Poll Time: Jose Reyes
by Tom Dakers on May 26, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
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PrintJohn Lott, on Twitter, pointed out this story in the NY Times, that suggests that the Jays could go after Mets shortstop Jose Reyes if he hits the free agent market after this season.
Mets owner Fred Wilpon, in an interview that showed that he is off his meds, said that Reyes will be looking for a Carl Crawford like contract. I don't think he'll get anything like that. His numbers are good, especially considering he is a shortstop, but not all-world good and he has had his share of injuries over the past few seasons.
The story also says that Alex inquired about Reyes this spring (Alex asks about about every player out there) and that he 'values athletic players', unlike other GMs who would prefer non-athletic players. It also says that Yunel Escobar could be moved to another position, like third base, if Reyes was signed. Now I don't see Yunel moving to third, because I think that spot is reserved for Brett Lawrie, but I could see them letting Aaron Hill walk, saving a few dollars there and to let them move Escobar to second. Reyes and Escobar in the middle of the infield would give you the start of a pretty great defense.
Still I don't see it, we have Adeiny Hechavarria coming up and Reyes, even if he won't get a Crawford like contract, will be asking a lot of money. I tend to think he is overvalued. But figured we could have a poll.
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The Jay's dont need Reyes.
They just need Lind back.
I'm from Halifax.
E-A-G-L-E-S!
by VickForPresident on May 26, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions
Lind is a shortstop now?
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Obviously he’s not a shortstop, I just don’t see why the jays need another shortstop.
I'm from Halifax.
E-A-G-L-E-S!
by VickForPresident on May 26, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess what I'm really getting at is
that im not ready to give up on Hill like some are.
I'm from Halifax.
E-A-G-L-E-S!
by VickForPresident on May 26, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't a midseason decision
but Reyes is younger than Hill, and only once has Hill’s wOBA been better than Reyes’, and even then only slightly.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Im all for a big FA splash
However there seems to be a logjam in the middle infield.
by craig in calgary on May 26, 2011 1:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yes but isn’t depth a good thing? If we have an infield of Reyes and Esco and one of them gets hurt it would be nice that we have Hech there to step in. Also Esco hits FA in a couple years (2 IIRC) and then theres a few options… either A) We trade Escobar to fill a different need or B) sign Escobar long term and we can include Hech in a deal.
Also a lineup of
Reyes
Escobar
Bautista
Lind
Lawrie
JPA
Snider
Thames
Davis
Looks pretty damn good to me!
If the Jays could sign him, sure, why not?
Hech is FAR from a sure thing right now. Reyes would be a great bat for our lineup, and he’d give us a true leadoff hitter.
Lawrie, Reyes, Esco, Lind on the infield would look pretty nice too.
Onions Baby Onions
Have to agree reyes would be an excellent upgrade
As far as Hech, how can we count on a player hitting .220 in AA? And no way Hill is worth 8 million a season, the way he’s hit the past year plus. However, I also can’t see AA signing Reyes if it gets into a bidding war.
FWIW, Hech is hitting a heck of a lot better recently. Still not great mind you but at least he is now holding his own with the bat.
Hech's last 10:
.190/.190/.286. He is struggling hard right now at the dish (though I have heard his D has been great over that period).
by Playoffs!!!!1 on May 26, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Long time reader, first time poster…
I love the idea of signing Reyes in the off-season especially with an extra wild card possibly next year. A middle-infield of Reyes, Escobar doesn’t get much better than that.
Also Hech isn’t hitting at all in his 2nd stint in New Hampshire but maybe he could work his way onto the bench in a year or two and learn from these guys. Plus, whos the next SS with legitimate potential in the system….DJ Thon, if we sign Reyes to a 4-5 year deal that will give him adequate time to develop.
Welcome! Luckily we have the rest of the year to see if Hill can regain form. I’d hate to lose the potential power, but we definitely need to improve our hitting in general.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
ANDDDD we have the rest of the year to see if Reyes can stay injury-free…
But, as I voted, I’ve given up on trying to guess what Alex is going to do next…
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
lol thats no fun
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
I wonder if Esco would like being moved to 2B?
He def. likes playing D and is an excellent SS… i don’t know if he’d be down to switch to 2nd.
Onions Baby Onions
I like the idea of fielder but...
he is a base clog born and sadly a injury/health accident waiting to happen.
