Today in Bluebird Banter History: Roy Halladay Trade
by Tom Dakers on Dec 14, 2011 2:00 PM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays History
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PrintTwo years ago today Roy Halladay was traded.
After a confusing couple of days worth of rumors, we had the trade. Roy Halladay and $6 million to the Phillies for Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud. Taylor was immediately moved to Oakland for Brett Wallace, who, for a few months was our first baseman of the future. Then he was traded to Houston for Anthony Gose, our current center fielder of the future.
Two seasons later, we still can't judge the deal from the Blue Jays end. I'm sure the Phillies are happy. Doc has won them 40 games and they have been in the playoffs both years.
On our side:
- Kyle Drabek looked good in 2009, but 2010 was a lost year for him, or maybe it was the strike zone that got lost. I'd like to think he can turn things around but he doesn't look like the sure thing that he did a year ago.
- Travis d'Arnaud had an ok 2010 but then a terrific 2011, hitting .311/.371/.542 for the Fisher Cats. A good 2012 in Vegas and Alex is going to have a great problem on his hands.
- Michael Taylor had 30 lousy at bats for the A's last season and hit .272/.360/.456 in Triple-A Sacramento, not great numbers for the PCL. The guy we got for Taylor, Brett Wallace, played 115 games for the Astros in 2011 hitting .259/.334/.354, not the numbers you would want out of a first baseman. So I'm happy we have Anthony Gose.
So will the help of 2 years worth of hindsight, what do you think of the trade?
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Right now
The trade looks fairly reasonable, considering we gave up a future HOFer who wanted out and had a very short list of destinations which he would agree to be traded to. I don’t think you can ever “win” a trade like that, but the Jays seem to have made out okay (and it looks much, much better since AA was able to turn Taylor into Wallace into Gose).
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Sometimes I wish we could've somehow kept Roy
Especially considering pitching is our biggest need at this time. But, seeing as the 3 kids we got for him still have high upsides, I’m happy with the deal
He wanted out though and he wanted to go to the Phillies
Considering AA’s hands were tied, I still like this deal. I think D’Arnaud alone could potentially make it worth it.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
If you consider the trade as
Halladay for d’Arnaud, Drabek and Gose, then I’m pretty good with it. d’Arnaud is one of the top prospects in baseball right now, Gose has some of the best tools in the minors and Drabek still has a shot. Can’t expect much more than this…
AA is my favourite manager, and I still think this was a bad trade.
AA right now is one of the youngest, brightest GMs in the league. However, the trade for Halladay saw Kyle Drabek, Travis D’arnaud, and Michael Tayor come to the Jays in exchange for our franchise player. Taylor was quickly shipped to the A’s for Brett Wallace. Aswell as Wallace going to Houston for Anothny Gose. Today, with Roy Halladay as our number 1 starter we have a very good chance at making the playoffs this season. And last season you can argue we were a 20 game winner away from the playoffs as well. Roy Halladay was one of the best in the history of the game at piching in the tallented AL East, and now when the divisoin is stronger than ever it seems like the help of Roy Halladay at the top of our rotatoin the sky is the limit for the young blue jays. Out of the 3 prospects we recieved in return we have only seen a glimpse as one as in Drabek. Other than that we have basicaly let Halladay go for nothing since we have not yet seen any proven MLB tallent. The Jays have enough “potential porespects” and not enough everyday MLB players.
The Jays are trying to remain competitive for longer than a couple years. What would happen after a couple of middling playoff runs when Halladay retired and we lost him for nothing? That’s terrible asset management.
by scrambles the death dealer on Dec 14, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Halladay made it absolutely clear he was leaving at the end of 2010
So the argument that he would make the team better today is fairly moot. I think the comparison has to be whether you think the 2 draft picks we would have received when Halladay left + 1 year of Halladay at 10M (2010) is better than Drabek, Gose, and d’Arnaud. In my opinion, the prospects we received seem a lot better than the picks and a few more wins in 2010 and still not making the playoffs.
You mentioned that the Jays have enough prospects, but at the time of this trade, we really didn’t. This was the trade that kick started the process of building up the farm from one of the worst in the league (bottom 5) to one of the best (top 5).
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Dec 14, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 16 recs
also, he wanted to go to the Phillies
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
i want to rec this till it begs me to stop
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 14, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Nailed it.
"I want to set the record straight: I thought the cop was a prostitute."
