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Who would you pick as AL Rookie of the Year?

SB Nation does a poll of the bloggers to give out our version of the major awards. I just filled out my ballot, but the really tough one was Rookie of the Year. Just like the BBWAA we are to give our top three choices in order.

There are a lot of pretty decent AL rookies, but no one that really stands out. Ignoring Brett Lawrie (43 games really isn't enough to get a vote from me) the choices come down too:

Dustin Ackley: He played 86 games at 2B and got into a few more games. He is tied for the top among AL rookie batters in WAR at 2.7 (with Lawrie). He had a .273/.348/.417 line, helped out a bunch by a .339 BABIP. Plays good defense. 

Mark Trumbo: Led AL Rookies with 29 home runs, drove in 87. Had a .254/.291/.477. Didn't walk much at all. 4.4% of the time. Really not great number for a first baseman.

Eric Hosmer: 19 home runs and 78 RBI for the Royals. Pretty nice batting line: .293/.334/.465. First baseman without much defense. 

Michael Pineda: He went 9-10 with a 3.74 ERA for the Mariners. Only walked 2.89/9 while striking out 9.11/9. If he had a better offensive team behind him he'd have a much better won/loss record.

Ivan Nova: Went 16-4, with a 3.70 ERA. Walked 3.1/9 and struck out 5.3/9, not really numbers that make you think that he'll go on to have a great career, but when you have an offense that scores as much as the Yankees, it is good enough. He gets lots of ground balls. 

Jordan Walden: If you like saves, he led rookies with 32 of them. Struck out 10/9 while walking 3.9. 2.98 ERA. But then he did have 10 blown saves. 

Jeremy Hellickson: 13-10 and 2.95 for the Rays. Didn't strikeout many, 5.6/9 and walked a few more than I'd like, 3.43. Had a very low BABIP at .223, I'm doubtful he can do that again.

There are others that had a pretty good rookie year too, including our J.P. Arencibia and Eric Thames.

So what 3 AL Rookies would you put on your ballot?

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Tough choice

It’s a tough year to choose, for sure. Personally, despite the peripherals that don’t support the ERA, I’d probably lean towards Hellickson, mostly because of the AL East-factor, which certainly made life a lot tougher for him, than say, Michael Pineda, who got a bunch of games against the Angels and Athletics, and pitched half-the-time out of Safeco.

by 4dizzle on Oct 10, 2011 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Hellickson. despite the high FIP, what he did was still pretty impressive in AL East

by Sniderlover on Oct 10, 2011 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Hellickson, Ackley and Arencibia for me. But I admit that I always favour a rookie catcher because I think the position is easily the hardest in baseball.

by dexfarkin on Oct 10, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Hosmer, Ackley and Hellickson. Not sure what supports your Hosmer defense comment?

by Bobstuart on Oct 10, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Hosmer's UZR/150 is -8.3

To put it into perspective. Newbie at 1st, Adam Lind posted a -3.3.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Oct 10, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

UZR doesn't work for 1Bs though

doesn’t measure scooping ability. SSS alert of course, but Hosmer is -10 TZL and -16 DRS (!)and Lind is +4 TZL and -3 DRS. so Hosmer is very poor defensively if we’re going to assume this is his true talent level (probably minus one win) and Lind is around average if this is his true talent level

by benk on Oct 10, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

strange

his scouting reports say he’s an excellent defender, and should be able to handle the corner OF.

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by Pikachu on Oct 10, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lookie here

MGL on scooping
Dewan with the methodology and such

If you have to use the sarcasm font, you're doing it wrong.

by Gerse on Oct 10, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say Ackley or Pineda

I don’t love WAR for ROY (hence no Lawrie), but its a good baseline for value. Pineda really pitched great all year (peripherals too) and Ackley impressed me in his half season. For pretty much everyone else I agree with Tom’s summary

by benk on Oct 10, 2011 12:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

If I were voting, Pineda,

but Hellickon’s ERA will win it

Sad, Drunk, And Poorly

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL

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by Pikachu on Oct 10, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

1. Michael Pineda

2. Jeremy Hellickson
3. Dustin Ackley

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- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Oct 10, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

My votes go to Michael Pineda

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by Minor Leaguer on Oct 10, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

For me, I couldn't vote for a guy that didn't play at least half the season.

But they both were great when they did play, I just think that if they played more the league might have caught up with them.

I blog, therefore I am.

by Tom Dakers on Oct 10, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

lawrie/jennings put up ~2.5 WAR in about 50 games

even if they had played at replacement level for the rest of the season, that would still make their years more impressive than anyone other than pineda/ackley.

i kind of look at rookie of the year the opposite way: i’ll vote for the 3 WAR guy who played 60 games over the 3 WAR guy who played 120 games because it means he played at a significantly higher level when he was playing.

by Jono411 on Oct 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get what you mean

but even though I can’t really articulate why I disagree, it just doesn’t seem “fair” that a player who played a third of the season was judged to be the best rookie. FanGraphs had a piece a while ago on this too. I dunno, I just don’t like judging ROY based purely on “value” (even if yes, it’s the most fair way to do it) (this is a horrible argument, and I hope you at least understand what I’m saying)

by benk on Oct 10, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, just doing it on value is not something I'd do though I used value to narrow things down

and the ‘even if they played replacement level’ line is all well and good, but it isn’t that easy to play replacement level, lots of guys have had a good month and then fell apart.

I blog, therefore I am.

by Tom Dakers on Oct 10, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get what you mean

but then it’s not really fair that because a player only gets called up later in the year:
1) hasn’t played enough to be considered for the ROY
and
2) is eliminated from being the ROY the following year, because he played too much.

Now that ain’t fair.

That’s why I’d still have Lawrie in my top 3, as well as Hellickson and Pineda

by REMO on Oct 10, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

no I know, I've considered that

I don’t even really know how to articulate my point. it’s just a point of what I feel is “fair” subjectively, really

by benk on Oct 10, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you though, Jono411

I don’t see why an injury (Lawrie) and cheap management (Jennings) should prevent the two most exciting rookies this year from winning the ROY. Yeah, I get it was a small sample but it was still enough to negate their ROY eligibility for next year. I think they should get just as much consideration as the rest of the (IMO rather unimpressive) field.

Hic sunt fortuna dracones

by JaysfanDL on Oct 10, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is often a skew though with rookie players. Lawrie came up and destroyed the league pitching in his debut. But he wasn’t up long enough to have a proper tape built and profiling him for opposing pitchers. There’s been a lot of guys who have come up late in a season, ripped the cover off of it looking like the next coming of Mickey Mantle, and than gone into the tank by the next June because the pitchers have adapted to them and their weaknesses. Or in the case of a pitcher, guys who hit the first 200 innings of their career and numbers fade badly after the All-Star break.

It might be a little unfair, but there’s certainly examples that question judging someone on a partial season.

by dexfarkin on Oct 10, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

"wasn’t up long enough to have a proper tape built and profiling him for opposing pitchers"

people say stuff like that a lot, and it really bugs me. he’s played 3 years of professional baseball. do you not think there’s tape/scouting reports/etc of him given to opposing pitchers the moment he reaches the majors? i certainly assume any mlb organization is doing that. i really think that this “rookie adjustment” thing is total BS. (not that i don’t think hitters/pitchers are constantly making adjustments, it’s just that i see no reason why this would be more true about rookies than other players).

and as for “There’s been a lot of guys who have come up late in a season, ripped the cover off of it looking like the next coming of Mickey Mantle, and than gone into the tank by the next June because the pitchers have adapted to them and their weaknesses.” well, there have been a lot of players (not just rookies) that have had incredible hot stretches only to fade later. i’ve never seen any evidence that this is more true of rookies than it is of any other players. i think it’s probably just selective memory.

by Jono411 on Oct 11, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

people say stuff like that a lot, and it really bugs me. he’s played 3 years of professional baseball. do you not think there’s tape/scouting reports/etc of him given to opposing pitchers the moment he reaches the majors? i certainly assume any mlb organization is doing that. i really think that this "rookie adjustment" thing is total BS. (not that i don’t think hitters/pitchers are constantly making adjustments, it’s just that i see no reason why this would be more true about rookies than other players).

There is a massive difference between the tape generated at the MLB level and that of AAA and below. Most prospects are profiled based on a number of scouting reports and a very limited amount of tape. As opposed to the book on them by the end of a season which will include hundreds of at-bats or thousands of pitches thrown. The assumption that every organization is generating tons of tape on even just the farm system of the opposing teams in the league in order to put together tapes for players that might make it to the majors is the sillier assumption. The Jays are considered to have significantly improved their scouting staff and even AA says in interviews that they might see a guy they like a dozen times at best.

