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Around SBN: In Crunch Time, Spurs Don't Change Their Game

Monday Bantering: Open Thread

I'm just about to start off for the airport, leaving a now sunny Vancouver (sure, when we have to leave it gets sunny, when we were wondering around town it was pouring rain) to go back to a wind ravaged Calgary. I'm pretty sure our house didn't blow away.

Not much for Jays news at the moment, Jose Molina signed with the Rays, he did a nice job for us but I'd rather have the draft pick (a sentence I won't be getting to write about players next year). 

We picked up a middle infielder, giving us a full set of 40 players on our 40-man roster, begging the question: Who would you DFA if you were the Jays and you needed a roster spot for a free agent or a trade? Our 40-man is here. Would you hope Brian Jeroloman make it through waivers this time? Maybe Brad Mills? Darin Mastroianni? Can discuss it or anything else you want in the thread.

We were a little slow getting to the airport on the way here so we are leaving a little early to get there today, just to average out better. Have a good Monday.

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I would DFA Teahen.

And I’m not familiar with: Andrew Carpenter, Jesse Chavez, and Evan Crawford. Are they any good?

"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)

by HESS2479 on Nov 28, 2011 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Evan Crawford has potential to be a good relief pitcher.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 28, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

yup, the other two should be off the 40-man, especially chavez. I imagine they will try to sneak them off the 40 man later.

by Sniderlover on Nov 28, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i dont see much use for Teahen

by Sniderlover on Nov 28, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

carpenter was a decent AAA starter in 09-10, and then got converted to relief last year and was filthy (in AAA still): 9.7 K/9, 1.7 BB/9. in 14 innings in the majors he kept the high K rate but the BB rate spiked to 4.3. his HR/FB% and BABIP were also really high but in a 14 inning sample those numbers are basically meaningless.

seems like he has a decent shot to contribute to our bullpen next year.

by Jono411 on Nov 28, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

that wind was straight up insane yesterday

Gusts up to 140 kmph..with a giant grass fire that almost took us out here in Lethbridge, couldn’t even see for the smoke, I was getting nervous.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

I don't mean to be this guy but you've misused "begging the question"

Begging the question does not mean raising the question but rather is a logical fallacy where one places the conclusion in the premise of an argument. It is similar to a circular argument. See here for more info.

As for the baseball, Mastroianni probably gets cut. He’s become redundant with Rasmus, Davis and the ability of Snider to fill in CF in a pinch. Jerololman is useful as a backup catcher and I have a sneaking suspicion that Valbuena may be our new starting 2B.

Hic sunt fortuna dracones

by JaysfanDL on Nov 28, 2011 2:03 PM EST reply actions  

Technically you are correct,

however in common parlance, usage of the “raising the question” meaning of “begging the question” has far surpassed the original, ‘correct’ meaning. Language evolves, without much caring for how ‘correct’ or not it is…

by Simon M on Nov 28, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Cut Mastro and Teahan

They’re as useful as tits on a bull.

by ayjackson on Nov 28, 2011 2:04 PM EST reply actions  

Mastro could maybe be okay

lots of players have down seasons. he’s definitely redundant on the Jays so I don’t care either way, but he could still be a useful 4th OF

by benk on Nov 28, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. Teahen was brutal in his stint with the jays, Absolutely horrible. A true slug

by Romero24 on Nov 28, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Please correct me if I am mistaken

But if the Jays DFA Teahen and another team claims him, the other team must pick up his guaranteed MLB contract. If that is the case, Teahen is the obvious first pick to DFA. He’s unlikely to be claimed at that price, but if he is, well that’s a bunch of money coming off the Jays’ books.

by siggian on Nov 28, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

That won’t happen for a couple of reasons, 1) nobody would claim him 2) unless the jays have somebody of high value who desperately needs that spot: the money owed to teahen is significant that it makes more sense financially to pay it over the course of the year rather than buying him out (see: time value of money) and 3) it is terrible optics to take a player with a guaranteed mlb contract and remove him from the league, the jays want to be buyers in the free agent market in the near future. This isn’t a good message to be sending.

by AkiSchennberg on Nov 28, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not saying the Jays buy him out

I am simply saying that for the off season now, the Jays remove him from the 40 man roster. He still gets paid his contract and, unless the Jays find a way to move him, he goes on to the 40 man as soon as a roster spot opens up or the Jays can stash an injured player on the DL, when that option becomes available.

by siggian on Nov 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

it is terrible optics to take a player with a guaranteed mlb contract and remove him from the league, the jays want to be buyers in the free agent market in the near future. This isn’t a good message to be sending.

