View From the Other Side: Questions For WiHaloFan from Halos Heaven
by Tom Dakers on Apr 8, 2011 1:30 PM EDT
in Upcoming Series Preview
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PrintI sent off some questions to WiHaloFan from SB Nation's great Los Angeles Angels site, Halos Heaven and he was kind enough to answer. It went both ways, I did the same for him.
What do the Angel fans think of the Wells trade? How does he look in LF?
Most hated it mainly because of the salary the Angels took on. If Wells'
salary isn't a consideration, a majority of Angels fans are okay with the
acquisition as it upgrades the Angels' defense in leftfield. So far this
season Wells has looked like crap at the plate, but his defense has
definitely been better than who the Angels had out there last season. A lot
of fans were disappointed in the deal since Napoli was a fan-favorite, and
now that he is with a division rival, it's even worse.
Can we have a quick scouting on the starting pitchers the Jays will face?
Let's see...Santana, Kazmir, and Weaver. Santana is the AL's best #3
starter (in my opinion). He's a fastball/slider pitcher who needs to be
able to spot his slider to be effective. If he has command of the slider
he's very tough, one of the toughest pitchers in the AL. If he's missing
with the slider, it'll be a good day for patient Jays' hitters. Scott
Kazmir is terrible. This Saturday's game may be the last game he pitches
for the Angels. Jered Weaver = 2011 Cy Young award winner. Enough said.
How does your bullpen look? I see Scott Downs is hurt, you'll really like
him when he is back.
It looked awful in Kansas City, but now that Mike Scioscia as replaced
Fernando Rodney with Jordan Walden as the Halo closer it's look a lot
better. Once his toe heals, I think Downs is going to be a great compliment
to the Halo pen, and could eventually get some save opportunities if Walden
falters.
How are your catchers doing? Are you missing Mike Napoli?
This is a sore subject. Most Angel fans have been completely confused with
Scioscia's man-love for Jeff Mathis as he's easily one of the worst players
in baseball. Although rookie Hank Conger could adequately fill Mathis' spot
on the roster right now, we'll probably have to suffer through another
season of suck behind the plate. I think fans were split down the middle
as to who liked Napoli and who hated him. Those of us who liked him
appreciated the power he showed, especially at a typically weak offensive
position (catcher), and the good job he did last season filling in for
injured Kendrys Morales at first base. On the other side of the fence were
the fans who thought he was worthless with runners in scoring position and
hated his weak defense behind the plate...which I didn't think was that bad.
I'm not a big fan of Juan Rivera in the outfield. Did he have more range as
an Angel? He looks like he has no range at all.
He doesn't. Taking Juan Rivera off of the Angels hands was the cost of
getting rid of Wells' contract. He has an decent bat, but is a statue in
left.
Anything else Jays fans should know about the Halos?
The Angels offense has started the season hot. If they can stay hot, the
Jays are going to have their hands full, especially now that the bullpen
situation has been addressed. Prediction for this weekend: Friday will be
a close, low-scoring game as I really like Kyle Drabek and Santana will be
pumped up for the Angels home opener. Saturday will be close too, but more
like a 12-11, 13-10 game. Sunday, Weaver will get his 3rd win of the
season.
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Haha
It seems like the Angels fans hate the Wells trade. Something i don’t really get is fans complaining about how much money a player is making, obviously there is no salary cap in baseball, so unless the bad contract is stopping the organization from spending in free agency, or is making other players (that are outperforming the player with the huge contract) unhappy then who really cares? The Angels have tons of money and will spend it when need be.
Follow me on Twitter.. @phoking_awesome
Heres to the 2011-2012 season!
by pho king awesome on Apr 8, 2011 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
Fans care because all teams, even the Yankees have internal budgets. Every contract a team has impacts their ability to either sign other players or block prospects.
Would you care if the Jays signed John McDonald to an extension worth 10 million a year?
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Only if it was backloaded and we could trade him to the Angels before the huge annual numbers kick in.
by Siver on Apr 8, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
not really
thats not my department, if it comes down to the jays adding someone better and they say we cant because were paying McDonald too much money then yeah i saw wtf why are we paying him so much but if it never comes into question and rogers is willing to shell out whatever amount of money to get the job done then in the end who cares?
Follow me on Twitter.. @phoking_awesome
Heres to the 2011-2012 season!
by pho king awesome on Apr 8, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So your presuming a scenario where there is a bottomless wallet and until there isn’t there is no problem at all.
To each their own but I believe that is a pretty narrow naive view
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Sorry, but to expand on that.