Can’t see him aging well. Big men seldom do. Ask Shaq. (I know different sport but the comparison is valid)
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but my understanding is that he wants at minimum an 8 yr deal and...
I can’t see him sustaining his performance throughout or even 3/4s of that period. Slow power hitting first basemen who don’t run the bases especially well are abundant enough, in my opinion, that you don’t spend most of your payroll locking them up long term.
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If Fielder gets the 8 yrs he is looking for and someone will give it to him...
he would make 20 million a year til his 37th birthday. How many under 6 foot, close to 300 pound, 37 yr old players produce 20 million dollars worth of offense 3 yrs removed from 40 without the help of peds?
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
better question
how many under 6 foot, close to 300 pound, 37 yr old players have there ever been?
can you answer me this? we have a thread up detailing why we need a closer to win the division. what about having DHs that aren’t on pace for NEGATIVE FOUR WINS to win the division? we need elite hitters. we don’t have even close to an elite hitter to stick in the DH spot. we have no one coming up the pipe who will be an elite DH (Cooper’s bat might make a league average DH, and Thames too). sometimes we need to add through FA.
and about how much he’ll make – that’s how free agency works. you overpay at the end of a contract for early performance. the guy could easily post 15-20 WAR (75-100M in value) in his first 4 years, and if we win the division in that time it would be worth it. I sincerely think the addition of his elite bat would bring us VERY close to contention.
He's not old
But he’s a good candidate to age badly quickly. There was a Fangraphs or BTB article about what type of players age badly and Fielder fits many of the criteria used to identify these players.
Shaq is not a good comparison. First of all, completely different sport and second, Shaq’s size and skill set were a unique combination at that time. Fielder’s skills and size aren’t unique in a good way.
no, I know (and read the article)
but he’s really not very old (will be just 29 at the beginning of 2012), and his prime perfectly fits with the Jays plans to contend. we can’t afford to a whole lot longer, because then we can start losing a lot of key pieces. signing Fielder will slightly extend the window given our current pieces, but it will make the window a helluva lot wider
I'm not an NBA guy
but isn’t Shaq the exact opposite of what you’re trying to argue?
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
He is the exception of big men...
but his inability to continue playing because of body breakdown due primarily to the weight he has been carrying (ankles, knees) was the point I was trying to extrapolate to Fielder.
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
While getting your point, and trying to avoid nitpicking, I find it hard to compare the wear& tear on an NBA C (Shaq) and an MLB 1B/DH.
Consider the strain on the knees of someone like Shaq. Now try and compare to Fielder. I think it’s a bit of a stretch. But then, I might be wrong.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
No doubt an NBA center has more wear and tear on joints than a MLB 1b....
The joints argument was used as a starting point to illustrate how much large bodies wear faster than leaner ones in sports. I would concede that NBA Cs have greater joint stress per game and are probably better athletes (conditioning) as well. MLB 1b, often being lesser athletes, would IMHO be more prone to injury. Add in the longer season, playing in cold temperatures, running first to third, sliding and the ferocity of batting 4 times a game (back) and I would argue that 1b are not less prone to injury than NBA Cs but perhaps more and larger ones (under 6ft and close to 300 pds) probably even more so.
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you forgot something...
Playing one game against the like of Kevin Garnett equals (in cheap-shots alone) the physical strain of batting full-season.
And as for being prone to injury – that may be right, but even if you’re twice as prone (which is not the case, IMO), you dont get even half the opportunities to injure yourself.
Think about it – every jump (shot or rebound) that Shaq made is a risk for injury (not only to himself), how many of those per game? Now, even assuming that baseball is played everyday, and basketball twice a week, I don’t think it’s even remotely close.
The strain on baseball players is focused on the upper body (shoulders, elbows, back). Basketball players on lower body. The major difference for big men, in terms of strain, is focused on the lower body.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
can you imagine Fielder as a middle infielder?
by Minor Leaguer on May 26, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can you imagine him as a prince?
I believe I can…
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Reyes has had enormous difficulty staying healthy during his yout to prime years...
how much more difficult will it be for him to stay healthy during his prime to past prime years. Frailty combined with the fact that Reyes is not a prototypical lead off man (336 lifetime on base) and you have a sound and fury signing that will without a doubt be over priced for the value it provides. Overpaying is not the MO of AA. Thus can’t see it.
Health issues?
He played in 161, 153, 160 and 159 games in a 4 year stretch. Last year he played in 133 games which is still pretty decent. Obviously he had the injury in 2009, but other than that he’s played in a consistent number of games.
