Eric Thames Recalled
by Tom Dakers on Jun 23, 2011 5:40 PM EDT
in Toronto Blue Jays News
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PrintEric Thames has been called back up from Vegas (yay). Unfortunately Mike McCoy is on his way back to Vegas. I feel sorry for the guy, but I'm happy to see Thames back. I'm hoping they give him LF and leave him there for a month or two.
Thames is having a great year in Vegas, in 53 games he is batting .352 with 25 doubles, four triples, seven home runs and 45 runs batted in. In June he is batting .375 for Las Vegas with eight doubles, two triples, one home run and 15 RBI in 17 games.
I can't even count the number of times McCoy has been up and down to Vegas, I'd take the over on whatever the Vegas oddsmakers have set the over/under number at. I'd have much preferred just to release Nix but that's not the way the Jays wanted to go.
They said they wanted a shake up, I hope this helps. Play the guy in the outfield John,
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For the record
This is the 5th time McCoy has been optioned (and of course he has been recalled 4 times).
I’m glad to see Thames back—he definitely brings the potential for more offence that the Jays really really desperately needs. Despite his closer-type stuff, the Jays don’t really need him as a backup infielder with Johnny Mac back.
It's about time!
I agree, that I’m glad to see Thames back, and I hate to see McCoy go, but I’m sure they will wait until Lawrie is ready before they either DFA Nix or try to send him down – although it is not entirely impossible to see the idea of them doing that with E5 and keeping Nix. Nix is nothing more then a utility back up at this poin tin his career, but he does give more options that niether McCoy or E5 offer – I still believe the guy is hurt or at least his leg injury is in his head – nobody can be that bad, same goes for Hill. Either way its good to see Thames back, kinda curious to see how long until we see Loewen too as he seems to have found his stride
Nix is really a terrible hitter
i dont see the point in keeping him, he’s redundant with McDonald and McCoy
Choose me, Ash!
He is better then he shows
Nix was once a highly touted prospect and if you look at his family trend they seem to be late bloomers – there just seems something not right with Nix – might be what is also wrong with Hill, Encarnancion, Davis, Arencibia etc. which may just be the hitting coach or it could possibly be an injury. He will never be much more then a .250 hitter with mid teens power and an average arm, but that is more power and possibly average then McCoy will ever offer. I would to see them pass him through waivers and work things out in Vegas once Lawrie comes to town
Hopefully we give Edwin another chance at third.
I don’t care if he makes an error every other play, atleast when he steps in the batters box you know that he will usually have a decent AB.
I'm a man, I'm a wonder, your best success is my worst blunder.
by Joseph Kirby on Jun 23, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Redundant also because his defense isn't good either
Although the Butterfield Effect seems to have taken root and he seems to be posting career high numbers defensively (from what I can make out)
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3790&position=2B/3B#fieldingadvanced
Isn't terrible is faint praise
I’m not sure that range was his worst problem on defense. There was one year where he seemed to develop hands of stone or EE-itis from what his fielding % suggests.
Even so, when your wRC+ is only 10 better than Johnny McD’s horrendous 47, you aren’t making much of a case for supplanting him as a utility player, especially when you really can’t play SS either.
it's not terrible
but it’s also not bad, or not poor, it’s actually reasonably good. Nix is a horrible baseball player and should never be a starter (or even really be a Major Leaguer, if you ask me), but his defense is actually pretty good
i would like to see this happen for the NL games
vs RHP
CF: CoPa
LF: Thames
3B: anyone
vs LHP
CF: Rajai
LF: Thames/Rivera
3B: Encarnacion
Choose me, Ash!
Off-topic but here are a couple of links:
1. Today is the anniversary of the Ryne Sandberg game in which he hit game tying HR’s in the 9th and 10th innings.
2. The Expos have the record for worst pitcher’s wpa in a 9 inning win (-1.595)
by JaysSaskatchewan on Jun 23, 2011 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
Can someone explain the logic of
optioning McCoy instead of DFAing Nix? Please, cause I’m really stumped.
