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Thursday Morning Bantering: Trade Values

So every Yankee fan and mouth piece thinks Alex Anthopoulos is asking too much for Scott Downs. Personally, I'm glad, that means he's doing his job. New York media always thinks we are asking too much for our players. Clearly, to them, they can't be worth very much or they would already be Yankees. 

What is his value? He is the best left-handed reliever on the market. He is 34 but is showing no signs of slowing down. He can pitch in any situation. He is a lefty but gets right-handed batters out. He can close. He has no problems dealing with pressure and he has a rubber arm. He can pitch 2 or 3 days in a row. Cito's tested this.  

Do we have to trade him? Nope. He's an type-A free agent, so if he signs with another team in the off-season we'd get draft picks, as long as we offer him arbitration. There is no doubt that we would. It is possible that he would accept arbitration, relievers do have a harder time getting a contract when they are type-A, but I wouldn't mind if he did accept. Then we'd still have a great left-handed reliever in out bullpen., one that would be get about $4 million from the arbitrator. I can't see Rogers having any trouble paying that. 

So if all the Yankee folks think AA is asking too much, don't trade to them. Whoever does get him, even us, will be getting one of the best relievers a team could ask for and, if he leaves that team as a free agent, they could pick up draft choice. 

Jose Bautista is another interesting trade piece. Every one is weighing in with their opinions. The Drunks one day think he should be traded and the next day don't. Me? Like Johnny said last night, I think it's kind silly to speculate. If there was a great offer out there, AA should take it. If not, don't. No player should be untouchable, but there is no gun to to Alex's head to get a deal done. He can listen to any offer without the pressure of thinking he has to be traded. 

This morning MLB Trade Rumors is suggesting that the Phillies are interested in him. I can't see why any team wouldn't be interested. It is a long walk from 'being interested' to offering the type of package it would take to pry Bastista away from us. 

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Domonic Brown and Halladay for Bautista. Done

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

They can throw in Utley too I suppose to even it up :)

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

JohnnyG

Be realisitic dude, do you know anything about baseball?
I say Utley/ Brown/ Halladay and Rollins for John Mcdonald

by Dylan Spoels on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM EDT reply actions  

He does have a great glove and is good in the clubhouse….

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

not to mention

he is batting a gentlemans .218

by Dylan Spoels on Jul 29, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dear Thomas:

i posted on facebook how my witty banter just got two responses by credible sports writers and how proud i was of it…..in your next post please include the name Dylan Spoelstra somehow…..maybe something like “though he did lead the league in steals in under 17 Hamilton baseball, the rumours of a Dylan Spoelstra big league call up are dumbfounded”…..thank you, though i realize if you do print this you may lose credibility, you will have a life long fan, and a story for my kids…..balls in your court…..make the right call
D.

by Dylan Spoels on Jul 30, 2010 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's a great line

"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman

by hugo on Jul 29, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Regarding Downs/Bautista

The only way the Jays can lose is by trading them for garbage. Otherwise this is a win/win/win situation.

by IanJ on Jul 29, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

The real no-lose situation is with Buck. Signed for peanuts, performed great, plenty of contenders could use a good hitting catcher. Trade him, doesn’t really matter for what, maybe a potential closer or something, and bring up Arencibia. Even if the return never works out, it was worh having Buck to give J.P. time to complete his development.

Heck even if they don’t manage to trade him, he projects to be a type B, and we can get a pick.

by Patrick_M on Jul 29, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, all considering it was meant as a one year stop gap to give Arencibia more time he has worked out brilliantly.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

same with Gonzalez

it’s a perfect strategy and kudos to AA for sticking to it. the signings don’t work out? we’re only in the hole for them for a couple of seasons. they do? we basically create something out of nothing.

Prehistoric Hoops - We're back! And we have a real domain!

by boo15749 on Jul 29, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn’t even couple of seasons. With Gonzalez, Buck and Molina it was one season. And possible options with Gonzalez.

Trading him for Escobar was icing on the cake.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The club has an option on him for 2011. Especially if Buck’s traded, Molina should be back.

by dexfarkin on Jul 29, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, he would be a nice mentor for JP especially to help him learn the art of getting the ball away quickly to throw out runners.

Plus he has done wonders with Morrow.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

They won’t go into 2011 without a veteran catcher. If not Molina, we still have Chavez stashed away in the minors, and he’s a really good defensive catcher.

by dexfarkin on Jul 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep and he would already have experience working with Arencibia as well.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does Molina not have an option as well? Put me down for retaining him another year as well. I’d be nice to have a vet. back-up catcher with good D if we’re gonna have a rookie catcher getting his feet wet next year.

by Parallex on Jul 29, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

my bad

no idea why i said ‘couple’

Prehistoric Hoops - We're back! And we have a real domain!

by boo15749 on Jul 29, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

This part does not suck:

Bautista told the FAN 590 tonight that he enjoys Toronto and would consider signing a multi-year deal with the Blue Jays. The team is not discussing a deal with the slugger now, agent Bean Stringfellow confirmed to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.

by craig in calgary on Jul 29, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Ahhh, Cito must have been shopping Purcey.

Thats the only logical explanation to have him come into the 8th inning to face back-to-back righties in a one run game.

White Sox (Bryan Little) and Mets (Bob Melvin) also watching Jays Wed nite

by craig in calgary on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions  

The trade i hope happens most is one involving John Buck

But i haven’t heard any rumours involving him.

Onions Baby Onions

by ohmybosh on Jul 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I’d be stunned if the Tigers weren’t in the mix. Avila/Laird is a pretty weak offensive tandem to play everyday.

by dexfarkin on Jul 29, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are they still buyers thou? What with all the injuries I might think that they’ll pass on making a go of it this year.

by Parallex on Jul 29, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well they did just grab Jhonny Peralta, who I guess they see as an upgrade. Their infield is still a mess, but cather should be their focus for improving.

by Patrick_M on Jul 29, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah there was the Sox for awhile but with Martinez back….

I dunno, I just don’t see enough interest for Buck to see him move anywhere

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cop out

I’m kind of disappointed in the post and the assertion that it is silly to speculate. For a post titled Trade Values, I thought you would speculate on what the value of Jays who might be moved might be.

To say it’s silly to speculate is not helpful. What is Bautista’s value? What qualifies as a “great offer” given this?

Downs is easier to pin down given the track record and Type A status. What 2 comps picks are worth is worth a detailed analysis in itself, but to say any return for Downs should be at least equal to 2 picks is at least helpful.

Now I understand Bautista’s value is based on whether the Jays and the buyer think his season so far is repeatable. We all have opinions on this (and on his value), but you wrote the post, you should come up with something better than it is silly to speculate – it seems a cop out.

I don’t mean to come across harsh. I’m only disappointed because usually the quality of insight I read here is higher.

by Gautam on Jul 29, 2010 2:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I somewhat agree

The title of this topic is somewhat misleading and represents everything being discussed the last couple of days. However, it is useless to try and put value on players. They are worth what teams will give up for them so speculating about it is almost pointless. I guess we can make fun of Yankee fans if needed.

by Joey P on Jul 29, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

"They are worth what teams will give up for them"

But what would you consider an acceptable return?

Would you do Downs for Chamberlain?

by Gautam on Jul 29, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally I would be iffy on Chamberlain, but it is definately something to ponder.

I get a kick out of the Yankees fans that say it is too much.

You are basically trading a more proven reliever for an unproven one with recent troubles. The difference being of course that younger unproven one is still under team control even though he is about to hit arbitration.

I can understand people balking at the asking price of Montero, but I don’t get it for Chamberlain

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jul 29, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

AA is the man!

Seriously, I just love how AA is playing this right now. He doesn’t need to trade any of these guys unless he gets an offer that’s worth taking and that’ll improve the club.

What’s the deal with AA wanting Joba Chamberlain? Is he that good? Does he have that much upside? Does AA see a Morrow-like project with him?

I guess it doesn’t really matter as the Yanks don’t want to give him up, at least not right now.

by Civilizedworm on Jul 29, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

On the SI site

They have the David Cone for Marty Janzen + scrubs trade as one of the finest fleecings in besboll.

I remember that it came out later, that one of the prospects being considered at the time was Mariano Rivera. Didn’t help that it was the Gord Ash era and the beginning of other fleecings (like Loaiza for Michael Young and the almost happened but thankful it didn’t Roy Halladay for Pedro Astacio deals)

No more Janzens!

