Question Time? Is There Any Free Agent You Would Like the Jays to Sign?
by Tom Dakers on Dec 2, 2011 5:05 PM EST
in Fun
Email
PrintI'm trying to get a couple of non-blogging things done, so just going to put up a quick question: Is there any free agent you would like the Jays to sign?
I am kind of interested to see if the Jays will go after Yu Darvish. And I'd like them to sign Kelly Johnson, though I wouldn't mind them picking up the draft pick. I'd like a left-handed reliever too. Not sure who. Maybe Tsuyoshi Wada? I wouldn't complain about David Ortiz, if they could get him without spending too much.
Prince Fielder? The last I saw was that the Brewers were offering him $20 million a year for 6 years. I wouldn't want the Jays out biding that. And I don't like the idea of signing a player to 'send a message'. That seems stupid to me.
Carlos Pena? I'm not all that excited about him either.
Ryan Madson? I like him better than Heath Bell and, with the Marlins out, I wonder how many teams are after him. Maybe we could get him a little cheaper than Bell? But then I'd rather see a trade for Bailey.
Anyway, MLB Trade Rumors has a free agent tracker here, make your case for who you would like to see the Jays go after and how much you think it would cost.
156 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Conversions
I always felt teams might be able to squeeze more out of pitchers by shifting inneffective starters to the bullpen and “curating” (to put it gently) their pitch selection and focus.
I’m thinking of John Smoltz as the ideal, although he was not an ineffective starter, and is probably an anomaly in terms of a successful conversion.
I just think guys may have more left in the tank even if they don’t have the “glory” to be an SP, and wonder why we see so much pigeonholing in terms of SP/RP and less experimentation in this regard…?
Or I’m off my John Rocker…
they all start out as a starter in the start
I think every pitcher is drafted as a starter, and converts when they are not able to make the small adjustments in game to be successful. If you only have two pitches and one isn’t working its going to be a short outing. But if you throw 98 and the slider isn’t working you maybe able to get through an inning, but you won’t get through a game with just one pitch.
not always, but usually
Drew Storen is a recent exception. The Nats had another one a few years earlier that they dealt to the Reds for a promising young OF. Christ my memory.
converted starter options available
We could take a look at Chris Young, Brandon Webb or Jeff Francis.
Protection
What kind of year could Bautista have if Fielder is hitting behind him. I like the potential. I’m grinning ear to ear just thinking about it. I think Johnson was effective at 2nd he wasn’t flashy but quietly got the job done. And Darvish, huge cash put i think his ceiling will be huge.
he'd have about the same year as he would otherwise
but would probably score more runs with a better hitter behind him. Protection has been shown to provide minimal, if any, measurable improvement to a player’s production.
Adrian Gonzalez
got fewer fastballs than he has ever gotten in his career (by a lot) moving to a potent Sox lineup
Hear would be two guys I would like the Jays to try
Joel Zumaya-once an elite arm, could try him, might catch lightning in a bottle. With the unpredictability of closers he might turn into something, One year with a team option for a second if he does well.
My other idea is Jerry Hairston Jr, for 2b. He was 270/344/..383 last year which considering what we could get for him would buy us more time to pursue someone at the trade deadline next year, like Brandon Phillips.
Bill James projects for this year .254/.323/.369
Hairston's Salary for 2011 was 2,000,000
I think he could be a 1.8 war player. How much is a win in WAR worth?
by icedbecker2007 on Dec 2, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
5 million I think
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
I will give my top two signing dreams + 1 trade (dream scenarios)
Here you go, esteemed gentlemen, and Happy Weekend to all of you (its glorious isn’t it?);
Yu Darvish at $45 million posting fee and 45 million for 4 years with an option for a 5th at $10.5 million (possible $55.5 million on the table over 5 years.) This could actually be a legit possibility…
Dave Ortiz on 1 year at $8.5 million with an team option for a second,$ 9 million option. The Jays could afford to increase these amounts upwards 2-3 million to really make it happen if they wanted. And by Jays I mean Rogers. Which means its unlikely to happen.
and the trade you wonder?