He is 3 years removed from that type of consitency. In his last 4 yrs....
he has played 160, 158, 36, and 133.
While not “plagued” by injury he falls short of demonstrating he can play every day and remain as healthy as he did previously. If history is a guide, and you seem to be indicating that it is as well, his time of playing 159 games each season is behind him but I bet he wants to paid like it isn’t.
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
add the turf to that equation...
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Ask Andre Dawsons knees...
He rejuvenated his career with a move to real grass ,,, and a shorter porch (Wrigley). :)
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Astroturf when Dawson played is FAR different than the turf they play on today. I can’t overstate the “FAR” enough either. I’ve played sports on both and getting tackled on the old Astroturf was like diving into a concrete floor. The new stuff has a much lower impact.
The only reason I like playing soccer on a field over the new turf is those little black things annoy me because they get in everywhere.
Also slide tackling can give you rugburn which isn’t an issue for BBal as you have pants.
That being said the new turf is actually easier on your ankles because its smoother, and there are no divots
I would concede that however....
many a player has sought out the health benefits of natural grass over turf to extend their careers nonetheless. Factor in the seams and cleat catching that comes with turf over grass and injuries are just more pervasive on turf than grass. Tony Fernandez would not have been injured by Bill Madlock in the 87 stretch drive if not for the Dome employing turf over grass. No doubt we have come a long way since Olympic Stadium’s concrete playground but even today they are not the same thing. During a recent Jays broadcast the announcers conceded as much stating that it is greatly improved over days gone by but still causes more injuries than grass (cleat catching, serious turf burn and some time unsafe footing as the dome turf is removable).
I wish we had a grass, baseball only stadium.
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure he wants to be paid like Tulo, Hanley and Jeter (ugh) as one of the best SS’s in baseball. He’s 4th in baseball, even with the injuries, at SS WAR over that time. Interestingly enough, Escobar is 6th, although he’s a ways behind.
I don’t know, honestly, it could turn into flub of a signing or it could be a fantastic signing, and injuries probably play the biggest part of that. That’s why they don’t pay me the big bucks though. :)
Sounds good to me
I’d do it provided that his contract demands (Term and Dollars) aren’t completely outragous. He’s a damn good player and Lawrie – Reyes – Escobar – Lind sounds like a very nice infield set-up with + quality bats
Unless something clicks for Hech with the bat (and that right quick) he ought to repeat AA next year and spend the year thereafter in AAA… if after that he still hasn’t figured out how to get onbase well enough I think we could write him off as the new JMac and use him as a defensive sub/PR. And if he finds his way we’ll have an asset to deal one way or the other.
Personally, I think Hill is done. I also don’t see any reason to think that Hech will even make the majors. And it’s clear that the Jays have to improve their offense. So signing Reyes seems like a good option. However, why would Escobar have to move to 2B? Couldn’t Reyes play 2B?
Don't you t think you should give Hech at least 2 yrs in professional ball before you write him off?
I’m just saying !
by freethinkinged on May 26, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I am also interested in who of the two would actually move to 2nd as I have never seen Reyes play.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
I agree...
most wont make it and few of those that do will make a significant impact but the whole fleeing from cuba and not playing in over a year while waiting for papers thing has to have an impact. And from all the scouting reports his defense is all ready major league caliber so while he may not be an offensive juggernaut, still to be determined, I think he has a very good chance of being at minimum a defense shortstop (all field no hit).
Can't afford an all field no hit shortstop in this division
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I'd rather go out and get a good bat to DH
but I’m not opposed to Reyes he’s not much younger than Escobar though so I’m not sure why we’d do it unless Hill really is done and there aren’t any other options. It’d be sweet to have a lead off switch hitter like Reyes so ya if we’re not breaking the bank I’d be ok with it. I voted don’t know what AA is thinking anymore.