If you can't pay em' trade em' and pay for someone else
the only thing I can think of is depth in case of injury.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Jun 23, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
McCoy has options so they don't have to lose a guy to get someone off of the 25-man roster
I guess that’s their justification. I have no idea why they want to keep Nix. Maybe because he hit those homers at the beginning of the season made a great first impression on the front office??
by Minor Leaguer on Jun 23, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Front office = JF in this case
I’m sure that AA is aware of how Nix is doing, but you have to give your manager some leeway on personnel decisions. I’m sure Nix will not stay on this team for the entire year.
Actually, Griffin has some good suggestions: (i) play Bautista at 3B until Lawrie arrives, (ii) play EE at DH, (iii) play Thames in LF.
Happy to have Thames back.
Another left handed batter finally.
who was the last person AA released from the 25 man roster?
he seems to be really attached to the guys he acquires. i can understand not wanting to let guys go for nothing, but in the case of Nix (and arguably others) this is hurting the big league club and holding guys back
Was Randy Ruiz on the 25-man roster when he was released?
by Minor Leaguer on Jun 23, 2011 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Ruiz's contract was purchased by a Japanese team.
I was thinking that EE was the last one (well maybe not technically). He was put on waivers, which if he had cleared he would have been released, but Oakland claimed him and did it (released him) for the Jays.
Sweet
glad to see Thames up again. That makes my line up suggestion actually possible!
"It's a car wreck that's what it is" - John Lynch
"I couldn't be on defense man, Lynch be hittin' everybody man" - Rod Smith
Arden Zwelling, associate MLB reporter is posting it on his twitter.
About as good a confirmation as can be expected.
Sweet
Makes the most sense to me. 3rd is a black hole and RF is easier to fill.
I don’t subscribe to the “Don’t move your superstar” nonsence. Jose seems like a real “Team first” guy and I’m sure he knows this will help spark the offense not having Nix/E5/McCoy/McDonald playing 3rd.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet
Makes the most sense to me. 3rd is a black hole and RF is easier to fill.
I don’t subscribe to the “Don’t move your superstar” nonsence. Jose seems like a real “Team first” guy and I’m sure he knows this will help spark the offense not having Nix/E5/McCoy/McDonald playing 3rd.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as I can see, it's for the near future.
Until Lawrie.
We don’t have any legit players at 3rd. And we’re not about to use E5.
No they shouldn't
He needs a long time with a sports psychologist before he goes out there. Right now it is clear that when he is out there he overpresses and makes errors because of it. Yes EE of last year was a passable defender, arguably even better than JBau, but right now EE isn’t that guy. And he won’t be anytime soon.
he was absolutely passable at 3B last year based on 841.2 innings, approximately 93.5 games
yet, based on 149 innings at 3B this year, approximately 16.5 games, he’s atrocious. I’m not saying he’s gonna be a gold glover, but he can definitely be slighly below average. Paired with that bat, having EE at 3B, Bautista at RF, Thames at LF, and CoPa/Davis at CF is more effective than having Bautista at 3B with CoPa AND Davis playing OF.
Choose me, Ash!
but he can definitely be slighly below average
Reach for the stars!!!!!
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yes he could.
Once he gets his head straight. Sorry not seen a single sign that shows he’s capable of doing that right now.
and how do we know this?
how do we know that he’s not right in the head? do we really know? or are you just making asses our of you and me?
Choose me, Ash!
Because
It is crystal clear he is trying too hard, pressing with his throws and making bad decisions out there on the defensive field. This would be the time to send him to the minors like they did with Snider or Drabek to relearn skills under a lower pressure environment. However due to EE’s eligibility they can’t do that. To send him down they have to send him through waivers. Now maybe he clears that like he did last year, but you don’t reteach someone how to rediscover their defensive mechanics at the expense of their major league fans.
its crystal clear?
he’s been bad. I don’t see how he’s trying too hard or pressing. He’s just been bad.
