Still upset over trade

by IstillhateJP on Jul 25, 2010 9:21 AM EDT

I still belkieve that in the long run the loss of Tim Collins in the trade for Escobar will come back to haunt us next year. Collins will be a prnier closer for many tyears to come while Escobar will be a slightly better than average short stop
Anthopoulus needs to trade Overbay and Buck now to give wallace and arencibia a chance to get their feet wet. If not Wallace then use Snider at first instead. Overpaid needs to be moved before he fades again. The Jays should also trade bautista now as his value will never be higher and he will never reproduce these #'s again. Again if they can't trade him make him a firstbaseman

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They’ve been grooming Wallace for first base since the day he got traded…..no way do they try to put anyone else there…..he can’t DH because Lind does that and he can’t play any other infield position.

Snider will definitely be playing outfield when he comes up. My sense is that one o0f Bautista or E5 gets traded and the other plays third base. You can’t play Bautista at first, that way his best defensive asset, his arm, is of little use.

Escobar had three straight decent years before a slump this year. He’s one of the best defensive SS in the game and he is an above average bat from a traditionally weak hitting position. you have to give to get and we traded from a position of strength. We have tons of pitching so it was still a good trade.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Jul 25, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions

Well technically Lind can play LF and 1B but I can’t imagine he’s half the defender at either position as anyone else on the roster.

I can’t see E5 or Overpaid getting traded without us taking the bulk of their contracts, which I never like but would be willing to accept in these circumstances.

And I agree, Escobar will be an Allstar SS and a Gold Glove 3B as soon as Hech gets up here.

I keep tabs on the good prospects we traded and it looks like Chavez from the Brandon for Brandon trade is ripping up High A at 20-21 years old. Collins is still dominating in AA at 20-21, and Pastornicky is holding his own in AA also at 20-21, but we’ll see how they do when they start moving up.

by T_Mizz on Jul 25, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Collins will not be a closer

At best he works out to a Scott Downs type. But he doesn’t have the frame or stuff (he does have the mentality though) to be a closer on a top big league team.

by Arakasi on Jul 25, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions

I'm all for trading JBau

But if you don’t why the hell make him into a first basemen? That makes no sense. His best value is his defensive ability to play multiple positions. You want Snider and JBau and Wallace to all play first? Make up your mind. Snider should be kept in left and JBau can be moved around to use his flexibility.

by Arakasi on Jul 25, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

I still can’t believe the outrage people had about trading a left handed reliever prospect.

He had gaudy K numbers true. but he is still just a left handed reliever

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 25, 2010 10:57 AM EDT reply actions

There is a tendency to over value your own prospects

We know so little about prospects in general we over value stats. Getting worked up about a player you have never seen is one of those things that is going to happen I guess, but if you have decided Collins is going to be a closer just off his stats, transfer your love to Frank Gailey instead. Frank’s is a short lefty too, a level behind where Collins ways but has 65 k in 60 innings, with just 9 walks. His career minor league ERA is 2.04.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 25, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Not exactly the same

Collins had better numbers, higher level, younger age. But I agree the chance he’s a closer in the bigs is unlikely.

by T_Mizz on Jul 25, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

no he isn't the exactly the same but if you are making the leap that Collins is a closer...

you can make the same leap about Gailey with no trouble.

by Tom Dakers on Jul 25, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Gailey is a 24 year old in High A playing with and against kids between 20 and 23, he reminds me of a Mastroianni in that he’s too old for his current level but he’s excelling. I don’t think, however, that anyone can make the claim that they think Gailey a 24 year old in High A will ever be a closer. The arguement becomes infinitely easier when making the case for Collins a 20 year old playing with guys 22-26 in AA and dominating like he has.

Again, not saying Collins will be a closer, but he’s so much closer than Gailey.

by T_Mizz on Jul 25, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

baffles me, too

by jaysbrazil on Jul 26, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Uhh sorry but you’re not placing proper value on players. Best shortstop in the AL East (in my mind) not worth a LOOGY? I absolutely love how Escobar handles the bat..drag bunts, sacrifce bunts, takes walks, good pop. With a prototypical lead off hitter he’ll shine as the best 2 hitter in baseball. Plus the defence isn’t exactly terrible either.

by ABsteve on Jul 25, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions

An above average shortstop is worth a lot more to a team than a shutdown reliever, and we don’t even know if that is what Collins will become.

by Woodman663 on Jul 25, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

rec'd.

by boo15749 on Jul 26, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions

I think people got really caught up in the Collins hype

and wanted him to succeed because of the size thing. But even if Collins becomes an excellent major league closer, which is actually pretty unlikely, it’s still a good tradeoff for the Jays.

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 25, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions