The problem with awards
I wanted to write about the MVP award yesterday. I wanted to rant and scream about some of the idiots at the writers association getting the vote wrong. I wanted to go on and on about this antiquated group of individuals who can't see past their own bias and traditional stats. It would have been great and cathartic to blow off steam.
You might ask "Well Johnny where is it then?", and the answer to that isn't all that complicated. For one, I am very very lazy. Next, many writers around the blogosphere (who are mountains more talented than I) already expressed the same sentiment. And finally , was anyone really surprised about this?
I mean honestly, was there anyone out there reading this blog or anywhere for this matter that didn't expect this or something similar was going to happen? It seems that every year we go nuts for these awards and every year there is something that the majority of people seem to point at and go "You picked that guy? Are you on glue?"
A lot of people like to point at the writers as being the ones to blame and while they certainly are the easiest target (Michael Young? REALLY??!@?!?). I don't think they are the biggest problem. The biggest problem that I see with this award is actually quite simple. Go into any room that has a number of baseball fans and simply ask the question, "What do you think Most Valuable Means?". You are going to get a different answer from just about everyone in that room.
We can disagree with the writers (and we do) as much as humanly possible. The bottom line is with the current structure of the awards, they aren't wrong. Since the most valuable player seems to take on whatever the individual voter wants it to be, then whatever they do is right. If you want to make Michael Young your MVP by whatever crazy idiotic off the wall ideas you have then go ahead. Granted if you are going to do something that nuts you better be prepared to back it up.
This of course leads into the second issue that I have with the awards. They can't be impartial. You can argue that professional writers are impartial people all you want. I call BS. There is no way possible that the fact that you have to interact on a daily basis with players and the team doesn't affect your decisions. Like having access to certain player? It can't get any easier to get on someone's good side then by writing a nice fluff piece about them. If the voting was done in secret we wouldn't have as big of a problem, but it isn't. Writers like to post their ballots with their reasoning, this drives page views. You think John Lott's ballot is generating as many page hits as Evan Grant's? Over the past two days Evan Grant (the guy who voted Young and put Bautista 7th) is getting a crazy amount of page hits and attention on twitter. You better believe he is sitting at home laughing like crazy. He just guaranteed his job and can rationalize it to himself that his vote didn't change the overall results.
Overall I am disappointed with the results, but I am biased obviously. I would not have voted Verlander for MVP, but I get the argument behind it. He had a great year as did Bautista and Ellsbury. I am not as angry at the overall results as some but I am still irked that something like MVP balloting can be used to further a personal agenda.
Please baseball, Im begging here. Take back the awards, Make them all voted on by the Players association or by owners/gms or league officials. Give the awards guidelines so everyone knows exactly what they are for without pause. If you want to have most valuable that contributed to his team making the playoffs go ahead! Just tell everyone that up front to avoid the damned headache. Let the BBWAA have their awards with vague definitions. Soon enough the more important ones would be the official MLB ones anyways.
My wish List
Most Valuable player - Player that provided the most value both offensively and defensively to their teams season success.
Most Outstanding position player - Best overall player, awarded regardless of team success
Most Outstanding pitcher - Best overall pitcher, awarded regardless of team success
And all the rest.....
Sound off in the comments, How would you want the awards to break down? What criteria and who votes on them?
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Should name it "Most Successful Player Award"
Because most valuable to a team’s success could still be Andrew McCutchen’s contribution to a 75-win Pittsburgh team. In a way, that is success, cuz it’s Pittsburgh.
I was getting at playoffs but sure. Tighten up wording more.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I think, in your scenario, the MVP becomes redundant
And comparing hitters and pitchers are apples and oranges blah blah blah.
All that the BBWAA has to do is just replace the Hank Aaron Award with the MVP. The fact that the Hank Aaron is fan-voted makes it not as “prestigious” or “recognized” as the MVP or CY, so just let the BBWAA vote.
No Dad, What About You?!
Rookie writer at Baseball Canadiana
Twitter? I hardly know her!
I don't think player voting is a good idea...
Pretty sure Granderson won the player’s choice for most outstanding player. I think having GMs vote might work since they (hopefully) know what makes a player valuable to a team (ie they know not to evaluate anyone based on RBIs). At first I thought a problem with this would be that GMs would always vote for their own players, but the opposite might happen, they wouldn’t want their player to win the MVP to drive down their cost in arbitration or whatever.
No solution is perfect, I guess.
Perfect Solution #1
Perfect the WAR statistic, use it as a measure of all player talent
Though that seems extremely difficult and not something I would want to attempt
I don't always like to tweet, but when I do it's @HouseOfTheBB
And when more than 140 characters are needed, I write at HouseOfTheBluebird.com
The real issue here isn't that we need new awards
The Hank Aaron award just needs to get more hype as it already shows the best hitter in the league,
I don't always like to tweet, but when I do it's @HouseOfTheBB
And when more than 140 characters are needed, I write at HouseOfTheBluebird.com
yeah, but it's fan-voted
really, that’s dumb.
No Dad, What About You?!
Rookie writer at Baseball Canadiana
Twitter? I hardly know her!
though I'm not saying the BBWAA is any smarter
No Dad, What About You?!
Rookie writer at Baseball Canadiana
Twitter? I hardly know her!
I thought fans only had a portion of the vote
And a panel actually decided on the winner, with Aaron having final say?
And it should be given out like the other major awards, between the CYA and the MVP, not in the middle of the WS.
It should also be given to the best position player, considering both their hitting and fielding.