I send Drabek, Cecil and one of either Thames and Sndyer plus McCoy to Washington for Espinoza (second baseman). This would give Jays control over an elite 2b prospect (much like we have at 3rd currently) for the next 5 years.
This scenario would mean the Jays would need to promote a closer from within and i think we have beat that whole deadhorse quite a few times – there are in fact options to make this happen.
I think that you will find the terms and dollars i mentioned above to be fair offers.
The good news is...
AA would only have to make one phone call for your dream trade to happen.
The bad news is…
It’s not a good trade for the Jays.
.313/.400/.565
I was with you until the trade
Drabek, Cecil and one of Thames/Snider? Unless we’re getting Ruth in his prime, we’re giving wayy too much. Cecil is at best, end of the rotation starter. Thames, at best, an average starting OF. I don’t mind dealing those 2. But, Drabek and Snider are still elite prospects who have the potential to be very good in the league. They just need to find their way.
I’m rooting for Snider, not ready to give up on him yet.
I agree that the proposed trade isn't a good one
but if you think Drabek, Snider, Cecil, and Thames would net Ruth in his prime, then I have a bridge in New York to sell you
Haha. Not if the GM of the Yanks back in the day was Reagins’ grandfather.
by outoforder87 on Dec 2, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
That's better value
that the 1919 Red Sox received.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 2, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps
But they could sign a higher rated player and it wouldn’t matter right?
I read that Boston are going after closers. Madson is higher ranked than Ortiz right? What if they sign him than it is moot right?
I’m not sure so i am actually asking if anyone knows what happens…
no it isn't
If the sign someone better doesn’t matter, they still get our pick. If we sign someone better say fielder and ortiz than they get our 2nd because Milwaukee gets our first.
2B and SP
Kelly Johnson for 2nd
A 5th starter that could log 200IP with a 4.5-4.75ERA…
might be a guy like Joel Pineiro , Paul Maholm or Jason Marquis… probably in that order.
I’d like to see them fill the bullpen holes with some of the young arms in the system.
Sign Fielder…
We would protect Bautista…. we could package Lind, Jimenez and a pitching prospect for a starter… 6 years from now he´s still not too old… look at the free agent class of 2013… no young big bat…
Bautista is in his prime… try to start this year going for the wild card…
"Touch ´em all, Joe!"
by jaysfanfromeurope on Dec 2, 2011 5:46 PM EST reply actions
The Fat Prince
IS – 27 in 2012. I expect his Portliness to still be able to walk to the batters box and swing until just before he turns 32. That is 5 years – he’ll be just entering his age 32 year. IF – we (or some other idiots) signed him for 8 years we’d (they’d) have until and including his age 34 season. THIRTY FOUR – ya that is old – real freakin’ old – almost as old as Puljos is NOW.
‘Nough of this sh*t – AA just sign the bugger and be done with it. He will not be blocking any A prospects and for MOST of that contract he’ll be an OK to excellent pickup.
As to Kelly – have patience my little ones – Heck’s defense will force Escobar to 2nd SOON. As to watching Kelly hit 22 with 16 homers – YAWN.
5 yrs, with a player and club option for two. Even after this contract he could get paid if he’s healthy, look at Ortiz….
I would like to see Fielder at 5 years for $110 Million, with 2 club options at $25 million/year. I think that would get him and I think he would be worth that for what he would bring to the Jays.
by Andrew Krewenki on Dec 2, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Fielder and Darvish
Fielder – Would fit perfectly into the plan to complete for the wild card this year and more in the years to come with his age reaching the prime years. Would have to move Lind, but thats fine.
Darvish – Because I think from what Ive read that hes worth the investment. He is not over pitched and has not had a traditional asian workload for his age as I read. Plus, he was impressive in the WSC.
