any time before next season.
I doubt they will at this point though. They’ll probably wait to see how he performs.
Lind is at least hitting the ball okayish on occasion
Hills LD% is at 9% right now… league average is almost 20%.
Onions Baby Onions
Sign Lee and Crawford
We’ll end up with a first round pick anyways if we let Downs walk, and another if our natural pick is in the top 15, so the lost picks aren’t that pricey (and the second one is less expensive than the first). Why let the Yankees and Red Sox be the only ones who get to pull that trick?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
he'll get an offer
but it could well be from someone with a protected pick or a higher-ranked Type A
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
i'd take it
the comp pick alone would be worth it
I don't disagree
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
but will it be, in the words of George Oscar Bluth,
a “firm offer”?
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
JO Jo has to be better than Tallet.
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
I just got home and saw this trade, and I just about went through the roof. Giving up Gonzalez and his 17 HRs and awesome defense for a guy with 0 HRs and a crap average? But Reyes as well? Seriously? He’s got some of the worst major league career numbers I think I’ve ever seen. I am definitely not seeing the upside of this move at this point, that’s for sure.
Umm.. you know they are selling high on Gonzalez and buying low on Escobar right?
Umm.. you know they are selling high on Gonzalez and buying low on Escobar right?Escobar is in the midst of a serious down year. Look at his career numbers
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Whoa that was weird….
Whoa that was weird….
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Ahhh! What’s happening!
Ahhh! What’s happening!
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
obscure movie quote time!!
Henry Hill: [narrating] And then there was Jimmy Two Times, who got that nickname because he said everything twice, like:
Jimmy Two Times: I’m gonna go get the papers, get the papers.
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
thanks for that, syc
now go get your f***ing shine box
obscure?!
we watch that before Disney films where I grew up
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
haha
have to imagine the obscure part referred to the quote, not the movie, right syc?
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Its not the most talked about quote from that movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4EQWag2Aw
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
ah, modifier comprehension fail
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Escobar is also good defensively
and he has better OBP than Gonzalez despite his low average, which is driven by a low BABIP for his line drive rate.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
yeah, I'm surprised so many people are so happy with this deal too.
Reyes is only controllable for 2 years more than Gonzo. He’s entering arbitration and his salary will be close to Gonzo’s. He’s not hitting at all right now. It’s hard to say whether he’ll get even close to what he did last year ever again, particularly with AL East pitching. Even his best season last year, he hit for marginal power. His attitude apparently sucks, and who knows how he’ll be in that clubhouse.
I know that Jays management is probably confident that Collins will not be that good, and they obviously have an inside edge over we fans who’ve never seen him, but his numbers show some upside, and he’s awful young.
I mean this is not a “terrible” trade. It’s an acceptable risk I suppose. But I feel they gave up a lot for a player that the Braves were essentially looking to dump somewhere.
We’ll see though…
I guess you could say the same about Hill and Lind that they might never get close to last years’ performance. But you kinda think they have it in them. Agon will likely not get close to his current year’s performance again, as he is way above career norms.
Escobar, Hill and Lind make an interesting triumverate. Their WAR’s from last year were 4.3, 3.9 and 3.5, respectively and they are all in the tank this year.
So we need to break Hill's wrist
and let Lind go on trade waivers?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Actually, the guy with the worst major league numbers I’ve ever seen would be Roy Halladay circa 2000. Not saying Reyes will be Halladay (or anything close to it), but dude’s 25 years old with career minor league lines (before this year) of 32-10, 3.07 ERA, 1.24 WHIP. Jays have been pretty decent as of late developing pitchers, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt here.
But if Reyes never pitches a valuable inning in a Jays uniform, this trade is still a win. If he does overcome whatever control issues he’s got, it’s a major win.
like I said he cant be worse than the way Tallet is pitching for us right now
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
Its funny
Both this thread and the one on Talking Chop are largely negative.
Apparently no one will win this trade.
