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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Best/Worst trades in Blue Jays history

There have been several interesting trades this year and so far they seem quite favorable for the Jays. Here are my lists (I am probably missing some):

The good:

1. Juan Guzman from the Dodgers for Mike Sharperson.

2. Fred McGriff, Dave Collins, and Mike Morgan from the Yankees for Tom Dodd and Dale Murray.

3. Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter from the Padres for Tony Fernandez and Fred McGriff.

4. Devon White, Willie Fraser and Marcus Moore from the Angels for Junior Felix, Luis Sojo and Ken Rivers.

5. Jose Bautista for Robinson Diaz.

The bad:

1. Estaban Loaiza from the Rangers for Darwin Cubillan and Michaeal Young.

2. Troy Glaus and Sergio Santos from Arizona for Orlando Hudson and Miguel Batista (especially considering the difference in salaries).

3. Not exactly a trade, but releasing Chris Carpenter didn't work out very well.

Please add more...

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Bad:

David Wells for Mike Sirotka.

Woody Williams, Carlos Almanzar, Peter Tucci for Joey Hamilton

by blueandwhite31 on Aug 27, 2010 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Good:

Phil Huffman to Kansas City for Rance Mulliniks (Rance had some very good seasons with the Jays in the ’80s)

William Suero and Rob Wishnevskit (nobodies) for Candy Maldanado (Candy had a great season in 1992)

Darrin Jackson for Tony Fernandez in ’93 – Jackson was terrible for the Jays and Tony had a fantastic 1/2 season with the Jays.

You nailed it with the McGriff trade though – one of the worst trades made (from the Yankees perspective). Especially considering the great career Mike Morgan had (after we lost him to waivers)

by masterkembo on Aug 27, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Bad:

Derek Bell to the Padres for Darrin Jackson – other than the fact that we got Fernandez from Darrin Jackson, this trade was terrible.

Jeff Kent to the Mets for David Cone – yes, we won the World Series and Cone was a part of that, but in the long run, the Jays gave up a career 60.7 WAR player for 1.6 WAR of Cone. Ouch (not to mention, because of this we had to watch Sprague play 3rd base for way too long!)

I could play devil’s advocate and say the McGriff/Fernandez for Carter/Alomar trade was a bad one (in the long run), but since Alomar was maybe my favorite Jay ever, I won’t.

by masterkembo on Aug 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Since the trade Mets 0 WS. Blue Jays 2 WS

The Mets and Indians didn’t get much from him either till he got to SF

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Aug 28, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bad?

Jayson Werth for Jason Frasor come on he’s got the team name in his name, you gotta at least keep him for that.

by T_Mizz on Aug 27, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Bad:
Paul Quantrill and Cesar Izturis to the Dodgers for Luke Prokopec (just plain terrible) and Chad Ricketts (never made it to the big leagues)

Shawn Green to the Dodgers for Raul Mondesi and Pedro Borbon

by spekel on Aug 27, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Good: Fred Lewis for peanuts

Bad: Johnny Mac for Johnny Mac

HEADING STRAIGHT FOR THEM, I PRESS DOWN MAH GUNS!

by BenjiDoc on Aug 27, 2010 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Nothing tops the Loaiza trade...

…for pure, unadulterated egregiousness. Michael Young could’ve been one of the greatest Blue Jays of all time.

Thanks, Gord. Somehow, folks like you still manage to find work in this profession.

by royshowell on Aug 27, 2010 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Ugh ugh ugh

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Aug 28, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

David Cone for Marty Janzen and minor league fill ins

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Aug 28, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think that’s too bad because he was a free agent at the end of the year and had a high salary. That’ also the reason we got him for not much at the beginning of the year.

by JaysSaskatchewan on Sep 2, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Best trade NEVER done, but would have been the worst ever if it had

Roy Halladay for Pedro Astacio in 00 for an alleged run for the wild card

Fortunately, Gord Ash couldn’t accomplish that one

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Aug 28, 2010 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Wasn't that the same year he f-d up with Loaiza?

I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.

by leafsfan4life94 on Aug 28, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best Almost Trade

Remember the rumours of Rios for Lincecum… that would have been gross

There She Gooooooes!

by Rugged Rock on Aug 28, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions  

I miss the times when Rios was good..

by vann0308 on Sep 4, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

#3 was more even than good for us IMO.

I know we picked up a couple integral pieces for the World Series run, but we gave up quite a bit in that deal in Tony and Fred…thank goodness we got Tony back for Darrin friggin Jackson…

I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.

by leafsfan4life94 on Aug 28, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

And ridiculous first name Chavez

He’s been ripping up hi A this year, we’ll see if he becomes a star, but I think already it’s looking like this worked out great for us. BTW Brandon League is a type A, did anyone else know that?

by T_Mizz on Aug 29, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your post almost seems like WE acquired Johermyn Chavez… but anyway, while I definitely think this trade has worked out well for us, it hasn’t been bad for Seattle, despite what their fans think.

Seattle had a need and that need was a setup guy… League has done a pretty good job and has been very good since the all-star break.

Morrow was misused in Seattle and probably never would have succeeded there. Furthermore, their pitching staff is quite good with the 5th best ERA in the AL. Would the Morrow of the current minute help their staff? Sure… much like Halladay would help ours… but it’s not like him NOT being here has hurt anything.

Chavez has indeed been ripping it up but take any big offensive numbers out of the Cali League with a grain of salt. However the scouting reports have been glowing.

So not that any of these posts imply we “fleeced” Seattle – though I know people think that – I feel it certainly appears to be a good trade for us at this point, and may actually end up being a win-win. Unless Morrow ends up being a Cy Young winner (which with his talent is possible) and Chavez ends up being nothing more than a servicable ML player.

