Yunel Escobar hits a 3 run HR but it's not enough as the Jays fall to Royals 6-4
by JohnnyG on Aug 23, 2011 11:21 PM EDT
in Toronto Blue Jays Game Recaps
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Things didn't go well. Morrow didn't make it through 5 innings and it seemed everything that the royals hit was fairly hard. By the times the Jays got around to starting up the offense we were already looking up at a scoreboard that said 6-0 Royals. Never a good way to start a game.
As mentioned Morrow wasn't really good his final line read as 4.2IP 11Hs BB 5Ks with 6ERs, as mentioned the Royals just seemed to have his number tonight and with a power pitcher like Morrow this can happen from time to time. When a team lines up your fastball you could be in some trouble if you don't have pinpoint control going at that time. On the opposing side of hte ledger, Chen was definately pitching well enough to get the win, he ended up pitching into the 8th with only 4 hits against with only 1BB, he struck out 9. Joakim Soria came out for the ninth for Royals and ended up giving up a run on 2 hits around 2Ks, but with a 3run lead he had some extra breathing room.
In the ninth Farrell pulled what seemed like an insane move at the time, he pulled Colby Rasmus for Mark Teahen pinch hitting in the ninth with a runner one. Mark Teahen represented the tying run. Obviously a lot of people in the game thread went a little crazy because this is about as crazy a move as we have seen. Turns out there was a good reason, earlier in the game Colby jammed his wrist catching a ball, hopefully he is ok as we are still waiting for reinforcements from the minors and are playing with a short bench.
On the offensive side of things, Escobar looked good and probably quite happy to be back home after a bad road trip, he had two hits including a 3 run HR, Thames, Lind, McCoy and Molina each had a hit apiece and McCoy drew a walk. Lind drove in the other run that came across in the ninth against Soria. Bautista did not have a good night at the plate finishing with 3Ks including one in the ninth.
Jays of the day: NONE -- Suckage: Morrow (-.267) Encarnacion (.105). Because the game got out of reach fairly early the rest of the leverage was low for the rest of the game and pretty much negated anyone else picking up or losing WPA.
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If Mark Teahen is the first person off your bench
Your bench isn’t good enough.
"He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man" - Bill Shakespeare
by craig in calgary on Aug 23, 2011 11:23 PM EDT reply actions
true.
you have to keep in mind that the bench was short j mac and mccoy because of the trade. its not saying much bit generally teahen would be the 2nd or 3rd option.
Another thing, how is yunel not the jay of day? not a good day for the team, but a 3 run homer is always nice.
by ddbumpus on Aug 23, 2011 11:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Younel was close (+.080) but he lost a bunch grounding out to end the 8th with McCoy at 2nd
@BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 23, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't he also broke up the no-hitter?
That should count for sth.
Overall another not so good offensive game
thats 4 in a roll, this one is alittle better but it was mostly because of Yunel’s hr. Still alot of swing and miss, many strikeouts and popup. Once again the fastball is blowing by the hitters and out in front of the offspeed
Total Internet Points: 179001 (1st win in a bet in like 10 years)
New Official Internet Points Bank Owner (Unlike Kirby the scam)
apparently rasmus jammed his wrist
thats why teahen pinched hit. and mastoriani left the game in vegas, don’t know if this has anything to do with rasmus injury
by Chris McCullough on Aug 23, 2011 11:39 PM EDT reply actions
Yep, it says that.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
For his MLB debut, I was pretty impressed with the kid’s cool.
I bought some batteries, but they weren't included.
.
by Rather Bengt on Aug 24, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm a bit late with this
But could you guys do a Braves fan a favor, and tell your GM to stop acquiring guys I wish we had never gotten rid of? Thanks.
I hope we never trade with you guys again….unless you guys want to give us Yunel Escobar back? Please?
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
by Bronn on Aug 23, 2011 11:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Who do you want to send to the Jays for Yunel?
@BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 23, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose you're going to tell me no take-backs?
Lol.
Seriously, that trade was SO stupid from our perspective. And then he goes and signs a deal below market value that keeps him in Toronto for the next four seasons.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
We like our Yunel! Back off!
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Amusing we pick up the options, LOL
It’s fun having AA as your GM
Do you have a young, talented cost controlled player having a down year who's "attitude" has cased problems with an aging player or manager?
Don't worry, I Alex Anthopoulos will take him off your hands, I'll even give you some moderately useful veterans that will "help you make a playoff run".
Assuming, yes
But, unless Escobar DIES, there really seems to be no reason not to.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Eh
Mostly it’s BABIP issues. I’m worried about his BB rate dropping slightly, since we have a new hitting instructor who wants all our batters to be #aggressive!, but I think that will bounce back up slightly. His power is still there, and he can still drive the ball well. His swing was a bit messed up, though, to the point that anything on the outer half he was pulling into the ground toward second.
Chipper Jones has been working with Jason some, and he’s only authority I’m really prepared to listen to there. He says that Heyward needs more than one swing-in that, he needs to be able to perhaps get fooled on a breaking ball, and then be able to sweep his hand through the zone and push the ball to center or the opposite field.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I clearly remember Escobar being booed the heck out of Atlanta
By team mates, fans, management, even the street dogs were howling. Everyone was making fun of Toronto for how stupid we were for taking him. Fans, management, team mates, even the cats were mewwing.
I look at it like we saved him before someone assassinated him or something.
Now you want him back?
people who know what they're talking about
thought it was a horrible trade
Total Internet points: 10 000
Yeah, this
There was a large contingent who were booing immediately following the trade.
Having a guy who’s underperforming? That’s a good reason to trade someone. Batting .238 for half a season after having been productive for years is not a good reason.
As for the attitude issues, a lot of fans are getting with tired with Alex Gonzalez yelling and slamming his bat down all the time instead of running out groundballs and pop-ups. So I guess we didn’t really upgrade the attitude situation all that much, and instead added a guy who just recently managed to draw more BBs than double plays he’s hit into.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
it's almost as if
players who aren’t performing well immediately have attitude problems
Total Internet points: 10 000
That only applies
if they have every performed well in the past. Otherwise, they are just gritty.
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Aug 24, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
thats like assuming every jays fan is an idiot
after listening to JaysTalk
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
/tents fingers
Excellent…..
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
we'll give you escobar back
we only want a bench player back. who was that guy again… oh yeah, heyward.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
McCann too. He's no good
A day that will live in infamy: August 4th, 2011
7 pissed off members of the Aaron Hill fanclub
I imagine
A 3-way trade:
Toronto gets Morrison and Heyward
Atlanta gets Snider and Tallet
Florida gets Ledizma, Michael Dunn and Mike Minor
Syndergaard>Clemons
You're imagination
Is nowhere close to reality,
by JayTeam on Aug 24, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah...That's become another joke
Heck, once it became clear he had actually LOST his starting job to Jose Constanza, there were comments on the Braves blog, “Please don’t trade him to Toronto….please.”
I’m still waiting for the news that you’ve acquired Logan Morrison for Wil Ledezmo and a PTBNL
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
by Bronn on Aug 24, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sick of hearing Buck Martinez
I’m especially sick of hearing him inform us the opposing pitcher has tied his career high in strikeouts. Even more so when the pitcher has been in the majors since the last century. Lord we’ve been whiffing a lot.
by JayTeam on Aug 24, 2011 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm sick of this team's bats going in the tank
Oh, KC got 16 hits. Jays need a week for that.
oh good
we’re back to the “forgetting we’re in the top 20% of offense” after every loss again
Total Internet points: 10 000
It was one game, people need to calm themselves
There’s always going to be a few games where the offence goes in the tank. Even the Yanks and Red Sox get shut down sometimes.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
It just hurts more when it's Bruce Chen shutting them down
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
Did you streak?
A day that will live in infamy: August 4th, 2011
7 pissed off members of the Aaron Hill fanclub
duh
only stupids don’t streak, get fined/arrested and banned for life from the RogCen, and make everyone else wait 10 minutes to continue the game
Total Internet points: 10 000
And you get to spend a night with a guy named Bubba!
@BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 24, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
You were there and you didn't come by and say hi? :-(
@BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 24, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Who set the offense to suck?
And what the heck is Morrow doing? His BABIP doesn’t seem that unlucky if almost every flyball is hit hard.
its so strange
last year he gave up 136 hits, 42 2B, 1 3B, and 11 HR
this year, he’s given up 126 hits, 27 2B, 4 3B, and 12 HR, while improving his overall peripherals along the way, yet he’s giving up more runs. He’s an enigma.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Baseball's a strange game
I don’t worry so much if the underlying peripherals are great. It means he will have a great season to match one day.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
line drive rate is not controllable
in all likelihood, he’s getting screwed by sequencing. there’s nothing I’ve been able to find (not that that means there isn’t anything there) that would indicate he “deserves” the bad luck
Total Internet points: 10 000
I agree with this
It’s probably just bad luck.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
When Morrow has runners on
His GB% drops and his FB% rises, a bit last year and a lot this year. This suggests to me he has trouble keeping the ball down when pitching out of the stretch. And if he’s unlucky, that combo will get him pounded. But that bad luck is a byproduct of his own failure to pitch effectively with runners on base.