Pujols
All the normal caveats apply, but I think he has the better chance to age well than Fielder, and you’d be acquiring an inner-circle HOF guy, and he plays better defence. He could DH for the last few years of his contract. It would cost over $200 m, but it’s one of the few moves I’d be enthusiastic about.
by gabrielsyme on Dec 2, 2011 5:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Im sorry but looking at the big 100 million plus contracts there are too many albatross to have a ton of confidence in.
by icedbecker2007 on Dec 2, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Harden, Johnson, Darvish
I really want the Jays to sign Rich Harden. I said this in another thread, but I think its ideal for both sides. The Jays get him cheap and try him out as a starter. If he does great then we got a bargain. If he doesn’t, I think he’d be willing to slot into a bullpen role and that’s where we could really find something special.
Darvish is huge for a Japanese pitcher and apparently he throws seven pitches. Of course that’s just talk, but it still excites you as a fan. I don’t even think he’s thrown 1,000 innings yet in Japan, it seems like his arm has been protected.
None of the high profile guys
No darvish, fielder, pujols, wilson, madson, etc. Use the big scouting dep. to find a cheap and tradable asset
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 2, 2011 6:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I really like the idea of Fielder for more $ and less years
It all depends if the Prince will be willing to do it. 4 years $110 million could do it which would be 27.5 million per year. Might have to push it to 30 million which would be 120 million.
by Chris McC on Dec 2, 2011 6:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Was thinking that too.
$30 mill/yr for fielder? I don’t know if he’s worth it. Although, I guess if he’s willing to take a shorter term, then he needs to be benefited for the risk he’s taking by increasing the $/yr.
Also
You guys are aware that Broxton has already signed, right?
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 2, 2011 6:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Darvish
As much as the Morosi article got me drinking the Fielder kool-aid, I don’t envision a scenario where the Jays can get Darvish & Fielder. I wish we could, I’d be ecstatic – even though it’d be a lot of money to dish out. 7 year $130mill for Fielder sounds reasonable. And an additional $100 mill on Darvish (Posting fee + contract). Rogers may be willing to increase payroll, but I doubt it’d be to that magnitude.
So, instead I think that’d leave the Jays to choose bw Darvish or Fielder. And I have to pick Darvish. Maybe his WBC appearances made me delusional, but I think this guy is going to be a stud. He’s young, got a lot of pitches, he’d complement the pitching staff well.
As for other positions, I wouldn’t mind trading for Bailey, getting Ortiz (for a one year deal, maybe club option on the 2nd year). If Johnson doesnt resign, maybe go out and explore a trade for Phillips?
I dunno. There's not too many of them that make that much sense for the Jays.
There are plenty of relievers that will probably be bargains if he waits it out long enough (Wright, Zumaya, Wood, etc etc).
I think AA won’t make a splash this offseason, but will still make a few trades shortly after the Winter meeting.
Erik Bedard
if you could get him for one year under $10 million with a team option (maybe $8 first year, $12 team option?). had a solid year last year with 2.5 WAR in 130 innings. at the very least should be a mid-rotation starter while healthy, with potential to be even better.
romero-morrow-bedard-alvarez-cecil with mcgowan, drabek and the AA quartet waiting in the wings would be a really good pitching mix i think.
a vet
a veteran would look good in our starting rotation. Romero is the ace, but I wouldn’t call him a seasoned vet just yet.
Assuming Darvish is posted. Darvish.
But I think the posting fee is going to way above the Dice-K fee. Some folks seem to think that $45 or 50 million is enough. No way. I’m guessing 65+. It’s going to be an e-bay auction gone mad because various teams have been all too quiet (Yanks.) All the big boys want him. Who doesn’t want a guy who throws 95+ with mad control?
I think I’d rather the Jays focus on resigning KJ to 2-3 year contract using the money they saved on Hill and J-Mac. I can live with Valbuna and McCoy fighting it out over the utility IF position. Also because there is no real in-house option at 2B.