Teams dump players with big salaries all the time and eat the contracts. What’s the problem here? And we weren’t even the ones who signed Teahen as a free agent, but inherited him as excess baggage.

by jabalong on Nov 28, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Teahen

If you DFA him, and o one claims him, I don’t believe you can just remove him from the 40 man. He would have the right to elect free agency, as he has more than 5 years MLB experience. Then he would be free to sign with any other tam at the minimum and the Jays would be on the hook for the rest.

by MjwW on Nov 28, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah

That must be why Teahen is still on the 40 man roster. Still, it’s an option, even if the Jays have to eat 4.5M of his 5M contract.

by siggian on Nov 29, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

For sure

In the end, the Jays will almost certainly eat most of it – whether they trade him and eat some of it, release him, or keep him and not get equivalent production. But it’s not big deal, it was just part of the cost of business of doing business to get Rasmus. Any time you can essentially swallow money instead of giving up talent, I’m happy with it.

by MjwW on Nov 29, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

cut jeroloman, teahen and mastroianni.

by Sniderlover on Nov 28, 2011 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder if the plan with Jeroloman

was to have him soak up knowledge being with the big club for a month to pass along to d’Arnaud next season.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

well he didn’t play so im not sure what kind of knowledge he could give to d’arnaud and I think Gomes will be promoted to triple A.

by Sniderlover on Nov 28, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll be surprised

If they don’t try to put him through waivers again soon. They did it once, clearly didn’t seem to mind losing him vs. having him hold the 40 man spot. We will need further 40 man spots this winter, including to get a more experienced back-up catcher (well, I guess anyone with some expierenece would have more experienced).

by MjwW on Nov 28, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Ken Davidoff of Newsday was on MLB radio this morning

 He said that after talking to execs that he knows, he thinks the Jays are signing Fielder. Which sparked a discussion at my workplace, a shorter deal..say 5 years with the highest AAV all time might be the kind of thing Boras would go for. Would leave Fielder young enough to go after another payday when the contract was up.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

5 year

$125 million?

Love. <3

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Nov 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking 150

Alex did say he’d rather overpay in the short term..and what’s with the snark other guy? Just making conversation about something I heard on the radio.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya I like the short term as well.

$30 mil? Might have to do it… then we get his prime years only!

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Nov 28, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

if he wants $30m AAV...

have to go shorter than 5 years. If I were him, I’d do a shorter contract. He hits FA again at 31-32 and another big payday.

by ayjackson on Nov 28, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

though at his next payday, he’s likely a DH

by ayjackson on Nov 28, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

right now

he’s likely a dh

I don't always like to tweet, but when I do it's @HouseOfTheBB
And when more than 140 characters are needed, I write at HouseOfTheBluebird.com

by Bluebirdz on Nov 28, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

he`s not going to get paid like a DH

my point is, in four years, he`s more likely to be a DH and therefore paid like one. Fielder will be playing first base next year (unless the Yankees sign him) and he will be paid like a position player.

by ayjackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

MLBPA

Supposedly the union frowns upon guys accepting fewer guaranteed dollars. I’m sure many teams would line up to bid on his services if they could do it at a 3-4 year deal.

Twitterin @NorthYorkJays

by NorthYorkJays on Nov 28, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Snark re:me?

I wanted to hear more. Serious request and like.

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Something like this?

OH YEAH suuuuuure I ‘like’ this story 0_o.

Please GOOOOOOOO ON! (jerk)…

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

yeah something like that, Fielder and Votto can be dirty words on these blogs..I was apprehensive about posting it.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't be.

This time of year we’re all starving for Jays news and we’re all friends here.

Am I right guys?

Ahh guys?

Hello?

*crickets

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Everyone is the competition in this blog eat blog world…

But in all seriousness, it is hard to detect sarcasm on blogs so people will usually make it very obvious it they don’t like what you’re saying like ’ DO NOT LIKE" or something to that effect.

by Dr_Furious on Nov 28, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Pretty much anyone...

there is a whole bunch of guys there that are easily replaceable. Considering the storm of talent coming through the minors starting in 2013, I wouldn’t mind seeing a few windows blown out this season. Mastroianni obviously with all the outfielders in the system. Mills doesn’t look that good even as a reliever.
Then you have guys like Magnuson, Chaves, Carpenter and Beck who can be sacrificed if necessary. If remember correctly Farina is having TJ surgery so he’ll be stashed on the DL.

by voislav on Nov 28, 2011 3:04 PM EST reply actions  

I see no value in Brad Mills, correct me if I’m wrong but his fastball (and I use the term loosely) was clocking at 85 last year. That’s laughable, he’s Henry Rowengartner at the end of Rookie of the year.

by AkiSchennberg on Nov 28, 2011 3:13 PM EST reply actions  

FWIW

Marcum’s fastball isn’t that much quicker than Mills’ but he seems to be thriving.