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Mets apparently rejected a deal for Downs.

Jays wanted Kirk Nieuwenhuis and another prospect put the Mets said no. Link

"Hitting the ball was easy. Running around the bases was the tough part."- Micky Mantle

by TwoEyesForAnEye on Jul 29, 2010 4:05 PM EDT reply actions  

The Mets said No

It’s there prerogative to say no and it’s the Jays to demand more.

Why get upset otherwise?

Of course, I wonder if the various upset fan bases would be upset if the shoe were on the other foot and they wanted prospects for their players. I wonder if they would like a bucket of balls and a game used jersey for say, Mariano Rivera.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also rumors that Anthony Gose coming to Toronto

Part of the Oswalt trade. Unknown what for though. Link

"Hitting the ball was easy. Running around the bases was the tough part."- Micky Mantle

by TwoEyesForAnEye on Jul 29, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I seriously hope we don't give up very much for him

he strikes out more than a copy editor and anyone can steal 36 bases if you have 63 chances to do it. only 19 though, so could develop into a nice player

Prehistoric Hoops - We're back! And we have a real domain!

by boo15749 on Jul 29, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

turning 20 this year

but fair enough, just hoping we didn’t give up Bau/Downs/Frasor for him…

Prehistoric Hoops - We're back! And we have a real domain!

by boo15749 on Jul 29, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

From Astros blog:

EDIT: FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Astros have flipped Anthony Gose to the Blue Jays for Brett Wallace. Another article to follow analyzing this move!

Um, wut

Ball.

by Casusby on Jul 29, 2010 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

The hell???

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Jul 29, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

AA is on the FAN on the other side of the 5 o'clock

Will be interesting to see him confirm/deny this

Ball.

by Casusby on Jul 29, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's twoo...

Brett is going to Houston

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does not compute. Unless we get a MLB ready 1B also or another prospect is coming back in addition. It’s not like 1B is an area of organizational depth.

by Parallex on Jul 29, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

As if...

Maybe US sports media aren’t dumb, they just think we’re dumb. You can’t report a rumour like that and be serious.

by Gautam on Jul 29, 2010 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Or there’s more to it.

by Gautam on Jul 29, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Phillies/Astros

Must be sending us another prospect, Gose for Wallace? my trust in AA just shrunk alittle

by brett w on Jul 29, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

It's twooo.... Sad

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:05 PM EDT reply actions  

AA confirmed

Gose for Wallace is done

Ball.

by Casusby on Jul 29, 2010 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Who's on 1st?

Lind probably.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe Lind

AA has no idea right now. Hopefully we can trade for like Prince or something :|

Ball.

by Casusby on Jul 29, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Montero?

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

So… he traded the Outfielder he got as part of the Doc deal for an infielder for an outfielder?… who projects better Gose or Taylor?

by Parallex on Jul 29, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Taylor’s considered more of a sure thing, Gose has more upside.

by Aphilfan on Jul 29, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

looks like Gose is straight-up for Wallace :( 36sb & 27 CS in High A ball. I guess Wallace will not be Overbays replacement

by cypruss99 on Jul 29, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions  

AA's justification

Jays need a A+ CF prospect. Gose fits the profile according to AA.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Listening to the FAN 590 right now

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

nooooooo

i wanted to see wallace called up in september and be on 1B full time next year. now we have to wait at least another 2 years before this Gose can even sniff the majors.

by WesleyY on Jul 29, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe they saw something in Wallace they didn't like?

Or maybe they figure it will be easier to ask for a 1st baseman prospect in AA or AAA return in another deal.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jul 29, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Understanding of Anthony Gose

He’s a project, but he’s among the better of the Phils’ “lottery ticket” prospects (i.e. TONS of physical talent, even if it’s raw talent – Domonic Brown being the class of this category).

His upside, should he reach it, is Michael Bourne with power, though the power is still developing. Has a ways to go in terms of baseball discipline (command of the strikezone, routes on fly balls, knowing when to steal). Still, he’s young and has time. He’s held his own at each level while being on the younger side at each step.

by Aphilfan on Jul 29, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions  

that may be the case

but this will set us back a few more years before competing

by WesleyY on Jul 29, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

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