I Got the Thin Bench Blues
by Tom Dakers on Apr 25, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
in Toronto Blue Jays Analysis
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PrintThis off-season I talked about how we were paper thin at all the offensive positions so much that even I thought I sounded like a broken record. Now that we have Hill, Nix, Davis, Encarnacion and Posednik injured we are getting a good look just how thin we are.
What really gets me is that, with all these guys injured, one would imagine that we might use this time to look at some of our young prospects. But no, what do we do? We give playing time to guys like Jayson Nix (28 and with his 5th major league team, hasn't hit with any of them), Corey Patterson (31, 7 teams, hasn't shown any reason why he should be getting at bats in the majors), Mike McCoy (30, ok I sort of like him but still), Chris Woodward (35, 5 teams, .215 career batting average) and John McDonald (36, love you John).
Now, pick any of these guys, I wouldn't mind having them on the bench. Pinch hit, pinch run, pinch in, defensive sub, nice clubhouse presence, they are all fine for that. But playing then every day for a stretch is, well, a stretch. Sure, the small sample gods might smile on them for a bit. After a few games, you see why they are bench players.
Rajai Davis goes down with an injury. We could use Corey Patterson. We all know that he has had a bunch of chances in the majors and we know he hasn't succeeded. Now we have Darin Mastroianni in Vegas. Yeah he isn't hitting much there, but why not try him. Maybe we'll catch lightening in a bottle for a couple of weeks, like the Rays have with Sam Fuld. He is on the 40 man, so we have already burnt an option. We aren't expecting him to be with the team for long, so we aren't worried about super-two status. Would he be good? I doubt it, but you never know. Would he be much worse than Patterson? I doubt it.
Jayson Nix (who the small sample gods have really blesed), Aaron Hill and, at least for a couple of days, Edwin Encarnacion are out. So, we get treated to Mike McCoy and John McDonald out there each day. I love them both, but having both in the lineup is definitely not a recipe for success. I know all the reasons not to bring Lawrie up. I agree with all of the reasons. I know Alex has said he doesn't want to bounce Lawrie up and down, but really, what would be the cost of bringing him up for two weeks (the length of Aaron's time on the DL), make it clear to him that he is going down again after, even if he say hits two home runs in his first game and then do it. I mean, they did that with JP last year (even though I wasn't thrilled that he didn't play much while up) and it doesn't seem to have hurt him.
Anyway, it is just a thought. We know what our bench guys can give us, they are fine for filling in for a game or two. But for longer stretches, why not see what one of the young guys can do for a could of week.
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You sound like a broken record : )
Everybody’s thin when you lose five hitters. If our bench were Molina, JMac, Nix and Podsednick, it would be fine. Not thin. If we wanted to deviate from the plan and call up Thames, Cooper or Lawrie, we’d be fine. The fact is we’ve had a lot of injuries and have chosen to patch the problems rather than call up prospects this early in the season. Not a sign of thinness. I’m happy with the decision.
Oh wait, that’s me that sounds like a broken record.
Agree!! Bring Lawrie up already!
and also Cooper and Thames
by Marcos Montenegro on Apr 25, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
Stay the course....
We need to follow what’s been successful for us, which is following AA and his plan. Moving players up before they’re 100% ready is something that could potentially hurt us. We can afford to take it slow because we’re not contending this year. Besides, we just need fillers for a couple of weeks, and shouldn’t waste options on players we want to keep around.
agree
“I love them both, but having both in the lineup is definitely not a recipe for success.”
- we’re not expected to win anything this year, and while it may be nice to win 2 out of every 3 games, it doesn’t really matter in the long run. Besides, i’m kinda liking seeing Johnny Mac in the line up. Always a wizard with the glove AND he has more homers than Aaron Hill!
wait
you don’t think winning 2 out of every 3 games would matter in the long run?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
obviously not
winning two out of every three only works out to 108 wins on the season.. who wants that
That should at least be good enough for a Wild Card race, right?