Offense isn’t really the Jays problem bur rather the pitching is. Since the FA pitcher market is pretty CJ, Buerhle and maybe Jackson AND demand is high because everyone needs it I’m thinking the Jays (outside of Darvish) sit tight on FA pitchers and look at their internal options.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 7:41 PM EST reply actions
Fielder,
He is the only guy I would want to give up our #17 pick for, and only if it’s a shorter term/ more $ type contract (5/$125m). I think adding fielder would signal that the jays feel ready to make a push for the playoffs and in reality we need another impact starter also for that to happen in 2012. So I think that darvish would be another great piece to add but I have to trust AA and his scouts who know his stuff much better any of us do. If they think he can hold up and skill will translate to MLB I’m sure they will be players when/if he is posted.
As long as there aren’t any long term deals for a reliever I will be happy developing what we have and building through trades.
Something to consider about Fielder
How would it impact the clubhouse, public perception and Bautista himself knowing that he is clearly the best player and leader on the team yet making (potentially) 5-10 million less than Fielder? Jose is as classy as they come and he wouldn’t whine, I have no doubt that he’s a professional. But its still something to consider
Bautista knowingly took the safe bet of signing early
It was a fair signing. AA gambled and won. I don’t think it should affect him at all. As long as it makes the team better, he should be happy. If anything, it shows that the team is willing to invest in the team while he’s there.
Case study: Evan Longoria, Ryan Braun
Signing long term deals at below market value doesn’t seem to have bothered Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun, both guys that signed below market deals when they broke out. This will be a non-issue for Jose in my opinion
Bautista and FIelder
That is exactly why I think the Jays will not sign Fielder.
by Canguy on Dec 2, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really wouldn’t mind trying to turn Harden into a closer. I also really WANT Darvish.
by hrv2010 on Dec 2, 2011 8:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
One of
Darvish, Cespedes, or Jorge Soler would be good enough for me. A Votto trade would be great too. Just one exciting move somewhere please.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 2, 2011 8:31 PM EST reply actions
Great posts by everyone
I re-considered my proposition of what i thought it would take to land Espinosa from Washington and, realistically to get them to give him up, you would have to give up some serious prospects/MLB talent. But still i probably should have said Cecil and one of Thames/Snider and been done with it… my reasoning was that Espinosa is the #1 ranked 2b prospect in MLB, a talent much like Lawrie at 3rd for the Jays, a type of player that is highly coveted. I don’t mind if Lind plays first base in an infield that has Lawie, Escobar and Espinosa. YIkes, that would be freakin’ awesome.
Another one to chew on – I still wouldn’t be upset if the Jays signed this Cespedes fellow to a three year deal worth 25 million or so if they could do it. I think his agent is super-highballing with this 5-6 years at 50-60 million stuff… but i am highly intrigued by this young Cuban. He seems impressive. I wonder what the GM’s who have seen him workout think about it all?
I really like the Espinosa idea, but I think they’d rather give up Ian Desmond plus your really buying high on Espinosa’s power from last season.
Honestly why not Adrian Cardenas from Oakland ? Oakland has five secondbaseman on their 40 man and Jemille Weeks has the job for the next four years. The guy was a first round(comp) pick, has a great pedigree and shouldn’t embarass himself defensively and is considered more of an offensive player then anything, and he bats left.
If we trade for Cardenas and let Johnson sign elseware I think that would do more for the Jays then most FA signings would. Cardenas is ready, he hit .299 with power last year so good candidate for a change of scenery.
I dont know
the easy answer is Fielder. For the Jays to compete in the AL East they’re going to need another impact position player similar to Bautista to do it. Throwing piles of money at Fielder is probably the easiest and quickest way to do it. Yeah his body type is terrible but the guy has been able to play a pile in the last 3 years so he might be able to make it work for him. But if Milwaukee has offered 5 year/100 mil, and the rumor is they could go to 6/120, AA would probably be staring down 6/130 or 7/140 to get him at least and that is a lot, probably too much.