I also forgot about the 2 picks the jays received and you do make a valid point that the trade kick started the development of their farm team. However, at the time, the blue jays still had: J.P, Alvarez(excuse my spelling), snider, and Thames. The reason the jays have one of the best farm teams is because they spend 5 times as much as other teams towards scouting and developing the farm system. The Halladay trade is not the reason the jays have a great farm system. This trade should have included a proven young position player or pitcher to ensure we did receive something of MLB quality out of this trade.
I don't think you get the point that Playoffs!!!1! is making.
The Jays were in a very bad spot… aka beggars can’t be choosers.
The Jays HAD to unload Halladay and there was no bargaining for better players. The fact that AA got 3 very good prospects for him is amazing. Quality wise I think it was a much better return than what the Indians got for trading Cliff Lee to the Phils in 09.
As for the Jays farm system. The upper minors wasn’t the problem. The lower minors were.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 15, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
far to early to consider this a bad trade...
D’Arnaud is considered one of the top prospects in all of baseball (starting catcher for team USA) and could put up Joe Mauer type numbers for us for years. Gose is so young (22) and raw its hard to say he is nothing. The Blue Jays have torn down his old mechanics and rebuilt his swing so he hits with power. it will be 1 or 2 years before we see the final product but he has amazing athleticism (blazing speed, tremendous throwing arm, great fielding) and there is nothing to say that in 4 years he couldn’t put up ellsbury-esq numbers. Sure both these guys could not pan out and in 2015 we could look back at this trade as bad and call D’Arnaud and Gose “nothing”. However this isn’t the NFL or the NHL and it takes professional baseball players much longer to develop. It is much too early to even begin to actually analyze this trade and determine if it was a bad trade because it involved such raw and young prospects.
by Sean Coleman on Dec 14, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
I understand the development process of an MLB player trust me on that. I really don’t think you can just flat out say D’Arnaud can put up Joe Mauer type numbers. Also you cannot say Gose can put up ellsubury numbers. I really hope they do because I am a huge baseball fan and jays fan. There are plenty of players that lit up the minors and show nothing in the majors. It is not that I don’t agree with developing a farm system, I just think we needed a proven younger player in this trade. Even if we received a Bryce Harper type of player in this trade, he has never proven anything at the highest level. AA speaks a lot about risk, and the rate of minor league players becoming MLB superstars is exceedingly low. Halladay was a superstar.
Trade is looking very good
Sure it’s difficult to give up Roy Halladay period, but essentially we gave up 1 year of Roy Halladay at roughly $10M (net of the $6M we sent them). Halladay put up 6.6 fWAR and 7.0 rWAR in 2010, so split the difference and call it 6.8 WAR at about $4.5/win, basically $30M in value. So the Phillies got $20M in surplus value (with hindsight knowledge, but that’s what we’re doing, we’re evaluating how the trade looks at this point, not at the point when it was made).
Jays got Drabek, D’Arnaud and Taylor (I consider the subsequent trades seperately, though you could argue the Taylor part was effectively part, but neither contributed much). So the question is, do Gose and D’Arnaud figure to provide more surplus value than the Jays gave up?
Another factor is to discount the surplus value properly – the Phillies got theirs in 2010, we still haven’t got any (Drabek has provided negative value remember). So, assuming further that Gose and TDA probably don’t contribute to 2013. I’m not going to bother trying to project surplus value at this point, but I think there’s a good likelihood of getting more than that, using a reasonable discount.
Considering the constraints AA had on him in making this trade, I think he made out pretty well.
I never really understood the $6M they sent with Roy
Why was that necessary?
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
It probably was
The cash incentive is usually a sweetener to pry a prospect. In this case, it probably would have been for D’Arnaud and Michael Taylor, instead of two lesser prospects.
@VagabondBansal
This does make sense
I bet if AA were in the biggs a few years earlier the whole thing would have been handeled much better though, they would have built a better team around roy, and maybe he would have wanted to stay. I hope these prospects workout, guess we will have to come back to this in 2013
The situation
Really changes things – if you assume that he would have left at year end (2010) then we did the right thing in trading him. We’ll never know the other offers that were on the table so I assume that this was probably the best one that Roy would accept. I only wish Alex could have got a couple players closer to the Bigs. I guess that was supposed to be Drabek but what can you do about that. Hopefully 2011 was a blip fo him and he can turn into a solid starter.