I didn't think this one was largely negative
there are a few negative thoughts I think most of see an older SS having a career year being traded for a younger player, who might be having a poor season, has been much better before this year.
Personally I liked seeing AA gamble a bit
Prior to this most of his moves were low risk except for the Halladay deal.
GREAT!!!!
How can anyone not like this trade? We’re basically in last place and traded an old SS who would have been here for one more year tops for a young shortstop who has put up spectacular career numbers! (and Gonzalez is totally useless to us since he’s not helping build toward the future either way).
Collins? A power arm with a huge K-rate, but let’s be honest: is the bullpen really the problem with the Jays now or in the foreseeable future, of course not.
We’re getting the most controllable and most talented player in this deal and that’s all that should matter!!!!! (Pastornicky and Reyes are meaningless, especially with all our young middle-infielders.)
With Downs and Frasor gone after this year
the bullpen suddenly contains a whole lot of question marks.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
not really we can fill the PB via Free agents. They got some good bull pen arms available next year
Right handers:
Jessie Crain, Jon Rauch, Grant Balfour and Joaquin Benoit are good options. Rauch would be a great closer IMO.
South paws
Joe Beimel, Scott Downs, J.C. Romero and Matt Thornton
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
I assume we're letting Downs walk for the picks
unless we’re trading him, then signing him back because we’re already signing enough other guys that he’ll only cost us a third round pick.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
great move by AA!
sad seeing Collins go but the risk might be worthwhile
If anyone has a BP subscription
I’d be curious to see what the article they just put up says.
Heh
It’s just between that and BA (as well as other sites) they charge a lot for their content. Certainly more then the amateur fan in me wants to pay. No need to copy or anything, but I’m just curious what they thought the overall gist of the trade was.
Thanks
Keith Law really doesn’t like this trade. Then again the logic he used was kinda off. He said he’s been declining for years, when last year was his best year.
Yeah I don't understand that....
If you would have been told at the start of the season that we would be able to try Gonzalez for Escobar, you’d have never believed it. When you are in the AL East you got to try these things.
I'd just like.
Someone to respond to Law’s twitter (I don’t have an account) He goes off about how he’s declining and that he doesn’t care about average.
I’d like to see someone point out that from 2 years ago to last year these stats increased:
WAR
WOBA
SLG
OBP
ISO
etc…
And yes
His first year was his best year, but then again it wasn’t a full year. Of his two full years in the majors pre this year, 2009 was in all ways better then 2008.
Just to add
That first year he had a nearly 370 BABIP. The next two years were a much more realistic .315-.320. I’d like to tell Law that and see how he explains his declining.
Law doesn't like ANYTHING the Jays do...
working for Ricciardi must’ve been very traumatic for him.
I've just spend the last 20 minutes going around the bloggosphere
“Lack of hussle” must have been said 1,000,000,000 times while describing Escobar.
In fact everywhere I looked, when describing him and his frustrating lack of hussle and being a wasted talent, they could have been describing E5. Sounds like the straw that broke the camels back was a lazy throw to first that almost got Glaus killed.
I'm on a horse.
by craig in calgary on Jul 14, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
My favourite:
ESCOBAR stands for: Emperical System of Counting Official Bat-flips And Reprimands
I'm on a horse.
by craig in calgary on Jul 14, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
How come if a Cuban makes a mistake it's lazy?
the guy has made 4 errors this season and he is lazy. Let’s look at him before we believe the worst
i dont think pastornicky would have panned out anyways
i see him as a utility man at best
was excited at first
When I first heard about the trade, I only heard the two main components. After seeing the full trade I lost some of my excitement. I hate losing Collins a lefty in the pen who can strike people out. After reading some things about Escobar (lazy and frequent friend of the chronic) the trade seems a bit more risky. Hoepfully Escobar will get his act together and Reyes can throw strikes and be a quality lefty out of the pen.
losing collins isn't too big of a deal
he may have been doing well in AA, but remember Anthopolous drafted a lot of pitchers this year for this very reason – to trade for bats. I’m sure many of them will be just as if not better than collins is.
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