Blue Jays Trade Brad Mills to Angels for Jeff Mathis
by Tom Dakers on Dec 3, 2011 3:06 PM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays News
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PrintThe Jays filled their back up catcher spot by trading left handed pitcher Brad Mills to the Angels for light-hitting (there is an understatement) catcher Jeff Mathis. Mathis has a .194/.225/.259 career slash line in 426 major league games over 7 seasons. His career numbers are here.
He is a reasonable defensive catcher, but not someone we'll want to see out there very often. I hope J.P. can catch 145+ games this coming season.
Mills has had a couple of moments with the Jays, but didn't show much. I think he could be an ok starter if given time but we have enough pitching prospects that he would never get the time here. He did well in Triple-A Vegas, in 2011, 11-9 with a 4.00 ERA in 24 starts. Best he could have hoped for, in Toronto, was a long reliever or LOOGY role.
Not the big trade that we are hoping to see come out of the winter meetings but it does fill a hole. Though Brian Jeroloman could, likely, do as good of a job. Mathis had been a favorite of Mike Scioscia, for some unknown reason, and was a well though of prospect a few years back.
Update: Thinking about it for the 30 seconds that this deal is worth, the Jays could have waited on the Angels to non-tender Mathis but they would have had to remove someone from the 40-man roster to add him anyway. Mills might have been the guy to go. So instead of waiting and then potentially having to deal with other teams wanting to get Mathis after he was non-tendered, they trade the guy they would have released for him. I'd imagine some money will be coming along with Jeff.
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Not quite Wells for Napoli...
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
Pedro?
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like Darvish is going to be posted
divorce be damned!
This is the one big FA agent I want this year.
Am I in the wrong thread? Who the hell is Jeff Mathis??
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 3:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Wasn't that his older brother Jerry?
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by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well I'm totally confused then
Let’s just agree that Jeff Mathis shall be known as “The Beaver” from now on.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff "The Beaver" Mathis
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Darvish
I live about 90 minutes from Fukuoka and took in a game this season. Had a lot of fun. The game ended in a walk off for the Hawks in the bottom of the 10th after their closer blew the save. The game is played differently over here. While I’ve seen the highlights of Darvish on TV here, I’m just not sure that he’s going to slot where everyone things. I’m hesitant to spend the near to over $100M to acquire him. It’s one thing to pitch well in the Nippon League and completely different story to face MLB batters. I’d pass on him and continue building the way the Jays are.
yeah, Darvish is definitely high risk
but the potential reward is huge too. he’s younger than Dice-K was (IIRC), with better numbers and less if any arm abuse. his numbers are supposedly better suited to translate to MLB (more power stuff) and he also costs nothing but cash.
I wouldn't be at all surprised
if the Jays had a lot more useful information on Mathis’ D than does the general public. even with the recent ventures into framing and blocking, catcher defense stats are very rudimentary. it’s entirely possible that he’s far better at defense than we think. though his bat is still pretty putrid.
and maybe there’s a chance there’s value to having him teach JP. maybe.
After thinking it over from all angles
That last point of yours is the only thing that’s made any sense. I mean Mills was never going to be significant with the Jays because of the sheer volume of younger better guys ahead of him, so I don’t care about “losing” this trade. But AA isn’t running a charity, so he clearly thinks there’s value to be had somewhere in Mathis. Maybe the guy who recommended this move was in a coma since pre-2004 and thinks they’re getting the 22nd best prospect in the minors. That or he sees that Mathis will somehow make JP better.
by T_Mizz on Dec 3, 2011 4:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you don't think there's a chance
that Major League teams don’t have better statistics on catcher defense than does the general public? it’s maybe a bit of a reach, but I don’t think by much
ya, lots of teams have proprietary defensive metrics
I imagine the Jays have one too
I dont think that's a stretch
But the idea that his defense is good enough to overcome his terrible godawful bat and still make him worth 1.8M seems like a stretch
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 3, 2011 4:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jeff Mathis Defence
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
if I could find that gif
of Bautista missing the Verlander curve by about 2 feet, I’d post it
by benk on Dec 3, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Found it on an old BBB post...
FWIW, this is the post where I found it.
"Do not ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman
by Jeremiah Stanghini on Dec 3, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
even if he's just a replacement level catcher
that’s an upgrade over what we had before.
hopefully this means they think that d’arnaud will be ready midway through 2012.