I actually find it hilarious and ironic
That D’arnaud was basically a throw-in as noted by a lot of the writers at the time. They were all into Drabek as a future #1 and Taylor as a great prospect or Wallace as pretty much the same thing as Taylor – great hitters and such. Many of the writers didn’t even give D’arnaud much of a reason to be in the package and considered him a lesser tier although there were some writers who said D’arnaud could become the dark horse best prospect in the trade. Fastforward two years and what would you know, D’arnaud is now a really amazing prospect with his breakout 2011 year and so many people are down on Drabek and we turned Taylor, who’s ok, into Wallace, who had a fast start but is now even worse off than in the beginning of the year into Gose who’s a legitimate BJ Upton player with potentially more upside. Funny how things end up
I will never like this trade… Roy was my favourite Blue Jay, and he was the greatest pitcher in baseball. But most of my dislike for it is sentimental. Considering the timeframe AA had to work with, he got everything he could out of this trade imo, and that’s all I can ask. I’m still holding out hope for Drabek, and I’m even more excited about Gose than d’Arnaud.
Here's my attempt at a witty sig. Didn't really go so well, methinks.
Wise men wonder, while strong men die.
I kind feel the same way
I’ve said before, I don’t really get attached to players, because they have their interests, and will come and go whereas the team is more permanent. But Halladay was…different, AND he signed two below market extensions to stay and try to win in Toronto. He was a consummate professional, and it really sucked to see him go, though logically the right thing was done.
i feel exactly the same
while i know the trade was great for the team’s future, and definitely increased our chances of winning a championship in the near-ish future, part of me just wishes we got to watch one more year of halladay pitching, even if he left for just a couple draft picks at the end.
Is it me or does seem like this trade happend 10 years ago?
maybe my mind grapes are going bad.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 4:00 PM EST reply actions
I think it’s probably just that there’s been so much turnover since then – the kind of turnover most teams might usually see over 5-10 years
That explains it but...
looking at my typo filled title I’m still worried about my mind grapes.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
In another 2 years we'll know
I’d say 2 out of the 3 need to end being quite good, in order for it to be a win for the Jays.
Jesse Chavez
cleared waivers. Sorry if someone mentioned that previously. Should give us room to add someone.
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions
This is correct
Chavez was already removed on Monday through a DFA, this is just the disposition of what started then
We had a full 40 man, so last Wednesday when Johnson accepted arb, we had to DFA Jeroloman to clear a spot (outrighted on Monday)
We acquired Francisco and Hoey on Monday, and Chavez was DFA’d (outrighted today – the waiver process takes 24 hours). Carpenter was also outrighted Monday, which presmably means he was DFA’d late last week and the just didn’t announce it. So 3 addtions and subtractions.
From
an outsiders perspective, I think the Blue Jays did as well as you can trading someone that good. Hard to get back equal or better value.
Looked dicey for a bit, but Gose and D’Arnaud look good, and I still think Drabek will be a starter for several years, although maybe not in Toronto.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 14, 2011 5:27 PM EST reply actions
Bidding on Darvish ended.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/deadline-for-darvish-bids-4pm-central-today.html
Boston did not bid on Yu.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 5:43 PM EST reply actions
But you know the Yankees did
If anyone goes over $50M it’ll be them
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
I say we just needed to bid higher as the Rangers, Yankees and Nationals....
I don´t see any other teams involved…
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 14, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Buster Olney talked to three execs (not the best source)
Two teams that kept coming up: Rangers, Jays
One said watch out for Giants, Ms
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like Yu crashed Twitter
crazy pants!
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
@gcm1979 claims to have a source
says Jays won the bid and will post on JaysProspects
shortly
1 hour ago…
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
yeah......
didnt exactly scoop the community on that one
It is funny how this trade cleared my mind when talking about overrating prospects and underestimate big league players.
We needed to trade Doc to the Phillies and we did get a fair package… but if we break this down. We traded a great pitcher against the Phillies top pitching prospect, the best catching prospect and the third best outfield prospect… That seems to be good value… but Drabek looks like a problem today… d´Arnaud hasn´t played above AA and Gose is over a year away from the bigs… (don´t get me wrong… i really like d´Arnaud and think Gose could be a decent everyday CF)… so we could end up (worst case) with nothing even though we did get really got prospects…
Thinking about that i like the Santos – Molina trade even more… And even an Niese for d´Arnaud trade would now look fine to me…
Back to topic… i still think it was a fair trade with the Phillies and we have to wait for another 2 years to be able to say who the winner is.
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 14, 2011 5:58 PM EST reply actions
I went to the site and nothing.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'll be impressed if they are correct
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the link!
at first I thought it was a joke because there was nothing at JaysProspects.com . Votto trade link to come :)
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
How long is shortly?