Choose me, Ash!
Nah
If he was just bad you’d expect it to look more like his career. When your error rate jumps to the level his has this year, its because of something more than just being bad.
except that its unfair to judge his fielding based on just 16 or so games.
hitters go through 16 game slumps all the time. why can’t fielders?
Choose me, Ash!
Eh
Because hitting is again a pitcher trying to get you out, while throwing is mechanics he’s likely practiced every day since he’s been what, 10? I remember when Knoblach lost his arm. Or there have been some catchers who lost the ability to toss it reliably back to the pitcher.
The type of throwing problems EE is going through aren’t just going to be fixed by throwing him out at third every day.
I don't see how you figure he was "passable" last year.
The only players who had more errors than Edwin were Beltre and Young and in almost twice the innings.
Adrian Beltre: 1342 innings – 19 errors.
Michael Young : 1370 innings – 19 errors
Edwin Encarnacion: 841 innings – 18 errors
Beltre was also a 7 WAR hitter, Young 3 WAR, Edwin was 1.
Dude was bad last year, horrible this year.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was passable
Errors don’t always tell the story. A player can only make an error after all if they make it to the ball. Which is where I think EE is better than JBau at 3rd. He has better range and a better glove. The problem is that his arm doesn’t throw balls where he wants them to go.
Why does it matter
Scenario 1: Player hits ball toward him, he doesn’t have the range, player has a single or double
Scenario 2: Player hits ball toward him, he gets to the ball, throws the ball into the TD Comfort zone, and player is standing on 2nd
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
because, unlike you assume, craig
he doesnt throw every single ball into the comfort zone
Choose me, Ash!
WHAT?!
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of them go up the line :)
by JaysSaskatchewan on Jun 23, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well yeah that is the problem with EE
But in general the theory holds true. If the 3b stops the ball getting out of the infield, unless the arm is bad at worst it should be a single. Also it has the advantage of stopping baserunners. Arm is an important part of defense, but most likely the least important. Glovework is more so and range really is king.
It is easier to take someone with no range though than someone with a crappy arm. It looks more pleasing to the eye.
Possible defensive solution
On a ball hit to 3rd:
1. The 2nd baseman or pitcher covers first base.
2. The first baseman sprints to the TD Comfort Zone.
Doable?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Jun 23, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well atleast most of the times it will not go to the outfield because usually he makes an error with his glove and not his arm.
I'm a man, I'm a wonder, your best success is my worst blunder.
by Joseph Kirby on Jun 23, 2011 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Say whaaaaaa?
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I don't actually agree
he’s made some errors with the glove too, but I don’t think that’s his biggest problem at all
his UZR/150 was -2.3
its really a much better statistic than errors, really. Edwin had a 1.5 WAR in about 3/5 the season. extrapolated its about 2.5 WAR. thats decent.
Choose me, Ash!
though there is SSS problem there
he’s probably closer to -5 or -7 runs/150 innings, which is a helluva lot better production than Nix is giving, but still not very good
EE
Can’t field, hit a little… Any taker out there?
by Fanfromnigeria on Jun 23, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not going to work
Because EE of this year is not EE of last year. EE of this year is hugely below average, or how Dave Cameron put it one of the worst defenders ever in baseball. That is the frustrating thing about this. He is a professional athlete, he should be able to focus and get his mind back on the field with him.
EE has no confidence right now in his fielding at third. He presses all the time and lets it negatively affect his hitting. Look at the difference right now between his batting numbers when fielding and when DH’ing. He needs a lot of time to get his head back on straight so he can field decently again. And almost no Jay fan wants to watch that happen on the Roger’s center field. He would be a good candidate for AAA, but because of options/etc he can’t go there. So putting him at DH where his bat does play well is all they can do.
over a fifth of last year's number of games at 3B
maybe we might wanna give him another 75 games at 3B before we decide he’s a completely different player. Apparently he’s a “streaky” hitter too, so he might also be a “streaky” fielder.