AA is willing to spend $2 million
to give his beloved fans something to talk about before the winter meetings.
"Captain Picard Day is for the children." : Captain Picard
"Wu-Tang is for the children." : ODB
Back-Up Catcher
If they think JPA’s average will improve if he plays a little more, wouldn’t that be a tough sell to any back up catcher you are trying to sign? Maybe they only anticipate playing the back up catcher 20 or 25 games this year? I’m not super high on Mathis, but I’m not sure this is a big problem.
maybe he'll only start 20-25 games this year
and be used as a late-inning defensive replacement when the Jays are winning. That could save JPA enough wear and tear for him to start ~140 games, no?
God, I hope he only starts 20-25 games a year. His bat is almost unbelievably bad. Obviously, with this rotation, they’re worried a lot about defense behind the dish, or the Jays scouts think that Mathis can some how turn his bat around.
by dexfarkin on Dec 3, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They'll fix his swing like they did with Bautista!
Where’s Cito when you need him, we gotta fix Mathis’ timing mechanism
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Strange Deal
Really a strange deal, I have a few thoughts…
1) does free up room to move Jeroloman off the 40 man roster, perhaps in a trade to the Pirates? (for an arm to replace Mills)
2) Just how far off is Travis D’Arnaud? Could adding matthis possibly pave the way to a mid season trade of JPA?
d'Arnaud probably isn't too far
but he could use another season in the Minors to fine-tune his swing and defense. I bet he’d be fine in the Majors in 2012, but no reason to rush him and also it gives JPA a chance to build trade value (and here come the “ZOMG WHY TRADE JP”)
Oh for goodness sake...
It’s simple and it makes sense.
We just traded Molina and Mills for Mathis and Syndergaard (or whatever simile AA’s scouts can find) and we guaranteed that there is NO reason to delay d’Arnaud’s arrival one SECOND past when he is ready.
most compensation picks aren't actually any good
and I don’t see how a backup catcher delays d’Arnaud
but...
I don’t follow your logic about a 2 for 2 trade Yes Molina is a type B, but trading for Mathis very little influence over him signing with another club and thus netting us a sandwich pick. The two are quite seprate, I don’t think AA had any thought of keeping Molina.
Mylegacy is going to be...
one day writing a comment without touching the cap locks key.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this seems VERY unlikely, don’t you think? :p
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
VERY
Mylegacy is to SHOUT!
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by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 4, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
Bad Dream...
I just had the worst nightmare…I dreamed that the only offseason move the Blue Jays made was acquiring the worst hitting position player in MLB in the past decade. Then i had to watch the season as the bum turned the 9th spot in the lineup into a black hole every 5 or 6 games as he put up a putrid sub .180 OBP while supposedly adding “character” to the team. Thankfully it was just a terrible dream…oh Wait…
by Sean Coleman on Dec 3, 2011 5:41 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
raise my child for me
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
Brad Mills may be a better hitter
Check yoself before you rec yoself.
by Gerse on Dec 3, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
you win all the internets
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Man my dream of seeing Jeroloman play a game for the Jays
is never happening
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New Official Internet Points Bank Owner (Unlike Kirby the scam)
Is anyone else concerned that Jeroloman might become another "Moonlight" Graham?
I hope Jeroloman at least gets one career at bat and doesn’t become another “moonlight” Graham. He spent over 2 months on the bench last year without seeing any playing time at all. You gotta feel bad if the guy never ends up getting a major league at bat.
if professional ball players
Had a super human ability to keep all emotions intact and deal with every situation.
We would not have Escobar or Rasmus.
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
that wasn't even close to my point
I just don’t feel bad for the guy, he got paid thousands of dollars to work out, sit on a bench, and watch baseball
and to touch upon what you mentioned, you don’t think it’s possible that their emotional issues are the result of on-field struggles and not the other way around?
i just hate the argument
“they are professionals they can handle anything”
Cause they can’t, and don’t.
Not feeling sorry for them is a different point.
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
its cool i was kinda just throwing it out there
Kind of like this
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Have you seen the Halo's thread?
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 7:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
when we drop teahen it will get done
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 3, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Great. Now we have 2 Brad Millses in the AL West.
May be confusing when listening to Angels-Astros games on the radio next season….
Mathis dead last @ 120? Ouch!