Huge news for the #Bluejays if my source is correct that the #Bluejays have in fact won Yu Darvish bid. Blog up shortly on jaysprospects.com
55 minutes ago
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
This is a huge troll
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
but it is on Twitter
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to cast doubt on a nameless random with these credentials
-Blue Jays lover
-Professional heckler
-Season ticket holder
-Part-time a**shole
-Guest blogger
I mean #3 is impressive…
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
It could just be resume padding.
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Me too too.
The Jays Shopping List as it stands…
2B
Top Tier Starter
“Closer”
Bench
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be impressed with the Jays too
but more so with JaysProspects.com
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Mathis?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't say it had to be good, right?
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I get it
His bat is so bad it makes a huge impact in a negative way.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
mostly sarcasm
or true if you put “low” in front of impact.
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
We need more left-fielders too
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Still nothing
been hours
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
The waiting is the hardest part...
Who made Yu, who made Yu?
Who made Yu, ain’t nobody told Yu?
Who made Yu, who made Yu?
If you paid them and they signed Yu
Who picked up the bill, Yu? And who made Yu?
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:01 PM EST reply actions
According to Heyman... Yu are the one that I want is not the Yanks.
Modest bid. Winning Bid is “sky high.”
Looked at Pinstripealley… Unsubstantiated rumors flying around the Jays bid $60 mil
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:06 PM EST reply actions
"Some poster" on mlbtr sez:
It’s between the Rangers and Jays. Winning bid is 17 mil higher than the 2nd place team.
Just “reporting.”
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
His Post is finally up
I’m not linking it
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's pretty much worthless
No actual source named, no numbers, and no guarantee the Jays actually won. Silly.
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
by Pikachu on Dec 14, 2011 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If the winning bid is "sky high"
I don’t think it’s the Jays.
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
You're probably right. Unless the Rangers bid $43 mil
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Which is better?
Fielder at $150-200M +1st round draft pick
or
Darvish at $100-120M?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone want to take a stab at this?
http://ameblo.jp/darvish-yu-blog/entry-11101105300.html
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
not much
Dear fans,-report
Theme:Blog
Once again, Darvish decided to use the posting system.
Since most wanted to tell our fans was announced here.
I really appreciate the Hokkaido Japan ham fighters baseball team.
Just so and took the posting procedures yet, but further at the current stage to speak.
I think and decided from all wanted to Government to interview.
Yu Darvish
google translate? haha
I stuck it in a couple of translating site thingies and the last line is most likely that there will be a press conference to tell the fans about it.
But yours could be right!
Yes
But it also from the 8th so before the actuall posting
He seems like kind of a douche.
I was listening to a BP podcast and they interviewed one of his teammates who said he wears sunglasses inside.
He's a rockstar fo sho
Look at the pictures of vapid, fashion model, child-bride.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
She looks it. They're getting divorced
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
jeepers.
Divorced already?! When did they get married?
He really is a rockstar.
He is
If he comes here he will make-over the entire town.
He’ll send a team of futuristic interior designers to every single house and business in TO and make them all Japanese coool.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
He's like an Persian/Asian David Bowie
only taller and he can pitch.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I’m 95% sure they’re getting divorced because she’s a robot and didn’t tell him.
"Captain Picard Day is for the children." : Captain Picard
"Wu-Tang is for the children." : ODB
why would that be a problem?
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Her power supply is incompatible with North American outlets.
"Captain Picard Day is for the children." : Captain Picard
"Wu-Tang is for the children." : ODB
She's actually Kreiger's (Archer) Virtual GF
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Has he not heard of The Source. Also they should have stuck with Radioshack.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
Frequency converters aren't cheap.
Radio Shack was way better. What does “The Source” even mean? I’d expect them to sell fresh spring water or something.
"Captain Picard Day is for the children." : Captain Picard
"Wu-Tang is for the children." : ODB
I personally don't like either
But I think it would have to be Darvish, because pitching is more of a weakness for us than offence. Plus, no draft picks are given away. And I feel there is more of a return on investment with Yu regarding advertising and broadcasting rights.
Based on the Jay's current need.
Darvish. I think the Jays need pitching and he’s a good gamble. He’s of the body type that AA’s scouting team favors (tall, strong, etc), he’s a power pitcher who has experience facing AAA+ batters and all he costs is money.
If the Jays land him then they can trade a few prospects for an positive impact bat.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Top end Pitching is harder to get.
It always was, but now it’s even more scarce.
The Jays already have a 1B/DH although not Fielder level production.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
the Jays have a bad 1B/DH
(Lind) and an ok 1B/DH (EE). They could very much use a better one (including but not limited to Fielder).
