Where do we go from here?
By now, unless you have been under a rock for the entire day (or at work, I suppose), you know that the AA and the Jays pulled off 2 trades that culminated in the Jays acquiring Colby Rasmus for Jason Frasor, Zach Stewart, Mark Rzepcynski, Octavio Dotel, Corey Patterson, undisclosed amounts of cash, and an agreement to give large sums of money to Mark Teahen for a season and half.
The reaction to the trade was swift and unequivocal. BBBers rejoiced, denizens of Viva El Birdos cromited, and many outside observers loved what the Jays did here. The Cardinals and White Sox got what they wanted (present-day pitching help and salary relief, respectively) but the consensus was that the Jays got the upper hand and that the Cardinals, especially, were fleeced.
Not much I can say that hasn’t already been said here or elsewhere on our favourite series of tubes, but I absolutely love this trade. Love, love, love. That’s all.
But where does this leave the Jays going forward? The Jays currently stand 4th in the AL East, 13 games behind the Red Sox and 11 behind New York for the AL Wild Card. Unless the Sox and Yankees (and the other teams ahead of us in the WC standing) all succumb to 1951 Dodgers-level collapses, the best we can hope for is to battle it out with Tampa for 3rd place in what is, again, the most competitive division in North American professional sports. So let’s, as we’ve become accustomed to for some time, look ahead to the future. If you are interested, follow me past the jump.
Compared to previous look-to-the-future daydreams, the current version of the future looks very bright, brighter than it did after last season and MUCH brighter than just before Alex Anthopolous took office. As Sky Kalkman explained, the Jays currently employ the best player in baseball, have a solid and still forming young core signed to team-friendly contracts, and a farm system that is solidly among the top 5 (probably top 1 or 2) in baseball. None of this was true even 2 years ago, and it is remarkable the transformation that has gone into the team.
I’m no prospects expert, and lots of people here and elsewhere have spoken about the strength of the Jays’ farm system, so we won’t delve into that right now. I think it’s time we started looking a little closer to the present, maybe even next year, and consider what options the Jays might have to bring the ever-elusive “contending year” into view. Given that we just locked up Bautista to a medium term deal, and he’s mashing the ball like no other, now is probably as good a time as any to go for broke.
The first thing to look at when considering options is salary obligations. AA has done a masterful job of shedding payroll and providing room for the Jays to acquire salary either to help facilitate a trade (such as taking on $10M worth of replacement-level Mark Teahen to help land Edwin Jackson, who was then flipped for Rasmus) or for acquiring new players (as we shall see below).
At present, the Jays have the following players under team control for 2012 and 2013. This includes players signed to long term contracts, and players under the team’s control who are either eligible for arbitration or subject to the reserve clause. I have included their 2012 salary (in millions; reserve clause salaries listed as 0.5M) or estimates of likely arbitration awards.
|
|
2012 |
|
2013 |
|
|
Salary |
|
|
|
Bautista |
14 |
|
14 |
|
Rasmus |
3.5 |
|
6 |
|
Snider |
2 |
|
4 |
|
Lawrie |
0.5 |
|
0.5 |
|
Escobar |
5 |
|
5 |
|
Lind |
5.15 |
|
5.15 |
|
EE |
3.5 |
|
0 |
|
Davis |
2.75 |
|
3 |
|
JPA |
0.5 |
|
0.5 |
|
Romero |
5.25 |
|
7.75 |
|
Morrow |
4 |
|
7 |
|
Drabek |
0.5 |
|
0.5 |
|
Litsch |
1 |
|
2 |
|
Cecil |
1.5 |
|
3 |
|
Rauch |
3.75 |
|
0 |
|
Hech |
1.75 |
|
1.75 |
|
Teahen |
5.5 |
|
0 |
|
Thames |
0.5 |
|
0.5 |
|
Molina |
1 |
|
0 |
|
Janssen |
1.5 |
|
0 |
|
McGowan |
0.5 |
|
0 |
|
Villanueva |
2.5 |
|
0 |
|
Totals |
66.15 |
|
60.65 |
This estimated 66 million buys the 2012 Jays an entire roster’s worth of position players aside from 2B (starting lineup plus utility OF, 2 utility IFs – Teahen and EE, and a backup C), 5 starting pitchers, 4 RPs, and Adeiny Hechevarria, who is on a major league contract playing in the minors. For 2013, the obligations are around 60M, since a few guys (Rauch, E5, Teahen) fall off and others get raises through negotiated contracts or arbitration. The 2013 analysis has no salaries for utility players (except for Davis, though the Jays can buy out his $3M salary for 500k, lowering the obligations quoted above to under $60M) or relievers. These together would probably cost <$10M. $0 means the player is a free agent before the 2013 season
For additional savings, we could also buy out the 2012 options of Rauch and/or E5 and go with cheaper options, such as guys currently in AAA. But for the sake of argument, I’m assuming that the Jays exercise those options.