Or maybe next year when there are 2 wild card teams 108 wins should do?
Who? Who is Karim Garcia?
"Hall of Famers miss 7 out of 10 times. The odds are in your favour. Babe Ruth is dead. Throw Strikes" - Greg Zaun
What part of following AA and his plan has been successful for us?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
top 5 prospect pool
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ridding us of wells contract, drabek and ridding us of the riccardi fiascos.
He’s also set us up for 2012 contention that will last for years, and where we can spend smartly on free agents because of our new financial stability. Not translated into lots of victories, but set us up for long term success.
In AA I trust!
by ddbumpus on Apr 25, 2011 11:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
long term plan
As a fan I would dearly love to see Lawrie, Cooper, Thames, etc.. up here playing, but I’m actually glad AA hasn’t deviated from his plan. He’s stated certain skills must be learned by players at all levels before they are promoted. So keep them down there, let them learn and when they’re ready; bring them up. No need to rush them when we aren’t going to contend this year.
One of the major reasons for failed prospects other than injury is advancing them too quickly. If given the choice, I’d rather be too careful; then too aggressive.
It's not because of the options, or arbitration, it's because of the roadmap
The Jays are in rebuilding mode. And part of any rebuilding is the need to follow the organizational plans as best as possible. Now, the plans laid out for the Major League club is falling apart. But that doesn’t mean that AA should rip up the development plans for their prospects. If they are not ready to be promoted now, they shouldn’t be just because of injuries.
I would love to see Lawrie, Cooper, Thames, Mastroianni, Stewart, etc. up with the big club over the journeymen the Jays have on their active roster now. But they have a specific development plan suited for them, that the management believes will turn them into the best possible ball player they can be. I hope that AA continues to show restraint from calling players up earlier than scheduled.
by Minor Leaguer on Apr 25, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Completely agree.
Keep in mind too that we have a new manager. I don’t like the “this is a mess” feeling right now but throwing rookies into the mix (especially Brett Lawrie) doesn’t seem like much of a solution.
by Mike Friesen on Apr 25, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a lttle disappointed with the retreads
But I’m OK with it too. I’d like older prospect such as Mastroianni to have a shot over Patterson, who is playing like the fringe player he is. I’m OK with McCoy and PMoD because I really don’t see a decent prospect at Vegas who would be worth taking a shot at. I definitely do not want to expose Hech or any other AA prospect to the majors.
Thames should not come up because there’s not position for him.
Lawrie should not come up because it’s important that he gets lots of defensive plays at 3rd and the Jays should avoid starting his arbitration clock as much as possible once they made the decision to start him in Vegas.
I can agree with that.
Even though he didn show too much in the majors.
by ddbumpus on Apr 25, 2011 11:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Blasphemy!
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Why?
His fielding is at least a couple steps behind McCoy and even EE and Nix, and while his bat was good last year in the PCL, he didn’t exactly set the world on fire with the Mets. I can see the value in keeping him as a possible bench guy, but not ahead of either Mac or McCoy.
why
Mac can’t hit for beans, even a 90 wRC+ would blow McDonald’s bat out of the water. McCoy’s bat is acceptable but it’s not like Emaus would be much, if at all, worse, and Emaus could actually be a decent hitter. I don’t know anything about Emaus’ glove, is it that bad?
He looked really bad in New York, and I’ve always heard him described as an slightly below average glove at best. Mind you, I’ve only actually seen his production with the Mets, and that was only 14 games or so. What I did see was pretty shocking; no sense of positioning, real trouble getting over for the double play, little mental lapses. It could just have been shaky nerves from his first few weeks in the majors, but it was ugly to see.
However, my opinion is based on the fact that I’d rather have the stronger defensive player with a young pitching staff. If you’re willing to accept awful defense for a bat, you might as well bring up Lawrie and let him learn 3B in the majors.