Short answer is that when a rookie steps to the plate, you’ve got small sample sizes, scout impressions, and maybe a limited amout of tape to study. By the end of the year, you’ve got 400+ ABs with every possible metric broken down against pitchers at the MLB level. Which do you think is more likely to generate the better advantage for the pitcher?

As for your second point, it’s not about comparing ‘hot streaks’ between players. It is saying that, unlike a random hot streak for another player, that there are definite factors that can be looked at as generating an initial advantage. When the hitter has thousands of your pitches on tape to study and break down, and you have less than 100 ABs to work with, again, who has the advantage in that scenario?

I mean, selective memory? How about logic instead?

by dexfarkin on Oct 11, 2011 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

but we don't really know that your first paragraph is true

even look on youtube, there are plenty of videos of even the most mediocre players that can be studied. it’s not like all you have to go on is “he hits from the right side of the plate.” yeah, there’s likely some difference between the quality of tape and stats to go on, but there’s obviously something

by benk on Oct 11, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd think that, logically speaking,

1) there’s a lot more tape available on MLB players; and 2) tape likely helps prepare pitchers and batters for facing one another. I would think that both 1 and 2 are safe assumptions, thus — given the same exact skillsets — it should be somewhat more difficult to face someone who has been in the majors a bit longer.

Of course, this does somewhat ignore the fact that rookies are likely making adjustments on the fly as well.

I think there are strong and weak points to both sides of the coin. That said, everyone is going to make a tradeoff somewhere. If a guy bats 150 times and hits .350 / .500 / .700, there’s a pretty good chance he’s deserving unless Jose Bautista is eligible.

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Oct 11, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I never said there was no tape. What I said was this:

There is a massive difference between the tape generated at the MLB level and that of AAA and below. Most prospects are profiled based on a number of scouting reports and a very limited amount of tape

Minor league ballparks are generally not equipped with many camera points, and only 19 have proper Pitch f/x cameras. MiLB coverage, even since MiLB tv, is still spotty, and the further you get from AAA, the less coverage there is. Most YouTube videos are on the other side of useless since they almost never have a clean angle on the pitch, the plate and the swing arc of the batter.

by dexfarkin on Oct 11, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just don't think your first paragraph is true

there are at least a few teams that have ridiculously large video databases, and most teams have people in the front office whose sole job is to cut tape and assemble these types of scouting videos. while obviously there is more available video for major league plate appearances, i think it’s a huge stretch to say there aren’t enough available minor league videos to be able to create nearly as good a scouting report on a player.

if not, this is a HUGE inefficiency that a smart team could take advantage of. so while it’s definitely possible that you’re right, it seems much more likely to me that you’re not.

by Jono411 on Oct 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you assume that Pitch f/x is only a very minor scouting/player development tool with minimal effect on player preperation, your argument holds up.

by dexfarkin on Oct 11, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. Pineda
2. Trumbo
3. Hellickson

by Siver on Oct 10, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Hellickson, Pineda, Trumbo

JPA would be 4th…

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Oct 10, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Pineda, trumbo, ackley… It’s really a tough call this season though

by highvoltagerob on Oct 10, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

it's true

no one really blew the field away, though it looked like Pineda was going to

by benk on Oct 10, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. Pineda
2. Arencibia
3. Hellickson

Was a tough one this year though as no one really stood out, and yes I am a homer voting for JPA

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by kudzupo on Oct 10, 2011 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Pineda
Hellickson
Ackley

by STZ513 on Oct 10, 2011 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Pineda
Hosmer
Hellickson

by outoforder87 on Oct 10, 2011 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

1. Pineda
2. Trumbo
3. Hellickson

"What's so special about Lou Gehrig? Shouldn't EVERY Yankee have a disease named after him? "

by Sean Coleman on Oct 10, 2011 2:43 PM EDT reply actions  

1. Pineda
2. Hellickson
3. Lawrie

Do you have a young, talented cost controlled player having a down year who's "attitude" has cased problems with an aging player or manager?

Don't worry, I Alex Anthopoulos will take him off your hands, I'll even give you some moderately useful veterans that will "help you make a playoff run".