By comparison, the Jays’ 2011 salary is about $70 million, but it was as high as $97M in 2008. Rogers has also been quoted as saying that the team/market could support a payroll of over $100M, even going as high as $140M when the team was ready to compete and conditions were right.
So, setting aside AA’s trade machinations, which are as impossible to predict as they are awesome, let’s check out some free agent options that might improve the team in the medium-term future, shall we?
A problem position for the Jays this year has been DH. Juan Rivera and Edwin Encarnacion haven’t really done well this year, though EE has picked it up a bit of late. Eric Thames has also hit well since being called up. The salary considerations listed above includes both Thames and E5, who could combine to form a solid platoon DH. However, there are a couple of marquee power bats on the free agent market whose production is likely to blow away even what those guys could do in tandem – Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder. I think Pujols will resign with the Cardinals, leaving Fielder as the prize catch. Pretty much whatever I say can apply to Pujols just as well as to Fielder.
Much has been discussed in various threads about whether the Jays should acquire Fielder. He has put up 25 offensive WAR in just under 6 major league seasons, including what he loses in baserunning. He will be 28 year old next year, so he’s just in his prime now. He’s a butcher on the basepaths and in the field, but as a DH the latter is not a problem. And even with his lack of footspeed, from 2007 to 2010 (i.e. discounting his rookie season and the current uncompleted one), he has averaged over 4.5 oWAR at 1B, which translates to about 4WAR as a DH. Even at this average (much of which was compiled before his prime), this is a huge upgrade over what the Jays currently have and Fielder could very well be even better over the next 4-5 seasons. Again, he is just entering his prime, and DHing full time should reduce the wear and tear his body will sustain. Given that he can’t play a position well at all and hasn’t quite been as insanely ridiculous over his career as Pujols, I figure he’ll be cheaper than Pujols. Adam Dunn, another good-hit, terrible-field slugger, signed for 4/56 (14M/yr) this offseason, but Dunn is quite a bit older, so Fielder should beat that somewhat. Let’s say he gets 5-6 years at about $18M per year.
My personal opinion, however, is that the Yankees will make Fielder a godfather offer and he’ll sign with them. The Yanks are suffering through a second-place season (the horror!) and have a big hole at DH, so Fielder seems a great way for them to plug yet more elite talent into their lineup.
So what else could the Jays do?
Probably the most glaring hole the Blue Jays have going into 2012 is at 2B. Aaron Hill has, to put it simply, stunk the past 2 seasons. He is under replacement level to date this year. He has a strangely structured contract requiring the Jays to pick up 2 options simultaneously at $8M per year (for 2012 and 2013) after this offseason, or allow him to become a free agent. I would be very surprised if the Jays pick up his options or offer him arbitration, though I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to trying to resign him at a much reduced price. Adeiny Hechevarria is down on the farm, but his bat probably isn’t good enough yet for him to make the bigs. If the Jays want to fill that hole on the cheap, he could do it (since his defense is apparently something to behold), but we are being profligate spenders here, so let’s dream a little.