I don't think it's fair to judge him based on the SSS in NYM
I don’t love Emaus, and I also didn’t see him play (so no knowledge of the mental lapses), but it seems tough for me to believe that a guy who OBA’s in the high 300s even in the PCL would hit a lot worse than Johnny Mac (and I still know next to nothing about his glove, so there’s that too)
They arent even close to being warmed up yet
They have played about 16 games.
Judging anyone after 16 games is pretty much nonsensical.
A guy may be hitting .350 after 16 – I say lets take a peek after 60 games.
Same for the guy at .200 – 16 games means nothing.
I hope AA takes his time. I know it is very hard for fans to watch a Rivera or a Patterson day in and day out – but that pain shoudlnt be reason to rush anyone up to the big leagues.
It’s not really a 16 game sample for a guy like Patterson. It’s a seven year + 16 game sample. Same for Woodward, Nix and Johnny Mac (although we all love him, so that’s okay). I’m not advocating calling up Lawrie just yet, but I would love to see Mastro play for a week over Patterson.
by masterkembo on Apr 25, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Patterson...
Had a good year last season with a bad team (Orioles) – and obviously the Jays were hoping they could catch lightening in a bottle too.
No one like’s the loses – but I’m glad that most of us are sticking with AA and his plan instead of panicking…
by Paul Chicago on Apr 25, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Who’s panicking? Let’s face it, the difference between Patterson and Mastro is most likely negligible, however, at least Mastro is still a prospect and it would be nice to see what he can do at the major league level (if anything).
I’m all aboard with AA and his plan – that doesn’t mean that AA doesn’t make mistakes. And it doesn’t mean that we can’t question decisions that we disagree with.
Not Just The Plan...
But there’s also the possibility that the organization sees something in, say, a guy like Nix being a possible asset for the future. Two years ago, and Jose Bautista’s name would be in the list of retreads who never really hit for a half dozen teams. This is exactly the time of a rebuilding year that it’s worth rolling the dice on a couple of long shots who haven’t caught on with a team and see if there’s something there.
With all the pitching depth AA builds, you would think he’d have done a lot more in the way of insuring decent bench depth too. At the same time, the lack of production from most everyday players in the lineup has been just as much a detriment to the teams ability to hit as the thin bench has been.
What are you doing, Dwayne?
I know, I know, the Jays hit a ton of homers last year, but their team BA and OBP were subpar. They’re no better this year, and Travis Snider, one of the great hopes of the franchise, is lost at the plate. Can you help him, Dwayne, or are you the one who messed him up in the first place (along with Cito’s poor mentoring of him)?
Murphy deserves credit for what he’s done to help Bautista with his swing, but over all, I don’t think the Jays are well served with him as a coach. Again, besides Jose, I don’t see hitters with much plate discipline on this team. Whatever the Yankees and Red Sox are being taught about that, Murphy should be preaching the same thing in Toronto.
I’m not convinced that obeying “Murphy’s Law” will prove beneficial to the Jays in reaching the next level. Repeal it!!
Blue Feathers
by Blue Feathers on Apr 25, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This team is not winning this year
I completely disagree with this “long term plan” including us never bringing up minor leaguers “before they are ready”. If they are hitting .400 in AAA and in the future they will be on the big league roster then why not bring them up now?
Check out what Alan Ashby had to say today on the Jeff Blair show. I think he is bang on. Something along the lines of if a player is so fragile that moving him up and down between the minors and the big leagues causes him to play poorly it means that he may not have had the makeup to make it in the majors.
On a side note I find what he said about Travis Snider very interesting as well. The interview is at the beginning of the hour.
Jeff Blair says Travis looks lost and Ashby agrees with him. Both says he has all world potential. Ashby thinks he lost confidence and his batting stance has changed since he first came up.
That was basically it. pretty much what every one is saying about Travis.
I found a delivery in my flaw
Ashby also added
that he thinks it hurt Snider that when he came up he had good games then was forced to sit out for extended periods of time. He does not seem to have the confidence that he had when he was brought up originally.
