Jays lose to Tigers

by Tom Dakers on Jul 22, 2010 4:25 PM EDT in Toronto Blue Jays Game Recaps

Pop quiz for any Blue Jay manager applicants: 8th innings, 2-2 game, your starter has thrown 98 pitches, he hasn't been great but he has battled his way through. Now, do you send him out for the 8th inning, knowing that unless it is a very quick 1,2,3 inning you are going to have to pull him in the middle of the inning or do you put in the reliever now, figuring it is easier on the reliever to come in at the start of the inning with the bases empty?

If your answer is the same as Cito's, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Anyway, Cito left Romero in. Romero walks the guy leading off the inning. In comes Camp. I like Camp. You gotta like pitchers that throw ground balls. The trouble, though, with being a pitcher like that, is that come of the time those ground balls will miss fielders. Camp gave up three straight hit and a sac fly. The Tigers scored 3 and for all intents and purposes the game was over. Romero battled all game long and deserved better than the loss.

Other than Edwin Encarnacion's single, we did nothing in the 9th against closer Jose Valverde.

We had our chances, we loaded the bases in the first, with two outs, against Justin Verlander but didn't score. We got a couple of runs in the 2nd off a John Buck home run, but we didn't score Dwayne Wise, who hit a one out triple. After that Verlander righted himself and was tough to hit until he came out of the game after 8 innings.

Offensively, we got 9 hits, one each for everyone in the lineup, except for Lind, whose hitting streak ends at 14 and Wise, who had 2 hits, including the triple.

We got some good defense. EE made a couple of nice plays and Lyle Overbay made a great throw getting the runner going to third base on a ground ball. I don't think there is any other second baseman in the majors that would have made that play. And Romero made a great/lucky catch on a line drive right back at him in the first inning.

Jay of the Day is Ricky Romero (.135 WPA). Honorable mention to John Buck. Jays getting suckage numbers are Camp (-.291), Hill (-.166, pop out with the bases loaded in the first really hurt) and Escobar (-.102). He made a very poor choice to try to stretch a double into a triple in a tie game. Just a bad move.

I have no idea why this was an afternoon game. Seems strange to have an afternoon game on a weekday when it is the first game of a series and Jay had an afternoon game the day before. Tomorrow is a night game. Shawn Marcum goes up against Rick Porcello (4-7,5.63), making his second start since being recalled from the minors.

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Verlander was let out into the 8th inning after throwing 102 pitches.

And he was fine…Just sayin’.

by craig in calgary on Jul 22, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions

Sadly...

Jim Leyland Cito is not.

"A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves."

by Corvus on Jul 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

different pitchers

Verlander was throwing great since the 3rd innings and is one of those few that can go 120. Romero had been fighting his way through.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I wish i could make myself cheer for the other team for the rest of the season

would make losing much more fun…. and we might as well tank anyways.

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Jul 22, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions

Tanking in Baseball doesn’t quite work as well as it does in other sports…..

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 22, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I figured it would work much better than the NBA/NHL

No draft lottery…

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Jul 22, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions

ya but prospects in NBA or NHL are more of a sure thing than in baseball
Its a crapshoot in baseball

by FenixL on Jul 22, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Onwards to a top 10 draft pick? It’s hard to see the team lose but there’s nothing to play for.

by Woodman663 on Jul 22, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions

oh we don't be a bottom ten team

and there is no real reason to want to be.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 22, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions

i think after the deadline we will sink more in the standings
not to say im hoping we lose more games but i just think after we get rid of 4 or 5 main pieces of our team its going to be harder to win games

by FenixL on Jul 22, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I was going to mention the hit and run

I can’t remember what inning, in the middle somewhere. But Aaron Hill got on base by error to start the inning and Overbay was up. I think this is the first hit and run I’ve seen the team try this year. It failed, Lyle missed the pitch and Hill was thrown out. I’m not a huge fan of the hit and run, mostly because of things like this. In this case? Verlander is a strikeout pitcher, he isn’t easy to to hit.

I think Lyle might be the one guy in the lineup I’d want at bat try the hit and run with. It wasn’t a good moment, but then we weren’t doing much at that point in the game. I suppose it was worth a shot, but you had to think the odds were it would turn out the way it did.