So how can this hole be filled? Looking at Cot’s Contracts’ list of soon-to-be FA second basemen, one option that catches my eye immediately is Kelly Johnson of the Diamondbacks. He is coming off a bit of a down year, but has still put up 1.9 WAR so far this year (on pace for a 2.5-3WAR season). In 2010, he put up almost 6WAR, so he has upside.
In many ways, Johnson is what we all thought Aaron Hill should have been - a second baseman with pop. He’s a career .263 hitter (Hill .266), but he actually walks (.346 career OBA) whereas Hill doesn’t (.320 career). As well, Johnson has maintained his power numbers of late: His 2009-2011 ISO’s are .165(injury)/.212/.222 while Hill’s are .213/.189/.095. This year, Johnson is batting 224/307/447, but a lot of that is probably attributable to a .271 BABIP (.312 career). He’s a tick above average defensively for his career, too. In all, I think he comes out looking pretty good - his career averages put him at 3-4WAR for a full season and he has 5-6WAR upside. Dan Uggla, another 2B, signed this past offseason with Atlanta for 5/62. Uggla had the better track record, so I see Johnson getting a bit less than than, maybe 4/44.
If the two above scenarios come to pass, that would probably cost the Jays about an extra $30M per season, putting them just below the $100M salary mark for 2012 with only a couple RPs left to be acquired. Basically, the team could add Fielder and Johnson while paying only slightly more than the 2008 team (probably about the same accounting for inflation).
But the dreamer in me thinks Rogers has deeper pockets than that. What if they were willing to go up to $110M in salary – what could that get us. Dare I say it, but we could probably acquire Fielder and Jose Reyes, the remaining member of this year FA triumvirate. Reyes is currently in his age 29 season and has already put up 5.8WAR (~9WAR pace). From 2006-2010 and discounting his injured 2009, he has averaged over 5WAR. He did have a down year in 2010 (2.8WAR) but seems to have bounced back very nicely this year.
Acquiring Reyes would create a logjam at SS with him and Escobar. However, 2B is often referred to as the position for guys who can’t make it at SS, so guys who can make it there should be able to man the position well. Reyes has also played some 2B before, when the Mets acquired Kaz Matsui, so he has some experience. However, I doubt Reyes would sign with the Jays if they told him he wouldn’t be playing SS. So I think Escobar would be the man to move if Reyes was acquired.
So what would it take to get Fielder AND Reyes? Jayson Werth was last year’s marquee FA, and he got 7/126. Reyes will probably get more than that, I think, so let’s give him around 7/140, or $20M per season. He and Fielder would thus add around $38M to the Jays payroll obligations. For 2012, that would put them at $104M minus E5 for $101M. Between the minors and FA relievers, we could probably grab 3 RPs for $4M, putting the payroll around $105M, which is very doable if Rogers' previous comments are to be believed.
I personally like the Fielder/Johnson option, since it maintains a level of payroll flexibility going forward, even while substantially upgrading the present. I think that adding Fielder, Johnson, Rasmus, and Lawrie could improve the team at least 12 wins above this season (3 win bump from each over who they replaced). With some experience/improvement from starters like Cecil, Litsch, and Drabek and no more JoJo, etc, the 2012 Jays could very well be looking at 95+ wins.
I haven’t gone through the list of potential 2013 FAs, nor have I exhausted the possibilities for 2012. Of course, AA spends a lot more time looking at these things than I do (and is a lot smarter than me to boot), so he’s definitely come up with plans/combinations that I haven’t even fathomed. But my point is that the payroll flexibility that AA has developed, combined with the multitude of team-friendly contracts, cost-effective talent the Jays have acquired, and Rogers’ potential piles of money makes the Jays huge players even for marquee FAs in the years to come. As current arbitration-eligible players get too expensive, the wealth of farm talent, especially those players now in the low minors, will be ready to step in at that point and take over. So not only do the Jays have room to make plays for big name FAs, they have the talent to make it sustainable. This is what AA said he would set out to do when he took the Jays’ job, and in my opinion, he has accomplished that.