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by jaysfan100 on Oct 10, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Pineda

Followed by Ackley and Hellickson

by Woodman663 on Oct 10, 2011 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Three Hitters

1. Ackley
2. Hosmer
3. Hellickson

Though Ackley should win flat out he was one of the top hitting middle infielders in the league for most of the year, he tailed off to the end, but he still put up a pretty good batting line.

Also even though this isn’t the real voting it isn’t necesarily a good thing for Lawrie to Win ROY as his arbitration numbers would be alot higher and he would cost the Jays alot more.

fWAR Since Trade: Shaun Marcum: 2.7 Brett Lawrie: 2.8

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by Bluebirdz on Oct 10, 2011 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Regarding Lawrie & WAR

I’m not sure I understand why there is broad consensus that WAR is a good metric of value that accounts for playing time, but gets thrown out the window when considering the Rookie of the Year.

I really don’t get why one would de facto exclude from consideration a significant cohort of rookies who debut after midseason, regardless of their performance and value to their team.

by gabrielsyme on Oct 10, 2011 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

It's the same reason people use xFIP...

…when describing someone’s season in a purely retrospective manner. They don’t understand the stat.

WAR accounts for playing time, so that arguement is bunk.

by Sivvi on Oct 10, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's about misunderstanding the stat at all

To be honest, the whole “predictive” vs. “purely retrospective” argument is bunk to me. It strikes me as strange that the same people who use linear weights (!) to analyze a position player’s contributions with the bat then turn around and say that stats like xFIP are being improperly used “in a purely retrospective manner.”

wOBA is an estimation of a batter’s performance based on context-neutral outcomes after fielding. xFIP is an estimation of a pitcher’s performance based on context-neutral outcomes as well, it’s just bases them on fewer possible outcomes (strikeout, walk, groundball, flyball).

When folks say FIP is a better indicator stat, I really don’t see how they’re making that conclusion. fWAR gets around the problem of using straight FIP because it uses park and league adjustment factors to correct for the fact that HR/fly-rate can be greatly affected by pitcher park. However, if you want to compare context-neutral performances of pitchers who played in different parks (preferably in the same league), xFIP at least attempts some sort of park-adjustment.

I really don’t get how context-neutral offensive stats can be useful for “indicative” purposes but context-neutral pitching stats are only useful for “predictive” purposes.

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Oct 10, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Might be a psychological thing

I assume people don’t like eliminating a variable from a formula that only uses 3 of them.
As we’ve discussed before, I prefer FIP for descriptive purposes since I think that the HR/FB component of xFIP should be regressed back to some weighted average (based on number of BIP) of league average rate and the pitcher’s career rate because I don’t buy the “everyone should give up 10.5% HR/FB in the long run” claim any more than you (or I) buy the “all pitchers should have a .290-.300 BABIP in the long run” argument.

Another psychological factor may be that the FIP coefficients are much easier to work with in your mind than are the wOBA ones, so it makes wOBA seem more, I don’t know, complex, and thus more useful or more widely applicable.

If you have to use the sarcasm font, you're doing it wrong.

by Gerse on Oct 10, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you got me backwards

I’m saying FIP is the better descriptive stat, while xFIP is the better predictive stat, since it adds a regression variable to the equation. Regression has no place in descriptive stats, only in predictive.

by Sivvi on Oct 11, 2011 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

FIP regresses BABIP and sequencing

while xFIP regresses BABIP, sequencing, and HR-rate

So unless you’re going to argue that Run Average is the “better descriptive” stat, regressing the statistics is important.

In fact, even using Run Average technically regresses his performance back onto the offence since you’re describing his performance without taking the context of the score of each game into account. If the specific context matters so much, you should probably just use WPA or perhaps WPA/LI.

Every time we describe any player by any statistic we’re regressing his total performance (the y-variable) on that stat. (the x-variable). That’s why wOBA is better than OPS at describing a player’s offensive output.

If you don’t want to use WPA, you’re already normalizing for contexts. Regression absolutely has importance in descriptive stats. If you don’t think that it’s important to normalize a pitcher’s homerun-rate based on his park and league (personally, I do think it is, though I don’t know that the xFIP method is necessarily any better than normalizing based on park factors and using FIP- or something like that) then that’s fine, you don’t have to.