I hope he gets better for 2012…
Jeff Mathis????????
noooooooooooooooo.com
by ddbumpus on Dec 3, 2011 7:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Did his agent make that card?
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really believe in clutch
or at least the notion that good/bad performance in the clutch is repeatable
Derp
HAhahahahahhahahhhaha!
Woo that was a good one.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 3, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
I somewhat agree
I think some batters are actually clutch but we don’t know who they are because the sample size on clutch plays isn’t big enough
by Chris McC on Dec 4, 2011 12:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
C'mon AA...give us something to really talk about...this is meh
by Marcos Montenegro on Dec 3, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions
LottOnBaseball John Lott
I once played in a league where the DH often replaced a position player in the batting order & the pitcher hit. This may be Mathis’s role.
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Derp
You aren't allowed to do that unfortunately.
Follow me @Minor_Leaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Dec 3, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
are you sure?
i thought the DH could actually replace any of the other players
Angels fans are ecstatic. 'Nuf said!
Over at Halos Heaven, it’s 200 comments and counting of pure celebratory delirium at dumping Jeff Mathis.
You don't actually think that LA won this trade in a landslide
Do you? Its a pretty insignificant trade. I was oretty much bad catcher for bad pitcher no?
by Chris McC on Dec 4, 2011 12:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A pitcher that wasn't part of the future that wasn't going to be in games (most likely)
for a catcher who is down right awful, and will be playing every 5 or 6 games
We lost the trade and then some.
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 4, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
I dont get it?
Shouldn’t it be good to get someone that we could use over someone who we probably wouldnt use?
by Chris McC on Dec 4, 2011 2:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jeff Mathis isnt usable
Even if his defense is actually better than what we think it is, it’s hard to see it outweigh his putrid hitting. Add in that he costs 1.8M.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 4, 2011 9:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
but if you think Mathis' true talent hitting
is, say, 60 wRC+ (John McDonald), AND you believe in the new defense propositions (and/or think the Jays have better ones), he could maybe be a .5 WAR/150 guy. meh.
yeah.... he does more harm then good
i thought that was covered
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 4, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
This article from Batter's Box is interesting
Over the five years, Angels pitchers posted a 3.67 ERA with Mathis catching, and a 4.25 ERA with the team’s other catchers
by JaysSaskatchewan on Dec 4, 2011 1:05 AM EST reply actions
No its really not
The angels manager calls every pitch. I watch the angels now and then, a lot more during the Vlad years. The catchers get the call from him.
Rent this for cheap!!
by Bowling_Guy25 on Dec 4, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
there's a lot more to the not-yet-quantifiable catcher defense/intangibles
than “game calling” (which I agree probably isn’t a skill)
but
we just lost one of the best defensive catchers (according to that advanced study by .. someone) in Jose Molina. And Molina was light years better with the bat.
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
"peak value"
doesn’t imply “good value.” 26 year old, one year with good stats in AAA, 86 MPH fastball righty, horrible MLB stats (even DIPS)? not exactly Bryce Harper
I think the update Tom added to this post explains this trade perfectly
and should put this whole discussion to bed, forever.
Someone -not me – should post that paragraph on the Halos’ thread. Doubt they make it green but who knows they’re out of their minds and out of control over there.
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 4, 2011 9:19 AM EST reply actions
The point is
TFSML and I need banhammer target practice
Follow me @Minor_Leaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Dec 4, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
OT: This whole Yu Darvish posting thing is going back and forth and sounds
like the makings of an international soap opera. Will he or won’t he? It’s getting annoying.
The more this goes on the more it sounds like a mess to avoid at all costs.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/yu-darvish-japanese-pitcher-up-for-grabs-for-mlb-teams-120311
thisrighthere!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Dec 4, 2011 9:42 AM EST reply actions
Any chance that Mathis goes down to Las Vegas to help out Travis D’Arnaud?
by c-square on Dec 4, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
that study suggests he's excellent at framing
but d’Arnaud is supposed to be very solid defensively anyway
He has 5 years ML service time. That means, I believe, if the Jays tried to send him down (assuming he cleared waivers), he’d have the right to opt for free agency.
Of course, that’s only if he’s on a major league contract. The Jays could non-tender him, and then he’s a free agent. They could try to sign him to a minor league deal (so could any other team, or to a major deal of course)
which would make the trade pointless
since Mathis was most likely being non-tendered anyways
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 4, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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