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great breakdown of the team's situation going forward
essentially the only holes on the roster going forward are 2B, DH, SP (essentially have Romero, Morrow and then a bunch of guys with various amounts of potential), and the bullpen.
bullpen is easy to fill, with cheap signings and guys that weren’t quite good enough to make the rotation.
the other three are obviously the interesting ones (and you broke them down pretty well). i’m just going to add a few points that i think are worth thinking about:
2B: I think there’s a very good chance we sign Johnson, as it seems like the Jays have been trying to get him for the past few years. I think Reyes is a pipedream as it’s highly likely he re-signs with the Mets, but if not I think that would be a great fit as well, even if it took as large a contract as you suggest. Another possible alternative that might be possible is trading for Hanley (and then moving him to 2B). If the Marlins really decide they want to move him, I think we match up well with them. Hanley has 3 years @$15M per left on his contract, and even if he doesn’t return to his form from a couple years ago, he’s still an above average player.
DH: I can’t see the Jays getting Fielder because I don’t think AA would be willing to give him the type of contract he’s going to be looking for. I think we’d definitely make a run at Pujols if he doesn’t resign with St. Louis, but that’s more of a pipedream than a realistic target. I think it’s by far most likely that we go with some combo of Thames/Cooper/Encarnacion there and save the money for other spots.
SP: there aren’t really any good FA options here, but there are some intruiging trade options. Ubaldo and Shields seem to be available for the right price, and with our depth of young pitchers with upside and our stacked farm system we could definitely put together a package to land them. I think this team really needs one more elite level starter to take that next step, and I think a trade is the only way it will happen.
Thames/Cooper vs righties and EE vs lefties
I think would be a fine DH, but I’d be disappointed if, if we don’t get Fielder/Pujols, we don’t go after anyone like Kelly/Hanley/Reyes
WAR... WAR never changes.
SP
CJ Wilson & Edwin Jackson are viable options i think
you mean former Jay Edwin Jackson
I’d love to get Wilson, but I feel like Jackson is going to be overvalued. he’s a fine enough pitcher, but I think he’s going to get paid too much
WAR... WAR never changes.
If we could get Jackson next year that would be awesome..
Hes had a pretty good year this season with Chicago and that could definately improve with St.Louis, he could be a great option next year for 4-5 starter if we don’t have anyone to fill that void.
"If you are not sure, ask yourself, "What would Ted do?" Then do the opposite."
- Barney Stinson
I do occasionally go on Youtube...
by Joseph Kirby on Jul 27, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's going to get paid a bunch
not entirely sure why, I just do. I think Villanueva, should he somehow keep up his good pitching, would be a fine 5th starter (presuming Drabek learns how to pitch, which I’m confident he will), even if his HR/FB rate goes back to normal
WAR... WAR never changes.
I also think he is going to get a big contract
more than we’ll want to spend on a 4th starter, and probably as much as other, better pitchers will get.
Guys with electric arms (e.g. Burnett) are always going to attract interest, even if they aren’t all that good (e.g. Burnett)
I think he might be more of a 2-3 starter in our current rotation...
He has abetter track-record than Cecil and way better than Drabek. I’m not sure how he compares to Morrow.
Still, he’s probably due to get overpayed. I’ll pass.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
I don't understand Jackson
Disclaimer, i had him on my fantasy team, and you just didn’t know what he was going to do. I know he has a high ceiling (although it is gradually lowering), but the guy is hardly consistent. He would get shelling in the AL bEast anyways.
I'd be ok with going after Wilson
but I think that we can put together a decent enough home-grown staff that will free up money to go after marquee position players, who are really the prizes in this year’s FA crop.