He's faced 540 batters with men on base the past 2 yrs
How large does the sample size have to be?
I dunno
the larger a sample gets, the more uncertainty due to randomness/“luck” you can discount. you can never discount randomness fully no matter how big the sample.
if Morrow leaves pitches up with men on base (I’m not saying he does or doesn’t, because I don’t know), is that reflected in pFX data?
Total Internet points: 10 000
Morrow is also throwing his curveball and changeup less this season, which may explain some of his struggles this year
He’s gone from throwing the CB 12.2% of the time in 2010 to 3.9% in 2011. The changeup has gone from 14.1% in 2010 to 5.7% in 2011.
It has to be easier for hitters if they know Morrow is primarily throwing FB/Slider. They can sit on one pitch and hopefully drive it when they see it. Of course his FB/SL combo is still pretty filthy so that’s not easy to do. It’s just easier to do when you don’t have to worry about a curveball or changeup as well.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
interesting, I didn't know that
maybe he should throw his curve more? maybe he’s trying to work in a different third pitch?
Total Internet points: 10 000
I'm most surprised by the drop in changeup usage
Considering it seems to be a pitch the Jays really like their pitchers to have. I think Morrow would be less hittable if he used a 3rd pitch more (CB or CH) just to throw the hitters off balance.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
high BABIP =! hittable
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Correct!
Because Morrow has been having trouble keeping the ball down with men on base, his BABIP rises dramatically with men on base.
a high BABIP does not mean he's been more hittable
particularly because you haven’t demonstrated that he is even leaving the ball “up” at all
Total Internet points: 10 000
where is pFX data
That splits between runners on and no one on?
It does exist
MLB teams pay for that data.
However, it is unavailable to the average fan, so proving my point to your satisfaction is impossible.
However, using data that IS available does lend credence to my belief Morrow is having trouble keeping the ball down in the stretch..
just because you don't know where to find it
doesn’t mean it doesnt exist, particularly because Pikachu regularly posts aggregate pFX charts
Total Internet points: 10 000
texas leaguers
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
The less types of pitches a batter has to think about, the better chance he has to look for one type of pitch
This should lead to an increase in hits for a batter. It’s all about having a plan at the plate. Morrow, by only throwing two pitches, makes it easier for hitters to develop a plan against him.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
yet he's absolutely dominating with nobody on
i just think its a delivery/mechanical problem with the stretch
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
How convinced are you that Jeremy Hellickson should have a .235 babip?
because he’s faced 586 batters this season.
How about Madison Bumgarner’s being .335? Because he’s faced 665.
babip is highly variable. Of course, fb- and gb-rates are less variable than babip, which I do know was kind of the point.
However, while his fb- and gb-rates change, his k- and bb-rates are just as good with men on as they are with the bases empty. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not a sample size issue after all.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Prospect Rankings
Are there any updated prospect rankings that have been done in recent weeks? Or do we have to wait until the off-season? I would love to hear from someone inside the organization on the view of our prospects. How impressed is our brass with the year d’Arnauld has had, or Gose, or Marisnick and Knecht? Also I would really like to see the organizations view of how they rank and compare Carreno, Drabek, Alvarez, Molina, Hutchison, McGuire, Jenkins, Wojo, Syndegard, Nicolino, Taylor, Sanchez, Norris, and Comer. It seems that most of these guys had very good years pitching in their age bracket or better. What is the ETA on each of these guys? Do you risk pitching any of these guys at AAA Las Vegas next year in the PCL? Or do you keep them in NH and promote from there? How much stock do you put in Nicolino’s performance at the lower levels of the system? Anyways I am just wondering if there is an updated report on this and if not would love to see one.
it'll be done probably right after the WS
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Yes
We need some good fresh topics during that long dead time between the WS and the start of spring training.
I know there’s some news that happens all the time, but not really enough to really sustain anything.
This made me sad^
What the hell do we do over the winter? For the love of God do not say watch hockey.
I guess there will be Winter Meeting deals and FA signings to blog aboot.
Thisrighthere!
twitter.com/#!/TFSML
by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Aug 24, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
School.
Although, from a recently watched video, what I study this year won’t apply in my last year. Which seems weak.
Once over the hill, you pick up speed.
there are some on minorleagueball in the fanposts
if you want
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
B. Leaf - the organization will not rank and compare prospects
One judgement as to how the organization views its lower level prospects is how aggressively they have been promoted.
try Jays Journal
goto a blog called Jays Journal [http://jaysjournal.com/]. They do a really nice job of tracking the minor leagues and prospects.