The problem with trying things like this, when it isn’t the type of team you have, is you don’t really get a feel for the right time to try. Forcing something you aren’t good at, generally doesn’t work.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 22, 2010 7:48 PM EDT reply actions

haha...best part of the H&R was Hills slide into 2nd

Even if he would have beat the throw, he was about 3 feet short of the bag.

by craig in calgary on Jul 22, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks Tom

I made a similar post over at Batter’s Box. About how Cito always does the let the starter pitch a bit more and then pull at first mistake. Funny enough someone actually tried to state that Cito was smart to let Romero face the lefty because of matchups.

That would be great if it was true. But the facts don’t show it. To be true we would have to see some sign of games where Cito let the starter go the 1 extra batter, get the out and then pull the pitcher. It has happened once the entire year, when Roenicke replaced Cecil. in a game against Seattle I think.

Cito when doing the extra inning for a starter thing either lets the guy go the entire inning, or if he screws up he’s yanked. Which consistently puts our relief pitchers in bad positions to hold ties or leads.

by Arakasi on Jul 22, 2010 8:39 PM EDT reply actions

I read that Battersbox thread

And I have to say, I value Magpie’s opinion over just about anybody else’s at any Jays-themed site.

-- Gravity is not just the law, it's also a good idea

by mathesond on Jul 22, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe I'd have seen his point

If he hadn’t been so busy insulting me.

by Arakasi on Jul 22, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Straight from the horse's mouth

“"My plan was to let (Ricky) go back out there and get Damon out and then switch him, but it didn’t work out," the manager said after the Jays lost 5-2”

Link

-- Gravity is not just the law, it's also a good idea

by mathesond on Jul 23, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions

8th & 9th inning

Cito misses Ward and Henke big time.
He used to cap guys like Stieb and Key and Cerutti at 100 pitches.
I guess Cito doesn’t trust his current bullpen as much…..

by PFHLai on Jul 22, 2010 9:01 PM EDT reply actions

But I must say Camp has been pretty good this year

He is kinda “allowed” an outing like today, I guess.

by PFHLai on Jul 22, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Day Games

Jerry mentioned at the Fan590 that Thursdays at Detroit are always day games. Tradition.
They did get a nice attendance…

Festina Lente

by HESS2479 on Jul 23, 2010 7:34 AM EDT reply actions

I didnt know that. Weird.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 23, 2010 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions

If your answer is the same as Cito’s, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

It’s not a cut and dry as that. Yes, RR was struggling all game, but he’d also only give up 2 runs. That’s pretty good. Gaston was basically asking RR to do a LOOGY for the 8th inning instead of actually using one. Yes, it didn’t work. But let’s not forget that Camp came in and gave up two straight singles. Camp has been a pretty good and reliable reliever this year. This whole sequence of events could have happened anyway regardless of whether RR pitched or not in the 8th.

Yes, RR had 98 pitches, but he could have had a quick inning and gotten it done. I’m not that opposed to RR pushing this year to see what his boundaries are. RR is supposed to be one of our stud pitchers going into the few next years. Stud pitchers should be able to do 100-110 pitches a game with regularity.

by siggian on Jul 23, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions

Stud pitchers should be able to do 100-110 pitches a game with regularity.

Yes. that is true, When they are into the prime of their Career. Romero isn’t there yet and there is a good possibility he is looking at an innings cap this year as well.

The Loogy thing is another debate all together. And I know Cito has already said that was what he planned to do, but as Arakasi said above the evidence from this year (and last) just doesn’t quite support that theory in that Cito usually doesn’t do that.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 23, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions

The meat of the order was up

Its tougher coming into a game and facing Ordonez and Cabrera with an inherited runner on, thats for sure. And there’s no way to tell if going to the bullpen would have prevented Damon from getting on either. Even if he went to the bullpen in the 8th and they held the tigers scoreless, there’s no way we could assume the Jays would win. I can tell you if Romero went out there for the 8th and got those guys 1-2-3 it would have been awesome.

98 pitches thru 7 is 14 and inning, so if he had an avg inning he would have finished with 112, not unreasonable.

What would be an average pitch count for a 1-2-3 inning? is there anyway to know? K pitchers would probably be higher than others so the number is probably moot

by brett w on Jul 23, 2010 5:38 PM EDT reply actions