3 RP's for 4 million??
What about our closer situation??
exactly
bring up Mills, Carlson, Viciedo, other guys I don’t know about. They would cost about 900k combined. I’m sure we can find another Rauch/Frasor/Dotel for ~$3M.
You are right that $4M might be a bit on the low end, but 5-6M probably isn’t unreasonable.
clarification
900k if you called up any 2 of them.
LEO NUNEZ!!
.
.
Sarcasm font isn’t really necessary because I think that would be awesome if it happened but still, you get what I’m saying..
"If you are not sure, ask yourself, "What would Ted do?" Then do the opposite."
- Barney Stinson
I do occasionally go on Youtube...
by Joseph Kirby on Jul 28, 2011 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd be happy with just Kelly Johnson
Though I do have this feeling Hill is going to rebound. Just perhaps not with the Jays. He’s still one of my favorites though, I’ll be sad if he goes.
i don't mind keeping hill, really, if he's willing to resign for cheap
now that we have above average offensive players on almost every position, and almost no defence at all. his defence is still amazing.
COLBY RASMUS
not according to fangraphs
since 2008, he has actually been very slightly below average (-2RAR over those 4 years combined). I think that agrees with my eye-test as well. He can still get to a good number of balls, but not like he used to and he has butchered a good number of routine plays that I can remember (I know, recall bias, but still).
I’d be fine if he resigned on the cheap, but I’d still rather acquire a 3-4 WAR 2B if we can get him on a reasonable contract than go to battle with a probably-replacement-level Aaron Hill
maybe.
but DRS is absolutely crazy about Hill, saying he’s +2 runs this year, +9 last, and +76 (!) for his career. true talent is probably in between (which is where TZR lies) but I don’t think he’s been anything worse than slightly above average.
that said, he can’t hit enough to be a starter. Kelly is probably a better defender and has the potential to actually hit baseballs
WAR... WAR never changes.
his ADR, average of all the defensive metrics, is +45 for his career
-2, 8, and 5 for his last 3 season. Thats pretty damn good.
COLBY RASMUS
Fielder
I don’t think he’ll get a salary anywhere near that of Dunn’s, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him get what Teixera got a few years ago.
Dunn is turning into a very sad story this year...
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Should be a warning not to overpay for a de-facto DH
Not that I think that Fielder (let alone Pujols) is due such a decline. but, I’d still rather the cheap/young platoon.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Dunn is four years older than Fielder, though
it’s possible he’s physically declining already. I very much doubt Fielder will decline nearly as quickly as Dunn seems to have (though I think he’ll have a rebound campaign in 2012) and as Pujols potentially could (but won’t)
WAR... WAR never changes.
both of you (benk and pikachu) are very right
I don’t think Dunn is comparable to either Fielder or Pujols. It’s just that I hear his name around here quite often in connection with “our need in DH”. If what we’ll get is anything comparable to Dunn (Aging, “professional hitter”, that is), I’d rather have the young (ish) platoon.
Exception: I might like to see Mat Stairs. Not in an everyday job, probably, but he’s such a winner…
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
I can't help but feel bad for the guy. Seems like a nice dude
Dunn’s take on his slump, gotta admire his courage: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_adam_dunn_slump_quitting_072011
must put any money into starting pitching
by icedbecker2007 on Jul 28, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Who do you have in mind?
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Yu Darvish?
Put that $50 mil for Fielder towards getting an Ace, then add $80 mil. and get Dravish -win the WS.
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 1, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah I see, it is okay if he works out. $130M can get you a lot more in Latin America I reckon. I’d be excited though.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Aug 1, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yu has signed an agent so...
it could mean he’s coming over for 2012.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/yu-darvish-represented-by-arn-tellem-don-nomura.html
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 1, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol someone on MLBTR commented and said they wanted him to sign with Boston...
I wouldn’t think any Boston fans would want to sign a highly touted Japanese pitcher after what happened to Dice-K.
Colby Rasmus is pretty good at baseball..
I don't care where they end up,
just don’t want the FO to invest in a Japanese pitcher, after the Dice-K fiasco.
They’re very pricy and very risky investments.
But maybe that knowledge will bring down the market for Darvish
and scare off a few bigger clubs like Boston.
I bet AA takes a trip to Japan in the off season.
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 2, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
he's going over $100 M IMO
and japanese players, especially pitchers, are huge red flags. do not want.
COLBY RASMUS
I'll trust whatever AA decides to do in this case.
If he goes after him then Darvish is the real deal and a true ‘ace’ worth the money.
When was the last time you saw a 6’ 5" Japanese pitcher that throws in the mid 90’s? I wants.
Put an Ace in front of this staff combined with this offense (a year older) + Lawrie and the Jays are in the mix to WIN the East.
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 2, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
how do you know this guy is going to be an ace
I hate to draw the comparison because they’re obviously not the same, but Dice-K was supposed to utterly dominate the MLB. he had one good season
WAR... WAR never changes.
I don't know but AA and his scouting staff will have a pretty good idea.
With all the hype and marketability of a huge Japanese star the Blue Jays would make this money back even with just an okay season by Darvish.
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 2, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not joking. Think of the market it would open up.
You would see a ton of Japanese branding in the dome over night. The Asian Networks would cover all home games that excitement would fill the dome and sell merch like crazy= $$$.
I’ll buy one of those uni’s if they sign him.
Darvish is half Persian btw he has Xerxes blood in him!
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 2, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
its just not a good investment
pitchers in the NPB don’t have a good track record of success in the MLB, and seeing as how Darvish will commend a hell a lot more than Matsuzaka, its too risky. Obviously if he keeps up his NPB numbers here it would be awesome, but if he doesn’t, we just burned $150 M on a Dice-K.
COLBY RASMUS
I think everyone knows the risks.
I’m putting my faith in AA and his scouts ability to assess talent.
We will see.
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 2, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Darvish is half Persian...
…so the Persian community on the GTA would love it as well.
I watched Darvish pitch during the WBC. I was mezmorized by his stuff.
Hugo thinks I'm a lazy academic
by bluejaysstatsgeek on Aug 2, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Need to stay away from Heath Bell, too expensive.
Getting someone like Huston Street for the back of the pen could be interesting though, and much cheaper. Don’t see many options coming from the Jays minor league system at the moment – unless there is something to Bobby Korecky, the closer in AA – so they’ll need someone for next season.
by transmogrifier on Jul 28, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions
Janssen would probably be fine
or another converted 8th inning guy we can get via FA in the Rauch/Dotel mode. If McGowan can pitch next year, he might be worth a look too
I don’t get how no matter how many times its said that McGowan has to be starting that people keep trying to make him the closer…
no closer in the system
I’d love to see McGowan close
McGowan might be less prone to injury relieving
power arm, probably good in relief
I’m so sick of it oh my god.
WAR... WAR never changes.
sick of what (OMG), benk?
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
People using those excuses as why they think McGowan should close.
In order, the team develops all pitchers who might be worth something as starters and will convert to RP later if needed.
The team doctors have said time and time again his arm will respond better to a set routine of pitching every 5 days and not inconsistantly from the ’pen.
Power arms are also very good starters (see Morrow, Brandon) and McGowan has some very good secondary pitches, at least he did pre-injuries.
Johnson would be cool, but...
I think the Jays will hold their nose and stick with Hill. They will do so because they would be more interested in a good reliable SP. Right now, RR Cool Jay is the only SP they have that is somewhat reliable. Morrow could be, but he seems to have problems starting a year. Beyond that, the Jays are relying on young or unproven SP. Carlos has been great but you have to wonder whether he can do it a second year in a row. He might but he might not. Cecil might have had his 2nd year hiccup or he might just be that fringe starter. The 5th starter could be any number of young or youngish pitchers.
I think the Jays will be going after a guy like Edwin Jackson (though probably not actually Edwin Jackson). That is, a veteran guy who puts up decent numbers and who can take some of the pressure off the other young starters.