Don't want lawrie, thames, or cooper up
But why not mastro? I think he could be better than corey at least.
Choose me, Ash!
by Pikachu on Apr 25, 2011 1:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
yeah I agree on Mastro
but not Lawrie, I was hoping he’d be like Longoria or Heyward – doesn’t come up until he’s up here to stay. Wait until his defense is ready and let him work on making more consistent contact in the meantime also.
I'm not an expert on what to do but...
I do know that we have holes and they need to stop being patched. Our Rivera RF and Bautista 3B plan was scratched, quickly. Now our E5 at 3B “Plan B” has been scratched as well. Thank goodness Lind at 1B has been beyond expectations.
Guys being hurt is entirely another thing and it’s frustrating but nothing to be done. But Rivera DH and Nix 3B is not what I want to see for the next 5 months. We have young kids in the minors doing really well and if we’re in a learning process at the major league levels, I don’t see why guys like Lawrie and Thames aren’t here.
Also we need to make a project of Snider. His swing is way too long. He’s getting frustrated at the plate, chasing garbage breaking balls. Come on coaches, we need to help this kid, he’s here in the majors but he still needs your help, and sending him down to the minors is not the right move.
It was a mistake with Cecil in my opinion as well.
I’d much rather we be having these ups and downs, as long as our major league coaches were here and putting their efforts on the right people.
Thoughts? Any agreeance?
Rivera RF and E5 3B was never a plan
if it was, where would Bautista play? Rivera was permanent DH from March 30th onwards and now no one seems to have any idea who’s playing what (and no one = me, of course)
Rivera RF was Plan A and E5 3B was Plan B
and both have been scratched. I think E5 as DH and backup 1B is the right move. I’d like to see Rivera get a little more of a chance, sitting him for several games before the Tampa series I don’t see being beneficial, but if he’s most useful as trade bait and he’s not worth anything then when do the Jays and he part ways
by Willoverkill on Apr 25, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Cecil
I wonder if Cecil was sent down because he was not attempting what the coaches were suggesting?
More like
His velocity is down, his breaking ball is not as sharp and is now too similar to his fastball, and he has options left. Basically, he’s been given time down in the minors to figure things out.
Which I don't agree with...
because he has an excellent pitching coach up here, a former pitcher and pitching coach for a manager, and he’s going to go through this again so how does letting him figure things out in the minors help him?
If it’s a disobediance thing, sit him on one of his starts, let his colleagues on the pitching staff tell him stop being such a baby we’re all in this together and you’re hurting all of us with your attitude.
by Willoverkill on Apr 25, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think is it at all
I think they want to give him a chance to work out his problems with the pressure off…that is in the minors.
Well, I’m sure he’s been given a plan and instruction on what he needs to do. The time in Vegas is for him to put the plan into action.
so how does letting him figure things out in the minors help him
I think letting him figure things out in the minors helps the big club more than it helps him. No sense in running him out everyday to get pounded and put undue pressure on the hitters to help him out by scoring runs. They have enough problems already in this area.
I think it helps Cecil...
A big part of a pitcher’s game is confidence. Cecil has been openly frustrated with his stuff since Spring Training. He needs to go to the Minors, miss some bats of less talented players, and come back up when he has faith in his stuff.
I’m fine with them not calling up young players now. Probably it’s because they are not ready and don’t want to start their “clocks” prematurely.
I’m fine with retreads like Mc, Mac and Nix as long as they aren’t full timers once the injured guys return.
Why are we saying that Lawrie is not ready yet? He is hitting over .400 right now and his defense cannot be much worse then the 7 combined errors we have had this year at 3b with Edwin and Nix.
You have a team with injured players and 3 guys hitting .200 or lower. What harm can come to bring up a kid who is tearing it up in the minors and telling him, go do what you have been doing, you are up for 2 weeks to help us out until Hill can return and continue to pop up every time he gets to the plate.