I agree with you in that I don’t see much value in Mills, but to me it’s more that he’s not able to precisely spot his fastball than his actual velocity. He’s not able to consistently hit the bottom corners and so either walks a guy or gets hit hard.

by siggian on Nov 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Marcum throws almost an MPH and a half faster

and also has a devastating cutter and change. Mills doesn’t have either.

by benk on Nov 28, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

My point was

You don’t have to have velocity to pitch in MLB (though it can help if you do) and Marcum was the first slow pitcher who doesn’t throw a knuckleball that came to mind.

Unfortunately, Mills doesn’t have enough other stuff in his arsenal to make up for slow fastball. Personally, I think he should go and get some lessons from Wakefield if he wants to extend his career.

by siggian on Nov 29, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Things to discuss:

Nestor Molina future Jays closer as per Farrell on the Fan this morning.

Albert Pujols is reportedly visiting Toronto tomorrow. No one knows why.

Minor Leaguer and I are starting a taco stand business! Viva el Tacos!

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

But, but, I thought you said...

Remember the little Mexican in the vending machine idea?

You weren’t serious?

What about the bank loan I just took out? What am I supposed to do with 800 lbs of green salsa?!!

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Nestor

He doesn’t say he’s the future closer, just that they’ve discussed it. I could see it happening, but he should get a chance at the rotation at least.

by Woodman663 on Nov 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind it for a couple of years...

like what the Rangers are doing with their young pitchers.

by voislav on Nov 28, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Pujols reportedly visiting Toronto brings to mind all the Manny sightings last year.

by Parallex on Nov 28, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

where?

did you see the Pujols info?

by Beleaf on Nov 28, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

AA's doing his due dilligence.

210+ million for 9 years? Probably not.

Of course, according to Deadspin, his agent is quite a sleazeball.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Nov 28, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Saw that.

Strippers are going to make some money tomorrow night.

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

doesn’t he represent Jimmy Rollins too.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t tear up I just get uncontrollably giddy when I see them wearing the new uniforms

Follow me @Minor_Leaguer

by Minor Leaguer on Nov 28, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't wait for the commercials for next season.

Anyone have a line on what the motto for the the Blue Jays 2012 campaign is gonna be?

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Nov 28, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Back to Blue?

Just an idea

I don't always like to tweet, but when I do it's @HouseOfTheBB
And when more than 140 characters are needed, I write at HouseOfTheBluebird.com

by Bluebirdz on Nov 28, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Back In Blue

Set to a thumping AC/DC track with slightly modified lyrics…

by siggian on Nov 29, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This is brilliant

You could make a great 30-second spot out of just the chorus.

My Mo Space

by durga2112 on Nov 29, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Hustle + Heart

Blue.0

No Dad, What About You?!
Rookie writer at Baseball Canadiana
Twitter? I hardly know her!

by Pikachu on Nov 28, 2011 9:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Not much for Jays news at the moment, Jose Molina signed with the Rays, he did a nice job for us but I’d rather have the draft pick (a sentence I won’t be getting to write about players next year).

On one hand, I’ve enjoyed AA’s creative supplementary pick wheeling and dealing, and was bummed originally to hear about the new CBA. But on further consideration, I’m happy about it now.

Maybe it will mean the end of a spare-part, short-term fix approach to certain positions, with a rotating door of guys at certain positions primarily driven by draft compensation calculations.

Maybe it will allow us to keep veteran players for longer or alternatively open the door to the team giving more young guys a shot at certain positions.

Take backup catcher this year, I’d have enjoyed having Jose Molina come back, and maybe we’d have brought him back if there wasn’t this compensation pick calculation (he only signed a one-year deal with an option with the Rays).

Or failing that, maybe removing the compensation pick appeal of rotating in another veteran on a short-term deal, opens the door for the Jays to consider giving a young guy like Brian Jeroloman a shot at the backup job.

Same goes for our bullpen, where last offseason seemed to be about signing as many veteran relievers as possible who could net us future compensation picks. Maybe under the new CBA, we give more of our young guys a shot at bullpen jobs.

by jabalong on Nov 28, 2011 5:27 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Considering that two of those vet relievers we signed (Dotel/Frasor) helped land us Colby Rasmus I ain’t gonna complain.

by Parallex on Nov 28, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Jonathon Broxton

Apparently he’s not resigning with LA. Maybe Toronto could give him a shot. He had a pretty horrible 2011, but we need relief help, why not sign him to a 1-yr or 2 yr deal and see if he can regain his form? He’s only a1 year removed from two consecutive all star appearances. I’d like to see AA at least make a run at him.

by outoforder87 on Nov 28, 2011 5:52 PM EST reply actions  

Considering what Nathan got, Broxton might end up being more expensive than some other options. It’s a weird offseason.

by dexfarkin on Nov 28, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Broxton

is apparently only looking for a 1 yr deal so he would be worth a flier on.

by boltspeedman on Nov 28, 2011 6:18 PM EST reply actions  

options

If he accepts a 1 or 2 year with team options, he’s ours

by khaleeji on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

MLB Traderumours say the Pirates will listen to offers for McCutchen.