I think if you can get Johnson for a reasonable contract, you go for it. If not, I’m fine with keeping Hill on the cheap and seeing what Hech does early in the season. If the bat has come around, you move Escobar over to second and bring him up as your SS.
For me, the only big FA I think would make a great fit here is Reyes. But his injury history and likely price tag scare the hell out of me. I really think Fielder is going to be going head to head with the Yankees on price, and he’ll end up way too expensive for too long a contract.
Personally, I think we need pitching most. One or two guys who can pitch consistantly as a solid 3-4 starter, and a couple of solid bullpen arms. Assuming the core develops like we hope, we’ll have a solid offensive outfield, same for the infield, if Hill comes back, and solid catching. Romeo is our legit ace, I think Morrow is that number 2, and that one of either Cecil, Litsch or Drabek is going to be able to hold down a slot for the year.
question to all of you, Blue Jay Knowledgables
What’s AA’s record with free agent signings? Everybody knows he’s the TradeMeister, but how about his FA record?
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
hasn't done much, really
his biggest signing was probably Jon Rauch… who I guess hasn’t turned out great but he’s only really singed role players
WAR... WAR never changes.
gonzalez – cheap for one year plus an option, turned him into escobar
dotel – cheap for one year, part of the rasmus trade
rauch – cheap for one year (plus an option?), hasn’t really done much
molina – cheap backup catcher for a couple years, has been solid in that role
has AA even signed anyone else to a major league contract? i feel like i have to be forgetting someone
Thanks, y'all. I knew I can count on you for a knowledgable answer.
I must say that if, and when, AA makes his first big splash in the FA market, that must be something to blow your mind with…
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Why can’t we just continue fleecing teams out of their young controllable players? We’ve filled shortstop and CF; AA has 8 months to get someone to ‘give’ us a second baseman.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Jul 31, 2011 9:59 PM EDT reply actions
I just found out yesterday about the Rasmus trade btw. I was without internet availability for 6 days in Mongolia. I went to the BBB site and saw Rasmus in one of the posts. I was a bit afraid to find out who we traded and then awed and confused by the trade. Sort of like Vernon Wells II.
by JaysSaskatchewan on Jul 31, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry, I was awed and confused also...my mind is totally clear now though.
Colby Rasmus is pretty good at baseball..
almost like "sleepless in Seattle" - "Awed and Confused in Mongolia" ;-p
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Yes something like that. Also, “Where’s the beef?”
by JaysSaskatchewan on Aug 1, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean don’t we have to give up something more tangible to get Rasmus?
by JaysSaskatchewan on Aug 1, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
It seems like it was similar to the Escobar deal in a sense. A combination of the player wanting to get the hell out of their respective city, and the team wanting to take whatever they could get.
Moreover, remember the Jays first swung a sweet deal for Edwin Jackson, which enabled them to get Rasmus. That’s the main chip right there. I don’t know why St Louis traded through the Jays to get him, but that is really what got the ball rolling.
are there any 2B`s out there
with some past success and good upside whose team has turned their back on, either because of ``attitude`` issues, a single down year, or both?
I'm Aaron [expletive deleted] Hill
and I’m the best hitter in baseball! Jesus H. Christ himself couldn’t get me out!
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
not sure Beckham counts
Escobar and Rasmus both had had very successful seasons prior to being acquired by the Jays, then they fell somewhat and fell out of favour with their teams. That is, there was a reasonable track record of MLB success to go along with their perceived talent.
I guess a 2.6WAR season with a 107 wRC+ (what Beckham put up his first year) is better than what Hill is doing this year, but I’m sure we can do better than a guy who has ~80 wRC+ the past 2 years.
~80 wRC+ the past two years + way worse defence than Aaron Hill
equals worse than Aaron Hill
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
1 year 3-4 million with a club option maybe
I would still rather have the draft pick and trade for Weeks (Oakland)

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