Also depend on how the free agent market shakes out, right now Jose Reyes market isn’t taking off as much as I’d thought. If the rumors are true that the Mets are at 5yrs/ 80 mil and the marlins are somewhere in that 5-6 yr 75-90 range, the Jays might be anbe to get in there with a bit more money to get him to 2b (I’m on the fence about Hech), something to kick the tires on anyways.
sure there is
when CJ Wilson signs elsewhere he’ll be the top remaining option, driving up the price he can demand
I heard he's also going through
a divorce, not sure japanese laws but if the are similar to north american it makes sense to wait for that to go through before posting (or he could be posted but have no interest in signing). I’ve read thats why some don’t think he’ll go this year, is it true? i don’t know
Darvish may wait a year
I’ve heard that too (http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/yu_darvishs_debut_on_hold/8297086?linksrc=mb_main_col_5).
His ex-wife’s lawyers are delaying the divorce hearings in hopes that he will sign a lucrative contract in the MLB which would then be included in his assets.
I was referring to his posting, not signing.
Unless he gets a portion of the posting fee, I don’t see the advantage to waiting.
by Defense Counts! on Dec 4, 2011 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
The Right-Fielder Option
I’ve already thrown out Pujols, but I’m also intrigued by the sign-a-right-fielder-move-Bautista-to-third-and-Lawrie-to-second plan. I think the only guys out there for whom this might make sense are Carlos Beltran and Yoenis Cespedes. With Cespedes I have no idea about whether the hype is congruent with his ability to be an impact player, and I’m not sure Beltran is still a good enough hitter to justify shifting Lawrie and Bautista.
As with everything, the Right Field option is perhaps more likely to occur due to a trade. If we could somehow pry Jason Heyward away from Atlanta, I’d be happy to see Lawrie ranging around 2nd base.
I'm intrigued by it too
I mean if they did it, they wouldn’t need to find a 2B and its not like they’d have to find another outfielder either. They could run a Thames/Rasmus/Snider outfield for the first part and upgrade through trade during the year or just roll with that outfield. The trade route is AA’s prefered method.
I just always thought there was zero possibility of moving Lawrie back to second.
Acquiring a RF and moving Bautista and Lawrie
I think that’s a bad idea, Bautista has repeatedly stated he prefers RF, I think you need to leave him out there and let him settle into a position full-time for the first time in his career (would probably improve his defense too if he had a full spring training to prepare).
I also wouldn’t want to jerk Lawrie around either considering the strides he made at 3B last year. Lawrie is relatively new to 2B too having been drafted as a catcher. Shifting him back to 2B and having to learn the intricacies the position while playing in the majors would be difficult and possibly dangerous (relative to learning in the minors like he did at 3B).
without looking at previous comments:
a backup catcher-
1. Sniyder
2 Castro
3. Shoppach
a 2B-
not really any free agents i WANT – if you force me to pick one it’d be Jerry Hairston, Jr.
a Closer-
If i don’t care at all how much of other people’s money I spend, I’d be cool with Rodriguez or Madson
If i do care, I’d be ok with a flyer on Ardsma if he can be ready to go on opening day. I’d be fine with Francisco back except for the cost of the pick.
I’d gamble on Mike Gonzalez before i’d do any other free agent – and i’d be making a trade long before i settled for Gonzalez (as a closer – I wouldn’t mind signing him to set-up)
Starting pitcher?
if you must sign one (assuming for the sake of argument you lose the bid on Darvish or he doesn’t post) then there’s only three i’d even look at:
1. Bedard
2. Harden
3. Oswalt (likely too expensive)
(I’d accept it ok if he signed Jackson but i don’t covet him)
Ivan Rodriguez
or even Posada are option for 30-40 games. Posada wouldn’t be as good a catcher but would have some value as a pinch-hitter.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 2, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
As the question was:
Is There Any Free Agent You Would Like the Jays to Sign?
My straight answer is: “Pujols, Please!”
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
But as that is not likely (AA, please, do make it happen...)
Hiroki Kuroda – Like him
Ryan Ludwick – can do worse than him in LF
David Ortiz – Makes no sense, but I still like him
Dontrelle Willis – ???