Because they want to see how he adjusts to teams adjusting to him. Right now hes just hitting everything, what does he do when they throw him junk? does he strike out everytime? or have the discipline to take a walk?
Also he needs more work on defense at third.
by bowling_kid25 on Apr 25, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
exactly
people need to simmer down on lawrie
We get it, he is Canadian, he’s raking 20 games into the triple A season, and we are lacking production at his big league position.
Still there is no need to rush him. He needs to prove he can sustain this level of play over an extended peroid of time, if he is still hitting .400 in July and our third basemen are barley hitting over .200 then complaints are justified.
Until then just be content he is having a good start to the season and hope he keeps improving at third.
If we are using errors as the measuring stick Lawrie has almost as many as those two combined…
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I agree that was my point, we have a guy who will hit better then those two and the error rate will stay the same. So there is not a big downside in bringing him in to see what he can do.
what
no, that’s not the point. the point is the guy isn’t ready, because we get on E5 (mostly) and Nix (we should do so more than we do) for making lots of errors. our current 3Bs make too many, so bringing Lawrie up wouldn’t be an improvement
and i doubt he hits better than edwin
nix maybe, but not by a whole lot
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Apr 25, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno about Nix
he’s pretty awful at hitting, this year notwithstanding. Lawrie was decent enough in Spring Training and Nix never hit like Lawrie has in the Minors, even when he was older than Brett at the same levels. at four years older, at AAA, Nix had numbers that, while good, don’t even approach what Lawrie is doing right now at 21 at the same age (obvioulsy SSS and selection bias and whatnot). I am pretty sure Edwin would hit better than Lawrie with the Jays, though
well i try not to buy into super hot starts
or Vegas numbers too much. I guess he could hit better than nix.
Choose me, Ash!
oh no
I don’t expect the guy to hit .400 for the rest of the AAA season, but his AA season at 20 and holding-his-own Spring Training, plus tempered expectations in 2011 suggest to me he could be an acceptable offensive player (to the tune of 95 wRC+, perhaps higher)
people are just angry and frustrated because we're losing
i don’t remember any of this talk when nix and patterson was hitting .350.
Choose me, Ash!
you weren't looking closely enough
plenty of people didn’t want Nix playing everyday even when he hit those two homers, myself included. Patterson I’m fine with, because he can defend (unlike Nix) and because he gets the platoon advantage with Davis when Rajai is healthy.
i meant in general
obviously there were some people that didn’t want nix everyday (myself included), but there wasn’t as much outrage at that time
Choose me, Ash!
Winning makes everything better
and losing makes everything worse
by IanJ on Apr 25, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yep
that’s why I never understand it when people say, “Who cares if we lose 100 games this season, it will get us a better draft pick?” Losing 100 games sucks
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
particularly in baseball
as opposed to other sports where one player exerts much more influence, and where a drafted player can make an immediate impact.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I'd imagine
in other sports like basketball and hockey new (top) draftees have lower attrition rates, but that’s just speculation
yep
I’d think that goes along with being closer to the majors
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
maybe I didn't mean attrition
I just meant fewer top draft picks (say, top-5 or so) end up as “busts” compared to plenty of #1 overall MLB players who never even sniff the Show
Losing Sucks
There isn’t really a straight answer for how to help out this offense. It would suck to be AA right now.
Looks like we are in for another very bumpy road trip. Lot of people on edge right now, hopefully everyone had a good Easter to get them in a good mood, and we can keep fights down this time.
I wouldn’t mind being AA in three years though, when we win the WS =D
this just in
Jose Bautista may be the best hitter in the AL
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-jose-bautista-the-best-hitter-in-the-al/
Choose me, Ash!
Look at the batting values on FanGraphs WAR
The bench guys (Molina +2.5, Nix + 2.3, McCoy + 0.4, JMac -0.4, CPatt -1.9) are a total of +2.9 runs above average so far this year. JBau is carrying the team with a +14.2. Only 3 other regulars are pluses (Yunel +1.9, JPA +1.8 and EE +0.2). Where’s our problem? Hill -2.6, Lind -3.3. Snider -4.4, Davis -4.3 , Rivera -5.8.