Basically you are acknowledging that its a problem if it becomes a problem. My argument is unless there is a bottomless wallet which their isn’t for any team. At some point it will become a problem regardless,
Whether that takes the form of not being able to sign a player you want because of budgets, Or the GM isn’t given that much again by the Owners because of poor investment decisions or something else.
Eventually problem contacts are a problem.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Yeah and thats what i said, i have no problem with them until they become a problem. If every single one becomes a problem then eventually at some point i wont be happy about the contract. I understand your point that you should have a problem with it as soon as it happens because inevitably its going to get in the way of something better, but since I have no opinion on what happens behind closed doors, I choose to not care until it becomes apparent that this insanely large contract is holding back the team.
Follow me on Twitter.. @phoking_awesome
Heres to the 2011-2012 season!
by pho king awesome on Apr 8, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So basically,
You choose to close your eyes to problem contracts until they become painfully problematic?
I hope you don’t hold that philosophy for other aspects of life.
by g_v on Apr 8, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This blog definitely has a range from its community
Some B^3’er are a little more invested into the Jays, but I don’t think its fair to harass someone just because they employ “ignorance is bliss” to their local baseball team.
It makes us look like we take ourselves too seriously.
2011 Jays slogan should be "Power and Speed", not just "Hustle and Heart".
Proud member of the AL North
@VagabondBansal
Harass? Really?
I challenged his point of view, yes, but I don’t think my post was antagonistic.
Apologies if it came across that way.
by g_v on Apr 8, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
As Hugo said when Griffin suggested fans should care about player salaries.
That it is a short step from that to not caring about wins and losses.
I don't understand what you're trying to say,
could you rephrase?
by g_v on Apr 8, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty confident it should read
As Hugo said when Griffin suggested fansshouldshouldn’t care about player salaries.
If you can't pay em' trade em' and pay for someone else
i love the jays as everyone else here, if the jays had a problem contract and AA went to Rogers saying he needed x amount of dollars to do this i’m pretty confident rogers would give him the money thats why one or two over-payments aren’t really that big of a deal. My first comment was actually about the Angels situation and i was pointing out that the Angels will definitely spend money no matter if Vernon’s contract is a problem or not.
Follow me on Twitter.. @phoking_awesome
Heres to the 2011-2012 season!
by pho king awesome on Apr 9, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw a couple Angels games this season and Wells well...
Wells looked completely lost at the plate. Hellickson pitched to him like he was pitching to a minor league pitcher. Good morning, good afternoon, and good night. 3 pitches and 2 of them were even in the strike zone. It made me feel bad for Angel’s fans.
Defensively Wells seemed worse than I remember here, especially in the Angel’s 12-9 drubbing by Kansas City of all teams. Boxscore does not show it but Well’s mishandled 2 doubles to left, one very catchable. In the first instance he couldn’t find the ball off the wall and allowed all 3 base runners to score getting KC back into the game. Later he missed a catchable fly ball and KC came to tie and eventually win the game. I felt bad for Wells.
In extra innings I got a chance to see what I consider AA’s biggest mistake to date (flame wars start now, I have spoken sacrilege). Collins got the win and looked utterly dominant. Still don’t know why we did not “throw in” a real throw in pitcher to Atlanta in the Escobar Atlanta trade (Can’t believe Collins was the key given how quickly Atlanta traded him to KC). As I feared then, Collins will be a feared in the AL (laugh all you want but try to explain to buddies on the team how you couldn’t get wood on a 5 foot 7 inch pitcher’s stuff, the mocking will be endless and all batters will come to the plate with pomp and then anxiety). He is a high ceiling (pardon the pun) reliever, and down the road I think he could be number 3 starter on a decent rotation (3 quality plus pitches and a deceptive delivery). Then I felt bad for Jays fans.
by freethinkinged on Apr 8, 2011 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think he could be a great reliever, But I dont think he will ever be transitioned to the rotation.
And even the greatest relievers don’t have that much value. Especially if they hadn’t played in the bigs prior to that.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
He will never be a starter
He probably won’t be a closer either, but he will be a very good setup man and the top lefty reliever on most teams. He’s got some impressive stuff for his stature.
Isn't high-ceiling reliever
an oxymoron? Relievers inherently have low ceilings, no?
Also I see no basis for your claim that he could be a starter, let alone a number 3 starter on a decent rotation.