But don’t just assume that the folks who do aren’t understanding statistics.

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Oct 11, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should have been more clear

FIP does not regress things the pitcher has control over, only those things that they don’t. xFIP regresses home run rate, which I feel a pitcher absolutely has control over, and thus it makes it a useless descriptive stat imo. Saying “The pitcher did this good, if only all those balls stayed in the park” really tells people nothing at all about the season he had. Saying “a pitcher is likely to do this good in the future if his HR rate normalizes” is an amazingly useful piece of information going forward.

To a much lesser extent do pitchers have control over their BABIP, as it’s considered a defense dependant stat, and thus it’s regressed to form both a better descriptive and predictive story.

If this wasn’t the case, there would be no need for both FIP and xFIP, the reason that they exsist as seperate things is because one is designed to be strictly defense independant and thus be an accurate description of a pitcher’s performance, while the other is ment to show probable regression to the mean for a major variable that pitchers have some control over (but that still does tend to regress to the mean over time).

by Sivvi on Oct 11, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

one season worth of FIP data

hugely underestimates the importance of random and park effects in a pitcher’s HR/fly-rate

For all MLB teams in 2011, correlation between HR yielded at home and HR yielded on the road

p = 0.06
Rsq = 0.09

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Oct 11, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

correlation between team HR/fly-rate at home and team HR/fly-rate on road

p = 0.18
rsq = 0.03

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Oct 11, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fun tidbit:

Brett Lawrie had the highest WAR/PA of all rookie batters since 1960 (arbitrary bound) with at least 90 PA.
Stripping out fielding and baserunning, he had the 15th highest wRC+ given the same conditions

Obviously SSS and the error bars on WAR make this unreliable, but it’s interesting all the same.

If you have to use the sarcasm font, you're doing it wrong.

by Gerse on Oct 10, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reason, I suppose, that you'd exclude low-PA players...

Of all players since 1960 with 50+ PA in their rookie season:
0 of the top 20 (0%) by WAR/PA played at least 82 games (I figure 82 games is a more forgiving condition than ~350 PA)
8 of the top 50 (16%)
21 of the top 100 (21%)
60 of the top 200 (30%)
184 of the top 500 (36.8%)
461 of the top 1000 (46.1%)
1084 of the top 2500 (43.4%)

That trend would be the argument for regressing a rookie’s stats, I guess. I don’t think that I necessarily agree with it, since I think voting should be based on observed performance, not projected, but that’s the argument.

*I’m aware that this boils down to “SSS”, but I figured the numbers are interesting.

 —————
I guess the solution to the problem posed in your last sentence – which I agree with – is to increase the cap required to qualify for Rookie status. The issue with any number you pick is that it ends up giving YearX+1 rookie an unfair number of PAs in YearX to acclimate to MLB pitching, so there’s some work to be done to figure out a fairer number. Perhaps base it on the season in which the player passes some number of career PAs? I’m sure someone has a good idea here, jump in.

If you have to use the sarcasm font, you're doing it wrong.

by Gerse on Oct 10, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

1) Pineda; the BB/K ratio is what mainly does it for me.
2) Trumbo; Since he’s a rookie, I’ll be kinder to his god-awfu BB rate, with those homers and some good D. I’ll take it.
3) Ackley. Show terriffic AB’s for a rookie and the BB/K rates were great.

by Adamthebluejay on Oct 10, 2011 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I absolutely hate the Yankees, but I would say Nova. I just feel he did a remarkable job stepping into the rotation with that kind of New York pressure on him. How many rookies have we seen fail in New York? To be able to just cling to that spot in the Yankee rotation speaks for itself as a rookie.

by Joey P on Oct 10, 2011 8:42 PM EDT reply actions  

My 3

Hellickson
Pineda
Hosmer

by sportsguy2905 on Oct 10, 2011 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Value, not playing time.

The pitchers are interesting, in that they all have major flaws:
Nova & Hellickson have pedestrian peripherals & hence poorish DIPS numbers. Pineda had great peripherals, but a 3.74 ERA and went 9-10.

So, all hitters:

1. Lawrie
2. Ackley
3. Jennings

by gabrielsyme on Oct 11, 2011 7:08 AM EDT reply actions  

1. Pineda
2. Hosmer
3. Hellickson

by khaleeji on Oct 11, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

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