Then we could either do away with the MVP or allow it to be given to the player who is considered the MVP (definition needed), not necessarily the best player.
by Defense Counts! on Nov 22, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
One other thing ...
Will we really need two MVP, CYA, ROY with all the interleague games on their way? No other league does this.
by Defense Counts! on Nov 22, 2011 10:30 PM EST reply actions
A lot of players have clauses that activate when they win..or place in the running for some arbitrary award
I’ll never understand why fans feel slighted.
I don’t feel slighted.
But that is another perfect example of how it cant work. A writer votes for a specific player triggering a bonus, the player feels grateful to the writer and takes them out for dinner, buys em a watch or something.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
you wanted to rant and scream
but you don’t feel slighted?
Overall I am disappointed with the results, but I am biased obviously. I would not have voted Verlander for MVP, but I get the argument behind it. He had a great year as did Bautista and Ellsbury. I am not as angry at the overall results as some but I am still irked that something like MVP balloting can be used to further a personal agenda.
I dont feel slighted at all, Yes I wanted to rant and scream about the whole thing but in the end couldn’t really do it. Not about the results anyways.
Wasn’t my choice for MVP but I do get the logic people put into voting Verlander.
My main gripe is about the entire process and having people that are not separated from the players voting on something that could benefit the players.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Maybe Im just reading you wrong, but I take slighted to mean that I take it personally.
I dont.
Doesn’t mean I can’t have opinions on the whole thing though.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I'm not trolling
I guess stuff like this has never really grabbed my interest…prospect rankings some guy made..gold gloves..MVPs..I guess i can see where you’re coming from as it pertains to the Hall though. I don’t know if you agree but it really bothers me that sportswriters decide who gets in. The logical thing to me always seemed to be..let the surviving members be the caretakers of the keys to Cooperstown
Im with you there.
But there are issues with the hall voting too you are right. I hate how people gain steam. People not good enough one year and all of sudden better the next?
I suppose its just bitching for the sake of bitching at some point.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
we need a Facebook campaign to take the Hall of Fame away from the sports writers.
Occupy the Hall…I bet Robbie would join :)
SBNation Best Players Award, sponsored by Gillette
Format would have to be figured out, for example a modified version of Tom and the other SBN bloggers’ AL/NL MVP/CY voting or whatever, based on WAR or so, tbd.
Gillette because there should be a sponsor coming up with some nice award and who is interested in the publicity of handing over the award.
Or something like that ;)
"They had players who had more hair on their backs than on their heads. Obviously they have more experience," Thomas Müller of Bayern Munich after losing against Inter Milan.
I think whatever you do, you need to have set criteria.
Its the vagueness that causes all of the problems.
People can make fun of Evan Grant all they want, but bottom line he voted Michael Young for 1 of 2 reasons, 1) he actually believes it and Young meets his definition of MVP, by current voting guidelines thats good enough
or 2) he did it for some other reason be it personal or professional, but doesn’t really matter since everything is so vague he can hide behind that anyway.
Having 30ish writers all vote using personal set of criteria kinda makes a joke out of the whole thing.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Ted Williams
A case can be made that Ted Williams was robbed of the MVP award in 1941, 1942, 1947, 1948 and 1957. I guess he never treated baseball writers with enough respect.
I enjoyed and agree with this post
I also agree with ABSteve (all great Steves think alike, regardless of location) that this sort of stuff doesn’t really interest me. IMO there are two basic problems. First, it is that bias will always get in the way. Secondly, its hard for those who vote not to think about the backlash of making an apparently wrong selection and so it becomes a popularity contest in the end. All awards, not just in sport, have the same issues. Another issue is actually trying to quantify best. I don’t think Bautista was robbed of the award. It would have been nice, but a compelling argument could be made for or against any of the top 5 or 6 finishers. Its rare that one player is a clear cut winner. OK, so when do I get to the part where I agree with the post? At the very least it should be 2 MOP awards – one for player and one for pitcher. Just pick the player you think was the best, regardless of impact on the team, because that is BS anyway. And this year there were essentially two MVP awards for 1 pitcher and no awards for the best hitter. Doesn’t make sense to me.
To every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand and wrong
Best hitter got silver slugger and Hank Aaron.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
i would just change the definition of the MVP award to “most outstanding position player”, and then just have MVP for best position player and Cy Young for best pitcher. i don’t think any individual awards should have team success as a factor at all.
as for how the voting should work, i have two ideas:
1) allow more writers to vote, and in particular include guys from fangraphs, bpro, hardballtimes, etc.
2) allow anyone to vote: writers, bloggers, fans, players, whatever. then you’d basically have this: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/iba/
actually here's an idea
make voters be explicit about their methodology for ranking players. mlb could make a spreadsheet with every attribute that voters might want to use for determining their MVP winner: context neutral offense, context dependent offense, playing time, “heart”, “leadership”, defense, etc. some would be pre-filled in (like offense), and others the voters could fill in themselves (like “leadership”). then the voters can pick how much they want to weigh various attributes, and then the spreadsheet spits out the rankings that they want.
what this does is let people still be as subjective as they want, but it forces them to be consistent. so if you want to reward granderson because his team made the playoffs, now you need to reward everyone whose team made the playoffs. if you want to reward verlander for his team performing well while he was on the mound, now you need to reward every pitcher for their team performing well while they’re on the mound.
i think if we forced the current writers to be more consistent in their decisions, they’d make much better ballots.
that would be fun
you should design a model for that and give it to FanGraphs and then make millions upon millions of Internet Points

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