Our thin bench as a group has actually been an asset, the real problem so far has been the abject offensive failure of the majority of our "everyday " lineup. If at least 3 of those 5 players who have dragged the team down don’t turn things around, calling up one player, no matter how good, is useless.
I am not obsessed with this sport enough to watch every single at bat, however I am beginning to become concerned with Snider. He isn’t hitting well and his frustrations are clearly getting to him, although I believe he has been walking slightly more.
Somebody console me please.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Sniders ongoing justification for his struggles has been his age
I’m still on the “he’s only 23 bangwagon” myself, but that won’t fly for very much longer.
by craig in calgary on Apr 25, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The age of a player seems relevant insofar as a younger age generally means less experience, but Snider has 684 at bats to his name. Are his peripheral statistics encouraging?
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Too bad we traded Napoli
Currently he is 10/32 (.313) with 5 of those hits being Home Runs. He could have helped at this point.
he's probably the best player ever
and we didn’t already have 2 catchers, and 3 first basemen/DH types, so yeah
Maybe he doesn’t understand that his designation is to hit.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe he hits balls straight at fielders
you’re not supposed to do that Juan! what an idiot.
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Apr 25, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
At least games would be interesting
I agree that there is no rush to bring up Lawrie and other top young prospects, but Mastroianni and Thames are already 24-25 and playing high minor league ball. If they they are not ready for the bigs now, when will they be, when they are 28? At least it would make games interesting to watch having them up
maybe
unless they go 0-for-5 and blunder around in the field. as fans we’re easily swept away by prospect porn, but as fans we should be able to accept that the paid staff of professional scouts, coaches, and our general manager might know more about pro ball players than we do.
This year’s team clearly isn’t going to be competing with anybody for anything. Either way the team will not be competitive and lose more games than it wins. Your proposed solution solves nothing and takes away consistent playing time from developing players. The only real impact of slightly improving the team is a lower draft pick, which is obviously not ideal.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah last year had the makings of a tank season, but everybody decided to hit home runs and win or whatever.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I said they would come close to losing 100 games last year haha.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB is different from the NBA where having a top 5 draft pick can make a franchise. Tanking isn’t considered that smart a strategy unless there is an amazing player and you have a legitimate shot at the no. 1 pick. How does bringing up Mastroianni take away consistent playing time from developing players? Patterson? Davis? what you say makes no sense
Cole and Rendon are very close to being Strasburg and Harper level.
i would tank a season for one of them
Choose me, Ash!
It’s that whole thing of would you rather be mediocre and miss the playoffs or absolutely crap and miss the playoffs.
on a day by day basis
I’d rather be mediocre. Baseball has too long a season for me to put up with being a consistent loser so that the team can draft a player that typically isn’t seen in the majors for a few years anyway.
Well my evaluation of the hypothetical move is based on what happened with JP last year. He came up and played irregularly, perhaps under a new manager this wouldn’t happen.
Regardless of the league, there is a positive correlation between draft pick and player quality. Floundering around in 3-4-5th place in the AL East accomplishes nothing.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If you can get that great draft pick that will turn the franchise around, then it is a decent strategy. I guess I was thinking that a lot of the young prospects that will be key to the jays’ future are already on the big league team and losing too horribly will stunt their development by ingraining bad habits and teaching them to lose. is that worth moving up two draft positions
Your assumption is based purely on speculation and I would put little stock in something like that happening. I believe that every single increase in draft position gives AA and his scouting staff a better chance to fill an important hole in our roster. I believe the team is stocked up on good players, however lacks in great players.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Random question...
Does Bautista get an invite to the homerun derby this year?