Joel Zumaya- might be worth a shot
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
thoughts
madson= $7 mill per year for 4 years with a club/vesting option for a 5th
Yu = gets posted for $35 mill and signs $9 per year for 5 years with 2 club obtains at $12-13
KJ = $7 per year for 2 years with an option
votto at the deadline
My thoughts
Madson – Not gonna happen at that price the numbers being thrown around before the Phillies signed papelbon were 4 years $44
Yu – Doubt the posting fee would be that low as well as his salary but its possible
KJ – Reasonable but he could probably get better on the open market, and it seems like AA will look to trade for a 2b b4 buying one
Votto – I’d rather sign him in 2014, well depending on the price of course, but it isnt likely to be low
I don't always like to tweet, but when I do it's @HouseOfTheBB
And when more than 140 characters are needed, I write at HouseOfTheBluebird.com
I feel as though
We should wait till next year. I think the Madson idea though, just because there is so compensation. That being said, I liked Bell too.
On MLBtraderumors
Apparently, the Jays are seriously interested in Madson. Considering he won’t cost them a 1st rounder, not so bad. He is going to cost $$$ (Boras client) and probably wants 4 years (AA might want to do 2 guaranteed plus 2 optional) but that is survivable (sort of) because he’s 31
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 10:55 PM EST reply actions
I guess it depends on the way you look at it
If you compare them in the present tense, I’m sure Madson is better.
If you compare Madson now and Ryan on November 27, 2005, Ryan is much better.
Derp
Yeah,
Madson career GB% – 47.7%, BJ’s – 41.9%
Madson FB = 94 MPH, BJ’s = 91.6 MPH (in his best year)
BJ Ryan was never built to pitch in the AL Beast.
Two huge factors in who can deal in the AL East
In my opinion anyways.
If a guy throws under 90 and has a bad GB% he shouldn’t come to the AL
Marcum did alright.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
But his changeup was slower no?
Greater difference between pitch speeds?
Changeup not as necessary if you're a reliever
IIRC Fastball Slider is all BJ threw.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Trevor Hoffman
is the all time leader in saves and was a changeup artist. Good relievers need to be good pitchers, but it doesn’t matter what kind of pitches you throw
it helps to have a good FB and GB%
it’s not exactly necessary, as BJ Ryan showed us in his 3 (or 4 if you count 2003) years of dominance.
Derp
No compensation
You don’t lose the money Rogers does.
we don't lose the money
but we do lose the opportunity to see the Jays acquire different better players because Rogers is only prepared to spend a certain amount of money.
I don’t want to lose that opportunity to Ryan Madson for the price quoted above
To be fair BJ could pitch in the AL Beast, but his elbow couldn't.
His crossfire deliver which aided in deception blew out his arm
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Now that I think about it
Boras is going to demand 4 guaranteed.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
thats why 4 years plus an option would be perfect. It would take him to 35-36 years old which should help us bring down his annual salary. The alternative would be 3 years at $27 mill…sound familiar?
Madson is different case. I wouldn't mind 3/27 for Madson
He’ll be 31. Bell is 34. Madson gets GBs, Bell is a flyball pitcher. Madson’s peripherals and FB Velocity are holding whereas Bell’s dropped big time.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Plus Bell is a product of Petco
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
eh
I know not everyone likes to bring WAR to the table, but for Madson to be worth $27M he has to acquire 5.4 fWAR. His best 3 years add up to 4.3 fWAR. You’d still be losing approximately $5.5M even if he performed at the same level of his 3 best years.
Derp
There is probably a better metric for assessing relievers than WAR
But I don’t know what that is.
Problem is that Boras is the agent and he’s looking at Papeldouche’s contract + years going “Why not Ryan?”
I’d rather the Jays spend 3/27 than 4/44.
However, I have some hope. MLBtraderumors just posted up a Shi Davidi report. AA smirked at blogosphere (here?) reports of meeting Pujols’ agent. Also, Beeston and AA have denied any real interest in Pujols and Fielder. Would prefer a trade. So this could all be a mind F fueled by Boras.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
well
if you believer WAR works for starting pitchers (not sure if you do), then I don’t see why it won’t work for relievers.