Seattle unloaded a player that didn’t fit into their rotation to acquire someone they had a massive need for, who is performing well, and a prospect that to this point has been a shiny star but is still a long way away.

by Fuzzpuke on Aug 29, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone ripping up A+ when their home ball park is High Desert is, shall we say, not impressive.

Here we can see the stats for the entire High Desert offense. The ballpark is ridiculously hitter friendly. Johermyn Chavez is by no means bad, but great danger lies in reading too much into those numbers.

In regards to League, it had to be assumed that League was a better mid-high leverage reliever than Morrow was or could be in 2010 if SEA kept Morrow in the pen. It also undervalues starting pitching and ignores any longterm payout. Right now, League and Morrow out of the pen are a push. In the future, with Morrow under team control longer, it becomes a pretty obvious no brainer. League had just as much a problem with consistency as Morrow out of the pen, which can be seen in in his year-to-year stat lines. Last year he was brilliant. This year he’s…well, he’s the same pitcher he’s always been outside of last year: 0.5-1.0 WAR with a mid-3’s FIP.

The guys competing for the fifth spot in the rotation (like Morrow would have been), if they lose, go to the pen. There’s an error in thinking these aren’t interchangeable. Moreover, you would have to assume that Morrow was not just as good or better than Ian Snell, Jason Vargas and Doug Fister. This line of thinking is nuts. Fister is Jarrod Washburn, massively benefiting from Safeco Field (look at the .62 spread between his FIP and his xFIP—home run suppression in action). Ian Snell has a similar skill set to Morrow, but Morrow does all of the good things better. Also, Ian Snell literally costs 10x as much as Brandon Morrow, which makes him a sunk cost and a really asinine investment.

League is a reliever and offers no upside beyond that; Morrow is a starter and continues to offer upside beyond this year. If he gets arm fatigue, whatever, put him in the pen and let him collect the 0.5-1.0 WAR per year that he was collecting before this year. For relief purposes, the Brandons are interchangeable pieces. Because Morrow can be a starter, he is inherently more valuable than League.

Johermyn Chavez remains the wild card in this deal, but even if he becomes a league average contributor (in, what, 4 years…maybe…hopefully…?), at that point he’s contributing ~2 wins per year to the M’s roster. And based on the hitting prospects that bust out of High Desert (Christ, look at those park factors)!, those aren’t favorable odds.

Morrow has a career FIP out of the pen of 4.19 without adjusting for seasonal norms. In 118.1 innings pitched, that works out to ~1.2 WAR in two seasons, or a 0.6 WAR reliever. Prior to this year, League’s career FIP was 4.40 in 222.1 IP for a WAR of 1.5, which is 0.3 WAR more than Morrow in 100 more innings pitched. There is literally no way to justify this trade by saying the Mariners needed a high leverage reliever. They had one in Brandon Morrow.

The Jays fleeced the Mariners on this deal. This isn’t because I love Brandon Morrow (though I do). This is because the Jays got greater absolute value out of the deal by a pretty wide margin.

by harkening on Aug 29, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

One rumoured that didn't happen [bad catagory]

back in 77 i think, it was said that the yankees wanted Bill Singer for their playoff run, but Buzzy Bavassi didn’t want to give up our only marquee name. the roumored player the yankees offered up was some left handed minor league pitcher named Guidry. maybe somebody’s heard of this guy…

by Alan F. on Aug 29, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions  

good: Accardo for Hillenbrand

Accardo was very, very valuable for a full season, and could be valuable again next season.

by REMO on Aug 29, 2010 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Good: 36-year old Doyle Alexander for Duane Ward

by CanadianBuc on Aug 30, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions  

interesting one

That’s an interesting one because you could argue that that trade cost us the ’87 pennant but helped win the ’92 and ’93 World Series.

by JaysSaskatchewan on Sep 2, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Incidentally, this was also a great trade for Atlanta. They later traded Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz. Doyle Alexander went 9-0 with a 1.53 E.R.A in the ’87 pennant race after being aquired by Detroit.

by JaysSaskatchewan on Sep 2, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bad: Shannon Stewart & Dave Gassner to Minnesota for Bobby Kielty.

Stewart finished that year 4th in MVP voting.

by CanadianBuc on Aug 30, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

There have been a lot of great trades, but to my mind the absolute BEST one in franchise history is Fernandez and McGriff for Alomar and Carter. This was the deal that really set up those two World Series teams. It alone didn’t clinch it, but it brought us two lynchpin players that were invaluable for those years. So to my mind it doesn’t get any better than that when it yields two World Series trophies.

Now as far as best deals in terms of “steals” where we really robbed the other team blind. Well clearly that’s not the above trade as it was quite balanced. Stealing Fred McGriff from the Yankees definitely ranks up there. Conversely getting rid of young guys like Derek Bell, Jeff Kent and Michael Young really hurt in retrospect.

by jabalong on Sep 2, 2010 6:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Jeff Kent trade

I think that one is a example of one that was very good in the short term and very bad in the long term. We may not have won the ’92 World Series without David Cone (he started Game 6).

by JaysSaskatchewan on Sep 2, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good point, “very good in the short term and very bad in the long term” is probably another good way of looking at trades. I wouldn’t call the Kent-Cone deal a bad one in Jays history, as Cone was a significant boost for our World Series run. So even if Kent went on to a quasi-HoF (though not quite) career, it’s still a good trade for us overall since we took the trophy that year.

by jabalong on Sep 2, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Josh Towers

Trading our team’s dignity in order to let Josh Towers pitch.

by Schenn4captain on Sep 4, 2010 9:06 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

• Fred Lewis for almost nothing
• Jose Bautista for Robinson Diaz
• Brandon Morrow for Brandon League

by vann0308 on Sep 4, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions  

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