Maybe, but he shouldn’t go. I’m pretty sure people who go deep into the derby experience a power outage after the break.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm unconvinced
it seems to me like selection bias (I have absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support this) but guys like Pujols, Fielder, etc… didn’t ever seem to be really affected. If I had to take a wild guess, it’s possible that guys who are experiencing fluky power (Brandon Inge comes to mind) just get hit by regression after the All-Star break whereas there might not actually be any correlation between the Derby and the regression.
I could also bo 100% wrong.
Haha, I like your disclaimer. Sample size could be a plausible explanation, however I recall Bobby Abreu winning the derby after having a good first half and really cooling down after the break. I have no idea what the difference of physical exertion is between the derby and regular batting practice, but if it was significant it wouldn’t surprise me if there was an existing relationship between derby participation and lesser performance after the break.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
isn't batting practice basically a home run derby for those guys?
I don’t but that there is anything about that derby that causes any decline in performance, though I am open to it being proven
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Mhm, this is my curiosity. I’m not sure how much harder they try during the derbies, but that would obviously answer the question and determine whether or not there is a significant relationship between the two variables.
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i think its a safe assumption that when they down to the last two balls they try a little bit harder, which is why most of the HR are hit on the last couple
by bowling_kid25 on Apr 25, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you believe that there is any benefit other than good publicity to participation in the derby?
by scrambles the death dealer on Apr 25, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe it has the same benefit as everything else about baseball – entertainment. Not my cup of tea, but people seem to enjoy it.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I like it about as much as the 3-point contest
it’s fun I guess, but I don’t even really go out of my way to watch it. I really hate the subjective All-Star Game festivities in every sport; the Slam Dunk Contest kind of sucks IMO…
agreed
I skip the all-star game and the hr derby every year and just sort of take a few days off from baseball
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
Canadian superhero Brett Lawrie to the rescue!!
Strengths: Supersonic bat speed, deceptive speed, superhuman hustle, swagger.
Weaknesses: Glove, eye at the plate
Arch-nemesis: Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Orioles, and scouts from Project Prospect
With his trusty sidekick, Eric Thames:
Strengths: Super strength, ultra-intimidation of RHPs, power stache
Weaknesses: Glove, eye at the plate
Arch-nemesis: Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, and Orioles
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
by Frag on Apr 25, 2011 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
hahahahaha I love it, except Thames glove is getting better ;)
by Joseph Kirby on Apr 25, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, they say thames has been working on defense this year, and coaches are seeing improvement. Anyone have an idea how good Cooper’s glove is at first base? his bat has certainly come on fire
I seem to recall
one of Cooper’s strengths as a prospect was defense so I presume he’s still pretty good.
I've heard otherwise
From Jays Journal article about Cooper:
Jays fans seemed to think they had something really special on their hands in Cooper, and Baseball America even ranked him as the Jays’ 5th best prospect after the 2008 season. Cooper earned praise for his phenomenal barrel awareness, sweet swing, and ability to hit for average and power once he incorporates his full body into his swing more. Baseball America predicted that, because he was such a below-average athlete, runner, and defender, Cooper’s bat would have to get him to the Majors.
It could be improving, though.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Those super-yoga classes are really helping him. ;)
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Yoga should be mandatory for all the players. Watching Adam Lind doing the splits as he stretches out to make catches, I often wonder how he can do that without yoga. Or maybe he does it I don’t know. Yoga and pilates are great.
I also believe that swimming (freestyle/front crawl) should be part of a pitchers conditioning regimen. It helps build strength in the rotator cuff and helps build the fluidity of the arm motion. Strength is good, but pitchers don’t need to bulk up with weight training as much as they need the consistency of motion.
Hugo thinks I'm a lazy academic
by bluejaysstatsgeek on Apr 26, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
What is the strategy of this team?
I thought it was a rebuilding year?
Instead – We now have a whole lot of 30 to 35 year old retreads in the OF???
So much for rebuilding.
If you are a young prospect in this organization – you have to be scratching your head at this point. Situation seems to be chaotic at the moment.
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