YAY ERIC ARCE
EArce813 Eric Arce
My work in the GCL is done for now. Got promoted! Boarding plane. Excited! Thanks 2 God, my GCL Coaches and awesome teamates. #letsgo
good for him
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
also
@timdierkes timdierkes
Our numbers show that Kelly Johnson is a Type A free agent in the AL. Still not sure if that motivated the Jays to acquire him though.
by leaflover4ever on Aug 24, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if that's good.
I’m guessing Johnson will be more likely to accept arb as a Type A, decline as a B.
its good
we get him back for a reduced cost, probably cheaper than hill’s option for 2012, and he should be better in 2012 than in 2011, though thats not a guarantee. If he plays well, we can either extend him or let him go in FA as a type A.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
I don't know about that.
The crop for 2B in the off season is not all that great. Hill and Johnson are probably the best ones available.
Once over the hill, you pick up speed.
unless you count Reyes (or the current SS) shifting to second an option
Total Internet points: 10 000
He'll demand a huge contract anyway, and if you want him to learn/play another position you'll have to add extra to sweeten the pot.
No thanks. I don’t think 66.7% of the teams can afford that.
Once over the hill, you pick up speed.
by StreakyJays on Aug 24, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
1/3 is still 10 teams
thats a lot
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
or you shift over Escobar, who is already signed long-ish-term
if Reyes demands to play short (or wants more money to play second)
Total Internet points: 10 000
Hill's options are a moot point
There was absolutely no chance AA was going to exercise them anyway. And don’t be so sure about the reduced cost. Johnson will probably end up with a very modest raise.
its not a moot point
because it costs a million to decline his options.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
You're right, the deal saves the Jays a million for the buyout
But you’re said Johnson will probably be cheaper than Hill’s option for 2012. What I’m saying is you can’t compare Johnson’s salary next year to Hill’s option because there was absolutely no doubt AA would have declined them. Even if we had resigned Hill, it would have been as a Free Agent. So any comparison would be Johnson’s salary next year vs Hill’s FA contract plus $1 million.
Hill would likely have accepted arbitration
and if he didn’t, any re-signing (on a new contract) would cost $1M more than face value due to his buyouts
Total Internet points: 10 000
Do you believe there was any chance of Hill being offered arbitration?
AA wouldn’t have offered it and neither will Towers.
True, no pick with no arb offer
But there are cases where teams will forego the chances of a pick if they believe a player they do not want back will accept arbitration.
Actually there is a one possibility of arbitration being offered for Hill
and that is if there is an agreement that it be declined.
So I should have said Hill wouldn’t have and will not be offered arb if there is any chance whatsoever he would accept.
well his contract this year is 5 million
and even after a terrible season, most players don’t downgrade in arbitration, so he’s probably getting 5~5.5 million dollars next season if offered arbitration. add a million, and its about the same as KJ would get in arbi.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
and why do we want to do that again?
him and McCoy are redundant
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Especially with a 4 man bench that is common these days.
1 spot on the bench for a backup catcher, 1 spot for a 4th OF who can play all 3 OF positions, 1 spot for a middle infielder (at this point, McCoy), which leaves one bench spot. Ideally, you might want a RHB with some power who can play the corner IF/OF to balance the lefties who regularly start. That doesn’t leave room for Johnny Mac to come back. Also remember, he will be 37 years old. His bat was never good to begin with and the glove is in decline (it’s only natural at that age). I don’t see the Jays using a roster spot on a guy like that.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
well Teahen will almost definitely be there
since we’re paying his salary. McCoy is almost exactly the same player as McDonald, except he (presumably) makes less money. if McDonald wants to be a coach, great. but having him take up a roster spot makes little sense to me
Total Internet points: 10 000
So you've got Teahen, McCoy, backup catcher, 4th OF on the bench
Johnny Mac doesn’t fit in there at all. Unless you want McCoy to be the backup OF as well, which I don’t.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
Davis is under contract for next year
so he’s gotta be there. The bench seems set at Teahen, Davis, McCoy, Molina/Jeroloman/whoever.
The biggest issue I see is that there doesn’t seem to be room on the bench for Lind/E5 if we decide to go after Fielder. There are only 2 starting slots at 1B/DH, so one would have to be on the bench at any given time. So we have to: 1) not get Fielder 2) decline E5’s eminently reasonable $3.5M option 3) try to trade one of E5/Lind or 4) DFA Teahen.
I know AA likes flexibility, so maybe it’s good to have so many options, but I can’t seem to figure out which of these choices is best.
I really don't think AA is going after Fielder
That would fly in the face of just about everything else he’s been doing. So no worries about finding space on the bench for Lind, EE.
To every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand and wrong
He's been collecting
good, reasonably priced players.
fielder will not be.
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