At best, he is a setup man or closer; certainly nothing to feel bad about considering the return we received.
by g_v on Apr 8, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
the guy has exactly 0 starts in 151 Minors appearances, there is absolutely no chance this guy’s turning into a starter.
as for our need: Rzep and Purcey both look like they can be pretty good lefty relievers, Villanueva, Janssen, Rauch, when you start needing depth there’s Mills, Roenicke, maybe Litsch/Reyes… relievers are easy to find. if that’s AA’s biggest mistake is trading away a reliever (even a good one) with no Majors experience to (help) get a 28 year old, potential top-5 shortstop under team control… the next several years look real good from our perspective
Collins still can't get respect. Even from Bluebird Banter peeps!
Any other reliever with 3 plus pitches, low 90s fastball with movement, and deceptive delivery with his minor league track record and mlb showing thus far and we would at least consider him as a possible candidate for a rotation in the future.
Relievers are relievers usually because of a limited arsenal.
Have you guys ever heard of Lincecum? Do 2 1/2 extra inches in height and 4 miles per hour on the fastball really make their futures so different (kidding really but you get my point).
I think the reason he was never given a chance to start is his height. And now that he has proven all the experts wrong and actually made it to he show and dominated the argument is he never started so he can’t ever start. If he has the pitches and the arm and starters are more valuable than relievers then I think if he was 6’2 he would be or at least their would be a discussion about whether he should be a starter. I guess if a team needed starters bad enough they might consider a conversion (I know its a stretch). But it has happened and still does. Some of the best starters today were converted relievers. Wainwright comes to mind. And St. Louis has had a history of this sort of thing.
Everyone here loved Collins. We followed him all last year before the trade and even then. Go back and look at Tom’s recap minor league posts, Collins was always listed.
But that doesn’t diminish that he was/is still just a reliever, and if he had the chops to be a starter someone would have looked into that. Especially a team as invested in scouting as the Jays currently are.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
agreed
also,
If he has the pitches and the arm and starters are more valuable than relievers then I think if he was 6’2 he would be or at least their would be a discussion about whether he should be a starter
maybe. but he isn’t.
Yeah, it's kind of a moot point since there isn't a single team in baseball that would give him that opportunity.
It might be something to consider as a ‘should he get that opportunity’ type question, but the answer to the ‘would he get that opportunity’ is a resounding no across the board.
On the contrary, Collins was a fan favourite here amongst just about everyone who follows the jays' farm system even loosely
It’s simply a reality that someone with his frame will probably never be given the opportunity to start, even if they could handle it. There’s a bit of a difference between lincecum (who is still about 5’11, isn’t he?) and a guy who is 5 and a half feet tall by even the most generous of estimations. Not saying I agree with that, I don’t know enough about this sort of thing to say whether this is a legitimate concern (small bodied pitchers lacking endurance), or simply a common wisdom thing with no real empirical backing. But either way, he just isn’t going to ever get that opportunity.
To Tom and the admins of BBB...
This is an awesome idea. If the other admins of other SB baseball pages are open to this, perhaps we can have a preview like this before every series or whenever it is possible? Always nice to get the other side’s perspective on things.
There is a segment similar to this on most football SB pages during the season, I think this would be a great feature to add for all baseball sites.
Wow! Just in Boys Manny Ramirez Retired from Baseball!
You heard it here first!!!
Guess he couldn’t handle the boos!
Been there and done that in LA, Chicago and now Tampa.
How long for Damon?
for real...
got this from twitter, but still trying to find some kind of concrete article…
BillShaikin Bill Shaikin
Source: Manny tested positive for banned substance, would have been facing 100-game suspension had he not retired (or succeeded in appeal)
by blueandwhite31 on Apr 8, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Mike McCoy as the DH is looking pretty good now.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Apr 8, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Juan Rivera...
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Apr 8, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently some kind of issue under MLB drug policy led to the decision
Sad but perhaps not unpredictable way to exit!
That might explain why the jays seemingly wanted nothing to do with him.
With AA being (supposedly) huge on vetting players before he signs or trades for them and all that, it doesn’t seem to be unlikely anyways.
Whoa
Just noticed Vernon’s start.
.111 average, 0 HR, 1 RBI
by craig in calgary on Apr 8, 2011 4:31 PM EDT reply actions
Juan takes a walk though
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Apr 8, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i hope that's a joke
rivera’s hitting decently. (obviously his fielding is awful)
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Apr 8, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Fastballs
High, higher, and helmet-level.
Hopefully we don’t get past the first pitch before he pops up to Hill.
by craig in calgary on Apr 8, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't he crush a helmet level fastball out of the park at least once last year?
Maybe just stick with the offspeed stuff…
breaking balls starting in the zone and ending in the dirt
he can never help himself on those it seems.