By the same token, the Jays already have a 3rd starter (Alvarez or Cecil, depending on your rankings). It’s just that Darvish might be better than them.
More AAV for Yu than Prince but at a shorter term.
See reply below
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
the Jays need good players
it doesn’t matter if you improve your team by adding good pitchers or good hitters, even if your offense is already in the top echelon and pitching is not. Baseball is about run differential, not about balance in having a good batting and hitting team. An elite hitting team can win with subpar pitching (Red Sox this year) and an elite pitching team can win with subpar hitting.
The game is not about the ordinal ranks of offense and defense. It’s about maximizing run differential. Yu Darvish may very well be a good way for the Jays to improve their run differential over last year, but just because the Jays’ current pitching staff is “bad” and the offense is “good” does not mean that they would not benefit from adding offense and need to only focus on adding pitching.
If Darvish improves the team’s run differential more than other players the team could acquire (assuming a non-prohibitive cost to obtain him), then by all means get him. But the reason is not because the Jays “need pitching,” it’s because he’s the player the Jays can get who will improve their run differential the most without costing a prohibitive amount.
Sorry if this has been said before, but it’s worth saying a lot.
by SuckaMD on Dec 14, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
good batting and hitting team
should read “good batting and pitching team” obviously
You make a lot of sense
My rational is based on this.
1) Boras is insistent on a 10 year contract. AA is not going to go 10 years
2) Yu is a higher cost AAV (if you include the posting fee). AA can probably go 6 max and the Rogers Beancounters can live with that.
AA can probably live with a higher AAV with a shorter term.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
as I said, Darvish may very well be the best investment available for the Jays right now. But the reason to advocate targeting him rather than Fielder is because one thinks that he improves the Jays run differential more than Fielder, not simply because the offense is “already good” and the pitching is “bad.”
In a perfect world, I'd be estatic if the Jays signed Fielder AND Darvish
Not going to happen though.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that will happen either
The Angels give reason for hope at least.
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Jays have obviously posted the highest bid
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
rumor is, at least 1 darvish bid was “sky” high. may have been "north’’ of $50M. again, unconfirmed.
“sky” = blue = blue jays
“north” = canada = toronto = blue jays!
by Nadia on Dec 14, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It would be fitting
to win the Darvish posting on the same day we traded Halladay. Good omen?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 8:23 PM EST reply actions
I am closing twitter for the night, cause loading tons of tweets that aren’t about Darvish is making me frustrated
Everyone and their Uncle is using Yu to troll
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
and I’m already mad cause I got cheated out of McDonald’s for dinner
by leaflover4ever on Dec 14, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno. I'd be mad if I got McD's for dinner.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 14, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Big Macs and Hash browns are sick. 1.65 cheese burgers taste great when intoxicated. After the I avoid it. Wnedy is amazing, and I have found a respect for the Wopper, especially Wednesdays.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
Jays Prospects
finally has their Yu Darvish winning bid article
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 9:42 PM EST reply actions
Not worth posting the link
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
why not?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
He's got nothing
no proof. He’s looking to up his numbers is all.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
We should troll this hard
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
like so
Pikachu_mlb Eric
BREAKING: @gcm1979 has sources that say Jays win Darvish bid. SPREAD THE WORD
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
I just saw your tweet and was like: WHAT?
Now I’m like: OIC Pikachu=Evil Genius
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
What I don't understand
Is why Jaysprospects.com ran this. I mean sure, if it’s actually Darvish, it’s a scoop. But from I understand, that website is trying to build itself into the go to place for interviews with players and what not – that relies on having credibility, and that whole article seems really, really sketchy. Which could be a way to lose credibility.
Is that one of their main writers?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
That is only the
author’s 2nd article for Jay’s Prospects. Maybe it wasn’t reviewed first?
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I thought I saw on Twitter
That he reference to the article being in review whena sked why there was such a delay.
If I ran a website, I wouldn’t let someone who had written only one article be able to publish without a review process. It’s just really sketchy.
Ugh
If I ran a website, I might get an editor for the garbage I type :p. I meant to say, I thought he referenced the article being in review when asked
It is also strange
to pull it off of the front page but leave the link functioning.
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
The link still works
but it is off of the front page.
AA - Sign Darvish, Cespedes, AND Jorge Soler
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 14, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
He just got attacked on Twitter too.
tennismaster33
@gcm1979 than that’s great for you an if your wrong than who cares it wasn’t 100%. It’s a foolproof plan! You should die
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 14, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
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