Derp
Ifyou don't like WAR for relievers
And there are reasonable arguments for not doing so, use WPA or shutdowns/meltdowns
Darvish, Harden, Bedard, Johnson or Reyes
Darvish – If at a reasonable price
Harden – Possible starter, probable reliever
Bedard – Cheap, decent #3 or 4 starter
Johnson – Lack of better options available
Reyes – Would be nice, not likely at his price
Romero, Morrow, Darvish and/or Bedard in the rotation while McGowan, Alvarez, etc battle for the remaining spots. Cecil, Villanueva, Carreno etc in the bullpen but available for starts when/if either Harden or Bedard get injured. I actually don’t think McCoy would suck at 2nd but Johnson is better. Jose Reyes is the unlikely one but I’d like to see him bump Escobar to 2nd since I don’t really have as much faith in Hechavarria as others might.
rotation
Romero, Morrow, Alverez and McGowan are in the rotation. The four are guarantees. We only need one more starter to fill the slot for next year. Everyone else we sign will either be starting in AAA or be placed in the bullpen.
I’d like to see us pick up Yu. But I’m not going to be too upset if we don’t. We have a wealth of starting pitching in the minors that will graduate into the majors throughout the next few years. So the priority of signing a free agent pitcher is not all that high.
-Yu Darvish – KJ (praying he can get back to his 2010 level, or close to it) – Rich Harden or Erik Bedard
by BrodyBats on Dec 3, 2011 12:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Free agents are pretty putrid after Pujols, Fielder, Wilson, Reyes
Starting pitching:
A) Darvish: would be great if we could manage to get him without paying a Dice-K-esque posting fee
B) Stand pat. Available FAs are some combination of too expensive or too unproven. Take a shot at Bedard if he comes cheap but given the market, I don’t think we could get him for less that $8mil/year. Harden and Webb could fit in here too and they would probably come cheap.
Relief pitchers (not necessarily closer)
A) Madson: love his fastball/changeup combo. Great strikeout and groundball rates. Has improved over the past 3 years and looks to have consolidated his skills. Price tag may be prohibitive.
B) Assemble a handful of low-risk, high-reward guys to try in the closer role and compete with the youngsters we have now like Carreno. A lot of people want Harden in this spot but there’s a reason they didn’t do that in Oakland; Harden can’t pitch back-to-back days (A’s fans have been pushing for that for years). I also like Juan Cruz as an inexpensive veteran that could be adequate as a setup guy/closer candidate. Joel Zumaya may cost more than the other candidates but he has higher upside as long as the Jays make a corresponding change to our guitar hero policy.
2B
A) Re-sign KJ. He did a good job for us last year and his power should play well in Skydome.
B) Sign a veteran stand-in for a year until Hech hopefully learns to hit. Someone cheap that can field and won’t kill us batting 9th like Orlando Cabrera, Nick Punto or Aaron Miles. I like Ronny Cedeno too as a younger option who may one day just click. At worst, his glove will play.
Maybe I'm falling victim to the AA misdirection but
I don’t think Alex plans to sign ANY FAs this year.
All he’ll do is make trades.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 8:41 AM EST reply actions
It's not a misdirection if he knows the truth
Follow me @Minor_Leaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Dec 3, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reyes (for 2nd base), Harden
Reyes, if indeed he can be had for $15m/yr in his prime. What a leadoff option, followed by Escobar.
Harden. No 3/4 starter plus could slot into bullpen.
For 1st, trade for Trumbo or Morales in Anaheim (preferably Morales). They can’t play them both.
Trade for Oveido from the Marlins to close.
I don't think there is a chance Reyes signs anywhere to play 2B
Like less then 0.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
It would have to be more then a fair bit
I think he sees himself as the best SS in the world. He’s not going to go somewhere and admit he’s not the best and move.
That could be an added bonus of signing with Miami, moving Hanley over or out.