He can still turn on an inside fastball and hit it a long way, so whatever else they do I’d avoid fastballs on the middle or inner half.
Hopefully there is a game..
lots of rain there, expecting more
by bowling_kid25 on Apr 8, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But but but but it never rains in Southern California!
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Apr 8, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I like our pitching matchus in the series excluding Jo Jo Vs. Weaver)
Hopefully Drabek can have another good game. Lifetime Santana has a 4.27 ERA so by no means does he kill us.
And Cecil vs Kazmir definitely favors us. Just hope Cecil can have a bit of a better game.
If Jo Jo could just go 5 solid I’d be happy. That will be a toughie against Weaver.
Witnessed Playoffs last: April 28, 2008
Sincerely yours, Tortured T.O Fan
Lifetime Santana may have a 4.27 ERA
But last year he was arguably the toughest pitcher the Jays faced as he completely owned them.
3-0, 2 CG, 1.80 ERA, 0.64 WHIP, .128 BAA
This
I was reading through to make sure someone else noticed that. Tonight I’m not looking forward to great fantasy performance from any of my Jays players (Bautista, Lind, Escobar, Snider) in any of my league.
Unless the Jays are able to throw Santana off by getting some steals and small ball going, it’ll be a short game.
"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."
thats a really tiny sample size to be basing your opinion on
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Apr 8, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
What opinion?
That he was arguably the toughest pitcher? Three starts versus the same team isn’t that small of a sample when it is measured against one season. Regardless, it doesn’t change the fact that Santana dominated the Jays last year.
And for the most part, he dominated them again.
Absolutely need to win the Cecil/Kazmir game
otherwise there’s a good chance we could be looking at a sweep. Can’t see Reyes beating Weaver, and Santana mowed the Jays last year
Ervin Santana the best #3 starter? Jeremy Hellickson (behind Price and Shields), Drabek (Romero, Morrow), Gavin Floyd (Danks, Jackson), Dallas Braden/Gio Gonzalez (Anderson, Cahill) and Scott Baker (Liriano, Pavano) would like to discuss that claim I think.
Not sure about Baker... is he even their #3?
But I agree that there are some prettttty good #3s out there, including the other names you mentioned.
I also notice you stuck to the American League… Oswalt is a pretty awesome #3 out there in Philly, but that rotation is just criminal and shouldn’t count. Marcum should make a great #3 in Milwaukee. And Sanchez over in San Francisco is pretty nasty.
Hellickson and Drabek
Have a combined 6 career starts, id say its fair to rank Santana ahead of them at this point and time. Out of the rest of those guys, Braden is probably the only one i might take ahead of Ervin.
by ucantcoachthat on Apr 8, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The only guy on that list I'd put as Santana's equal is Gio Gonzalez.
Factor in that Gonzalez is a lefty, and I’d say he’s the only #3 I’d rather have.
So happy we missed Gonzalez in that series
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Why does he say tomorrow will likely be a 12-11, 13-10 sort of game?
Brett Cecil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Kazmir.
Cecil doesn’t get blown up all that often….
Jose Bautista has a higher midi-chlorian count than you do.
His second half last year disagrees with you
I found a delivery in my flaw
by syc on Apr 8, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Cecil's second half last year?
Out of 15 starts in July, August, and September last year, he gave up 7 runs twice and 5 runs once. 4 times he gave up 1 ER, 5 times 2 ER, 3 times 3 ER. Thats not really getting blown up very often.
Jose Bautista has a higher midi-chlorian count than you do.
3/15 = 20%
That’s fairly often.
"Don't tell me it's impossible. Be honest and tell me you can't do it. Tell me you don't know how."
How many pitchers don't get hit hard in 1/5 of their starts?
Very few.
Jose Bautista has a higher midi-chlorian count than you do.
well he feels the Angels are swinging the bat well
all good pitchers get lit up sometimes…
by ucantcoachthat on Apr 8, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I recall Cecil pitching terribly in a game in LA last year
he was throwing 87-88, and everything was up in the zone…
yet he STILL pitched 8 innings and allowed only a run (maybe none, I don’t remember the exact number).
and they only had 3 or 4 hits, and two of them came from Matsui who is no longer there.
All of this is a long way of saying I like Cecil’s chances to hold them in single digits on Saturday.
Maybe he didn't mean Cecil...
Maybe he thinks it will be 13-4 and the newly activated Dotel will come in and give up a six pack.
by Fuzzpuke on Apr 8, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
except dotel doesn't suck
sooooooooo… yeah
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Apr 8, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
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