Good thing I’m not the GM or the insanely deep farm system would be gutted..absolutely love that guy.

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 6:30 PM EST reply actions  

he's a great player, for sure

but we have Rasmus and he’s gonna cost a buttload

by SuckaMD on Nov 28, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

oh yeah I know

I just have irrational man-crushes on some players..maybe it’s the uni, I was a huge Barry Bonds fan when I was a kid

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

McCutchen is a fantastic player

but that discussion starts with Lawrie and almost definitely includes some of Romero, Escobar, Morrow, d’Arnaud, Gose, etc

by benk on Nov 28, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Red Sox keep asking for Farrell.

If I were AA I’d be upping the price. John Lester.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Nov 28, 2011 7:39 PM EST reply actions  

I would too

but mostly because I’m not a huge fan of Buttholes

by benk on Nov 28, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

tell them they have to write YANKEES RULE in giant letters accross the monster

by ABsteve on Nov 28, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Jon Heyman SI

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/11/28/december.storylines/index.html?eref=writers

One would think this is a dead issue, but “Red Sox interested in John Farrell” keeps popping up again.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Nov 28, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

I think he’s just noting (in the context of there being a split in the Red Sox front office about which way to go) that they were (“have been” – past tense, though you can infer that it continues) interested, but the Jays slammed the door by asking for Buchholtz. Though again, the “is showing” suggests it’s ongoing, but that might just be sloppy language.

by MjwW on Nov 28, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

MVP ballot

hey, at least he gave solid reasoning for ballot and seems reasonable based on his criteria?

by edliuen on Nov 28, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

eh

they should just do away with the word “valuable”. But who cares?!

No Dad, What About You?!
Rookie writer at Baseball Canadiana
Twitter? I hardly know her!

by Pikachu on Nov 28, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I like

“The Most Player”. Brett Lawrie would always win.

by gabrielsyme on Nov 29, 2011 2:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Jays should just say give us one of lester/ellsbury/pedroia/buchholz and you can have him, otherwise don’t bother asking

by Sniderlover on Nov 28, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

DFA

Looking at Cott’s, I’d say Teahen, Lind, Encarnacion, Davis are candidates to DFA. I don’t mean all at the same time, just as needed. They have sizeable but not painful salaries. If anyone wanted them, try to work a deal; if you had to let them go for nothing, you could easily replace them for about the same money. (Sounds cold-hearted, especially as I like all but Teahen, but I’ve rather protect young pitchers and middle infielders.)

by terry the censor on Nov 29, 2011 2:29 AM EST reply actions  

DFAing is for fringe players

Lind, Encarnacion and Davis will not be DFA’d. Teahen is a fringe player, but his contract isn’t, so a DFA would be a last resort for him

by khaleeji on Nov 29, 2011 3:27 AM EST up reply actions  

You’d get rid of the easiest guy to replace based on supply and demand.

by Joey P on Nov 29, 2011 5:58 PM EST reply actions  

Win Now

Even as a Red Sox fan,I am hoping the Jays will eventually open the vault and sign Fielder. I can’t remember a better time, or place, for a player to go then Prince to the Jays. 1: After so many years of losing,and with the great Jose Batista in his prime, it would make tons of sense to put him in the middle of that order,batting cleanup,behind Bautista.. with Lind batting 5th and Kelly Johnson batting 6th,you are looking at a potential 120 HR’s from 4 players.You would be getting another 100 walks player to go with Batista,making oposing pitchers have to work that much harder. Adding Fielder would put the Jays back on the map as ligitimate contenders,much like Manny Ramarez did for Boson back in 2001. As free agents go, Fielder is one of the safest bets I’ve ever seen, to warrant a large contract. His track record shows durability and incredible talent that may have not yet peaked, at age 27. With Skydome becoming a hitters paradise lately,the sky would be the limit for Prince. That being said, they should also be in on the Gio Gonzales sweepstakes,and trying to sign one of the following relievers. Luis Ayala,T Saito or Darrin Oliver. Oliver would help make up for the loss of Downs..Another thing about Halliday. The Jays actually owned him through the 2010 season, but chose to deal him a year early. Roy’s 2010 season would probably have put the team in the PS that year. With Roy,Marcum, Romero and Downs, you could have gone along way. Do other Jays fans regret that hasty move?

by Robert57 on Dec 13, 2011 8:56 AM EST reply actions  

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