"It's a car wreck that's what it is" - John Lynch
"I couldn't be on defense man, Lynch be hittin' everybody man" - Rod Smith
Is Manny still a type A FA?
one has to air old irrelevant jokes…
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
or why not reyes and a good DH?
realistically, a decent DH will only cost about $8-10 MM on a one year deal (think ortiz, pena, berkman, etc). if we added reyes too, imagine a lineup of:
reyes
escobar
lind
bautista
DH
snider
lawrie
arencibia
davis
solid mix of on base, speed, and power throughout the lineup
why not an elite DH and a mediocre middle infielder?
it’s extremely tough to find elite bats. a 3 WAR middle infielder is quite a bit easier. Reyes is a fine player but DH is a much more pressing need (Hill, even with his faults, shouldn’t have too much trouble posting 2-3 WAR).
we can’t compete with DHs that post -1 WAR over a quarter-season.
a 3 WAR middle infielder is quite a bit easier
There were only 8 3 WAR SS’s last year. (Tulo, Drew, Hanley and Alexi Ramirez, Furcal, Pennington, Alex Gonzalez and Uribe). You could almost make the argument that a 3 WAR SS is elite (at least top 25-30%).
I see
I stand corrected. though, there were also nine >3 WAR 2Bs, and two more over 2 WAR – and that’s out of only sixteen qualifiers. at SS, too, there were 6 more guys that finished over 2 WAR, and a 2-and-change WAR guy (Aaron Hill) wouldn’t be black hole at all
I was more thinking if I had to choose
That lineup would be amazing I would love for that to happen. I still believe in Hill too so maybe that’s another reason I’m not as into wanting Reyes as some people.
"It's a car wreck that's what it is" - John Lynch
"I couldn't be on defense man, Lynch be hittin' everybody man" - Rod Smith
Reyes/Escobar, or
Reyes/Hill up the middle, plus Lind and maybe Lawrie could give the Jays a great infield for years to come.
If Hill performs to his contract this season, could the Jays pick up one of the options and then look for a trade, or trade Escobar? (and sign Reyes, of course!)
by the barnstormers on May 26, 2011 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
for the right price
i think he’s exactly what we need – middle infielder? check. gets on base at an above average rate? check. still relatively young? check.
question is what will it cost? my guess is he gets around 6 years, $108 million ($18 million per year). if you think he’s a 5 win player at the start of the contract and then gradually declines, that’s definitely worth it.
hopefully reyes would be the one playing 2B since escobar is definitely the better defender at this point so should be kept at SS
also, i don’t see why hechavarria would even be a consideration. he can’t even pull of a 600 ops yet in the minors. it’s at best 50% that he even becomes an MLB player, and probably less than 10% that he’s ever as good as reyes (or even escobar for that matter)
Are the Blue Jays planning on bidding for stars in trade?
Does anyone have ESPN Insider? I don’t but I saw an article titled “Are the Blue Jays planning on bidding for stars in trade?” Just curious who they are talking about us trading for.
by Matthew Mueller on May 26, 2011 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
sorry hill,
I`ve been a fan of Aaron Hill since he came up, but unless he is willing to take a big pay cut I don`t see him in the teams future plans. I would love to add Reyes if either he or Escobar are willing to move over to 2nd. Reyes isn`t a $20+ million player, and I would be greatly disturbed if AA were to pay that for 5/6 years (I`m sure he wouldnt). However a deal more like VMart`s 4yr/50 mil would be a solid starting point. (I also know this probably would have to be just that, a starting point)
It would be great to have a real lead off guy, who is a dependable hitter. And not that Hill is a bad fielder, but reyes is very solid with the glove.
My main concern with Hill is health
When he has been healthy this year (i.e. after few games after being activated off the DL), he is putting up a solid ~.800 OPS, with a high LD rate.
don't they
have a raging Papelboner for Lowrie?
by benk on May 26, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fun fact
Our ownership is richer than the Sox and we have less committed salary.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
Just because a team is rich, doesn't mean they spend like one
The jays total revenue last year was only slightly higher than that of TB or CLE, which is embarrasing
Choose me, Ash!
The offseason last year (and I'd say this year)
was pretty much a worst case scenario in terms of attracting people to the ballpark.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
I think it'd be a great idea...
One of the fastest in the league, is he not?
Rajai Davis isn't very good at drawing walks, hitting for power, playing middle infield
or hitting left handed against RHP.
They're not just hitting home runs. They're doing the little things, like hitting doubles.
but he's very good at the clubhouse!!! ;-p
(insert Kevin Millar reference here)
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Ideal situation
C – arencibia
1b – Lind
2b – Escobar
SS – Reyes
3B – lawrie (or hill if he somehow turns it around)
LF – snider (or lawrie if hill goes to 3rd)
CF – we need one!!!
RF – Bautista
DH – Thames
Can Thames play center?
by ddbumpus on May 27, 2011 12:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
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