Choose me, Ash!
Uh no
Have you watched him out there? He needs a sports psychologist, not to be thrown out there on the fire.
so he's suddenly mentally unstable?
look, it would really help if you had maybe articles or quotes or something that can support that point.
Choose me, Ash!
and I am not saying he has been atrociously bad
he has been atrociously bad. But just like hitters and pitchers regress, fielders regress as well.
Choose me, Ash!
Yes
And guess what, players aren’t supposed to rediscover skills in the majors. Send him through waivers to AAA and let him find the handle on his skills there in a lower stress environment. Same with what they did with Drabek and Snider. Don’t drag your major league fans through the spectacle of EE making an errors a day as he keeps pressing to figure out his throwing motion in the big leagues.
why do we assume that he's lost all ability to field?
its been only 16 games. maybe 20 games if you include 1B. He’s had 5 times as many games last season, and did reasonably well.
Choose me, Ash!
Has EE ever shown the ability to throw accurately?
Not really, but last year was the best of his career for it. And still with all of that, his arm was under par. He’s decent enough with the glove and the range, but I think the chances of his arm becoming 3b ready ever are pretty low. He’s had BB to work with, he just can’t do the job. Move him to DH and move on when this year is done.
we don't have to keep him, im not advocating that.
but what do you think is more effective, EE at 3B with only one of CoPa/Davis in the OF, or Bautista at 3B with BOTH CoPa and Davis in the OF. also realize that Bautista has always been a below average defensive 3B.
Choose me, Ash!
Ugh.
While I’m all for having a better OF defense, I much prefer the offense of the first. I don’t want Davis and Patterson both playing. One of them is black hole enough, I really don’t want both playing together.
exactly.
im just advocating the first for interleague. as soon as its over, and lawrie is up, I don’t really care if EE DH’s or not.
Choose me, Ash!
From Gregor Chisholm on Twitter
#BlueJays Brett Lawrie’s hand not improving as quickly as hoped. Tentative return date would be some time in early August.
If you can't pay em' trade em' and pay for someone else
I heard that there is some clause that if the Dodgers don't make payroll
…all their players automatically become free agents.
Can Matt Kemp play 3rd?
Happiness is a long walk with a putter.
by craig in calgary on Jun 23, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
But as long as Farrell platoons Davis and Patterson to some degree
I much prefer that. Rather have Rivera/Snider/Thames taking LF/RF together and Davis/Patterson sharing center.
And no he's not mentally unstable
Sports players constantly use psychologists to improve their performance. EE’s problem is not physical. He knows the mechanics. His problems are in his head.
He's got the yips
And no fans of the Jays want to see him thrown out there committing tons more throwing errors at 3B. Well a few fans maybe, but certainly not many of the paying ones.
He's a defensive liability.
And he makes the fans hate him. This should be a good move, hypothetically.
I’m gonna miss Jedi’s arm from RF. He was spectacular there.
Could be a while.
AA has said that the hand isn’t healing as fast as they hoped, he sees early august as a possible return date.
As per Shi dividi tweet
Who's Your McDade
New Hampshire Bottom of the 4th
Anthony Gose grounds out to first baseman Matt Curry.
Mike McDade homers (10) on a fly ball to center field.
Moises Sierra strikes out swinging.
Travis d’Arnaud homers (7) on a fly ball to left field.
Ricardo Nanita grounds out to first baseman Matt Curry.
Litsch finished with 3.2 4 0 0 0 3 0 0.00
YUS!!!
I'm a man, I'm a wonder, your best success is my worst blunder.
by Joseph Kirby on Jun 23, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
WHAT!?!?!?
McCoy is needed with the big club for mop-up duty!
Hugo thinks I'm a lazy academic
by bluejaysstatsgeek on Jun 23, 2011 9:58 PM EDT reply actions
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