#egoboost
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
2nd Base
I say he takes a run at Gordon Beckham although I have no idea how he makes it happen, it’d probably have to be a straight up swap for another struggling prospect like Snider or Drabek.
OT: I just saw this awesome baseball doc(I missed it, maybe you did too)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4aoxIYgd64
If you haven’t seen this doc about Steve Bartman it’s really great and the entire doc is here.
I know it happened a while ago but it’s an awesome story.
We see fans interfere with balls in play all the time so there are a lot of Jay fans that need to watch this.
PS Steve Lyons is awesome.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 10:03 AM EST reply actions
Closer
While I hear BJ Ryan was a bad signing I disagree he was one of the best closers in baseball his first year with the club. Then John Gibbons broke him pitching him in 1plus inning saves all the time sometimes 2 innings, Ryan had injury problems after that. So it was a good signing and a misuse of the player considering the contract length. So I would like to see Madison as a Jay, better then a trade becasue a trade would take away assets for our team to make a deal for something we can’t get on the Free Agent market.
As for moving RF and 3B to 3B and 2nd
Bad move you will be worse defensively in RF and at 3B for doing this and you might piss off your best two position players. No Thanks.
I agree that the move would be bad for team chemistry but I don’t think this would represent a downgrade in defense all-around. Last year, Bautista had a UZR/150 of -10.6 according to fangraphs, mostly attributed to below average range (which corroborates with the eye test, though I didn’t think it was that bad). Last year, Bautista and Lawrie were fairly comparable at 3B in a fairly small sample though Bautista has traditionally been average to below average at 3B while we all know of Lawrie’s development at 3B. Replacing Bautista in right with someone like Travis Snider would represent a significant upgrade in RF, possibly even to slight downgrade at 3B (accounting for Lawrie’s progress) and probably a downgrade at 2B.
That said, I think tinkering with position changes for integral players would be a mistake and could affect the offensive portion of both Lawrie and Bautista.
you'll be worse defensively
but you’ll be much better offensively. it’s a tradeoff.
Not free agency
but Brad Mills traded for Jeff Mathis
Ha, ha, ha Blue Jays, payback for Napoli
You now have the worst catcher that ever picked up a baseball.
Napoli's 27th, 28th, 29th and 30th homers of the year (four more than Jeff Mathis' career total) rained down on Angel Stadium like knives from the ceiling.
Its not a major move
But Mathis should be a good enough backup. And a change of scenery might help him, Napoli improved when he left, so why not Mathis. Not saying he’ll put up those numbers but maybe improve from being the worse hitting catcher in baseball. I mean Scoiscia, really stressed defense on his catchers which may have limited their time in the cages working on their swings, who knows
"shoould be a good enough backup"
The fact we have to bring this question up just makes me
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting we could have brought
Molina back for the $s we will likely pay Mathis. I’m fine with this, but if JP goes down for any length of time it means TD will be up.
Can’t wait for next week! Although in reality especially with AAs interviews tin the last week, I would say don’t hold your breath.
Now as for a trade, I’m actually intrigued be Jean Segura. We seem to like trading with the Halos. Signing hope for me is Darvish.
by Keith72 on Dec 3, 2011 12:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Reyes
Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes Reyes
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
Is there any significance to the fact that you used the name Reyes 118 times? Why not 117? OR 119? Is this how much you think the Jays should offer?
Farrell: don’t get hurt now
Reyes: okeh meng.
Reyes: /lunges for a groundball
Reyes: /tears tendons
Farrell:
Farrell: Goddammit.
Derp
Did you really count?
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bluebird Banter
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Giancarlo Stanton busts Marlins Park scoreboard with tape-measure grand slam (VIDEO)
- Baltimore’s tradition of fans shouting ‘O!’ during national anthem sparks interleague feud
- Chris Perez follows rant against Cleveland fans with even better rant against Cleveland fans
- Pitcher Clayton Richard gets key pinch single in 13th after coming in 0 for 16
- Livan Hernandez welcomes ball boy to the bigs with shower of sunflower seeds (VIDEO)
